Do spirits have bodies?

[Pastry]

Quote (shimmer @ July 12 2011,10:35)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2011,10:34) Quote (terraricca @ July 11 2011,01:47) your questions are all answered in this topic but you only believe in you or the way you see it fit Right Pierre, Not only have they been answered by scriptures, but also by the experts that HE HIMSELF linked us to.  I quoted all six of those experts after he gave us the link, and all six of them agreed that Paul was speaking of the kind of body some of us will have IN HEAVEN.  Just like the body Jesus now has IN HEAVEN. But then he says, “NO!  Those guys didn't really agree with you!”  And I said, “No?  Well then show me how they DISAGREED.” And then what?  Has he quoted them or shown us how they disagreed with us?  Nope.  He just keeps posting trash about how I won't address HIS posts, and at the same time REFUSES to discuss this one question/answer at a time with me. Now, Irene has brought up a most excellent point that I never even thought of.  WHY did Paul distinguish BETWEEN a natural body and a spiritual one if the spiritual body in nothing more than a “modified” natural body? He is lost, Pierre.  What more can we do? peace and love, mike Mike, you are not lost just because you are wondering about something as we are.  Why don't you speak the truth?  Why dont you say the same thing to Terrarica and to Irene?  Istari and I and Gene believe Jesus was ressurected in the flesh. But Terrarica and Irene don't. Are you more concerned about being right and having recruits on your side than saving them?   MIKE – What does the Bible say? that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. See my hands and my feet, that it is truly me. Touch me and see, for a spirit doesn't have flesh and bones, as you see that I have.” For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who don't confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the Antichrist. I'm not saying they are the deciever and antichrist I am saying they have learnt WRONG and YOU don't seem to care, you would rather pick on those who DO believe it, and pat the others who don't on the head. So why do some who claim they are believers in Jesus Christ not believe this? If they do not believe in a physical resurrection they do not have the correct gospel, which means they are not true believers, and are not in possession of the Holy Spirit who bear witness to this biblical fact. http://www.letusreason.org/Doct51.htm And that's just a quick as google search, I will find more.

Shimmer! Mike, Pierre and I all believe that Jesus rose drom the death. But you too don't understand what the ransom is all about. And what is really a person/ It is the Spirit, the flesh profits nothing. Jesus went back to Heaven where He was before as a Spirit Being.
Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

In order to be there with His Father He had to be a Spirit being now, and then…

1Cr 15:50 ¶ Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

He has a Spiritual Body according to Scripture in

1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Shimmer, are you now going to be like Gene, who has accuswed us of having the Spirit of Anti-Christ?

I always thought higher of you then that….
Peace Irene

[mikeboll64]

Istari,

There are many issues with you “citizenship” theory.  First and foremost, it is clear to all of us that it is only a lame attempt to avoid the FACT that Paul would never have been anxious to receive a new, glorious body that he wouldn't even need.

Second, everywhere Paul traveled was under Roman domain and part of the Roman Empire.

Third, in Paul's day, many people paid handsomely to BUY Roman citizenship for the rights that came along with it.  So it didn't have so much to do with living IN Rome, but more to do with protection.

Fourth, if the citizenship of Paul (as YOU are claiming it means) was in heaven, then wasn't also his Lord and Savior's citizenship also in heaven when HE was on the earth?

Answer #4, and I'll let you know where I'm going with this. Then I'll also add #5, 6 and 7.

[terraricca]

Quote (shimmer @ July 12 2011,17:35)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2011,10:34) Quote (terraricca @ July 11 2011,01:47) your questions are all answered in this topic but you only believe in you or the way you see it fit Right Pierre, Not only have they been answered by scriptures, but also by the experts that HE HIMSELF linked us to.  I quoted all six of those experts after he gave us the link, and all six of them agreed that Paul was speaking of the kind of body some of us will have IN HEAVEN.  Just like the body Jesus now has IN HEAVEN. But then he says, “NO!  Those guys didn't really agree with you!”  And I said, “No?  Well then show me how they DISAGREED.” And then what?  Has he quoted them or shown us how they disagreed with us?  Nope.  He just keeps posting trash about how I won't address HIS posts, and at the same time REFUSES to discuss this one question/answer at a time with me. Now, Irene has brought up a most excellent point that I never even thought of.  WHY did Paul distinguish BETWEEN a natural body and a spiritual one if the spiritual body in nothing more than a “modified” natural body? He is lost, Pierre.  What more can we do? peace and love, mike Mike, you are not lost just because you are wondering about something as we are.  Why don't you speak the truth?  Why dont you say the same thing to Terrarica and to Irene?  Istari and I and Gene believe Jesus was ressurected in the flesh. But Terrarica and Irene don't. Are you more concerned about being right and having recruits on your side than saving them?   MIKE – What does the Bible say? that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. See my hands and my feet, that it is truly me. Touch me and see, for a spirit doesn't have flesh and bones, as you see that I have.” For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who don't confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the Antichrist. I'm not saying they are the deciever and antichrist I am saying they have learnt WRONG and YOU don't seem to care, you would rather pick on those who DO believe it, and pat the others who don't on the head. So why do some who claim they are believers in Jesus Christ not believe this? If they do not believe in a physical resurrection they do not have the correct gospel, which means they are not true believers, and are not in possession of the Holy Spirit who bear witness to this biblical fact. http://www.letusreason.org/Doct51.htm And that's just a quick as google search, I will find more.

