Do spirits have bodies?

[terraricca]

Mike

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Plus, you didn't address Balaam and the donkey

yes i did did you not see it ? ( look at my comment in brackets on Gen 19;11)

what if the angel blind the donkey ,then what all animal do when blinded they stop.no ?

Pierre

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 04 2011,06:58)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2011,18:02) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 02 2011,23:42) You state you do not know of any accounts it scripture that show angels with flesh and bone but both Irene and Pierre admit there are. Did Pierre and Irene become inspired scripture writers when I wasn't looking?    Perhaps an actual scripture that clearly says an angel is made of flesh would help.  Is there one? Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 02 2011,23:42) Pierre also stated he believed there are different kinds of angels.  Something I agree with.  Do you also agree? Yes, I agree with that.  But I can't say whether they are of different species, like man versus dog, or if the differences are more subtle, like Chinese versus African. But there are definitely different RANKS among the angels.  And some are described as different physically than others. peace, mike Mike I think kerwin does not express him self good enough,but first i never told him that i believe that angels are made of flesh and bones,but that angels have materialized them self for some reason, Quote Did Pierre and Irene become inspired scripture writers when I wasn't looking?       Pierre

Pierre,

Sorry I misunderstood you and you are correct that my communications skills are not the best.

Edited to finish sentence.

[kerwin]

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 03 2011,21:23)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 03 2011,16:42) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 03 2011,07:40) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 01 2011,23:44) Paul wrote he was unsure whether a man entered the third heaven in body or out and if he was as sure as you insist then he would not have said he was unsure. Hi Kerwin, Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.  Now, could God bring a flesh man in body to VIEW the third heaven if He wanted to?  Of course He could.  In fact, God could make it so that flesh and blood COULD inherit His Kingdom if He wanted to.  But apparently He does not want to. So Paul, (who IS HIMSELF “the man” he was talking about), could have had a spiritual vision, while his flesh body never left the earth.  OR, he could even have been taken in flesh body to VIEW God's Kingdom.  But that flesh body did not INHERIT it, as in “live there forever”. Just some things to ponder. Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 01 2011,23:44) Have you considered that you choose to excuse the fact that scripture records at least some angels have flesh and bone bodies. I am unaware of any such scripture, Kerwin. peace to you, mike Mike, We agree that a flersh and bone body can enter the heaven is God so wills. You state you do not know of any accounts it scripture that show angels with flesh and bone but both Irene and Pierre admit there are.  They also both currently believe that such events are temporary. Pierre also stated he believed there are different kinds of angels.  Something I agree with.  Do you also agree? Kerwin, wait a minute.  I did not say that Angels have flesh and blood.  The are Spirit Beings.  What I did say is that they can manifest themselves and take on a Human body, to help those on the earth…..they live on clouds and play their Harp's and when it thunders their strings brake….Peace and Love Irene

Irene,

I believe that what I stated means the same thing but I used different words. If it does not then I am not catching the difference between a human body and a flesh and bone body. Please let me know if you know of such a difference.

[kerwin]

To all,

Here are some scriptures about angels to be considered.

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Numbers 22 King James Version (KJV) 21And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his ass, and went with the princes of Moab. 22And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him. 23And the ass saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way. 24But the angel of the LORD stood in a path of the vineyards, a wall being on this side, and a wall on that side. 25And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she thrust herself unto the wall, and crushed Balaam's foot against the wall: and he smote her again. 26And the angel of the LORD went further, and stood in a narrow place, where was no way to turn either to the right hand or to the left. 27And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she fell down under Balaam: and Balaam's anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with a staff. 28And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times? 29And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee. 30And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? and he said, Nay. 31Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face. 32And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine ass these three times? behold, I went out to withstand thee, because thy way is perverse before me: 33And the ass saw me, and turned from me these three times: unless she had turned from me, surely now also I had slain thee, and saved her alive. 34And Balaam said unto the angel of the LORD, I have sinned; for I knew not that thou stoodest in the way against me: now therefore, if it displease thee, I will get me back again. 35And the angel of the LORD said unto Balaam, Go with the men: but only the word that I shall speak unto thee, that thou shalt speak. So Balaam went with the princes of Balak.

