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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 24 2011,12:36) Terricca………..God does not have a Body of his own His creation is the Body he lives in and through, Jesus said God is a Spirit, no scripture shows Spirit as having it's own Bodies. Scripture show Spirits are what is (IN) Bodies.IMO peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………gene
genego back and read this topic again,God is spirit and so are all the angels and Christ are they all bundled up in God
is this the non sense that is God ???that you preach ?
what is in a body ,are the guts ,the heart ,the lungs,and boon structure,the brain ,the eyes ect.
the spirit soul is given to make it work,
but it seems you can not understand what spirit is and how it is to understand all the different meanings of spirit ,
so pray you needed and ask to open your heart in Christ
Pierre
Terricca…………Becasue God makes His angels Spirits and put them (IN) them does not mean they are spirit beings.without bodies as you seem to think Jesus is not a Spirit being as He himself said he was Not, but he had flesh and bone. God is the ONLY SPIRTI Being. IMO
Peace and love…………………………………………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 25 2011,09:29) Terricca…………Becasue God makes His angels Spirits and put them (IN) them does not mean they are spirit beings.without bodies as you seem to think Jesus is not a Spirit being as He himself said he was Not, but he had flesh and bone. God is the ONLY SPIRTI Being. IMO Peace and love…………………………………………………………….gene
gene
;;;;God is the ONLY SPIRTI Being. IMO;;;;;
this is new truth????
Terricca…………God is the (SOURCE) of all Spirits is what i meant to say, not that he is the ONLY Spirit being, Both Good and Evil Spirit (INTELLECTS) GOD Has created then all. Sorry for the screw up.
peace and love……………………………………………………gene
To all………………The biggest problem in religion most do not understand simple word , Like these
Spirits……………. Some think it means a BODY or Person,when it Means simply put (INTELLECTS) of the mind.
Heaven………….Some think it means a physical place when it also could mean a High Position of some kind.
Faith……………. Some think it mean what ever you believe in without and tangible evidence of any kind.
Fire………………Some think it means literal fire when it means intense Judgements
Hell……………… Some think it means Gehenna or hell fires.
spiritual………….Some think it means an invisible BODY of some kind, when it simply means the way a person thinks.
This is just the tip of the ice burg of things that are falsely understood Here as well as in the rest of Christianity. Every kind of false concept imaginably are created by simply misunderstand simple word and what they actually mean. IMO
But with God's help we will all some day fully understand them properly.
peace and love to you all………………………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 26 2011,09:03) Terricca…………God is the (SOURCE) of all Spirits is what i meant to say, not that he is the ONLY Spirit being, Both Good and Evil Spirit (INTELLECTS) GOD Has created then all. Sorry for the screw up. peace and love……………………………………………………gene
geneQuote Spirits……………. Some think it means a BODY or Person,when it Means simply put (INTELLECTS) of the mind. you are so far from truth ,and that God is the source of bad spirit???
this is not written in scriptures,being tolerant is not being the source
Pierre
Do spirits have bodies?? No. Though = for some reason, they seem to be stuck in a Body – while here.
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 02 2011,05:02) Do spirits have bodies?? No. Though = for some reason, they seem to be stuck in a Body – while here.
hi shimmernice to see you back,
let understand that spirit being have a form of body,and to be visible to men they adopting a like men body,
thoughts do also have some type of structure ,just like electricity but it may only last a second,this are not the body's that we talking about ,
we are talking about BEINGS if God created then it exist if it exist then it occupied a space in God creation if not then it does not exist.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 30 2011,06:50)
To all………………The biggest problem in religion most do not understand simple word , Like theseSpirits……………. Some think it means a BODY or Person,when it Means simply put (INTELLECTS) of the mind.
No one here thinks “spirit” MEANS “body”. We argue that spirits HAVE bodies. And the spirit is not the “intellect”, the soul is. The spirit of a man is on loan from God and goes back to God upon the man's death. It is the man's life force, not his thoughts. The thoughts remain with the soul, which is store for a future quickening when God again puts spirit back into it.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 30 2011,06:50)
Heaven………….Some think it means a physical place when it also could mean a High Position of some kind.
