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lets go back to the topic
so now we know that everything that God has created has a body either physically or spiritual or other
I agree with that
PIERRE
Terricca……………No we don;t know that , A Spirit is (NOT) a BODY, to believe a Spirit is a “BODY” is misrepresenting the truth of scriptures. A Spirit is what is (IN) A BODY God who is a SPIRIT was truly (IN) Jesus He was in Him not as a Body of any kind but as Spirit he existed in Jesus God was truly in Jesus first person and spoke through him It was not Jesus that said “destory this temple and in three days I shall raise it up”, that was God first person saying that through Jesus' mouth .
Pierre the reason there is so much confusion about Spirit is because people do not understand what spirit is , It never was a Body of any kind and never will be either it is what is in a body . Think about this Pierre.
peace and love………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 16 2011,08:50) Terricca……………No we don;t know that , A Spirit is (NOT) a BODY, to believe a Spirit is a “BODY” is misrepresenting the truth of scriptures. A Spirit is what is (IN) A BODY God who is a SPIRIT was truly (IN) Jesus He was in Him not as a Body of any kind but as Spirit he existed in Jesus God was truly in Jesus first person and spoke through him It was not Jesus that said “destory this temple and in three days I shall raise it up”, that was God first person saying that through Jesus' mouth . Pierre the reason there is so much confusion about Spirit is because people do not understand what spirit is , It never was a Body of any kind and never will be either it is what is in a body . Think about this Pierre.
peace and love………………………………gene
genespirit does not always mean the same thing ,I have told you that before ,
and so you are confused in seeing the difference '
you see ;my spirit is me this mean that it is me a living soul,so i have a body
when i say my office spirit ,this mean the the politics ,the culture of the company i work for ,it is not a living being but a living entity in the way that it is made and comes out of the will of the board of directors who have the power to make there will heard.no body
now if i read a book if asked i will tell you the spirit =essence of the book what the writer has put and developed in the story,this again is not a spirit being,no body
Rev 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come
For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”but spirit angels are beings so they have a body (spiritual)heavenly body.
Christ is a being so he has a body a heavenly body (no one knows what a heavenly body is made of so that s why we just call it heavenly body or spiritual body)
do you understand this ?
Pierre
Pierre,
I'm glad that I read your response before I posted the same thing.
Gene, there is the “spirit” that comes from God and animates all living things and goes back to God when we die. Yes, there IS that kind of spirit.
But there are also “spirits” who ARE angels and demons. In this case it means “a spirit BEING”. So an angel is a complete BEING made of nothing but spirit, and therefore is a “SPIRIT BEING”, often called simply “spirits”.
And that is what Paul means when he says all angels are ministering “spirits”. Gene, you don't have to add words to the scripture because you don't understand. Instead, you must form YOUR understanding around the scriptures. And if Paul is calling angels “spirits”, and you and I KNOW he's not talking about the kind of spirit like one of God's seven spirits, then he MUST be calling angels “spirits” meaning “spirit BEINGS”.
Much like we can call a human BEING simply a “human”.
Does this make sense to you?
Also, what are angels' bodies made of? You haven't answered that question yet.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 16 2011,13:23) Pierre, I'm glad that I read your response before I posted the same thing.
Gene, there is the “spirit” that comes from God and animates all living things and goes back to God when we die. Yes, there IS that kind of spirit.
But there are also “spirits” who ARE angels and demons. In this case it means “a spirit BEING”. So an angel is a complete BEING made of nothing but spirit, and therefore is a “SPIRIT BEING”, often called simply “spirits”.
And that is what Paul means when he says all angels are ministering “spirits”. Gene, you don't have to add words to the scripture because you don't understand. Instead, you must form YOUR understanding around the scriptures. And if Paul is calling angels “spirits”, and you and I KNOW he's not talking about the kind of spirit like one of God's seven spirits, then he MUST be calling angels “spirits” meaning “spirit BEINGS”.