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Exodus 3 King James Version (KJV) Exodus 3 1Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb. 2And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.

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Exodus 14 King James Version (KJV) 19And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them:

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Judges 2 King James Version (KJV) 1And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you. 2And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this? 3Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you. 4And it came to pass, when the angel of the LORD spake these words unto all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voice, and wept. 5And they called the name of that place Bochim: and they sacrificed there unto the LORD.

[kerwin]

To  all,

In the account of Baalam and his ass we are taught that the mule saw the angel and avoided him several times before God opened the eyes of Baalam.    Since God opened his eyes it is clear that the angel was present but Baalam could not see him until he had the eyes to see him.    

We also learn that the ass could not speak until God opened her mouth.

In the account of the burning bush we are told that the angel appeared in the fire which leads me to conclude the angel was not the fire.   Later on we are told that God spoke out of the midst of the bush which leads me to believe either the angel is in the midst of the bush or that the bush is the angel.

In the next account we are told how both the angel of God and the pillar of cloud went from in front of the Children of Israel to behind them.  This could mean they are two different things or that the angel was the pillar of cloud.

In the 2nd chapter of Judges we are taught that an angel traveled from Gilgal to Bochim.

So we know angels can be invisible despite being presence and having a presence.  It is also taught that angels may come in different forms and that they at times travel from one place in the earthly realm to another.

[GeneBalthrop]

Kerwin……….Angles do have bodies, they are Not just SPIRITS alone, God creates their Spirits (which are (IN) them) and send them forth to do his biddings. There exists no Such thing as “SPIRIT BODIES” there are SPIRITS (IN) Bodies. If you look it up you will find the angel that was a Adversary to Balam actually reads he was a SATAN to Balam. The word Adversary should be translated translated a Satan i believe. IMO

peace and love…………………………………………gene

[shimmer]

Hi all.
2am in the morning, been thinking.

Can you be in love with someone in the Spirit even if youve never met? (as in Internet relationships) Just a name and some words? Well Im telling you you can. It has nothing to do with the Body. Well it does but it also doesn't.

Is Jesus a Spirit in Heaven or is Jesus a Spirit that can be in us? (as the Quakers would call it the inner light – I'v been learning a lot off them, lately) Or is Jesus right now in the flesh seated on a throne? What does Jesus do all day?  (yeah, you know what I mean).

So what is Spirit? Spirit is LIKE the wind it blows wherever it will. This doesn't mean Spirit is JUST like the wind. It means it functions like the wind and goes wherever it wants to. We know from the Bible, that Jesus was a life giving Spirit.   YLT – “The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam is for a life-giving spirit” and we know Jesus was risen in the flesh and bone. But we also know flesh and blood cannot enter Heaven. So put it all together and you have exactly what Istari was saying all along.

Another thing is that Jesus appeared to Paul.

Acts 9:3-9

And in the going, he came nigh to Damascus, and suddenly there shone round about him a light from the heaven,  and having fallen upon the earth, he heard a voice saying to him, 'Saul, Saul, why me dost thou persecute?'  And he said, 'Who art thou, Lord?' and the Lord said, 'I am Jesus whom thou dost persecute; hard for thee at the pricks to kick;'  trembling also, and astonished, he said, 'Lord, what dost thou wish me to do?' and the Lord said unto him, 'Arise, and enter into the city, and it shall be told thee what it behoveth thee to do.'  And the men who are journeying with him stood speechless, hearing indeed the voice but seeing no one,  and Saul arose from the earth, and his eyes having been opened, he beheld no one, and leading him by the hand they brought him to Damascus, and he was three days without seeing, and he did neither eat nor drink.