So you agree that heaven IS ALSO a physical place?Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 30 2011,06:50)
Fire………………Some think it means literal fire when it means intense Judgements
So it CAN mean “literal fire” then, right?Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 30 2011,06:50)
Hell……………… Some think it means Gehenna or hell fires.
“Hell” is not a scriptural word. The words most often translated as “hell” are “Hades”, “Sheol”, and “Gehenna”.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 30 2011,06:50)
spiritual………….Some think it means an invisible BODY of some kind, when it simply means the way a person thinks.
It can mean either, Gene. “Spiritual person” refers to the way a person thinks. “Spiritual body” can refer to a body of a spiritual believers – such as the church, OR to the body of a spirit being.Gene, you acknowledge that angels do have bodies, right? You just ignore the scriptures that say angels are spirits. Your whole post here, and the other posts you write on HN, make it clear to us that you've based your scriptural understanding on only PART of the scriptures, while ignoring other parts.
mike
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 01 2011,05:02) Do spirits have bodies?? No.
How did they mate with human women and produce Nephilim?Mike…………So you say i post only in Part, Then Show us where the word “SPIRIT BEING” is in scripture. I say there is not such thing as a “SPIRIT BEING” there is only SPIRIT (INTELLECTS). God does not make his angels spirit “BEING” He makes His ANGEL'S (SPIRITS) that are (IN) them and sends them forth to minister. Mike it is you who “FORCE” the text to say what in fact it does not say , no me. You well could it be or does that mean it can not be statements only show how it is you forcing the text to meet you personal dogmas. IMO
peace and love……………………………………………..gene
Let's see who's SCRIPTURALLY correct here, Gene……………
Mike: Angels ARE ministering spirits.
Gene: Angels HAVE ministering spirits INSIDE OF THEM.
Scripture: Hebrews 1:14
Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?Hmmmm…………….which one of US is aligning his statement WITH the scripture?
Mike: Jesus BECAME a life-giving spirit.
Gene: Jesus CAME TO HAVE a life-giving spirit WITHIN HIM.
Scripture: 1 Corinthians 15:45
So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being” ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.Hmmmm…………….which one of US is aligning his statement WITH the scripture?
Gene, your problem is that you think YOU know more than the ones who actually WROTE the scriptures. You read, “I came down from heaven”, but then say, “Mike, you just don't have truth. It really means 'the thought of Jesus in God's head' came down from heaven”, or whatever. And you do this on a large number of scriptures.
They say “BLACK”, and YOU say, “Mike, it really means WHITE”.
Gene, WHO ARE YOU to override what the scriptures actually say by telling us what they “really mean”?
WHO ARE YOU to tell us WE'RE messed up in the head when WE are the ones taking the words of the scriptures as they were written down? Hi Terra. I'm not in the mood for debating, just stating my view, thats all.
Mike I see, you haven't changed have you?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 02 2011,05:30) Let's see who's SCRIPTURALLY correct here, Gene…………… Mike: Angels ARE ministering spirits.
Gene: Angels HAVE ministering spirits INSIDE OF THEM.
Scripture: Hebrews 1:14
Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?Hmmmm…………….which one of US is aligning his statement WITH the scripture?
Mike: Jesus BECAME a life-giving spirit.
Gene: Jesus CAME TO HAVE a life-giving spirit WITHIN HIM.
Scripture: 1 Corinthians 15:45
So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being” ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.Hmmmm…………….which one of US is aligning his statement WITH the scripture?
Gene, your problem is that you think YOU know more than the ones who actually WROTE the scriptures. You read, “I came down from heaven”, but then say, “Mike, you just don't have truth. It really means 'the thought of Jesus in God's head' came down from heaven”, or whatever. And you do this on a large number of scriptures.
They say “BLACK”, and YOU say, “Mike, it really means WHITE”.
Gene, WHO ARE YOU to override what the scriptures actually say by telling us what they “really mean”?