Much like we can call a human BEING simply a “human”.
Does this make sense to you?
Also, what are angels' bodies made of? You haven't answered that question yet.
mike
Mike ……..This is why people like you are so confused about what a Spirit is and therefore think all kinds of false assumptions. No where in scripture does it say a Spirit is a Body or for that matter is a Being, Spirits are what is (IN) Beings who have Bodies. This is why you believe GOD is a Being when in fact he is not a being He is a Spirit that can exist in beings as He was in the being Jesus and is in all beings who have his Spirit in them. Why do you think it say “THAT GOD MAY BE (IN) ALL AND (THOUGH) ALL” for, do you think that scripture is just Gibberish and does not mean what it is saying?Your false beliefs also change Satan from a adversarial Spirit (intellect)that can and does exist (IN) anyone to a real Person or being with a spirit body, that also is a false assumption because Spirits do not have bodies and you have never seem a spirit “body” becasue they do not exist.
Where it say God makes His angles Spirits, that is not talking about a body it is talking about the Spirit that are (IN) the angles. God Makes them and send them out into the world.Not as Spirits Being but as Beings with the Spirits He has put (IN) them. And they serve those Spirits that are (IN) them> Just as You serve the Spirits that are (IN) You.
“Now if the (SPIRIT) that was (IN) Jesus be (IN) you (IT) notice not a person but a IT, will (ALSO) quicken Your (DEAD BODY)”. Mike the word Quicken means Bring back to LIFE , now what is being Brought Back to Life Mike, was it a Spirit or a (DEAD BODY) that was brought back to life by the “Quickening” Spirit.
Mike SpIrit has a (SIMPLE) meaning it is easy to understand if you clean out the wrong information you have recieved in you past. “Mystery Religion” like so many other things as made it confusing when it is not. IMO
peace and love……………………………………gene
Yes Gene,
God is most defininitely a “BEING”. The Name YHWH means “I shall prove to BE what I shall prove to BE”. Any living thing that can be said to “BE” is by definition a “BEING”.
But I await an answer to my question…………..STILL.
Gene, WHAT are the BODIES of the angels made of?
mike
I have a question, can someone answer?
When Jesus died his spirit went to God the Father.
But when raised from the dead, he was raised in a spirit body.
When the spirit of Christ was with God in heaven, did the spirit have a body?
If yes then why was it raised into another body?
If no then what?
Shimmer! When I read those Scriptures in 1 Corinth. 15 I see two things.
First that there a natural bodies and that there a Spiritual bodies. We have to use our intellents to see what exactly is Paul talking about. he says that those bodies are two different kinds. Not one. That shows me the different bodies. Also it says that there are heavenly bodies. What is in Heaven? We do know that Angels are in Heaven. So Angels have bodies. To deny that is to deny Scriptures.
The question you asked is if Jesus who is in Heaven seated at the right hand of God, does have a Spiritual body or Heavenly Body.
Some will say that He was resurrected in a natural body or flesh body. I don't believe Scriptures tell us so. He appeared to those who doubted that Jesus rose from the death, so He appeared to them in His former body to show them. The doors were shut, and He simple appeared. He could go through walls. I did go to the internet for some answers and I put up a article did you read it? If I find it I will put it up again….
Here are the Scriptures again to show you and others who don't believe what I am saying.1Cr 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Cr 15:48 As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly.
1Cr 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Since Jesus was a human being, He also bears the image of a Human being, but then He became heavenly again, after His resurrection from the death.
Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
This Scripture tells us also that Jesus did have a glory with His Father before the world was. And He then went back to that glory He had before…. Ask yourself what Jesus is right now, seated at the right hand of His Father? We know that no flesh and blood can be in heaven seated with God or heavenly Father…
1Cr 15:50 ¶ Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Peace and Love Irene
Quote (shimmer @ July 17 2011,17:08) I have a question, can someone answer? When Jesus died his spirit went to God the Father.