So Paul saw a light and heard the voice from Heaven (the sky). And those with Paul heard the voice but saw no-one, and didn't see the same light Paul did.

The flesh profits nothing, the Spirit gives life.

Ok. Goodnight.

[Pastry]

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Irene, I believe that what I stated means the same thing but I used different words.  If it does not then I am not catching the difference between a human body and a flesh and bone body. Please let me know if you know of such a difference.

Kerwin!  I did not say flesh and bone, I said flesh and blood body.   There is no such a thing as flesh and bone, it could not exist without the blood……

And Jesus resurrected in a Spiritual Body not a natural body…..

1Cr 15:42   So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:  

1Cr 15:43   It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:  

1Cr 15:44   It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.  

1Cr 15:45   And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.  

Peace and Love Irene

[GeneBalthrop]

To All…………Jesus was raised with a flesh and bone Body , Just as He said he was, and he said that body he had was NOT a Spirit in fact he said Spirits do not have bodies as He had Simple Just believe what Jesus said and you have the answer. Spirits do not have Bodies they are what is (IN) Bodies. And the included Jesus' Body he was raised up from death with. MYSTERY RELIGION has twisted this up in peoples Minds to believe there is a SPIRIT BODY< when in fact not such thing exists. IMO

peace and love to you all…………………………………………….gene

[Pastry]

Scripture say that there is a natural body and there is a Spiritual Body…..
Who knows what the difference is?  They are not the same, because it says and there is…

1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
It is RAISED a Spiritual Body.

RAISED< RAISED anyone seeing this?

So when someone says thee is no Spiritual Body, which is Spirit He or She goes aginst Scriptures….

.Irene

[shimmer]

All, do you believe that everything stopped at the Apostles? Do you believe there cannot be further revelation to individuals? What does the Bible say? It says you search the SCRIPTURES because you think that IN THEM you have eternal life but you refuse to come to me. Where is Jesus now? Do you believe that Jesus or the Spirit reveals things still to people? HOW DO YOU KNOW that things such as dimensions and scriptural fractal wasn't revealed to Istari? In earlier writings it warns AGAINST judging a revelation given to someone, unless you know for sure what they say is wrong. I think it's listed as the unforgivable sin, if not repented of.  This is just going from memory. No wonder i was a bit confused. I was refusing to listen to Jesus and believed all of you – that Scripture is where ALL the answers are. And if it's not in Scripture then it's not true.

[Pastry]

Shimmer!  Let me ask you a question.  Did all the Pharisees because the didn't believe Jesus committed the unpardonable Sin?  I don't think so…… If I am enlightened by the Holy Spirit and then go against that, that is going against the Holy Spirit of God, that is the unpardonable Sin.  

Like they believed Jesus first and then they didn't and went back to unbelieving Jesus, that is considered the unpardonable sin…..

2Pe 2:20   For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.  

2Pe 2:21   For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.  

Peace and Love Irene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 03 2011,21:32)

Mike Quote Plus, you didn't address Balaam and the donkey yes i did did you not see it ? ( look at my comment in brackets on Gen 19;11) what if the angel blind the donkey ,then what all animal do when blinded they stop.no ? Pierre

Numbers 22:23
And the ass saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 04 2011,08:33)

To All…………Jesus was raised with a flesh and bone Body , Just as He said he was, and he said that body he had was NOT a Spirit in fact he said Spirits do not have bodies as He had

Hi Gene,

Why would you refuse to comment on my explanation post, but then still continue to post false information like this?  

Gene, WHY do you suppose the disciples thought they were SEEING a SPIRIT – complete with hands, feet, body, and face?

And not just after the resurrection either. They thought the same thing when they SAW the BODY AND FACE of Jesus walking across the water.

Gene, these people recognized a form complete with a BODY of its own, and still thought they were seeing a SPIRIT. Can you grasp this?

