Do spirits have bodies?

[Istari]

Terraricca,

Excellent post.

Your last post really summed up everything about you.

Thank you for your exciting opinions concerning the SPIRITUAL BODY.

[terraricca]

Quote (Istari @ July 14 2011,14:57)

Terraricca, Excellent post. Your last post really summed up everything about you. Thank you for your exciting opinions concerning the SPIRITUAL BODY.

again devious

[Istari]

Oops, here comes reality
Oops, not Mr Popularity
He's here to bring clarity
Not seeking for vanity
He showed faith, hope and charity
It didn't save him from calamity
They made fun, thought it Hilarity
Said this man talks pure fantasy
Yes, the saviour of humanity
Was hurt by their vulgarity

They laugh and they scorn
At the truth that was borne
But he resisted sinful urges
Even whips, chains and scourges

He was judged and found guilty
By witness's that were filthy
But when they hung him on a tree
His job was done: set Man free!

He was buried in a grave three days
Then Rose again, scriptures says
Was it him changed in several ways?
As many yeses as there are neys!

It's said His BODY was SPIRITUAL
And those words are Pivotal
Because there's a certain individual
Who says 'That isn't Scriptural'!!

“There's no resurrection”, says the Sadducee!
That's very unfortunate and Sad You See…
“We're already saved”, says the Pharisee!
Hmm… Not as Far as I See..

Now hear this reality:
It's about Sacrificiality
Put off Sin, put on Spirituality
Righteous, Holy, in totality
Body and Spirit – both in Parity
Enabled in God – True unanimity!

[Istari]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 13 2011,15:11)

Quote (Istari @ July 12 2011,21:09) Ok, much more to say from the little I have said…       That post was exactly 1833 words, dude!  And that's your “little” post?       Istari, you talk too much.

Mikeboll,
That was EXACTLY 16 word (Not including the content of the quote, numbers, expansion of apostrophed words nor the footer text)

Mikeboll – you talk too much!

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Istari @ July 12 2011,23:33)

Yes, and I can guess who those 5 reports are from too.

I think you would be VERY surprised to know who asked for you to be banned 2 or 3 weeks ago.  But “Report Posts” are personal like pm's, and I am not allowed to share all the info with you.

Quote (Istari @ July 12 2011,23:33)

It's strange though that no report was made to me about the reports.

Ah, but I have let you know when people were reporting your posts, right?  In fact, I sent you a pm telling to you cool it less than a week ago, didn't I?

Did I not explain to you in that pm that I was painfully aware that only one tile would ban you, and since I didn't necessarily want you off the site, I had been letting much of your rule breaking go on unpunished?

Isn't this what I told you personally less than a week ago, Istari?  Or am I lying?

But letting the stuff go has come to an end.  It's not fair to make the people here who DO obey the rules of the site suffer just because you already have four tiles and so “cannot” be punished.  Is it?

I've warned you at least three times on this very thread about KNOWINGLY posting LIES about others' beliefs.  That is breaking the rules of Heaven Net.  I personally warned you last night – and even gave you the option to post a correction and solve the problem.

Istari, you have a big problem with anyone who doesn't see things your way.  Instead of SCRIPTUALLY defending your belief and trying to lead others to what you consider to be the truth, you just start lambasting anyone who dares to disagree with you in the first place.  As if slinging rude and crass personal insults at another poster somehow makes YOUR point more credible.  

But worse than that, you have absolutely no respect for the authority of this site.  You refuse to follow the rules, even when personally requested to do so by one of the moderators.

Here are the rules of HN that you FREQUENTLY break:

2.  Posting false/inaccurate or defamatory posts in the forums.

3.  Being abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, or threatening to others in the forums or PMs.

5.  Posting inaccurate statements about a person in the forums.

Last night, for about the 100th time, you KNOWINGLY posted an inaccurate statement about someone on HN.  You have had ample opportunity to fix the problem, since you have authored many posts since I asked for a post to correct the lie you told about me and my beliefs.

