Do spirits have bodies?

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 02 2010,18:31)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 01 2010,13:34)

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 02 2010,08:59)

I came across this verse to show that spirit is the opposite of flesh in some contexts:

Isa 31:3
3 Now the Egyptians are men and not God, And their horses are flesh and not spirit; So the Lord will stretch out His hand, And he who helps will stumble And he who is helped will fall, And all of them will come to an end together.
NASU

Kathi

were does it says they are opposite??

flesh is flesh and spirits are spirits,thats all it says.

Pierre

Hi Pierre,
Notice the contrast in each clause:
man to God
flesh to spirit

This is a contrast to two unlike things in each clause.
Basically the weak natural is compared to the strong, supernatural.

Kathi

NO;

Egyptians are men ;this means they do not control nothing because it is God who control all things.

their horses are flesh and not spirit :the horses represent the power and are flesh or men powers,; not spirit powers than can kill 185000 men in one nite.

so the contrast is shown to be the futile power of men and the power of God.

Pierre

December 2, 2010 at 10:10 am#227359

Participant

Mike,
You are right as far as Angels and Jesus being Spirits are concerned.
When i wrote what i did first off, i'd thought you said 'Spirits and other THINGS' but i had to rewrite it after i realised you said 'Angels and other Spirit beings'…that was an error…

But what you seem to fail to understand, you even ignore (why?) is that Jesus, now, is a new creation, a 'Spiritual Man'. This, Mike, is the Spirit with Body, that Scriptures refers to.
Jesus is the first of this new creation, of which many others will follow, and this is what was meant when God said, 'You are My Son, Today, I have become your Father'.
This is the TRUE Son of God, the EVERLASTING SON.

Mike, i keep asking 'What if Adam had NOT sinned?'
Adam would have died, eventually, and then raised again as THE Spiritual Son of God.
Flesh and blood cannot go into Heaven, so Adam would have figuretively had to eat from the Tree of Life at some point in his life…

See, Adam would not have lived 'forever', else why was there a Tree of Life from which he was forbidden to eat the fruit. Man was not furnished with all knowledge, hence he overstepped the mark when he ate from the Tree of the knowledge of Good and bad. Else they would not be in sin for anything they did….see, even our human laws reflect that of Gods….
Viz,. While you are a child, you are guiltless of 'Sin'. When you are Adult…you are guilty of all sins, having learnt what sin is….
Goodness, we are made in the image of God…we do, in Mini, what God does in Major…

Jesus EMPTIED himself….please do not refer to preJesus as concerning 'postJesus'.

Jesus became a MAN. This is where Gene starts idea of Jesus' life as Christ. Gene isn't wrong about Jesus' life from birth as Man, he just refuses to see the preExistent part…and you (and i) were right to say, 'stay out of the preExistent thread then. It is exlicitly aimed for discussion by preExistent believers…thank you'

So, as MAN…Jesus replaces Adam as 'Son of God' in the flesh…
In addition, Jesus, having conquered Sin, died to cleanse mankind from the original sin of Adam that condemned ALL of Mankind to eternal death.
Having achieved both, Jesus, as MAN, is raised up, figuratively eating from the Tree of Life, and is now an Everlasting MAN in Spirit, the first (I hear others say others have gone to Heaven…maybe 'one of the HEAVENS….but certainly not THE HEAVEN, the abode of God where only completely sinless ones may stand in the presence if God)

So, Angels are Spirits…and do not have bodies….SPIRITS….
Jesus is BOTH a Spirit, and 'a permanent recognisable featured' Flesh and Blood bodied being…dependent on where he is, Heaven or Earth.
No Angel has recognisable features. They announce who they are when it is required for an explicit purpose, for they do not wish to glorify themselves, nor have anyone glorify them, wisely, in view of the fact that 'God is a Jealous God. He will not share his Glory with anyone'

December 2, 2010 at 4:46 pm#227384

GeneBalthrop

Participant

To all…………Adam and Eve could have lived for Ever with the bodies they Had, or else why did God say they could eat of the tree of Life and never die then?. God made the whole physical creation for man for his future exploration, for adventures, and future habitations as it say “that he might PLANT the HEAVENS”. Man is not made to become some invisible Spirit drifting around in endless space without any definite goal or direction of explorations or anything, It have not even “Enter the MIND OF “MAN” the things God has Prepared for HIM”. (MAN) if it is prepared for MAN the MAN has to be there right?

