Do spirits have bodies?

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 05 2011,12:39)

Gene, WHY do you suppose the disciples thought they were SEEING a SPIRIT – complete with hands, feet, body, and face?

And not just after the resurrection either. They thought the same thing when they SAW the BODY AND FACE of Jesus walking across the water.

Gene, these people recognized a form complete with a BODY of its own, and still thought they were seeing a SPIRIT. Can you grasp this?

mike

Mike …> I sure can grasp it, they (the apostles) were as ignorant as your are about this subject. That is why Jesus had to tell them that a Spirit does not have flesh and Bone as he had . Now use you mind Mike and ask yourself, why would Jesus even have to say anything about this if the apostles thinking was right in the first place?

Mike No matter what the Disciples “Thought” they saw walking on the water, it was a Man, the (Man) Jesus Christ Himself walking on that water, and also it was the (Man) Peter who also walked on that water. None of that was a Spirit Body of any Kind . Because Spirits do not have Bodies they are what is (IN) Bodies. Simple if you really think about it and come out of “MYSTERY RELIGIONS”. IMO

August 5, 2011 at 2:33 pm#255064

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 05 2011,13:18)

And what Istari (and Gene) claimed went AGAINST scripture – as Gene is maybe finally starting to realize.

Have you read my last two posts to Gene, Shimmer? Maybe YOU could explain why the disciples saw a BODY walking on the water, yet still thought they were seeing a SPIRIT. Do you think it was because Istari and Gene were not around back then to explain to them that spirit beings don't have bodies of their own?

Mike………..you could not be more wrong, i am not coming around to your false point of views at all, so quite misrepresenting Me , and give yourself a tile for that OK>

Mike, I nor Istari had to be there to explain it to the confused Disciples Jesus Himself did it. Now you need to believe what Jesus said about Spirits and your confusion will leave you to, Just as the apostles confusion left them after Jesus explains it to them. IMO

peace and love…………………………………….gene

August 5, 2011 at 11:09 pm#255094

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 05 2011,08:21)

Mike …> I sure can grasp it, they (the apostles) were as ignorant as your are about this subject.

And just like that………….BAM!……………there it is! Now it's not only ME who is stupid, but also the Apostles that Jesus hand picked. The ones he called “those you have given me out of this world”………….so actually, the Father hand-picked them.

How far will you go, Gene? If it comes down to it, will you also claim that JESUS is as “ignorant as me”, just to be right in your OWN mind?

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 05 2011,08:21)

That is why Jesus had to tell them that a Spirit does not have flesh and Bone as he had .

Think about this for a while, Gene. Ask yourself why Jesus didn't say, “Well, you can SEE ME, can't you? Doesn't the fact you're SEEING ME tell you I'm not a spirit?!?!”

He didn't say that, did he Gene? In fact, what was the test Jesus gave? They had to TOUCH HIM so they could be sure the BODY they were SEEING was a HUMAN body, and NOT a SPIRIT BODY.

Are we getting “nearer to clearer” yet? (Thanks Shimmer………….I LOVE that saying! )

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 05 2011,08:21)

Mike No matter what the Disciples “Thought” they saw walking on the water, it was a Man, the (Man) Jesus Christ Himself walking on that water……….

That is very true, Gene. But the fact that they saw a BODY and still thought at the time that it WAS a spirit should tell you something. But you would rather be right and have the Apostles be the “ignorant” ones. Gene, you couldn't be farther from the truth on that point.

peace,
mike

August 6, 2011 at 5:29 am#255121

Participant

Irene,

I wish to go over the wording of first sentence in 1 Corinthians 15:50

Quote

1 Corinthians 15:50

King James Version (KJV)

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

You keep stating it states “enter” and it does not. The word is “inherit”. It also does not speak specifically of the heavens as it litterally states the kingdom of God.

Another scripture that speaks about inheriting the kingdom of God is 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and it obviously covers all that will inherit eternal life as you can see.

