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Quote (toby @ Dec. 27 2011,14:48) Gene is continually defining what he thinks an Angel/Spirit is, but Mikeboll never seems to say what he thinks one is – just keeps attacking Gene?
That's a little short-sighted for someone who admits he might have missed the posts where I defined what I think a spirit is. And it's interesting how you've decided that I am the one doing the attacking.
All I've done is try and try and try to get Gene to answer very simple scriptural questions DIRECTLY.Perhaps when you help Gene to realize that there is more than one meaning of “spirit” in the scriptures – one of which is “spirit being” – then we can move forward to discussing the MANY things “spirit” can mean.
But why would I continue to post the MANY meanings of “spirit” in the scriptures to someone who insists there is only ONE meaning?
Like I said: One thing at a time.
Quote (toby @ Dec. 27 2011,14:48) Well, I think I have already said that Spirits do not have bodies – and that is my stance.
What about Jesus? Does he have a body in heaven?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 28 2011,12:28) Quote (toby @ Dec. 27 2011,14:48) Gene is continually defining what he thinks an Angel/Spirit is, but Mikeboll never seems to say what he thinks one is – just keeps attacking Gene?
That's a little short-sighted for someone who admits he might have missed the posts where I defined what I think a spirit is. And it's interesting how you've decided that I am the one doing the attacking. All I've done is try and try and try to get Gene to answer very simple scriptural questions DIRECTLY.Perhaps when you help Gene to realize that there is more than one meaning of “spirit” in the scriptures – one of which is “spirit being” – then we can move forward to discussing the MANY things “spirit” can mean.
But why would I continue to post the MANY meanings of “spirit” in the scriptures to someone who insists there is only ONE meaning?
Like I said: One thing at a time.
MIke………..So please tell us what all these different meaning you have for spirit are, we would like to see them?I have said all along Spiirt are not Bodies but are what is (IN) Bodies, and Jesus said not me he was not a Spirit but was a Man that had a Body. We all are waiting to here what you many definitions of what Spirits ARE Mike.
peace and love………………………………….gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 28 2011,19:28) Quote (toby @ Dec. 27 2011,14:48) Gene is continually defining what he thinks an Angel/Spirit is, but Mikeboll never seems to say what he thinks one is – just keeps attacking Gene?
That's a little short-sighted for someone who admits he might have missed the posts where I defined what I think a spirit is. And it's interesting how you've decided that I am the one doing the attacking. All I've done is try and try and try to get Gene to answer very simple scriptural questions DIRECTLY.Perhaps when you help Gene to realize that there is more than one meaning of “spirit” in the scriptures – one of which is “spirit being” – then we can move forward to discussing the MANY things “spirit” can mean.
But why would I continue to post the MANY meanings of “spirit” in the scriptures to someone who insists there is only ONE meaning?
Like I said: One thing at a time.
Mikefor gene their is only water in a glass ,no water in the ocean
you need a glass to have water, right ?
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 26 2011,09:34) Hi Toby, Welcome to H-net.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
I forgot to say – Thank you Ed J.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 28 2011,12:28) Quote (toby @ Dec. 27 2011,14:48) Gene is continually defining what he thinks an Angel/Spirit is, but Mikeboll never seems to say what he thinks one is – just keeps attacking Gene?
That's a little short-sighted for someone who admits he might have missed the posts where I defined what I think a spirit is. And it's interesting how you've decided that I am the one doing the attacking. All I've done is try and try and try to get Gene to answer very simple scriptural questions DIRECTLY.Perhaps when you help Gene to realize that there is more than one meaning of “spirit” in the scriptures – one of which is “spirit being” – then we can move forward to discussing the MANY things “spirit” can mean.
But why would I continue to post the MANY meanings of “spirit” in the scriptures to someone who insists there is only ONE meaning?
Like I said: One thing at a time.
Hi Terrarica, thank you for your reply.Hi Mikeboll.
Sorry but it seems to me that you are trying to draw me over to your point of view but ignore that I said that I neither agree nor fully disagree with you and Gene. I am not trying to pursuade Gene because 425 pages and your persuasions have not changed him so what can I do?
I notice on some pages that you seem to always be wanting other people to answer your questions that are very direct and leave no room for their personal thoughts and ideas and you won't let go until they agree with you – that's what I meant when I said 'attacking Gene'. And I also apologised if I missed your definition of Spirit. Could you not have defined it for me so I know what your stance is – which post is it in?
And how did we suddenly arrive at Jesus in Heaven as Spirit from defining meanings of Spirit – it seems there is a specific agenda on the table – an agenda set by you. Does no one else have a say in all this?
But ok, Scriptures tells us quite clearly that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God is a Spirit Realm and nothing of a physical nature can exist there because physical entities can only be in one place at a time – Heaven is not a place of a fixed physical space or time. Time, in essence, only exists for the purposes of the limited Human mind – because we have a form that decays, even if it is replenished continually – the physical world decays, even if it is replenished continually, over time! But Heaven needs no Time because it never decays, being everlastingly sustained by the Power, the Spirit of God.