Man has a definite future as MAN not some elusive unseen spirit drifting around in space without any body of any kind. When mans human body and mind is lead by the Spirit of GOD it is then considered a “Spiritual body” or a body led by Spirit same thing as Paul explained many times, because the Spirit is guiding it, but it is still a flesh body. And it is true “Flesh and Blood can not enter the Kingdom of GOD”, but the Kingdom of GOD can inter that body of flesh and blood. “For the kingdom of God comes without observation it is (WITHIN) YOU. Yes it was WITHIN JESUS AND THE APOSTLES AND ALL DISCIPLES OF CHRIST. Why can't you people understand these simple things? IMO

peace and love to you and yours ………………………………………..gene

December 2, 2010 at 8:27 pm#227386

Lightenup

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 01 2010,22:48)

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 02 2010,18:31)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 01 2010,13:34)

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 02 2010,08:59)

I came across this verse to show that spirit is the opposite of flesh in some contexts:

Kathi

were does it says they are opposite??

flesh is flesh and spirits are spirits,thats all it says.

Pierre

Hi Pierre,
Notice the contrast in each clause:
man to God
flesh to spirit

This is a contrast to two unlike things in each clause.
Basically the weak natural is compared to the strong, supernatural.

Kathi

NO;

Egyptians are men ;this means they do not control nothing because it is God who control all things.

their horses are flesh and not spirit :the horses represent the power and are flesh or men powers,; not spirit powers than can kill 185000 men in one nite.

so the contrast is shown to be the futile power of men and the power of God.

Pierre

Pierre,
That is what I said. You seem to just automatically disagree and do not think about what I posted. Why is that?

December 2, 2010 at 8:57 pm#227390

Participant

Gene,
You have gone over the edge…

That what you said, is not what i mean…

You even quote something glorious and yet fail to capitalise on it.

“It has not entered the mind of Man what God has prepared for him”

Gene, this means what, to you?

To me, it means, 'no matter what comes to the imagination of Man ( and anything he imagines God gives him allowance to try to bring into being – For we are gods, made in the image of Almighty God), God has more to offer them. One thing is that fleshly Man is limited to the earth and to three dimensional space.
Man has always dreamt of coursing through the Cosmos…the dream only being lived out in books and movies, the reality, a shattering false hope. Why? Exactly because Man is flesh, limited in lifespan and dependent on material resources to sustain him, even the 'BioGarden' is not actually sustainable…'Perpetual Motion is not a reality in the hands of Man'.

What I said, or meant, was that Man would become a Spirit Man. Spirit Man exactly like Jesus became.

This does not mean that we will not live on the earth. God planned for man to live on the earth, but he also planned for what Jesus achieved, and if Jesus became a Spirit Man, why did God make him so…and then promised that others would also become so, Jesus being the first of many…and doesn't Scriptures say so, 'they will put off the flesh and put on the Spirit', 'They will become Sons of God, and as Sons, then brothers with Christ, and as brothers, Heirs with him'

December 2, 2010 at 9:57 pm#227394

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 03 2010,13:27)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 01 2010,22:48)

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 02 2010,18:31)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 01 2010,13:34)

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 02 2010,08:59)

I came across this verse to show that spirit is the opposite of flesh in some contexts:

Kathi

were does it says they are opposite??

flesh is flesh and spirits are spirits,thats all it says.

Pierre

Hi Pierre,
Notice the contrast in each clause:
man to God
flesh to spirit

This is a contrast to two unlike things in each clause.
Basically the weak natural is compared to the strong, supernatural.

Kathi

NO;

Egyptians are men ;this means they do not control nothing because it is God who control all things.

their horses are flesh and not spirit :the horses represent the power and are flesh or men powers,; not spirit powers than can kill 185000 men in one nite.

so the contrast is shown to be the futile power of men and the power of God.

Pierre[/quote]
Pierre,
That is what I said. You seem to just automatically disagree and do not think about what I posted. Why is that?