I'm sorry dude, I've put up with all I'm going to.  Perhaps you can fall on the mercy of t8 again.  But it's time I do my job here concerning you.

I wish you all the best,
mike

[Istari]

Quote

*Quote* (Istari @ July 13 2011,10:16)How is it said that I am personal yet i post many many things of scriptural nature WHICH ARE IGNORED. Then SOMEONE SAYS I HAVE NOT ANSWERED THEM. they ignore what I say of Scriptures saying only that I insulted them And yet Terraricca posts against me saying NOTHING BUT 'You know nothing' with no content of value – yet that seems fine… Irene just keeps posting the SAME VERSES OVER AND OVER SEEMINGLY OBLIVIOUS OF ANY EXPLANATION as if simply posting a verse over and over and over provides an explanation. When I ask for clarification and definition I am abused saying they already posted a verse (yes, the same verse without explanation nor reasoning) They neither respond to requests for information nor offer any but just post abuse saying I know nothing yet never appearing to read what I explain to them… Mikeboll says he doesn't read what I write saying I write too much (yes, too much truth for him to refute so he shuts his eyes and IGNORES IT so he has a reason to say 'I never saw the truth that you wrote cos you write too much' yet … Yet… He will read whole swathes of WJ and KJ posts and Shimmers links and netBible references and FOREFather writings not to mention masses of chapters from Scriptures. He is ONLY LOOKING to read what he BELIEVES. this is not the way that someone learns… So the ANTAGONISM is rife on ALL SIDES yet MIKEBOLL NEVER GETS A TILE..  What gives..?

I received this as a WARNING for some reason.

Can someone point out EXACTLY where the abuse is in this post.
Expressing and presenting a summation is hardly abuse!

[mikeboll64]

When I just sent you your VERY LAST chance to post a retraction or correction, I just hit the “Warn” button on a random post of yours. The warning is the words I clearly posted in the pm, and has nothing to do with the words of your post.

In other words, I just picked ANY old post of yours, and hit the warn button to make sure you knew your time on this site is about to end if you don't make the correction I told you to make.

[terraricca]

Quote (Istari @ July 14 2011,16:49)

Quote *Quote* (Istari @ July 13 2011,10:16)How is it said that I am personal yet i post many many things of scriptural nature WHICH ARE IGNORED. Then SOMEONE SAYS I HAVE NOT ANSWERED THEM. they ignore what I say of Scriptures saying only that I insulted them And yet Terraricca posts against me saying NOTHING BUT 'You know nothing' with no content of value – yet that seems fine… Irene just keeps posting the SAME VERSES OVER AND OVER SEEMINGLY OBLIVIOUS OF ANY EXPLANATION as if simply posting a verse over and over and over provides an explanation. When I ask for clarification and definition I am abused saying they already posted a verse (yes, the same verse without explanation nor reasoning) They neither respond to requests for information nor offer any but just post abuse saying I know nothing yet never appearing to read what I explain to them… Mikeboll says he doesn't read what I write saying I write too much (yes, too much truth for him to refute so he shuts his eyes and IGNORES IT so he has a reason to say 'I never saw the truth that you wrote cos you write too much' yet … Yet… He will read whole swathes of WJ and KJ posts and Shimmers links and netBible references and FOREFather writings not to mention masses of chapters from Scriptures. He is ONLY LOOKING to read what he BELIEVES. this is not the way that someone learns… So the ANTAGONISM is rife on ALL SIDES yet MIKEBOLL NEVER GETS A TILE..  What gives..? I received this as a WARNING for some reason. Can someone point out EXACTLY where the abuse is in this post. Expressing and presenting a summation is hardly abuse!

istari

if i was the moderator ,you would have been banned long ago ,Mike as been very lenient ,leniency you do not deserved,

so good by hoping you improve in your future live

Pierre

[shimmer]

Quote (Pastry @ July 14 2011,01:02)