Jesus is certainly in Heaven and in the form of a Spirit. Are you going to say 'Aha, a Form – Must be a body, then'? No. A Form does not mean a Body. It can mean 'shape', yes, but the context does not warrant that meaning. The statement 'Jesus is in the form of a Spirit in Heaven' does not say, 'Jesus is in the Shape of a Spirit', but rather, 'His Form is that which is non-physical – a Spirit – invisible and not existent, nor constraint, by space or time'.
Now that should be easy enough to understand by even human minds as we also have spirit within us – and do we not say things like: 'My Spirit goes out to you' – is this a physical act? No. When Jesus says, 'I am with you always', is that Physically? No. When we die, does our Spirit go up to God to be put into little shoeboxes under God's bed? No! But yet God does 'store' our Spirit for the resurrection. How? By his remembrance. This is not physical but spiritual.
Now this draws the question: were the disciples seeing an intellect when they saw Jesus. No, of course not. What the disciples saw was Jesus as a physical person, a human being – he told them so, plainly, and proved it to them. So why did they think they were seeing a Spirit? This is no secret nor hard to find reason: a man suddenly appears in the midst of them in a locked room – Who wouldn't think it was a Spirit – in those times Spirit Angels sent by God were reported to have visited people and it is in the Jewish chronicles, the (Old) Testaments of which they knew well. However, not all appearances of Angel Spirits were to give good news and the disciples were afraid enough as it is from the threat of death from people around them – hence the locked doors.
But see here – A spirit is not constrained by time nor space so can appear (Manifest itself in physical form) anywhere it wills. Jesus, in Spirit form, manifested himself in physical form in the room. Easy. In like manner he manifested himself all over the place, miles apart, appearing to others in his last days on earth. The difference between Jesus and other Spirits is that Jesus has a recognisable physical body whereas other spirits are non-descript. Jesus' physical body will forever retain the holes of nails and the piercing in the side as a memorial to his great sacrifice, death and triumphant resurrection. In this regard, Jesus is the first of a unique set of persons who will have both permanent Spirit and Body that can be separated – without the body dying. (exactly what happens to the body when the Spirit leaves it is beyond anything written but it could be just dematerialised to energy and rematerialised exactly as required). Is this not the same way an Angel changes to a non-descript human form when it desires to speak to a human – and changes back when it returns to the Heavenly place?
Quote (toby @ Dec. 28 2011,16:04) And how did we suddenly arrive at Jesus in Heaven as Spirit from defining meanings of Spirit
Because you said spirits don't have bodies, and Jesus became a life-giving spirit. So, do you think Jesus has a body in heaven?Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 28 2011,11:43) My two cents, spirits do not have bodies, spiritual beings do. My opinion – Wm
Wm,Do you include angels and demons into “spiritual beings”? I call them “spirit beings”, although they are often simply called “spirits” in scripture. Just like we can either say “humans” or “human beings”.
Quote (toby @ Dec. 28 2011,16:04) So why did they think they were seeing a Spirit? This is no secret nor hard to find reason: a man suddenly appears in the midst of them in a locked room – Who wouldn't think it was a Spirit –
But WHAT exactly did they think they were seeing? An INVISIBLE, NON-MATERIAL, NON-PHYSICAL intellect or collective vibe?OR……………………………..did they think they were seeing a SPIRIT BEING?
It is clear to all of us that they thought they were seeing a SPIRIT BEING, right? Even Gene acknowledges this.
But here's the point I've typed my fingers to the bone trying to get Gene to realize:
If Luke used the word “spirit” to describe the SPIRIT BEING they thought they were seeing, then one of the MANY definitions of “spirit” in the scriptures ABSOLUTELY MUST BE “spirit BEING”.
Get it? If Luke wrote “spirit” and MEANT “spirit being”, then “spirit” in this verse MEANS “spirit being”.
Are we all on board with this FACT yet?
toby
Quote Is this not the same way an Angel changes to a non-descript human form when it desires to speak to a human – and changes back when it returns to the Heavenly place? why would it not be the same?
and the sacrifice of Christ IS HIS LIVE and to do that his blood was poured out of him and so he died his body without blood can it survive ??
I do not think so ,scriptures says the live is in the blood ,so if you loose your blood you are loosing your live,right ??
now sins Christ regain his live without the need of that blood so he can bring live to the body that he had ,no ??
now you talking about a form I say that the form or your container if you want is your body the outer shell fabric is irrelevant ,but the ability to be distinct of others is;
if their would not be a form to the spirit beings why give them a name different to all ;one name would then be sufficient ,right ??but they have positions,duties,active commitment ,ect
Pierre
Mike………..So produce the word “SPIRIT BEING” in any Scripture in the entire bible then. I still say Spirits are what is (IN) Beings they are not the Beings themselves. An angel is not a Spirit “BEING” he is a Being that has Spirit (IN) him. Where does it say we become “SPIRIT BEINGS” at in scripture, and don't try to force the text to say that where it say we will be “Spiritual” that is not saying we will be (A) SPIRIT “BEING”.