Quote

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

King James Version (KJV)

9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

It is best to test what you believe to insure that is actually matches scriptures.

August 6, 2011 at 5:35 am#255122

Participant

Mike,

If you are willing then I would point out that 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 does not stat that the man Paul knew viewed the third heaven it literally states he was caught up into the third heaven and then later caught up into paradise. I therefore assure you that he entered heaven as that is the result of being caught up. I cannot say whether he entered heaven while in his body or if instead it was an out of body experience.

Quote

2 Corinthians 12

King James Version (KJV)

1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

2I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

3And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

4How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

August 6, 2011 at 9:17 am#255135

Pastry

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 06 2011,16:29)

Irene,

I wish to go over the wording of first sentence in 1 Corinthians 15:50

Quote

1 Corinthians 15:50

King James Version (KJV)

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

You keep stating it states “enter” and it does not. The word is “inherit”. It also does not speak specifically of the heavens as it litterally states the kingdom of God.

Another scripture that speaks about inheriting the kingdom of God is 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and it obviously covers all that will inherit eternal life as you can see.

Quote

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

King James Version (KJV)

It is best to test what you believe to insure that is actually matches scriptures.

The question is Kerwin, where is the Kingdom of God…. And how and when do we inherit it???

1Cr 15:50 ¶ Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Peace adn Love Irene

August 6, 2011 at 10:45 am#255139

Participant

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 06 2011,15:17)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 06 2011,16:29)

Irene,

I wish to go over the wording of first sentence in 1 Corinthians 15:50

Quote

1 Corinthians 15:50

King James Version (KJV)

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

You keep stating it states “enter” and it does not. The word is “inherit”. It also does not speak specifically of the heavens as it litterally states the kingdom of God.

Another scripture that speaks about inheriting the kingdom of God is 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and it obviously covers all that will inherit eternal life as you can see.

Quote

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

King James Version (KJV)

It is best to test what you believe to insure that is actually matches scriptures.

The question is Kerwin, where is the Kingdom of God…. And how and when do we inherit it???

1Cr 15:50 ¶ Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Peace adn Love Irene

Irene,

It is by Spirit of righteousness that one inherits the kingdom of God and not by flesh and blood for God is spirit.

August 6, 2011 at 4:02 pm#255150

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 05 2011,23:35)

Mike,

Hi Kerwin,

I am always willing to discuss scriptural matters. The word translated as “caught up” generally means “snatched”, or “carried away as if by force”.

So it could just as easily be saying the man was TAKEN to the third heaven. Again, that doesn't say he entered.

But, let's assume he DID enter, and even walked around in heaven. I will bring the point you are making to Irene right back to you: Scripture doesn't say that flesh cannot “ENTER”. It says “INHERIT”. If God chose to bring a flesh man into heaven for a brief moment, would that qualifiy the man as having INHERITED God's Kingdom?

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 05 2011,23:35)

I cannot say whether he entered heaven while in his body or if instead it was an out of body experience.

So then this is a moot point anyway. For you are trying to base your whole understanding that angels can be made of flesh on an instance where a flesh man MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE BEEN taken up to heaven.

I've pointed this out before, Kerwin. You are putting much weight on this “MAYBE, MAYBE NOT” scripture while totally ignoring the one that CLEARLY says flesh CANNOT inherit God's Kingdom.

peace,
mike

August 6, 2011 at 8:45 pm#255177

Participant

MIke…………If the Apostles Knew all this as you seem to think they did , Then why did Jesus Need to teach them any thing , Was it not becasue they were Ignorant of those thing and why did Jesus have to take them aside and explain to them the Parables he was teaching, if becasue they were chosen by God they did not need to be taught , It was becasue they were Ignorant and slow of Heart , much as you appear to be here. You seem unable to put scripture together and get the correct meanings from them> The disciples thought Jesus was a Ghost not because there (ARE) such thing as Ghosts or Spirit “BODIES”, but because like most all their generation they believed in such things. But i see no where where Jesus ever said there were Ghost or Spirit “BODIES”. Perhaps you bibles or your Net view has some bibles that He taught these things , i have never seen where Jesus ever taught such thing as you claim. So now we are to disbelieve Jesus own word when He said Spirit do not have flesh and bone as he did and that was after his resurrection by the way.

