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Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2011,22:32) Pierre and Mike, According to my understanding of the proper use of a comma it serves one of four uses which are to “separate the elements in a series “, “ connect two independent clauses”, “set off introductory elements”, or “set off parenthetical elements”.
In verse the Luke 24:39 “as ye see me have” is a parenthetical element of the sentence fragment “for a spirit hath not flesh and bones” and is an example of flesh and bone.
Before that fragment is a semicolon which serves in place of a conjunction to separate Jesus’s instructions “handle me, and see’. It thus seems clear he is instructing them to touch him and see that he is not a spit but rather that he is flesh and bone as he claims.
Never the less they were still not convinced as in verse 41 of the same book and chapter we are taught just that and Jesus' response to their unbelief was to ask for food in order to eat and that appeared to convince them that he was not a spirit but rather was a flesh and bone human being.
That seems like straightforward English to me so I have trouble understanding where you understand those words any other way so perhaps you could explain it to me as I have explained how I have obtained my understanding.
NOTES
kerwinwhat is your question or ?
Quote (terraricca @ July 26 2011,10:50) Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2011,22:32) Pierre and Mike, According to my understanding of the proper use of a comma it serves one of four uses which are to “separate the elements in a series “, “ connect two independent clauses”, “set off introductory elements”, or “set off parenthetical elements”.
In verse the Luke 24:39 “as ye see me have” is a parenthetical element of the sentence fragment “for a spirit hath not flesh and bones” and is an example of flesh and bone.
Before that fragment is a semicolon which serves in place of a conjunction to separate Jesus’s instructions “handle me, and see’. It thus seems clear he is instructing them to touch him and see that he is not a spit but rather that he is flesh and bone as he claims.
Never the less they were still not convinced as in verse 41 of the same book and chapter we are taught just that and Jesus' response to their unbelief was to ask for food in order to eat and that appeared to convince them that he was not a spirit but rather was a flesh and bone human being.
That seems like straightforward English to me so I have trouble understanding where you understand those words any other way so perhaps you could explain it to me as I have explained how I have obtained my understanding.
NOTES
kerwinwhat is your question or ?
Pierre,I thought I was straight forward in pointing out that Jesus asked his disciples to first touch and then when then continued to doubt to feed him in order to prove he was flesh and bone and not spirit.
I then when on to ask if you could explain how you understood that scripture any other way by using English comprehension teachings just as I did.
Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2011,22:58) Quote (terraricca @ July 26 2011,10:50) Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2011,22:32) Pierre and Mike, According to my understanding of the proper use of a comma it serves one of four uses which are to “separate the elements in a series “, “ connect two independent clauses”, “set off introductory elements”, or “set off parenthetical elements”.
In verse the Luke 24:39 “as ye see me have” is a parenthetical element of the sentence fragment “for a spirit hath not flesh and bones” and is an example of flesh and bone.
Before that fragment is a semicolon which serves in place of a conjunction to separate Jesus’s instructions “handle me, and see’. It thus seems clear he is instructing them to touch him and see that he is not a spit but rather that he is flesh and bone as he claims.
Never the less they were still not convinced as in verse 41 of the same book and chapter we are taught just that and Jesus' response to their unbelief was to ask for food in order to eat and that appeared to convince them that he was not a spirit but rather was a flesh and bone human being.
That seems like straightforward English to me so I have trouble understanding where you understand those words any other way so perhaps you could explain it to me as I have explained how I have obtained my understanding.
NOTES
kerwinwhat is your question or ?
Pierre,I thought I was straight forward in pointing out that Jesus asked his disciples to first touch and then when then continued to doubt to feed him in order to prove he was flesh and bone and not spirit.
I then when on to ask if you could explain how you understood that scripture any other way by using English comprehension teachings just as I did.
KerwinI would be the last person you should ask to teach English to anyone ,I am still a student ,
but as for scriptures knowledge this is my world ,
Pierre
kerwin
Mk 16:14 Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.
Lk 24:25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
Lk 24:41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?”Jn 20:31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
it is not of grammar but of believing ,grammar is easy but believing not that easy.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ July 26 2011,11:09) kerwin Mk 16:14 Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.
Lk 24:25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
Lk 24:41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?”Jn 20:31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
it is not of grammar but of believing ,grammar is easy but believing not that easy.
Pierre
Pierre,You are correct that believing is what is important but good grammer is the way to effectively communicate and understand the gospel of Christ.
Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2011,23:19) Quote (terraricca @ July 26 2011,11:09) kerwin Mk 16:14 Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.
Lk 24:25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
Lk 24:41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?”Jn 20:31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
it is not of grammar but of believing ,grammar is easy but believing not that easy.
Pierre
Pierre,You are correct that believing is what is important but good grammer is the way to effectively communicate and understand the gospel of Christ.
kerwin
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 26 2011,13:57) Quote (terraricca @ July 25 2011,14:47) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 26 2011,14:44) Terricca……….Shimmer was talking about the Spirit of Jezebel, not the physical Person of Jezebel . Think about it Pierre. If you understood that a Spirit of the same thing can exist in anyone at the same time, you could see this , The spirit of Jezebel was the Spirit of Fornication and Adultery, and that was what Shimmer Meant. See you think Spirit are “BEINGS” but they are not they are (INTELLECTS) of Different tyes and they are in all souls that have life (IN) them. peace and love……………………………….gene
Geneare you talking about demons??
Mark 5
12 The demons begged Jesus, “Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them.” 13 He gave them permission, and the evil spirits came out and went into the pigs.Pierre,
Gene cannot see that the beings mentioned here as “demons” are the same exact beings who are later called “evil spirits”.
In Gene's eyes, it was a bunch of “LIES” that possessed the man, then talked to Jesus, and then went into the pigs.
Mike……….Where did i ever say Demonic Spirits do not exist, Please stop putting word in my mouth from you ignorant point of views. Because you don't know what Spirits ARE that is your problem. Spirit are Not “BEINGS” Spirits are what is (IN) BEINGS. even your own example shows that. These Legion of Demonic “SPIRITS” were not Angels at all but were Evil Spirits or Evil INTELLECTS that were effecting the Mans thinking just as your spirits effect your thinking. They are (INTELLECTS) and CAN Speak through a PERSON, Just as “GOD who is SPIRIT” can SPEAK Through US as Well. Again you whole problem is you have no idea what Spirits really are, and that is obvious by you trying to make them into “BEINGS” instead of ” intellects which are (IN) Beings”Your very “BEING” is effect by Spirits (IN) YOU rather they be clean or unclean, and they are not clean or unclean Bodies that are (IN) you but Spirits or INTELLECTS imparting your thinking to you.
As i have said you have no idea what Spirits really are or you would not make such an ignorant post. IMO
peace and love……………………………gene
gene
Quote Your very “BEING” is effect by Spirits (IN) YOU rather they be clean or unclean, and they are not clean or unclean Bodies that are (IN) you but Spirits or INTELLECTS imparting your thinking to you. this is the soul of men ,that is you and if you are full of corrupt thinking like lies,sex,murder,ect,,,,,,,,,,,you are then unclean
when your body is unclean you take a shower this would fix it,Pierre
Pierre……….Wrong , a Soul is simply a BODY with SPIRIT (IN) it nothing more and nothing less. You making a man consist of three things when it is only two things that compose a Human being ,,,,, A Body and SPIRIT of LIFE (IN) it . As i have said before You have bought into “MYSTERY RELIGIOUS” TEACHINGS , it doesn;t matter if you belong to a organized religion or not, you still believe what they teach, that a soul is separate from a BODY and Spirit. This causes you confusion Just like not understanding that GOD the Father was truly (IN) Jesus , by this you are making Jesus the object of you religion instead of GOD the FATHER.God was truly (IN) Jesus By his Spirit which is an was the LOGOS sent (INTO) HIM and in this way the FATHER was truly (IN) Jesus and can the same way be (IN) us also. Sometimes we need to unlearn what we have learned inorder to getthe right Picture in our minds Pierre.
peace and love……………………………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 27 2011,11:42) Pierre……….Wrong , a Soul is simply a BODY with SPIRIT (IN) it nothing more and nothing less. You making a man consist of three things when it is only two things that compose a Human being ,,,,, A Body and SPIRIT of LIFE (IN) it . As i have said before You have bought into “MYSTERY RELIGIOUS” TEACHINGS , it doesn;t matter if you belong to a organized religion or not, you still believe what they teach, that a soul is separate from a BODY and Spirit. This causes you confusion Just like not understanding that GOD the Father was truly (IN) Jesus , by this you are making Jesus the object of you religion instead of GOD the FATHER.God was truly (IN) Jesus By his Spirit which is an was the LOGOS sent (INTO) HIM and in this way the FATHER was truly (IN) Jesus and can the same way be (IN) us also. Sometimes we need to unlearn what we have learned inorder to getthe right Picture in our minds Pierre. peace and love……………………………………………….gene
geneno ,see what Jesus says;Mt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
only God can kill the soul because it is he that as given it,
and all the words in scriptures do not mean the samething'
spirit =angels
spirit = understanding of
spirit = the meaning of
spirit = demon
spirit = the will intention
spirit = reason of
spirit = soul ( only spirit thats need a body)
spirit = of sin
spirit = of godly glory
spirit = of loveect;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
Pierre
Thank you Gene.