Toby…………..Have you ever considered the fact that Flesh and blood can not enter the kingdom of God was said because flesh and blood is not Spirit (cognate Intellect) so how could a physical being made of physical matter inter the Kingdom of God when the Kingdom of God is not physical it is spiritual and must be spiritual perceived. Remember when Jesus said for the Kingdom of God comes does not come with “observation” , why? because the Kingdom of God is not PHYSICAL it is Spiritual and you cant see spirit (cognate intellect), but that is not to say the kingdom of God can not be (IN) a Physical Being now is it?, For the Kingdom of God comes not with observation it is “WITH IN YOU” Jesus said. Was the you there Physical being yes they were and could the Kingdom of God be (IN) them Yes it could be.
So if the Kingdom of God is within you you are (IN) the KIN DOM of GOD by virtue of it being (IN) YOU> Spirit is not Physical nor does it appear Physical it is of a complete different substance then Matter , (IT) does not change (ITSELF) into physical Matter , It can take matter and make a body and (INDWELL) that BODY and Animate it. But itself is never a body of any kind. God is a Spirit and made his creation so he could (INDWELL) it and does (INDWELL) it. He was truly (IN) Jesus and is (IN) all who have Spirit of Life in them. He is the very life and sustainer of all HIS creation.
Toby…> no one here has ever produced ONE Scripture that say there are “SPIRIT BEINGS” and becasue the disciples “THOUGHT” they saw a SPIRIT does not by any means mean there exist such thing as Spirit Beings. Jesus plainly said they were in error. They try to use scripture where Paul say there are Celestial bodies and Terrestrial bodies and try to make that say the Celestial are Spirit Beings when in fact that simply means bodies in the heaves as the moon stars sun and etc. All Mike does is try to “FORCE THE TEXT” to meet HIS DOGMAS and false teachings, IMO.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 29 2011,08:16) Mike………..So produce the word “SPIRIT BEING” in any Scripture in the entire bible then.
Gene,Produce the phrase “HUMAN BEING” in any scripture in the Bible then.
I guess we don't exist either.
Mike………..so that is your answer to the question , well i guess we can say whatever we want to then, seen PROOF is NOT REQUIRED and we can Just change scripture to mean what we want it to Right?> Now at lest your begin honest about your so called “PROOFS” may this will help you to see your the problem with what you say scripture is saying when in fact it is not saying that at all , but that makes no difference to you becasue you just FORCE the TEXT to SAY it anyway. Mike i am HUMAN and am a BEING, By definition of the very words themselves, but none of that justifies you own interruptions of what scripture is saying now does it. Like i told you a long time ago it is impossible to corner a snake in a brier patch. IMO
Mike i am not trying to prove I am a human being now am i , if i were i would used sound reasoning and produce direct meanings to back it up. You on the other hand are trying to make it a FACT there are SPIRIT “BEINGS” So produce ONE SCRIPTURE that say that , and quite dodging the question, Perhaps it might help you if you understood what a “BEING” is. A spirit is not a Being it is what is (IN) a Being. IMO
peace and love……………………………………………………….gene
No Gene,
The FACT of the matter is that there exist HUMAN BEINGS, although no scripture says the phrase “HUMAN BEINGS”.
So why would you try to disprove the existence of SPIRIT BEINGS by using the argument “No scripture says the phrase 'SPIRIT BEINGS' ” ?
Gene, instead of diverting away from my point, let me work through it with Toby. Maybe you will learn better from listening instead of talking.
Shmmer…………Good to see your back sis. You do have a Point , both may be called a faithful witness. Jesus was Faithful to GOD and GOD is always faithful to his WORD. Good point sis.
Shimmer tell me do you still have your site going i tried to find it but was unable to.
peace and love to you and yours………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 30 2011,05:29) Shmmer…………Good to see your back sis. You do have a Point , both may be called a faithful witness. Jesus was Faithful to GOD and GOD is always faithful to his WORD. Good point sis. Shimmer tell me do you still have your site going i tried to find it but was unable to.
peace and love to you and yours………………………………………..gene
Hi Gene.I couldn't sleep at all, and just as I finally fell asleep about 4/5am, those words were in my head, and I got up and posted them. It was odd because I usually sleep fine. And I wasn't thinking about anything at all like that. But I don't know.
Gene, my site, I'll post it to you, and anyone else who wants to know send me a message. I won't advertise it here due to respect. But it's a new one, not the old.
Peace and love to you and yours too Gene.
All I'm not staying. Shimmer doesn't exist here anymore. I don't know what those words meant about the Spirit and the Body of Jesus, or even if it has anything to do with Revelations (I just put Revelations there because it's what I thought of when typing.
Take care, bye-bye.
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