peace and love……………………………………….gene

August 6, 2011 at 8:49 pm#255178

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 06 2011,22:02)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 05 2011,23:35)

Mike,

Hi Kerwin,

I am always willing to discuss scriptural matters. The word translated as “caught up” generally means “snatched”, or “carried away as if by force”.

So it could just as easily be saying the man was TAKEN to the third heaven. Again, that doesn't say he entered.

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 05 2011,23:35)

I cannot say whether he entered heaven while in his body or if instead it was an out of body experience.

So then this is a moot point anyway. For you are trying to base your whole understanding that angels can be made of flesh on an instance where a flesh man MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE BEEN taken up to heaven.

I've pointed this out before, Kerwin. You are putting much weight on this “MAYBE, MAYBE NOT” scripture while totally ignoring the one that CLEARLY says flesh CANNOT inherit God's Kingdom.

peace,
mike

Mike,

I merely wish to establish that flesh and blood can enter heaven to counter some who state scripture declares it cannot.

The letters of scripture do read “Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God”.

A second point I strive to establish is that the Kingdom of God in the time after the thousand years will include both the new heavens and the new earth and not just the heavens only and so the aforementioned scripture is speaking of them all.

Note: edited to replace dropped word.

August 6, 2011 at 10:41 pm#255192

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 06 2011,14:49)

Mike,

I merely wish to establish that flesh and blood can enter heaven to counter some who state scripture declares it cannot.

Then find yourself a scripture that clearly says flesh CAN enter heaven……………not one that is at best a “maybe”.

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 06 2011,14:49)

First of all, how would you know that 1 Cor 15:50 includes the new earth? Secondly, read about New Jerusalem in Revelation. It sounds to me like those welcomed into the city out of the world will be given the right to eat of the tree of life, perhaps thereby becoming a spirit being as opposed to a flesh one. Perhaps all who are citizens of New Jerusalem ARE spirit beings, having been transformed upon acceptance. These are just some thoughts, for I also believe it is said that God will dwell among MAN, and they will see Him.

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 06 2011,14:49)

Note: edited to replace dropped word.

Kerwin, feel free to do what you want, but you don't have to put these disclaimers in. You are free to edit your post without any disclaimer or reason why you edited it…………… up until the time someone else has posted a response to it.

peace,
mike

August 7, 2011 at 12:56 am#255200

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 07 2011,09:41)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 06 2011,14:49)

Mike,

I merely wish to establish that flesh and blood can enter heaven to counter some who state scripture declares it cannot.

Then find yourself a scripture that clearly says flesh CAN enter heaven……………not one that is at best a “maybe”.

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 06 2011,14:49)

Note: edited to replace dropped word.

peace,
mike

Mike…………The kingdom of GOD is a SPIRITUAL Kingdom, brought about by the SPIRIT of GOD and His “KINGDOM “ can inter into flesh and blood or any kind of FLESH. While Flesh and blood or flesh of any kind can't enter into (IT) (IT) can enter into flesh and blood though. “for the kingdom of God comes without observation (IT) is (within you). What is stopping you from comprehending that Mike is it not becasue you have no idea what Spirit really is? If you did that would make sense to you.

All of the worthless gibberish only goes to show those who have the Spiritual sense given them by God and those who do not have it . It also shows who is being taught by GOD and those who are not. Time will truly reveal who does and who does not have Spirit guidance (IN) them> IMO

peace and love……………………………………..gene

August 7, 2011 at 5:01 pm#255247

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 06 2011,18:56)

Truer words have never been spoken Gene.

