Do spirits have bodies?

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 03 2011,08:33)

the Original Testament only used shows a LIVING Soul as a Complete human Being

That is an inaccurate statement, Gene. In fact, in the “Soul” thread, I posted a scripture that spoke of a woman dying after childbirth. And it said her soul escaped from her. Gene, who was the “her” that the soul left?

But this is not the “Soul” thread. I don't post in the “Soul” thread anymore because I got tired of showing some of you the same scriptures over and over that showed a DIFFERENCE between “soul”, “spirit” and “body”.

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 03 2011,08:33)

you say Paul used two or three different words right? fact is the trinitarian translators used two or thee different words to push their still alive after you die doctrine recieved from Greek mythology,

So you are saying that you don't believe the words of the NT because the writers were influenced by Greek mythology?

That is your choice, Gene. I believe the words of both the Old and the New Testaments. I believe it when John speaks of the souls of those who were killed for the gospel in Revelation. I believe it when John says they were crying out to God, “How long?”

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 03 2011,08:33)

Now who should we believe the Original Testament or the Greek translated one translated by Trinitarians and Preexistences forcing the truth to meet their dogmas.

The Greek Testament wasn't written by Trinitarians, Gene. It was written by disciples of Jesus. And although the Trinitarians have altered many of the translations to slant the scriptures toward some Trinity Godhead, the words of the Greek writers are still there for us to read for ourselves. It wasn't any Trinitarian that made Paul say “pnuema”, “psuche” and “soma” in 1 Thessalonians 5:23. It wasn't a Trinitarian that made Jesus tell us not to fear those who could only kill the body, but not the soul.

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 03 2011,08:33)

Now Mike what exactly are you saying Jesus (IS) you are saying He is a PREEXISTENT “BEING” of SOME KIND, and your other fellow Trinitarians Preach a PREEXISTENT JESUS as a GOD BEING , but fact is both Teach a Different Jesus then Scripture does.

That's also inaccurate, Gene. I teach EXACTLY the Jesus that Jesus taught. It was Jesus who said, “I came down from heaven”. It was Jesus who taught he had glory alongside God before the earth was formed. It was Jesus who said the only one who had seen the Father is the one who came from the Father. It was Jesus who said he was not only the Branch of David, but also the Root. It was Jesus who taught the Pharisees that he couldn't have been ONLY an offspring of David, or David would have never called him “my Lord”.

I thought that you, I, and Pierre had a new agreement. I thought we were going to discuss scriptures without the put-downs and insults and smilies. Yet here you are, breaking your own words of peace by linking me with my “fellow Trinitarians”, when you know for a fact I don't believe in a Trinity Godhead. What gives?

Gene, here is the bottom line of your post:

NT scriptures speak of a difference between “soul”, “spirit”, and “body”. I don't want to believe that, so I'm going to disregard those particular NT scriptures by saying the writers were influenced by Greek mythology and Trinitarianism.

You are free to believe whatever scriptures you want to believe, Gene. As for me, I will believe them all.

December 3, 2011 at 4:33 pm#266675

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 03 2011,13:51)

Gene, “nephesh” isn't in the NT because it is a Hebrew word, not a Greek one. But there is one Greek word for “spirit” – “pnuema”. And there is a DIFFERENT Greek word for “soul” – “psuche”. And there is yet a DIFFERENT Greek word for “body” – “soma”. In the following scripture, you can see that Paul mentions ALL THREE things – not just ONE thing:

1 Thessalonians 5:23
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Believe the scriptures or don't. The choice is yours, Gene.

Paul uses THREE different Greek words to convey THREE different things.

Mike………..Look up the word used there for “body”, and you will find it means the whole person, His Spirit and Soul. That scripture does not separate man into three parts as you suppose it does.

Mike do you have E-sword on you computer if not it could be a great help to you, Because under the KJV it has every word with a number and you can easily look them up by simply clicking on them.

peace and love…………………………………….. gene

December 3, 2011 at 5:18 pm#266687

Blocked

Gene,

I don't use E-sword, but I use biblos.com and NETNotes every day. In fact, I look into the Greek or Hebrew words and their various definitions before I make my decision about what a particular scripture is teaching.

I'm glad you are using a similar source so you can learn beyond the way the translators rendered the scriptures.

But none of that changes the fact that Paul specifically mentioned “spirit, soul AND body” in 1 Thess. He wouldn't have listed them individually like that unless they WERE individual things.

December 4, 2011 at 2:22 pm#266808

Participant

Mike……….. They are all parts of our existence, If i said, transmission , lights and car were all good that does not mean i am saying there are three separate parts of the Car i am referring to now does it? Transmission and lights are Parts of ONE CAR> Paul was simply saying our whole being which is and Includes our Bodies. also notice He says Spirit which is a Part of our existence and then says Soul (AND) Body, that is the other part of our existence. A Soul which includes a BODY, and Spirit (IN) that Soul that has a BODY. IMO

peace and love…………………………………………………………gene

December 4, 2011 at 3:01 pm#266810

Blocked

I disagree Gene. I don't think any mechanic would tell the owner picking up their car after repair, “I fixed the lights, the transmission, and the car”.