Quote (shimmer @ July 13 2011,13:52) Irene, a ransom and the denial of the bodily resurrection of Christ is nothing but the text of the JWs. And you say you didn't learn it from them? And Mike what are you saying? I agree with Istari because I AGREE. Don't think I would agree with someone just because I like them. I'm not that stupid. Shimmer!  The JW's have nothing to do with the ransom… I don't think you understand what the ransom is.  It is according to Scriptures 1Ti 2:6   Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.   Mar 10:45   For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.   Jesus body had to stay dead in order for the ransom to be true.   God took away Moses body, and He did IMO took away Jesus body too.  Also when I look at the Scriptures in 1Cr 15:42   So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:   1Cr 15:43   It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:   1Cr 15:44   It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.   There is no Scripture that says Jesus was resurrected in His earthly body, first.  There is no in-between.  First the natural body and then the Spiritual body….. That is what it says…..not JW's word or mine, but Scriptures….. Shimmer, you can say whatever you want to, but I am not stupid either….

Irene, next you'll be like the Muslims who say Jesus didn't really die – someone else died in his place. Can you tell me what the difference is, if you say Jesus wasn't really risen from the dead, he was a spirit only? Isn't this what Gnostics believed too? I'll have to look into that.

[Pastry]

Quote (shimmer @ July 14 2011,13:32)

Quote (Pastry @ July 14 2011,01:02) Quote (shimmer @ July 13 2011,13:52) Irene, a ransom and the denial of the bodily resurrection of Christ is nothing but the text of the JWs. And you say you didn't learn it from them? And Mike what are you saying? I agree with Istari because I AGREE. Don't think I would agree with someone just because I like them. I'm not that stupid. Shimmer!  The JW's have nothing to do with the ransom… I don't think you understand what the ransom is.  It is according to Scriptures 1Ti 2:6   Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.   Mar 10:45   For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.   Jesus body had to stay dead in order for the ransom to be true.   God took away Moses body, and He did IMO took away Jesus body too.  Also when I look at the Scriptures in 1Cr 15:42   So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:   1Cr 15:43   It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:   1Cr 15:44   It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.   There is no Scripture that says Jesus was resurrected in His earthly body, first.  There is no in-between.  First the natural body and then the Spiritual body….. That is what it says…..not JW's word or mine, but Scriptures….. Shimmer, you can say whatever you want to, but I am not stupid either…. Irene, next you'll be like the Muslims who say Jesus didn't really die – someone else died in his place.  Can you tell me what the difference is, if you say Jesus wasn't really risen from the dead, he was a spirit only? Isn't this what Gnostics believed too? I'll have to look into that.

Shimmer!  Why do you accuse me of believing like the Mormon/  I BELIEVE THAT JESUS DIED.  HIS HUMAN BODY….ALL OF IT….AND HE WENT BACK WHERE HE WAS BEFORE AS A spirit being….
Jhn 17:4   I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.  

Jhn 17:5   And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.  

i gave you the reason why i think his human body had to stay in the grave. Here is an article from the Internet, anther reason…

Resolved Question

Christians, could Jesus take his physical body back at resurrection without invalidating his sacrifice?

Jesus said that his body would be given in sacrifice for our sins.

“And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, 'This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.'” — Luke 22:19, New International Version

“And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” — Hebrews 10:10, New International Version

Additional Details

Not just his death, but the body that underwent the death, was the sacrifice.

“For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, 'This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.'” — 1 Corinthians 11:23, 24, New International Version

Jesus specifies his “body,” which is “for” us.

Certainly not. You cannot take back what you gave without invalidating the transaction.

Notice too the scriptural support for this, how Jesus' disciples could not recognize the resurrected, materialized Jesus Christ: Luke 24:16 and John 20:14.

Trinitarians may claim this is due to an act of divine intervention! However, far from being an act of divine intervention of preventing people from recognizing him (an act of deception), the fact that the two disciples: Cleopas and friend of Luke 24:16 and Mary Magdalene of John 20:14 did not at first recognize him demonstrates that Jesus had sacrificed his body, and had not taken it back.

