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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 23 2011,10:37) I have asked him if the disciples thought they were seeing “an intellect inside someone” when they saw the raised Jesus, and thought they had seen a “spirit”. But conversations with Gene, as you will soon discover, circle round and round without any real answers to the scriptural questions we ask him. He will continue to parrot the same thing over and over, as if you didn't just scriptural refute what he said.
I pray that God guide you and grant you patience, Wakeup. It is a big hill that you have decided to climb. I believe that getting to the top is important, and my spirit was willing. My flesh, on the other hand, finally became so weak that I gave up.
peace,
mike
Mike…….You are lying , You ask me if the disciples had seen a spirit when they saw the resined Jesus and thought they had seen a Spirit, and I gave you a complete answer to that question.Then you say but conversation with Gene goes round and round as you soon will discoverer without any real answer , that is a lie. I have quoted more scripture here then you ever have to back up what i say. And if there is any Parrot here it is you not I.
Your trash talk is you and who you stand for , that is what is for sure.
Then you say it a big hill that you have decided to climb. I believe that getting to the top is important, and my spirit was willing . My Flesh, on the other hand, finally became so weak that i gave up.
Play that card to some one who believes you i sure do not.
Trying to deceive people to think I am unwilling to learn is another LIE of YOURS because i will not Learn or agree with your false teaching does not mean i will not learn , it is just i chose to learn from those who are not themselves decieved as your are . YOU have never produced any PROOF of what you claim. I have learned from Past People on this site but you just are not one of them, Except that is how to insult people and ridicule them you are good at that it appears. IMO
peace and love……………………………………..gene
Okay Gene,
Let's put your words to the test. Maybe Wakeup will be watching, so be on your best behavior, okay?
Gene, you have INSISTED that there is only ONE meaning of “spirit” in the whole scriptures. You have insisted that “spirit” ALWAYS means “the intellect inside someone”.
Luke 24:37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a SPIRIT.
Gene, did the disciples think they were seeing an intellect inside someone? YES or NO?
Mike has anyone ever seen a Spirit in Scripture if so then present it , instead of saying what People “THINK” they saw. Your false assumption is you think because a person “THINKS” Something that means it EXISTS or is so.. Produce proof not suppositions, we are after facts not fiction HERE. When was the last time you saw a Spirit MIKE, so what makes you think the Disciples saw one or could see one.
And by the way i have said Spirit is what produces a type of Intellect in a person, I generalize Spirit as intellect because that is what it produces in a person. Spirit is not a being it is what is (IN) a Being. Just that simple nothing complicated about it , complication is the result of giving it all kinds of meanings as you say it has, and this is what causes confusion in all religions. It stems from pagan thought.
peace an love……………………………………………….gene
Are you paying attention, Wakeup?
This is how it goes with Gene…….round and round and round. I've asked him a simple YES or NO question, but where is my answer?
He NEVER actually ANSWERS a question. Instead, he just posts the same old tired blather over and over.
(Btw, I've asked Gene this question earlier on this thread. I spent weeks just trying to get a straight answer to the question. I still have not gotten one, as you can see.)
Yep Gene, you are a very high hill to climb.
Mike………….You question proves nothing it simply does not matter what they “think” they SAW it was NOT a SPIRIT PERIOD!. Because you can't see Spirit at all> You want to build a case on a fallacy by trying to get me to admit the disciples (THOUGHT) they seen a Spirit, So what if they (THOUGHT) they did does that have anything to do with there “DOES” Exist SPIRITS you can SEE> YOU question is Mute it has no bearing on anything you are trying to prove. Wakeup yourself Man.
This is like me asking you the person though he saw a alien being, Yes or no, Just answer the question so if you say Yes then i would say see then there does exist aliens. Can't you see who stupid that is?> You can't build a case on suppositions build it on FACTS . Did the DISCIPLES “SEE” a SPIRIT. NO they DID NOT see a SPIRIT nor have you or anyone else for that matter, if you or anyone else has seen a Spirit then produce the PROOF, and i will look at that. But not stupid suppositions of all kinds.
I get frustrated with you continuing trying to tare down people by setting them up with stupid questions and then telling other look he just goes around and around not answering me stupid questions, But tanks be to God anyone with half a brain can see through them and I believe Wakeup can also. At least i hope so.
peace and love…………………………………………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 25 2011,09:38) Mike………….You question proves nothing it simply does not matter what they “think” they SAW it was NOT a SPIRIT PERIOD!.