August 7, 2011 at 5:08 pm#255248

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 06 2011,14:45)

So now we are to disbelieve Jesus own word when He said Spirit do not have flesh and bone as he did and that was after his resurrection by the way.

That is a good question for you to ask Kerwin, not me. I don't believe that spirits have flesh and bone bodies.

What I want to know is why you think Jesus wouldn't have just said, “Spirits don't have bodies at all” since it was apparent that his disciples thought they did.

Why do you think Jesus didn't set them straight on their ignorance, Gene? Better yet, why would Jesus explain to them the KIND of bodies spirits don't have instead of just saying they don't have bodies at all?

Seems a little fishy, no?

August 8, 2011 at 1:31 pm#255311

Participant

Mike……….Nothing “fishy” about it , Jesus just told them that Spirit do not have flesh and bone bodies as he HAD. If you understood from other examples of spirits Jesus gave them, Like when an unclean spirit leave a man (IT) GOES ABOUT IN arid PLACE LOOKING FOR “REST” another words a “BODY” to rest (IN), them you would understand that a spirit does not have a body of it own, and if you understood GOD is a Spirit and resides (IN) and (THROUGH) his creation, it would make sense to you the “SPIRITS DO NOT HAVE BODIES, BUT ARE WHAT DWELLS (IN) BODIES”. God the father was truly (IN) Jesus , Thank about it Mike.

peace and love………………………………………gene

August 8, 2011 at 4:06 pm#255315

Participant

Mike,

Quote

Then find yourself a scripture that clearly says flesh CAN enter heaven……………not one that is at best a “maybe”.

You are using two different measurements as those that claim that flesh can’t contradict scripture that states that it might. The best they can say without contradicting that particular scripture is that it is unknown whether it can or not.

Scripture also does not state or demonstrate Jesus transformed into a spirit being upon ascending to heaven so insisting it is so, if speaking of the physical realm, as is cannot be based on 1 Corinthians 15:50 the new earth and heavens do not yet exist to be inherited and Paul wrote 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 about one of the current heavens.

Quote

First of all, how would you know that 1 Cor 15:50 includes the new earth?

1 Corinthians speaks of the resurrection of the dead in general so what in the context would lead anyone to conclude that verse 50 was speaking of a more select group?

Quote

Secondly, read about New Jerusalem in Revelation. It sounds to me like those welcomed into the city out of the world will be given the right to eat of the tree of life, perhaps thereby becoming a spirit being as opposed to a flesh one.

Equivalent accounts exist in other scriptures as well as you can see from the following ones I quote.

Quote

1 Corinthians 15
King James Version (KJV)

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Quote

1 Thessalonians 4
King James Version (KJV)

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So the account from Revelations and the teaching in 1 Corinthians 15 speak of the change from a mortal body to an immortal body. The later comes from heaven and the earlier from the world for all good things come from heaven and the corrupt from the world. It is from 1 Corinthians 15: 12-18 and 27-29 that I come to understand that the chapter is speaking of a resurrection into an immortal flesh body.

Quote

1 Corinthians 15
King James Version (KJV)

13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

Quote

1 Corinthians 15
King James Version (KJV)

37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

Quote

Thank you for your words as I do that to benefit anyone in the future who reads my post. I can address my errors to those who post to me when responding if it seems important. It is messy but until I improve on catching errors before I post, it is the best I can think of doing. Even then I do not always do it.

August 8, 2011 at 8:21 pm#255324

terraricca

Participant

Kerwin

you are searching for what scriptures do not teach, and so you are looking to justify your personal believes ,

this is not the way to the truth of God,

let your yes mean yes or your no mean no,

scriptures say flesh and blood can NOT go to heaven

so let see your scriptures that says YES ?

Pierre

August 8, 2011 at 10:11 pm#255329