Kathi

if that was you mend well we are both in accord,

thanks

Pierre

December 2, 2010 at 11:25 pm#227405

Blocked

Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 02 2010,14:21)

As [is] the earthy, such [are] also the earthy; and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] also the heavenly;

Hi Shimmer,

Are angels “heavenly”? Why would Jesus be the only SPIRIT who has a body? Does that make sense?

mike

December 2, 2010 at 11:40 pm#227406

Blocked

JA,

I'm with Gene on this one. Scripture never says that God's intention for man was for him to someday have a “spiritual body”.

God's just wanted to created us for His own pleasure. And there's nothing to say Adam wouldn't have lived forever as a human being had he not sinned. You might be right that eventually he would have had to eat from the tree of life, and you might be wrong.

If God wanted to, he could have let him live for billions of years without ever eating from that tree, right?

And the reason Jesus had to be made as a human?

Hebrews 2:14 NIV
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—

Romans 8:3 NIV
For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,

Jesus had to come as flesh to accomplish God's goals BECAUSE THE CHILDREN WERE FLESH. Jesus was the “pathfinder” for us. He had to be tempted as those with flesh are. He had to die as those with flesh do. Why? So by means of the power of his God he could defeat death which has claimed victory over mankind since their beginning. He was the first man to defeat death and live again, thereby paving the road for the rest of us.

There's much more involved, but this is enough for now.

mike

December 2, 2010 at 11:41 pm#227407

Blocked

Hey All,

I don't claim to know this stuff for a fact. But can't ANYONE out there show me the fault in this logic:

If more than one being exist, there has to be something that designates “this space” as being occupied by one of those beings, and “that space” as being occupied by the other, right?

Listen carefully and show me where my logic is faulty here:

If there is not something that separates one being from the other, then there aren't really two beings, but only one.

Can anyone at all refute this logic? If you can, please show me what I'm missing.

peace and love,
mike

December 2, 2010 at 11:47 pm#227409

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 03 2010,16:41)

Hey All,

I don't claim to know this stuff for a fact. But can't ANYONE out there show me the fault in this logic:

If more than one being exist, there has to be something that designates “this space” as being occupied by one of those beings, and “that space” as being occupied by the other, right?

Listen carefully and show me where my logic is faulty here:

If there is not something that separates one being from the other, then there aren't really two beings, but only one.

Can anyone at all refute this logic? If you can, please show me what I'm missing.

peace and love,
mike

Mike

Now pay attention ANGELS came to present this could ???many,(200,000,000)
and now Satan came also,and were did he came from ?
AND ALL THAT BEFORE GOD,right
that s many spirits in my book is it not???

Job 1:6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.
Job 1:7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”
Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it.”

Pierre

December 3, 2010 at 12:46 am#227420

Blocked

Yes Pierre,

There are many angels. How does that answer my question? Do you thing I'm saying there are only two beings in all of existence?

mike

December 3, 2010 at 1:39 am#227429

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 03 2010,17:46)

Yes Pierre,

There are many angels. How does that answer my question? Do you thing I'm saying there are only two beings in all of existence?

mike

Mike

that scripture says that there are many beings in heaven ,and that mean not just two but millions of them.

and they moving around does that not shows that they are not connected to each other,but totally separated.

Pierre

December 3, 2010 at 2:07 am#227436

Blocked

Yes Pierre,

That is what I've been saying all along. What you misunderstood is that if there are even TWO beings in existence, then they must have “bodies” that separate one from the other. This is the point I'm trying to drive home.

Now, since there are billions of beings in existence, then there must be billions of bodies separating them from each other.

mike

December 3, 2010 at 6:01 am#227451

Participant

Mike,
You are still thinking in flesh.
A Spirit does not require independent space…because it doesn't exist in 'space' (Three dimensions).

A Spirit is above 'space' and therefore can exist in many places in different times, and in many places at the same time, and in all places at all times…omnipresent.

Mike,
You exist as a body in one moment of time in one physical position, in one 'space'…three dimensions.
Then, in a single moment in time (forth dimension) your body moves to a very slighty different position.
Increase the speed of time, faster time 'moments' more fluid movement but robotic. Move to 'Real time'…normal movement…
This is …a single place in a single point in time.