Illustration: If a man pays a debt for a friend but then promptly takes back the payment, obviously the debt continues. Likewise, if, when he was resurrected, Jesus had taken back his human body of flesh and blood, which had been given in sacrifice to pay the ransom price, what effect would that have had on the provision he was making to relieve faithful persons of the debt of sin?[1] The result would be the same, and would result in a soteriological cancellation. Thus, it is of extreme importance to us that Jesus not return with the same body he sacrificed. Therefore we can be thankful that his disciples who knew him did not at first recognize him, harmonizing with Jesus having a similar yet different body.

As one source reasons:
It is true that Jesus appeared in physical form to his disciples after his resurrection. But on certain occasions, why did they not at first recognize him? (Luke 24:15-32; John 20:14-16) On one occasion, for the benefit of Thomas, Jesus appeared with the physical evidence of nail prints in his hands and a spear wound in his side. But how was it possible on that occasion for him suddenly to appear in their midst even though the doors were locked? (John 20:26, 27) Jesus evidently materialized bodies on these occasions, as angels had done in the past when appearing to humans. Disposing of Jesus’ physical body at the time of his resurrection presented no problem for God. Interestingly, although the physical body was not left by God in the tomb (evidently to strengthen the conviction of the disciples that Jesus had actually been raised [in spirit per 1 Pet. 3:18]), the linen cloths in which it had been wrapped were left there; yet, the resurrected Jesus always appeared fully clothed.—John 20:6, 7.[1]

All this explanation is considered the ransom for us, so we will live forever…
Peace Irene

[shimmer]

Irene, Someone just had me mention, that the topic of the thread is 'Do spirits have bodies' and pointed out, that in the post above, you quoted…

Jesus evidently materialized bodies on these occasions, as angels had done in the past when appearing to humans.

So therefore must be admitting that Angels don't have bodies.

(I'm so tired of this thread!)

As for the rest, ok. I'll let it drop:)…

[shimmer]

Quote (Istari @ July 14 2011,10:24)

Oops, here comes reality Oops, not Mr Popularity He's here to bring clarity Not seeking for vanity He showed faith, hope and charity It didn't save him from calamity They made fun, thought it Hilarity Said this man talks pure fantasy Yes, the saviour of humanity Was hurt by their vulgarity They laugh and they scorn At the truth that was borne But he resisted sinful urges Even whips, chains and scourges He was judged and found guilty By witness's that were filthy But when they hung him on a tree His job was done: set Man free! He was buried in a grave three days Then Rose again, scriptures says Was it him changed in several ways? As many yeses as there are neys! It's said His BODY was SPIRITUAL And those words are Pivotal Because there's a certain individual Who says 'That isn't Scriptural'!! “There's no resurrection”, says the Sadducee! That's very unfortunate and Sad You See… “We're already saved”, says the Pharisee! Hmm… Not as Far as I See.. Now hear this reality: It's about Sacrificiality Put off Sin, put on Spirituality Righteous, Holy, in totality Body and Spirit – both in Parity Enabled in God – True unanimity!

I like that!

[Pastry]

Quote (shimmer @ July 14 2011,21:33)

Irene, Someone just had me mention, that the topic of the thread is 'Do spirits have bodies' and pointed out, that in the post above, you quoted… Jesus evidently materialized bodies on these occasions, as angels had done in the past when appearing to humans. So therefore must be admitting that Angels don't have bodies. (I'm so tired of this thread!) As for the rest, ok. I'll let it drop:)…

Shimmer! the article I posted is from the Internet. I guess I am not the only one that knows with what body Jesus resurrected. Be glad to drop it……

[GeneBalthrop]

Mike…………..> so now your kicking Istari off becasue he admittedly disagrees with your false belief that Spirit have Bodies, well that is a good way to win right? As far as insulting a person you are the leader of the pack here, with your stupid Icon and insulting language, you continually belittle others who disagree with you and treat then with disrespect, Have you given yourself any tiles lately, for your insulting and abusive language you use here , has the word hypocrite ever crossed your mind? Look we have all at times crossed the line and you and I and nearly all here have at times. If you kick Istari off you are doing a disservice Here i believe , it's one thing to tell him to soften his language a little but it's another to kick him off especially when you do the same. IMO

peace and love………………………………….gene

[Pastry]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 15 2011,00:48)