But when raised from the dead, he was raised in a spirit body.
When the spirit of Christ was with God in heaven, did the spirit have a body?
If yes then why was it raised into another body?
If no then what?
shimmerChrist is special ,after all he is the son of God we are not;
Jn 13:32 If God is glorified in him, God will glorify the Son in himself, and will glorify him at once
Jn 10:17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again.
Jn 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”if you listen to what Christ is saying is that he lay down HIS LIFE what that mean ?
is live means the dead of the body ?
or the dead of the soul ?or live = dead of body and soul,
Jesus says he ad received the authority to take his live back,
scriptures says the a body was prepared for him ,(Jesus)
so what did Christ give up?
Christ preexisted so what did he give up other than the body that was prepared for him to give up.
live for men is in the blood ,we can lose many parts of our body but we can not lose to much blood or we die,
but in a spirit being live is not in the blood ,
but Christ came to live among us has a men to save us ,he did this out of love ,
and so he was a real man knowing that he came to do the work of his father saving men from sin =given up his man
like live ,and so he did and took back hid spiritual live back,but came to earth and took a flesh body to show himself to his disciples to prove that all what he had said to them was true and so glorified his father who had made it written trough the prophets.
now ; all what as been created has a body ,think,if it is not existing then it as no form or a body of a sort,some only ware a body or form for a short time like the lightening,would you say that lightening that you see does not have a body or form ?how then can you see it ?,or some have longer lives like the sun,
but what we can not understand or see this does not mean that they are not there,but all thing are separated creation so there must be some thing that contain anything that is created,
I do not know what type of structure the body of Christ is made of it just says spiritual;but this is the form it take wen you are called to with in the presence of God.not in God ,but within Gods circle,Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ July 14 2011,21:29) All lets go back to the topic
so now we know that everything that God has created has a body either physically or spiritual or other
I agree with that
PIERRE
Yes Pierre,To EVERY seed God gave a body to His liking. Not just to “some seeds”.
Resolved Question
Christians, could Jesus take his physical body back at resurrection without invalidating his sacrifice?
Jesus said that his body would be given in sacrifice for our sins.
“And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, 'This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.'” — Luke 22:19, New International Version
“And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” — Hebrews 10:10, New International Version
Additional Details
Not just his death, but the body that underwent the death, was the sacrifice.
“For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, 'This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.'” — 1 Corinthians 11:23, 24, New International Version
Jesus specifies his “body,” which is “for” us.
Certainly not. You cannot take back what you gave without invalidating the transaction.
Notice too the scriptural support for this, how Jesus' disciples could not recognize the resurrected, materialized Jesus Christ: Luke 24:16 and John 20:14.
Trinitarians may claim this is due to an act of divine intervention! However, far from being an act of divine intervention of preventing people from recognizing him (an act of deception), the fact that the two disciples: Cleopas and friend of Luke 24:16 and Mary Magdalene of John 20:14 did not at first recognize him demonstrates that Jesus had sacrificed his body, and had not taken it back.
Illustration: If a man pays a debt for a friend but then promptly takes back the payment, obviously the debt continues. Likewise, if, when he was resurrected, Jesus had taken back his human body of flesh and blood, which had been given in sacrifice to pay the ransom price, what effect would that have had on the provision he was making to relieve faithful persons of the debt of sin?[1] The result would be the same, and would result in a soteriological cancellation. Thus, it is of extreme importance to us that Jesus not return with the same body he sacrificed. Therefore we can be thankful that his disciples who knew him did not at first recognize him, harmonizing with Jesus having a similar yet different body.