You're wrong, Gene.My question WILL prove something if you ever become man enough to actually ANSWER it. Here it is again:
Gene, in Luke 24:37, did the disciples think they were seeing an intellect inside someone? YES or NO?
MIke …… NO…….. YOU can't see intellect nor can you see Spirit either. They “THOUGHT” They had see a SPIRIT. BUT They did not see that either, So what is your POINT? You can't use that to prove any Spirit is seen, now can you ? no matter what they “THOUGHT” they had seen it certainly was NOT a SPIRIT that is OBVIOUS by the verse it self. So what does you question “PROVE” MIKE?
peace and love………………………………………….gene
Hi Gene. Perhaps this might help to clarify things:
“Do not be afraid, it is I, Jesus. Touch me and see that I am not 'a disembodied intellect' (a Spirit) , for a 'disembodied intellect' (a Spirit) does not have flesh and blood (a Body) as you can plainly see that I have.”
Quote (toby @ Dec. 26 2011,08:05) Hi Gene. Perhaps this might help to clarify things: “Do not be afraid, it is I, Jesus. Touch me and see that I am not 'a disembodied intellect' (a Spirit) , for a 'disembodied intellect' (a Spirit) does not have flesh and blood (a Body) as you can plainly see that I have.”
Toby……….Right on brother.peace and love to you and yours……………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 25 2011,12:59) MIke …… NO…….. YOU can't see intellect nor can you see Spirit either. They “THOUGHT” They had see a SPIRIT. BUT They did not see that either, So what is your POINT? You can't use that to prove any Spirit is seen, now can you ? no matter what they “THOUGHT” they had seen it certainly was NOT a SPIRIT that is OBVIOUS by the verse it self. So what does you question “PROVE” MIKE? peace and love………………………………………….gene
Okay Gene……………once again,If they “THOUGHT” they were seeing a spirit BEING, and they DIDN'T think they were seeing an “intellect inside someone”, then the word “spirit” that Luke used in this case cannot POSSIBLY mean “intellect inside someone”.
Are you finally able to understand this? If Luke said they thought they saw a “SPIRIT”, and “spirit” ALWAYS means “intellect inside someone”, then Luke HAD TO BE SAYING that they thought they had seen an “intellect inside someone”.
If, on the other hand, Luke was saying that they thought they had seen a SPIRIT BEING, then in this verse, the word “spirit” does NOT mean “intellect inside someone”, but “spirit BEING”.
Do you see, Gene? It doesn't matter for this discussion whether or not spirit beings exist. It doesn't matter for this discussion whether or not the disciples were wrong. All that matters is Luke used the word “spirit” to describe what the disciples thought they were seeing.
So if, as you agree, they WEREN'T thinking they saw an “intellect inside someone”, then the word “spirit” that Luke used cannot MEAN “intellect inside someone” in this verse. Understand?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 27 2011,05:15) Toby, perhaps you can help Gene to see what I'm saying.
Hi Mikeboll64.I can't say i entirely agree with what Gene is saying – nor entirely with what you are saying – because there seems to be a history with you two and some things of Spiritual and Scriptural matters have gone astray.
Firstly, no one can see a Spirit with human eyes. The Spirit must manifest itself before it can be seen. Therefore you are both rightT – and both wrong – but in different ways.
Gene is right that the Spirit is the intellect in a being: the intellect in the manifested Spirit; the Spirit inside the Body of a Human, Animal, Fish, or Bird (viz: All living things).
Then again, you are right that the Spirit, together with the Body, make a Being: God made the Body of the first Human but it was not until He blew the Spirit of Life (Breath, Pheumana) into the body that it became a Living Soul – a Living Person, a Living Being.
Many times Humans are said to have seen Spirits. They have all but twice turned out to be Angels sent by God. The twice mentioned, was a Human person – Jesus. Once walking on the water, and the other in the locked room.
At no time was anyone ever said to have seen a Wicked Spirit…….(Why not?). However, everyone seeing a Spirit, was afraid, until the Spirit said 'Do not be afraid'.Many times that a Spirit appeared to man it was to direct them to do or say something or to tell them off so Jesus was anxious to allay the fears of the Disciples that he was not such a Spirit but the same Human Person they knew and loved.