Mike…………..> so now your kicking Istari off becasue he admittedly disagrees with your false belief that Spirit have Bodies, well that is a good way to win right? As far as insulting a person you are the leader of the pack here,  with your stupid Icon and insulting language, you continually belittle others who disagree with you and treat then with disrespect, Have you given yourself any tiles lately, for your insulting and abusive language you use here , has the word hypocrite ever crossed your mind? Look we have all at times crossed the line and you and I and nearly all here have at times.  If you kick Istari off you are doing a disservice Here i believe , it's one thing to tell him to soften his language a little but it's another to kick him off especially when you do the same. IMO peace and love………………………………….gene

Gene! It is not Mike who banned Istari…. It was He who did it all by Himself. And YOU saying Mike is insulting? When you have said to us over and over again we have the spirit of Anti-Christ because we tell the truth, BY SCRIPTURES….. While you add to them…..
put on your glases maybe you can see better….Peace Irene

[Pastry]

Gene, one more thing, Mike is not the one who can give tiles, that is t8……and 10 other members have complained about Istari's abuse….

[GeneBalthrop]

Irene…………Mike is just as insulting as Istari or anyone else here in my opinion. Just go back and read what he has said to and about others here. As far as i saying anything about Antichrist , i alway say Trinitarians (AND) Preexistence who separates our identity with jesus is Antichrist IMO. Now if the shoe fits wear it. God know you have many, many, many, times post YOU “OPINIONS” Here also. Mike is trying to remove Istari from this site , Just like you and others did with Martian, and ADAM, all people who were giving their honest “OPINIONS” of scriptures with which You and Mike and Pierre disagree with. Don't give me this bull that Mike does not have the power to influence the kicking of Istari off that simply is not true Irene go back and reread what he said. And think about it this time. IMO

[Pastry]

Gene

How many tiles did Istari have?  In fact Mike even send Istari a PM to tell Him to stop the abuse, since He had 4 tiles already. And I didn't remove Adam or Martian either.  You have a tile!!! ! I don't know for what, but if you continue in the same manner then when you got your first tile, and do it over and over again, members will report that abuse.  Mike or any member can report an abuse, it is t8 who then looks at it and decides to give a tile or not….. So you are totally wrong to blame Mike for it or me for Adams and Martians tiles……They all had an opopertunity to stop, when they received the first tile…..

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 15 2011,07:48)

Mike…………..> so now your kicking Istari off becasue he admittedly disagrees with your false belief that Spirit have Bodies, well that is a good way to win right? As far as insulting a person you are the leader of the pack here,  with your stupid Icon and insulting language, you continually belittle others who disagree with you and treat then with disrespect, Have you given yourself any tiles lately, for your insulting and abusive language you use here , has the word hypocrite ever crossed your mind? Look we have all at times crossed the line and you and I and nearly all here have at times.  If you kick Istari off you are doing a disservice Here i believe , it's one thing to tell him to soften his language a little but it's another to kick him off especially when you do the same. IMO peace and love………………………………….gene

gene

istari is bad in all is quotes to me ,and devious in answering ,

but you do not mind you are his supporters ,were do you draw the line ?wen you are targeted?

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Hi Gene,

For every ONE person who blames ME for Istari's bad behavior and the resulting consequences, there are least THREE people patting me on the back.

He posted the warning I gave him, right?  Did you read it Gene?  Istari knows that posting lies about others is against the rules.  I warned him about it before – multiple times on this very thread.  And I gave him the chance to fix it this time too, (although I didn't have to).  He flat out refused to do so.

Refusing to make things right was HIS choice Gene………….not MINE.

So if you're going to be mad at someone about Istari being gone, be mad at HIM.  Because if he had only posted a simple correction like I asked him to, he'd still be here.

Gene, I didn't have to explain ANY of this to you.  It was simply a courtesy, since none of this is your business anyway.

Now…………….weren't you about to tell us all what angels' BODIES are made of?

[Author]

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