Mike,
Quote I'm sorry, but I don't usually care to discuss matters of an unscriptural nature on this forum. Haha. Yet you will discuss unscriptural writings from LU. Actually Jezebel is in Scripture, if you look at Revelations Jesus says to not tolerate Jezebel. And Jesus also said the witness of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy. Also, if you know about Elijah, then the Old Testement and new talks about this and it's connected to the story of Jezebel. And in regards to the Body of Christ does it not say the Ecclesia is the Body of Christ? And if you do things to harm any of them, the true ones, you do it in fact to Christ because he is one with them? They are His Body. That was the point I was making.
Just something to think about Mike in regards to Spirits and Bodies. See ya.
Quote (shimmer @ July 26 2011,17:33) Thank you Gene. Mike,
Quote I'm sorry, but I don't usually care to discuss matters of an unscriptural nature on this forum. Haha. Yet you will discuss unscriptural writings from LU. Actually Jezebel is in Scripture, if you look at Revelations Jesus says to not tolerate Jezebel. And Jesus also said the witness of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy. Also, if you know about Elijah, then the Old Testement and new talks about this and it's connected to the story of Jezebel. And in regards to the Body of Christ does it not say the Ecclesia is the Body of Christ? And if you do things to harm any of them, the true ones, you do it in fact to Christ because he is one with them? They are His Body. That was the point I was making.
Just something to think about Mike in regards to Spirits and Bodies. See ya.
Hi Shimmer,I know about Jezebel. I'm not aware of any scriptural teaching about the “spirit of Jezebel”.
As far as the rest of your post, yes, I know there are many meanings of “spirit”. The point of this thread was to discuss if spirit BEINGS, such as angels, Jesus, demons, those raised from death to a life in heaven, and God have bodies.
If a person does something nice for you, and you say, “She sure has a good spirit”, you are using only ONE of the many meanings of “spirit”. I had never intended to discuss this particular definition, or to claim that this person's “nice personality” had a body of its own. The discussion has always been about spirit BEINGS.
peace and love to you,
mikeQuote (kerwin @ July 25 2011,22:32) Pierre and Mike, According to my understanding of the proper use of a comma it serves one of four uses which are to “separate the elements in a series “, “ connect two independent clauses”, “set off introductory elements”, or “set off parenthetical elements”.
In verse the Luke 24:39 “as ye see me have” is a parenthetical element of the sentence fragment “for a spirit hath not flesh and bones” and is an example of flesh and bone.
Before that fragment is a semicolon which serves in place of a conjunction to separate Jesus’s instructions “handle me, and see’. It thus seems clear he is instructing them to touch him and see that he is not a spit but rather that he is flesh and bone as he claims.
Never the less they were still not convinced as in verse 41 of the same book and chapter we are taught just that and Jesus' response to their unbelief was to ask for food in order to eat and that appeared to convince them that he was not a spirit but rather was a flesh and bone human being.
That seems like straightforward English to me so I have trouble understanding where you understand those words any other way so perhaps you could explain it to me as I have explained how I have obtained my understanding.
NOTES
Hi Kerwin,Well, although I appreciate your effort and the time and research you went through, the original mss of the NT did not have punctuation marks. So trying to decypher the meaning of any particular scripture based on the punctuation marks that men have LATER added seems to be a lesson in futility.
I do find it odd that you quote a scripture where Jesus says “spirits DON'T have flesh” as support to your understanding that angels DO have flesh.
Kerwin, do you think Jesus WAS a spirit being while he was telling his disciples he wasn't?
And I can see how you came to your conclusion about the “eating” and “touching” test – although the words don't actually spell it out for us.
But I am confused as to how you are trying to use this “test”. If the eating and touching were to prove to the disciples that Jesus WASN'T a spirit being, then how do you use that test to prove that angels DO have flesh bodies?