WHO ARE YOU to tell us WE'RE messed up in the head when WE are the ones taking the words of the scriptures as they were written down?
Mike………..Let take this thing about Angels first. Only lets see what else is said OK,Heb 1:7….And of the Angels He says: who makes his Angels Spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Now Mike do you think that he who makes his ministers a flame of fire actually makes them a literial flame of fire, and why not becasue you believe God actually makes a Angel a Spirit “BEING”, No he does not , nor does he make His ANGELS spirit “BEINGS” either. If you understood what Spirit was then you would have no problem understanding what it is being said here . GOD who is SPIRIT makes the SPIRITS (IN) his angels and sends them forth to minister.
That scripture say he simply makes His Angel's Spirits (intellects) that are (IN) them and send them out to minister. You have yet to produce one scripture that say there even exist a “SPIRIT BEING” anywhere for that matter.
A SPIRIT IS (NOT) A “BEING” IT IS WHAT IS (IN) “BEINGS”. THE “INTELLECTS” IN THEM that control there thought simple as that. God fills all creation with Spirits he created, they dwells in all creation. Spirits are not bodies of any kind they are what is (IN) those living Bodies which are living Souls, that animate them all.
There are seven Spirits of God go to and fro throughout all creation on the earth, because they are in all of creation and animate all things that have life (IN) them. Jesus has these Seven Spirit (IN) Him Now, they are the very eyes (intellects)or Spirits of GOD and they Dwell (IN) Jesus. As the book of Rev show them to be. They are also in His SAINTS and these intellects “Eyes” are depicted as being in the wings of the four creatures surrounding the throne of GOD. It shows these eyes in their wing this is to illustrate how they are Lifted up by the intellects (spirits) of God in them above others. IMO
Peace and love…………………………………………gene
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 01 2011,18:07) Mike I see, you haven't changed have you?
Why would I? I only adjust my understanding when someone like you shows it to be scripturally flawed. You have not done that on this subject.I hope all is well with you,
mikeQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 02 2011,10:09) Now Mike do you think that he who makes his ministers a flame of fire actually makes them a literial flame of fire, and why not becasue you believe God actually makes a Angel a Spirit “BEING”,
Yes I do think that, Gene. Why wouldn't I? After all, that IS what the scripture says, right?From the Book of Enoch:
14:12 Its roof had the appearance of agitated stars and flashes of lightning; and among them were cherubim of fire in a stormy sky39:7 Their residence I beheld under the wings of the Lord of spirits. All the holy and the elect sung before him, in appearance like a blaze of fire; their mouths being full of blessings, and their lips glorifying the name of the Lord of spirits
From cannonized scripture:
Genesis 3:24
After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.Exodus 3:2
There the angel of the LORD appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up.2 Kings 6:17
And Elisha prayed, “O LORD, open his eyes so he may see.” Then the LORD opened the servant’s eyes, and he looked and saw the hills full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.Judges 13:20
As the flame blazed up from the altar toward heaven, the angel of the LORD ascended in the flame. Seeing this, Manoah and his wife fell with their faces to the ground.2 Thessalonians 1:7
and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels.Hebrews 1:7
In speaking of the angels he says, “He makes his angels winds, his servants flames of fire.”Revelation 19:12
His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself.Gene, the question is not really why I would believe that angels can have the appearance of flames of fire…………but why you WOULDN'T believe it.
Shimmer,
From the Book of Enoch, Chapter 15:
3 You being spiritual, holy, and possessing a life which is eternal, have polluted yourselves with women; have begotten in carnal blood; have lusted in the blood of men; and have done as those who are flesh and blood do.6But you from the beginning were made spiritual, possessing a life which is eternal, and not subject to death for ever.
7Therefore I made not wives for you, because, being spiritual, your dwelling is in heaven.
8Now the giants, who have been born of spirit and of flesh, shall be called upon earth evil spirits, and on earth shall be their habitation.
This is to show you and JA that the word “spiritual” doesn't always refer to a mind-set. Many times, it refers to an actual SPIRIT BEING, or something “belonging to a spirit”, as the definition I continually showed JA clearly said.