As one source reasons:
It is true that Jesus appeared in physical form to his disciples after his resurrection. But on certain occasions, why did they not at first recognize him? (Luke 24:15-32; John 20:14-16) On one occasion, for the benefit of Thomas, Jesus appeared with the physical evidence of nail prints in his hands and a spear wound in his side. But how was it possible on that occasion for him suddenly to appear in their midst even though the doors were locked? (John 20:26, 27) Jesus evidently materialized bodies on these occasions, as angels had done in the past when appearing to humans. Disposing of Jesus’ physical body at the time of his resurrection presented no problem for God. Interestingly, although the physical body was not left by God in the tomb (evidently to strengthen the conviction of the disciples that Jesus had actually been raised [in spirit per 1 Pet. 3:18]), the linen cloths in which it had been wrapped were left there; yet, the resurrected Jesus always appeared fully clothed.—John 20:6, 7.[1]All this explanation is considered the ransom for us, so we will live forever…
Peace IreneEdited by Pastry on July 15 2011,00:35
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 17 2011,21:16) Quote (terraricca @ July 14 2011,21:29) All lets go back to the topic
so now we know that everything that God has created has a body either physically or spiritual or other
I agree with that
PIERRE
Yes Pierre,To EVERY seed God gave a body to His liking. Not just to “some seeds”.
mike Thanks Irene and Terra. Interesting points.
I made a mistake in the question though.
I missed an important part which i'll bold below.
It should have said:
When Jesus died his spirit went to God the Father.
But when raised from the dead, he was raised in a spirit body.
When the spirit of Christ was with God in heaven – When the body of Christ was Dead in the grave – did the spirit have a body?
If yes then why was it raised into another body?
If no then what?
*See the missing part? So does that change your answer, or still the same?
Thanks.
Shimmer! The way I understand it, when Jesus died, He went to Heaven as A Spiritual Body. The flesh body God disposed of it, like He did with Moses. The Spirit which was present in the flesh body is the same Spirit that He had before He became a man. John 17:5….Just like we will be, that is why we also know who we were here on earth. Jesus knew where He came from and with what glory He had with His Father. The glory He is speaking of is the Spirit Being He was, and He is again. He was changed into Hos Spiritual Body in an twinkle of an eye. Just like those that are present here on earth, when Jesus returns.
1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Peace and Love Irene
Shimmer……….When Jesus' body died He was truly completely dead, his thought perished just like ours do when we Die. Jesus' Body scripture say did no see corruption but was resurected and this is our hope it is the resurrection with bodies from the dead When Jesus cried out “My God , My God, Has thou forsaken me” he was not joking he fully understood he was about to completely die and would stay dead not be transform into any other body. His own word were I was (dead) and am alive for evermore People don't want to truly believe he was truly dead, and he would have remained dead for ever if God did not resurrect his body and add spirit back into it. Its just that simple, But Mystery Religion has all kinds of way to twist that simple fact up, to conform to its false teachings. Shimmer don't be decieved Jesus was truly dead, completely dead, would never live again with out his resurrected BODY
peace and love………………………………….gene
shimmer
Quote *See the missing part? So does that change your answer, or still the same? Thanks.
when did Christ body died ? at the cross right ,how long the body as to be dead to be dead ?one second ,one minute,one hour,one day ?to me it is when the last breath is given,whatever time that takes ,so then wen is the spirit or soul of Christ goes ?
he definitely do not stay in the dead body,so it return to God ,but did he ,because Christ says that he had not gone to the father yet to Magdalene;
Jn 20:17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father.so his work was not yet done on earth but he was no longer a man remember that the man died on the cross,
Pierre
Shimmer! Want to add something. Some get confused to why the body has to stay dead. I recommend you read that article. It explains it really good. His body is the sacrifice, and to take it back, would void that sacrifice. When one gives a ransom, you can't take it back, can you….. Otherwise the ransom is not a ransom at all.
It is according to Scriptures in Mark 10:45 and 1 Tim. 2:6
Read also John 20, the doors were shut when Jesus appeared. Maria Magdalene did not recognize Him at first and thought He was the Gardner. Does that not make you wonder? His Human body could not do what He did.
Peace and Love Irene
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