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 04 2011,16:04)

HOW DO YOU KNOW that things such as dimensions and scriptural fractal wasn't revealed to Istari?

I'm sure they WERE revealed to him…………..by the DISCOVERY CHANNEL.    Shimmer, God-given revelations will not go AGAINST the scriptures.  Nothing new that God reveals can ever contradict the other scriptures because the Holy Scriptures can be broken.  And what Istari (and Gene) claimed went AGAINST scripture – as Gene is maybe finally starting to realize.

Have you read my last two posts to Gene, Shimmer?  Maybe YOU could explain why the disciples saw a BODY walking on the water, yet still thought they were seeing a SPIRIT.  Do you think it was because Istari and Gene were not around back then to explain to them that spirit beings don't have bodies of their own?

Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 04 2011,16:04)

It says you search the SCRIPTURES because you think that IN THEM you have eternal life but you refuse to come to me.

IMO, too many people use that scripture improperly.  And it seems the culprit is always someone who is trying to convince others about a revelation they've been given which seems to contradict other scriptures.

Jesus was not saying it was WRONG to search the scriptures.  He was saying, “Here you are, pouring over the scriptures and searching for the 'key' to everlasting life, when right in front of you is the dude that those very scriptures tell about……………..the 'key' himself, who CAN give you the eternal life you've been looking to find in the scriptures.  But you can't see the forest for the trees!”

Get it?  Jesus was not saying the scriptures were “unimportant”.  Or that learning every inch of them was harmful in any way.  In fact, Jesus said, “I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.” He also said, “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.”

To me, that sets those scriptures and our attempts to understand them to the fullest extent possible at a very HIGH priority.

peace,
mike

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 05 2011,19:30)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 03 2011,21:32) Mike Quote Plus, you didn't address Balaam and the donkey yes i did did you not see it ? ( look at my comment in brackets on Gen 19;11) what if the angel blind the donkey ,then what all animal do when blinded they stop.no ? Pierre Numbers 22:23 And the ass saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way.

Mike
so it was Balaam that was blinded and could not see the angel

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Hi Pierre,

OR……………………..the angel remained a spirit being in a spirit body the whole time, and God at first opened only the donkey's eyes to see him. After that, God also opened Balaam's eyes to see this spirit being in his spirit body.

Consider Elisha and his servant. Elisha could see the spirit chariots and horses the whole time. But it was only after Elisha asked God to open the eyes of his servant that he too was able to see them.

The chariots and horses did not “manifest flesh” in order to be seen, did they?

peace,
mike

[kerwin]

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 04 2011,19:59)

Quote Irene, I believe that what I stated means the same thing but I used different words.  If it does not then I am not catching the difference between a human body and a flesh and bone body. Please let me know if you know of such a difference. Kerwin!  I did not say flesh and bone, I said flesh and blood body.   There is no such a thing as flesh and bone, it could not exist without the blood…… And Jesus resurrected in a Spiritual Body not a natural body….. 1Cr 15:42   So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:   1Cr 15:43   It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:   1Cr 15:44   It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.   1Cr 15:45   And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.   Peace and Love Irene

Irene,

All things are possible with God.

[kerwin]

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 05 2011,00:47)

Scripture say that there is a natural body and there is a Spiritual Body….. Who knows what the difference is?  They are not the same, because it says and there is… 1Cr 15:42   So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:   1Cr 15:43   It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:   1Cr 15:44   It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.   It is RAISED a Spiritual Body.   RAISED< RAISED  anyone seeing this? So when someone says thee is no Spiritual Body, which is Spirit He or She goes aginst Scriptures…. .Irene

Irene,

No one disagrees that there is a natural body and there is a spiritual body.  The disagreement is what the spiritual body is composed of.

Note: Edited to correct spelling.

[shimmer]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 05 2011,20:36)

Irene, All things are possible with God.

That's right Kerwin

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