Now, how can you develop this…can your body be made to be in more than one place in the same time…impossible…you would need two or more of your own body, one for each place…but the Spirit…the Spirit can be in multiples places at the same time…Jesus could talk to the whole world at the same time, his spirit could be everywhere. He could manifest himself in body from Spirit everywhere…'He was seen in many places', how did Jesus 'appear' in many places at once…he certainly didn't do a 'Superman flapping cape thing', a Superdash…because even that would have taken time…like, how can Santa Clause delivery presents, eat mince pies, drink a draught of Jack Daniels (And still be under the drink-drive alcohol limit?), have carnal knowledge of the household's wife, and still get everything done before 6:00am?
No, he could only do that from a higher dimension, in the Spirit…as it were…there's a joke in there somewhere…!
Ok, a little dramatic, tuh! Fancy a Spirit drinking …a spirit….get outa here, he'd be 'all over the place… everywhere'!!!

December 3, 2010 at 6:13 am#227453

Lightenup

Participant

JA,
You consider demons, evil spirits, right? They certainly are not everywhere. Spirits are not omnipresent, where do you get that? The legion of demon spirits possessed the man but not the pigs and then possessed the pigs but not the man because Jesus cast them out of the man and allowed them to enter the herd of pigs. Obviously they were not everywhere, thank God!

Quote

Fancy a Spirit drinking …a spirit….get outa here!!

December 3, 2010 at 6:16 am#227454

Participant

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 03 2010,23:01)

Mike,
You are still thinking in flesh.
A Spirit does not require independent space…because it doesn't exist in 'space' (Three dimensions).

A Spirit is above 'space' and therefore can exist in many places in different times, and in many places at the same time, and in all places at all times…omnipresent.

the discussion is not what kind of form or body,but that they are separated individuals,

and so have movement of there own,wen a angel can kill 185000 people in one night ,what does it tell you ,??

there are many things we do not know,in creation but the faith remain the same and the requirements are still the same ,all the rest is of little importance,and especially if you will come to lose your live because you are without faith.

Pierre

December 3, 2010 at 10:06 am#227459

Participant

Kathi,

Again, mistaken….there are different 'Heavens', dimensions…
Fallen Angels, Demons, occupy the lowest heavens because they are still Spirits.
The lowest heavens are still above earthly dimensions, which contain the physical world.

How many times should i diagram this out. Does anyone even begin to understand basic physics?

Above the fourth dimension (…space and time where all moving physical elements exist, the universe, man, everything physical, visible or invisibe elements) is the fifth dimension.

In the fifth dimension, physical properties cannot exist…because the 'intelligence', the Spirit, can be in ANY SINGLE PLACE at ANY ONE MOMENT in TIME (The demons were in the man…it also shows…Mikeboll, that MANY demons occupied the SAME 'Space' in the man…how big was this man then and it also shows that the 100 or so demons had very little power as even with the number of them they only made the man so-so strong???)
In one moment, the whole 'legion' were transfered into the pigs…how? Did they climb out of the man, walk over to the pigs and say, 'excuse me, do you mind? Where shall i enter you'… And thenthe pigs went mad…Quite clearly, Angel demonic spirits don't gel well with Animal spirit….
And where did the demons go after leaving the pigs? Back to the fifth heavens and bound in 'ethereal chains in ethereal prison'

Then, the sixth dimension…the Spirit can be in MANY PLACES At the SAME TIME…Jesus was seen in many places (Alledgedly) at the same time. How?

And the Seventh Heaven…The Spirit can be in ALL Places AT ALL TIMES….guess whose abode that is?

Please can everyone understand this.
Please write it in your own way so you understand:

…4th Dimension, Normal 'earthly life space…and time'. A body in normal motion, normal existence.

5th Dimension, Spirit realm, lowest level…the Spirit can be in ANY ONE PLACE at ANY ONE Time, and can create a body in that one place….then, '''instantly''' shed/dematerialise the body and appear in a completely different place and materialise another body there…appear to move the same body…but it's not…it's a different materialised body.

Jesus is the new creation. When he materialises his body, it will be the same body he had before, every time…recogniseable to all. The Angels currently materialise nondescript human bodies in pure white outfits (Note that the outfits are only contemporary to the time. Today they would possibly appear as well dressed suited men…'Men in White'…) to become visible.

Jesus dematerialised his body and went 'up' into the clouds…and he will materialise in like fashion…from the Sixthe dimensions. Why…?
So that ALL EYES will behold him 'at the same time'…

If anyone still cannot understand this then please 'pm' me. Thank you.

December 3, 2010 at 10:15 am#227460