“Car” would encompass the other two things, so he would either say, “I fixed the lights and the transmission”; or he would say, “I fixed the car” – as in “everything on the car that was broke”.

When listing various parts of the whole, one does not list the whole as if it was but one of those parts.

peace,
mike

December 5, 2011 at 2:32 pm#266869

Participant

Mike…………Fact is they are all part of ONE CAR, and if he fixed the transmission and lights he fixed the Car them.

Mike, fact is a Soul is a Complete being and it can and does “die” as soon as you stop breathing, it light out, I have posted the scriptures that show this is completely true , “there is no work, no wisdom, no thoughts,” no more existence after death. The only thing left is the Spirit that goes back to God who gave (IT)> Man ceases to be a “LIVING SOUL” after he dies. We must attain to a Resurrection that will witness the redemption of OUR BODIES and Our Spirit added back into it, in order to LIVE again Just as Jesus DID, absolutely no difference then him. IMO

peace and love…………………………………………………………….gene

December 5, 2011 at 6:43 pm#266872

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 06 2011,07:32)

Mike…………Fact is they are all part of ONE CAR, and if he fixed the transmission and lights he fixed the Car them.

peace and love…………………………………………………………….gene

gene

Lk 20:35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage,
Lk 20:36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.

Jn 11:24 Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
Jn 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;

Ac 2:31 Seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay.

wich one are you agreeing with ??Ac 23:8 (The Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, and that there are neither angels nor spirits, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all.)

now gess how many of the Sadducees became christian ?? but yet call themself to believe in God ,wich one ??

Pierre

December 5, 2011 at 8:53 pm#266875

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 05 2011,07:32)

Mike…………Fact is they are all part of ONE CAR, and if he fixed the transmission and lights he fixed the Car them.

Yes Gene, IF those were the only two things broken on the car, then he fixed the car. But you are missing my point. The mechanic would either say, “I fixed the car”, or he would say, “I fixed the transmission and the lights”. He would not say, “I fixed the transmission, the lights, AND THE CAR”.

Do you understand this Gene? It's okay if you don't, because I many times get the feeling that you don't really have a solid grasp on English grammar and language skills. That is not an insult, but an observation. Suffice to say, one does not link the whole with the individual parts using the word “and”.

The car was in excellent shape except for the transmission, so the owner took it to the shop. Two days later, the shop called and said:

1. Your transmission is fixed.
2. Your car is fixed.
3. Your transmission AND your car are fixed.

#1 and #2 are acceptable English, Gene. #3 is not because “car” already encompasses “transmission”.

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 05 2011,07:32)

Mike, fact is a Soul is a Complete being and it can and does “die” as soon as you stop breathing………

The only thing left is the Spirit that goes back to God who gave (IT)>

So you acknowledge that a person's SPIRIT is something other than their soul?

December 8, 2011 at 3:05 pm#267200

Participant

Mike…………I do acknowledge SPIRIT is different from A LIVING SOUL, Because SPIRIT is what is (IN) a LIVING SOUL or a LIVING BODY of a man or animals. Just as it say so dies one so dies the other So if we say Man has a separate Soul then so does Animals right so where does these animal souls go when they dies seeing they are the same they both are LIVING SOULS according to scripture.

peace and love……………………………………………………..gene

December 8, 2011 at 10:21 pm#267209

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 09 2011,08:05)

peace and love……………………………………………………..gene

gene

killing nine scriptures to bring to live one scripture is not the way to claim truth in Gods word,

Pierre

December 8, 2011 at 11:08 pm#267215

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 08 2011,08:05)

Mike…………I do acknowledge SPIRIT is different from A LIVING SOUL…………………

What did God breathe into Adam after forming him from the dust, Gene? Adam became a living soul only AFTER God breathed His spirit of life into him.

So it seems to me that you are willing to separate the SPIRIT from the “living soul”, but not the body. Is that correct?

December 9, 2011 at 2:47 am#267243

Participant

MIke………..No that is not correct, becasue the Spirit breath into the body sustains the life of the Body, and when the bodies dies it leaves and returns back to God alone with all Spirits that at are (IN) the body. There exist only two things composing a Living Being , a Body and Spirit, and these constitute a LIVING SOUL> Mike your very Blood has living Spirit working in it to keep you alive, and if that blood is completely lost, your body will die, it not just about the blood it's what is working (IN) the Blood, those cells are controlled by Spirit (Intellect) and maintain our bodies.and control cells that carry oxygen throughout our bodies. There is (INTELLECT) working (IN) our bodies to Keep us alive, and that is Spirit also at work in our bodies.