As you can see from these verses, God calls these angels, who have just messed up badly, “spiritual”. So we know it doesn't have to do with them “being good” or “in line with God's will”. Also, the result of these “spiritual” beings mating with human women was giants, who were born of SPIRIT and flesh.
Does that cause you to take another look at the meaning of 1 Cor 15:44?
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
This goes along with Paul's whole teaching that to EVERYTHING, God gives a body to His liking. The “spiritual bodies” mentioned here refer to the BODIES those who are raised to a life in heaven will have as SPIRIT beings.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 03 2011,04:46) Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 01 2011,18:07) Mike I see, you haven't changed have you?
Why would I? I only adjust my understanding when someone like you shows it to be scripturally flawed. You have not done that on this subject.
I was actually refering to the way you were speaking to Gene, Mike.Before I get to your other post, I have done my own summary of the way I see things, now.
I started this thread by stating my belief that Angels and Jesus have wings.
I have come to learn, now, that wings are symbolic. They are symbolic of love & of a shield, a covering & of protection.Visions given by God are symbolic.
An artist interprets a spiritual vision from his mind, and brings that picture into the physical world, relating the spiritual to the human.
So, spiritual vision becomes our eyes, actions become human hands, travel is with birds wings, danger and force are swords, war is chariots and horses, and white clothing is symbolic for sinlessness and purity.I have shown you the biblical meaning of the word anthropomorphism, which is a way of showing things so we can relate to them. God is defined as spirit and a spirit does not have a physical form.
However, there ARE passages in the bible that seem to indicate that God does possess a body.
The Bible says that God has eyes: 2 Corin 16:9.
The bible says that God has arms: Deut:5:15.
The bible says that God has hands: Isaiah 65:2.
Fingers: Exodus 8:19.
And feet: Psalm 8:6.But these are not to be taken literally.
As previously shown, the word for this is anthropomorphism. This is, “the attributing of physical characteristics to God. Descriptive pictures that the Bible uses to help us better understand the varied character of God”.
In the book of Revelations, Jesus is said to have a sword for a tongue, and he is also a door. So to you, then, he looks like a door, and has a sword sticking our of his mouth?
Well to me, from vision, Jesus has a human face shaped like a lions, is upset looking, and rides a horse in the heavens and is coming toward us. I had to understand the symbolism in it, though. Jesus is returning , he is not happy,and the horse symbolises battle.
As in the book of Revelation, you need the right keys to understand each symbolic reference, something I have now come to understand. So, Jesus or Angels having wings is symbolic, once you understand.
This is just my own summary. No need to debate it.
Shimmer………Mike as well as many get confused by the Symbolic Language used in scriptures, you can tell by him actually thinking that a Angel is a Tree on Fire, and He then introduces the Book of Enoch a very questionable book i might add to try to back up his Literal belief system, so you he probably does think Jesus has a sword coming out of his mouth, and believes there are real chariots of fire that exist out there somewhere. But most all “MYSTERY RELIGIOUS” People believe the same way as Mike does. He simply does not understand the symbolic and Metamorphic language in scriptures, He does not understand that even Jesus said he used Proverbs (FACTIOUS LANGUAGE) to describe the FATHER HIMSELF. And we have not even gotten into where the actual word ANGEL can simply Mean Messengers or Ministers.
Wings are indeed symbolic and what do wing do , they lift up things, Notice the Four beast in REVELATIONS has wings and what is (IN) them (EYES) these eyes are there Spirit (intellects) and they lift up in position and stature, this is symbolic language and can not be taken Literally to properly understand it. WE even have people here who think because Wisdom is personified as a Person that it means it really is Jesus not to mention it is Personalized as a women. Our bible are loaded with all kinds of anthropomorphisms and mediators and parallel stories called Parables, from the very beginning of the bible to the very end of it. Fire is used time and time again as a type of intense Judgment no one can even begin to understand scriptures if they do not understand these things.
I am glad you do at least understand this.
peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………………….gene
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