I'm apparently lost or something.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Gene Balthrop @ July 26 2011,07:15) Mike……….Where did i ever say Demonic Spirits do not exist, Please stop putting word in my mouth from you ignorant point of views.
I see. So you believe in demons, but just not in their leader Satan?Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 26 2011,07:15) Again you whole problem is you have no idea what Spirits really are, and that is obvious by you trying to make them into “BEINGS” instead of ” intellects which are (IN) Beings”
Can these “intellects” think for themselves and make their own decisions, etc? “I THINK, therefore I AM”. And anyone who can say “I AM” is a being, Gene.Do you seriously think our God is not a Being?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2011,06:39) Quote (kerwin @ July 25 2011,22:32) Pierre and Mike, According to my understanding of the proper use of a comma it serves one of four uses which are to “separate the elements in a series “, “ connect two independent clauses”, “set off introductory elements”, or “set off parenthetical elements”.
In verse the Luke 24:39 “as ye see me have” is a parenthetical element of the sentence fragment “for a spirit hath not flesh and bones” and is an example of flesh and bone.
Before that fragment is a semicolon which serves in place of a conjunction to separate Jesus’s instructions “handle me, and see’. It thus seems clear he is instructing them to touch him and see that he is not a spit but rather that he is flesh and bone as he claims.
Never the less they were still not convinced as in verse 41 of the same book and chapter we are taught just that and Jesus' response to their unbelief was to ask for food in order to eat and that appeared to convince them that he was not a spirit but rather was a flesh and bone human being.
That seems like straightforward English to me so I have trouble understanding where you understand those words any other way so perhaps you could explain it to me as I have explained how I have obtained my understanding.
NOTES
Hi Kerwin,Well, although I appreciate your effort and the time and research you went through, the original mss of the NT did not have punctuation marks. So trying to decypher the meaning of any particular scripture based on the punctuation marks that men have LATER added seems to be a lesson in futility.
I do find it odd that you quote a scripture where Jesus says “spirits DON'T have flesh” as support to your understanding that angels DO have flesh.
Kerwin, do you think Jesus WAS a spirit being while he was telling his disciples he wasn't?
And I can see how you came to your conclusion about the “eating” and “touching” test – although the words don't actually spell it out for us.
But I am confused as to how you are trying to use this “test”. If the eating and touching were to prove to the disciples that Jesus WASN'T a spirit being, then how do you use that test to prove that angels DO have flesh bodies?
I'm apparently lost or something.
peace and love,
mike
Mike,I was using the test to prove angels are not spirit beings.
I suppose it could be said that they have a physical body that replicates flesh and bone in the same manner as Repliee Q1Expo.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2011,12:00) Can these “intellects” think for themselves and make their own decisions, etc? “I THINK, therefore I AM”. And anyone who can say “I AM” is a being, Gene. Do you seriously think our God is not a Being?
These Spirit INTELLECTS (ARE) the thinking in a body and they can be replaced or added to given or taken BY GOD. When God casts out unclean spirits (intellect) these unclean Spirits are removed by him and can not effect his thinking any longer unless they are returned. The are not “BODIES” as you suppose they are, but INTELLECTS that reside (IN) our Minds. IMOpeace and love…………………………….gene.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 28 2011,09:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2011,12:00) Can these “intellects” think for themselves and make their own decisions, etc? “I THINK, therefore I AM”. And anyone who can say “I AM” is a being, Gene. Do you seriously think our God is not a Being?
These Spirit INTELLECTS (ARE) the thinking in a body and they can be replaced or added to given or taken BY GOD. When God casts out unclean spirits (intellect) these unclean Spirits are removed by him and can not effect his thinking any longer unless they are returned. The are not “BODIES” as you suppose they are, but INTELLECTS that reside (IN) our Minds. IMOpeace and love…………………………….gene.
MikeGene falls back to square one ,
he lost it all again,
so enjoy
Pierre
Okay,
I'll go back to square one with him if that's what it will take. But not tonight. I've been posting all over the place tonight, and I'm TIRED.
And I haven't forgotten you Kerwin. I want to discuss your last post soon.
peace and goodnight,
mikeTerricca…………..I never left square one , because “Square One” it the correct understanding , I don't add all kinds of false assumption as Mike and you do by saying Spirits are BODIES , SPIRITS ARE WHAT IS (IN) BODIES , NOT BODIES THEMSELVES that is “SQUARE ONE” and doesn't change not natter what you or Mike think Pierre. IMO
peace and love……………………………………………….gene
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