There is only two things that compose a “LIVING SOUL” and that is a BODY with SPIRIT (IN) it. IMO

peace and love…………………………………………………………………………..

.gene

December 9, 2011 at 5:16 am#267246

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 09 2011,19:47)

There is only two things that compose a “LIVING SOUL” and that is a BODY with SPIRIT (IN) it. IMO

peace and love…………………………………………………………………………..

.gene

gene

even God has a soul;
Lev;26;11 And I will set my tabernacle among you, and my soul shall not abhor you; 12 and I will walk among you, and be your God,

look what it says about the soul and what the soul can do and not do ,the flesh stands for nothing ,

LEV 26:43 ‘ For the land will be abandoned by them, and will make up for its sabbaths while it is made desolate without them. They, meanwhile, will be making amends for their iniquity, because they rejected My ordinances and their soul abhorred My statutes.
DT 4:9 “Only give heed to yourself and keep your soul diligently, so that you do not forget the things which your eyes have seen and they do not depart from your heart

DT 13:3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

MT 16:26 “For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?

LK 12:19 ‘And I will say to my soul, “Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years to come; take your ease, eat, drink and be merry.”’
LK 12:20 “But God said to him, ‘ You fool! This very night your soul is required of you; and now who will own what you have prepared?’

you see Gene you can do many things with your soul ,the flesh counts for nothing only to do thing you like and you want good or bad,

Pierre

December 9, 2011 at 2:54 pm#267281

Participant

Pierre………..All you posted is referencing the Complete being which is a Body and Spirit that is (IN) it. None of what you posted show where a body and Spirit are different from a “LIVING SOUL”. NOT EVEN ONE POST OF YOUR SHOW ANY DIFFERENCE. Forcing text to try to get them to say what in fact they do not say is a big problem here Pierre. Don't take that personal that just is a fact and many do that. I again will ask a question , please show ONE scripture that (SPECIFICALLY) says a BODY, SPIRIT, and SOUL are three different things, or a scripture that say a body and Spirit are (DIFFERENT) then a SOUL. JUST ONE SPECIFIC scripture Pierre will do.

peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………………………………….
…….gene

December 9, 2011 at 5:48 pm#267286

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 10 2011,07:54)

peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………………………………….

…….gene

gene

Lev;26;11 And I will set my tabernacle among you, and my soul shall not abhor you; 12 and I will walk among you, and be your God,

God his spirit and he has a SOULso where is his body???

Pierre

December 9, 2011 at 9:09 pm#267298

Blocked

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 09 2011,10:48)

God is spirit, and he has a SOUL, so where is his body???

Uh-oh Gene. Now what?

December 10, 2011 at 4:19 pm#267366

Participant

Uh-oh Mike…………..That was YAHWEH or the LORD OUR GOD Speaking, He is a living SOUL, but the word GOD Is Not a LIVING Soul it is Elohim (SPIRITS) a uni-plural word, Meaning a unity of more then one Spirit or(INTELLECTS) . If Spirit and Soul means the same thing then why even separate them at all. Soul there is used in a sense as the complete being (YAHWEH). a LIVING SOUL is a representation of a Complete Being even a man or animal or even the LORD YAHWEH who is our GOD.

The LORD YAHWEH is “OUR” GOD, another word He YAHWEH has POWERS through his seven spirits he send out into all the earth with power to execute his (YAHWEH'S) WILL on all creation.

God is not a Being GOD is a SPIRIT Just as Jesus said (IT) was. Uh-oh Mike. what do you say about that and your co-hart also. Trying to divide scripture to meet you dogmas by omitting parts of the contexts is what you people seem to do the best it appears. Any one who read the complete context would have seen it is talking about YAHWEH our GOD not about the word GOD. We are supposed to Properly divide the word of GOD not improperly. IMO

peace and love………………………………………………………….gene

December 10, 2011 at 4:22 pm#267368

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 10 2011,03:48)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 10 2011,07:54)

peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………………………………….

…….gene

gene

Lev;26;11 And I will set my tabernacle among you, and my soul shall not abhor you; 12 and I will walk among you, and be your God,

God his spirit and he has a SOULso where is his body???

Pierre

Terricca………….Thanks for eliminating the other scriptures in your post, but is you also check out this post you will see it is talking not about the word GOD but about YAHWEH the LORD.

peace and love Pierre…………………………………gene

December 10, 2011 at 4:30 pm#267370

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 10 2011,09:19)

That was YAHWEH or the LORD OUR GOD Speaking, He is a living SOUL

Then by your own definition, Yahweh must be comprised of a body and a spirit, right? Because those are the two things you say make up a “soul”.

December 11, 2011 at 4:59 pm#267488