Gene,
Before i can address your thoughts on the matter, What do you believe Angels are? Who are the 'Messengers of God'?Are they Spirits without Bodies – or just 'free floating intellects' or……(you define it).
tobi
Quote Firstly, no one can see a Spirit with human eyes. The Spirit must manifest itself before it can be seen. Therefore you are both rightT – and both wrong – but in different ways. first I believe you did not really understand what is going on ;so let me tell you ;
the original question was does spirit beings have a body;(God,Angels,)so the division is between those who says NO they do not have body s and the one s who says they do have a form of body not in flesh and bones but a type of body that make them distinct from each other ,
and from there this took many directions,
we tried to explain to Gene ;who believe s that like US our inside spirit has a body and looks like it need s one,all other spirits are not beings because they need a body,and on the other end we try to explain that ;scriptures says that God has a soul ,and yet his spirit so he must be different in form than his creation and specifically his angels ,scriptures also depict angels as individuals and yet spirit beings ,
this is to fill you in in a nut shell,
Pierre
Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 15 2010,07:25) Mike, does God have a body ? Of course God doesnt have a body. God is spirit. Jesus has a body (And as I said I believe Jesus also has wings) But God ? A body ? NO. See, did you believe God had a body before, or is this just because you were 'led astray' on the forum ?
Hi Shimmer.God has shown Moses his Back part,and covered moses eyes with his HANDS.
wakeup.
Quote (toby @ Dec. 26 2011,17:18) Hi Mikeboll64. I can't say i entirely agree with what Gene is saying – nor entirely with what you are saying
One thing at a time, toby. Is there more than one meaning to the word “spirit” in scripture?Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 27 2011,13:19) tobi Quote Firstly, no one can see a Spirit with human eyes. The Spirit must manifest itself before it can be seen. Therefore you are both rightT – and both wrong – but in different ways. first I believe you did not really understand what is going on ;so let me tell you ;
the original question was does spirit beings have a body;(God,Angels,)so the division is between those who says NO they do not have body s and the one s who says they do have a form of body not in flesh and bones but a type of body that make them distinct from each other ,
and from there this took many directions,
we tried to explain to Gene ;who believe s that like US our inside spirit has a body and looks like it need s one,all other spirits are not beings because they need a body,and on the other end we try to explain that ;scriptures says that God has a soul ,and yet his spirit so he must be different in form than his creation and specifically his angels ,scriptures also depict angels as individuals and yet spirit beings ,
this is to fill you in in a nut shell,
Pierre
Hi Terraricca.Thanks for the update.
It was rather hard following exactly what was going on – because the two seem to be going around and around with the same thing. Well, I think I have already said that Spirits do not have bodies – and that is my stance. A body, to me, is a form made up of physical elements. The universe and everything in it is made up of physical elements. This is what God created – a physical bodied world, different from the Spirit world. Else why did He do it, if it was just the same as that which already existed?
What are Angels? Angels are not physical beings. They are Spirit beings. The definition of Angel is 'Spirit Messenger of God'. Note that it says 'Spirit Messenger', because a messenger of God could also be Human and would not be called 'an Angel'. The Prophets were 'Messengers of God' – do we call them 'Angels'? No!
I can see where there is much contention then, between what Mikeboll says and what Gene thinks. One thing I haven't seen so far, is what Mikeboll thinks a Spirit is. Gene is continually defining what he thinks an Angel/Spirit is, but Mikeboll never seems to say what he thinks one is – just keeps attacking Gene?
If the question has not already been answered, then it needs to be re-stated and expanded on – Do Spirits have Bodies? And if so, what form do they take? And prove it from Scriptures!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 28 2011,03:10) Quote (toby @ Dec. 26 2011,17:18) Hi Mikeboll64. I can't say i entirely agree with what Gene is saying – nor entirely with what you are saying
One thing at a time, toby. Is there more than one meaning to the word “spirit” in scripture?
Hi Mikeboll.There are two meanings to Spirit in Scriptures. One is the Intellect, which is a power and a force (Knowledge is Power). The second is vigour, sense of energy, collective vibe!
Angels/Messengers, whether good or bad, Exist as intellectual forces. They provide the active energy that shapes the universe and everything in it under the guidance of God Almighty. They are not bodied entities. They are not restricted to any one place at any time as a bodied entity has to be (a bodied entity being a collection of fixed energy forces in one place making it visible much like – analogically speaking – water is a collection of invisible molecules that only become visible when brought together in one general place). Angel Spirits can form a visible body of any shape in the physical universe – mostly in the form of a human being – but see that they can be like the wind, fire, water. Any physical body. They take 'the form' of a human to best relate to their target audience – earthly human beings (logically).
The Spirit of Man, the Spirit in Man, is a permanent Spirit that energises and animates the body, is the Will of the person. See that the body is nothing, dead, without the Spirit but that Spirit cannot die but goes back to God Almighty (Energy cannot be created nor destroyed but only changed! E=MC^2).
Many Angels were in or near the presence of God Almighty: this means that they had a huge amount of intellect: energy and force. Those that fell were stripped of a great deal of their energy so much so that they can only influence mankind in a base manner- witness that the madman in the cave, even though possessed by a legion of fallen Spirits, could only make the man a little stronger than most normal human men. Whereas, a normal Angel could empower a human to do anything but would not do so unless ordered to do so by God Almighty.
Sorry Mikeboll, got carried away a little. Is this enough for you? Now, what I would like to know is what you think a Spirit is. Gene has always been open about what he thinks, but I don't recall reading what you think. Sorry if I missed it, one can only read back so far in these threads.
Thank you.
Quote (toby @ Dec. 28 2011,14:48) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 27 2011,13:19) tobi Quote Firstly, no one can see a Spirit with human eyes. The Spirit must manifest itself before it can be seen. Therefore you are both rightT – and both wrong – but in different ways. first I believe you did not really understand what is going on ;so let me tell you ;
the original question was does spirit beings have a body;(God,Angels,)so the division is between those who says NO they do not have body s and the one s who says they do have a form of body not in flesh and bones but a type of body that make them distinct from each other ,
and from there this took many directions,
we tried to explain to Gene ;who believe s that like US our inside spirit has a body and looks like it need s one,all other spirits are not beings because they need a body,and on the other end we try to explain that ;scriptures says that God has a soul ,and yet his spirit so he must be different in form than his creation and specifically his angels ,scriptures also depict angels as individuals and yet spirit beings ,
this is to fill you in in a nut shell,
Pierre
Hi Terraricca.Thanks for the update.
It was rather hard following exactly what was going on – because the two seem to be going around and around with the same thing. Well, I think I have already said that Spirits do not have bodies – and that is my stance. A body, to me, is a form made up of physical elements. The universe and everything in it is made up of physical elements. This is what God created – a physical bodied world, different from the Spirit world. Else why did He do it, if it was just the same as that which already existed?
What are Angels? Angels are not physical beings. They are Spirit beings. The definition of Angel is 'Spirit Messenger of God'. Note that it says 'Spirit Messenger', because a messenger of God could also be Human and would not be called 'an Angel'. The Prophets were 'Messengers of God' – do we call them 'Angels'? No!
I can see where there is much contention then, between what Mikeboll says and what Gene thinks. One thing I haven't seen so far, is what Mikeboll thinks a Spirit is. Gene is continually defining what he thinks an Angel/Spirit is, but Mikeboll never seems to say what he thinks one is – just keeps attacking Gene?
If the question has not already been answered, then it needs to be re-stated and expanded on – Do Spirits have Bodies? And if so, what form do they take? And prove it from Scriptures!
tobyof cause your answer is totally related to the earth, and God does not reside on earth ,he is a spirit being ,and so we do not know what form of a body they may or may not have ,but what is certain is that they are all distinct from each other,and have a soul,this would tell us that they are individuals in their own square so to speak ,and so must have limits to their being.
this is what we try to say ,if we call this a body fine,if we called it a form ,fine ,we do not know what it takes to live out there,
but what scriptures says is that they are distinct beings ,I mean God, the Son,the angels,
just as we are on earth ,man,animals ,fish,birds, ect;;;
even the stars are all separated units
Pierre
Quote (toby @ Dec. 27 2011,14:58) Hi Mikeboll. There are two meanings to Spirit in Scriptures. One is the Intellect, which is a power and a force (Knowledge is Power). The second is vigour, sense of energy, collective vibe!
And which one of those two things do you suppose the disciples thought they were seeing when they saw the raised Jesus and thought they were seeing a “spirit”?Did they think they were seeing an intellect? Or did they think they were seeing a collective vibe?
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