Shimmer

do say about me what you can not prove;

Quote

Istari and I and Gene believe Jesus was ressurected in the flesh. But Terrarica and Irene don't.

we both believe that Christ was resurrected a living being and the body of flesh he took was to appear to his apostles and so finish his work on earth and then leave to be taken away in heaven before approx 500 disciples,

but what you guys are saying to my understanding is that Christ was a man and died and was resurrected as a man and WAS so elevated to heaven in flesh and bones and blood

if you say there was no blood ,then there was no flesh and bones because those two ingredients need blood to function,

but if Christ was resurrected as spirit being and covered himself with flesh and bone to be visible then we can understand why his disciples did not recognized him at first and many other times(changing of body)

you guys are mixing the kingdom of the earth with the kingdom of heaven,different bodies in different world
this is what Paul explain in 1Cor 15
the earth being natural ,and heaven being spiritual (means belong to the spirit world)

Pierre

[Istari]

And SPIRITUAL BODY:

Hebrews 4: 22-24,
“that you PUT OFF, concerning your former conduct, the old man (sinful nature of the NATURAL BODY) which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,
And be Renewed in the Spirit of your MIND,
and that you PUT ON the new Man (The Spiritual Nature) which was created according to God, in true righteousness and Holiness.

So the NATURAL BODY seeks to do that which is greedy, lustful, avaricious, selfish, deceitful, all things that lead to corruption and death in the flesh (and ultimately, destruction of the Spirit).

Paul urges the Ephesians to 'Put off their natural bodies – to put them to death in mind – and adopt a SPIRITUAL BODIES that have Spirits that are a purity of MIND.

They will then become SPIRITUAL yet are NOT SPIRITS but MEN, men in flesh and bone bodies, bodies that no longer CONFORM to the citizenship of the earthly but of the Heavenly.

Their CONDUCT must be as liken to the Angels of Heaven: Righteous and Holy.

So, Mike, does this answer your question as to Paul's desire.

And Irene…. Why are you stressing about a RANSOM – you are so out of kilter I scarely know WHAT YOU ARE…!!

Irene, you mike and Terraricca are in PAIN FOR YOUR DECEITs…

Terraricca can't even think – he has drowned out at sea of his fishing boat.. He is a waste of space time and effort – not effort cos there is nothing he says of any value.

Irene… Jesus' SACRIFICE AND RANSON WAS HIS BLOOD…

See, FLESH AND BONE… not FLESH AND BLOOD…

Irene, RANSOM has nothing to do with HIS BODY.

It was HIS LIFE .. his LIFE .. he gave as a RANSOM.

The SACRIFICE was His BLOOD. previously it was the LIFE OF AN ANIMAL THAT WAS GIVEN IN RANSOM AND SACRIFICE but this was not fully accepted by God but only allowed until there was a TRUE SINLESS HUMAN to die and SPILL HIS BLOOD for the sake of the SIN OF ADAM (mankind).

What has this to do with SPIRITS HAVING BODIES…?

Please do not take any pleasure in support from Mikeboll. He is not SUPPORTING YOU because he KNOWS YOU ARE WRONG… he is just using you as a TOOL, an BLUNT INSTRUMENT with which to stab me – can a blunt instrument stab? No… Batter maybe but he has no strength to do so – he is weak and shallow and so hides from anything meaningful.

Mike is sick (Ill) and it shows in his decrepit writings.

Irene, this is what happens when you side with Satan – and you are going the same way.

Terraricca is already lost – when did he last post anything other than spite?

I don't think he even knows what he is saying – anything ANYONE POSTS his response is the same, 'You don't know what you talking about – You don't know God'

[Istari]

Ok,

The devil is too strong for me – I'm out of here…

Scriptures says God will send a Spirit of delusion so as to make them fail to understand – and this is clear in this thread…

Goodbye..

[terraricca]

Quote (Istari @ July 12 2011,18:08)

And SPIRITUAL BODY: Hebrews 4: 22-24, “that you PUT OFF, concerning your former conduct, the old man (sinful nature of the NATURAL BODY) which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, And be Renewed in the Spirit of your MIND, and that you PUT ON the new Man (The Spiritual Nature) which was created according to God, in true righteousness and Holiness. So the NATURAL BODY seeks to do that which is greedy, lustful, avaricious, selfish, deceitful, all things that lead to corruption and death in the flesh (and ultimately, destruction of the Spirit). Paul urges the Ephesians to 'Put off their natural bodies – to put them to death in mind – and adopt a SPIRITUAL BODIES that have Spirits that are a purity of MIND. They will then become SPIRITUAL yet are NOT SPIRITS but MEN, men in flesh and bone bodies, bodies that no longer CONFORM to the citizenship of the earthly but of the Heavenly. Their CONDUCT must be as liken to the Angels of Heaven: Righteous and Holy. So, Mike, does this answer your question as to Paul's desire. And Irene…. Why are you stressing about a RANSOM – you are so out of kilter I scarely know WHAT YOU ARE…!! Irene, you mike and Terraricca are in PAIN FOR YOUR DECEITs… Terraricca can't even think – he has drowned out at sea of his fishing boat.. He is a waste of space time and effort – not effort cos there is nothing he says of any value. Irene… Jesus' SACRIFICE AND RANSON WAS HIS BLOOD… See, FLESH AND BONE… not FLESH AND BLOOD… Irene, RANSOM has nothing to do with HIS BODY. It was HIS LIFE .. his LIFE .. he gave as a RANSOM. The SACRIFICE was His BLOOD. previously it was the LIFE OF AN ANIMAL THAT WAS GIVEN IN RANSOM AND SACRIFICE but this was not fully accepted by God but only allowed until there was a TRUE SINLESS HUMAN to die and SPILL HIS BLOOD for the sake of the SIN OF ADAM (mankind). What has this to do with SPIRITS HAVING BODIES…? Please do not take any pleasure in support from Mikeboll. He is not SUPPORTING YOU because he KNOWS YOU ARE WRONG… he is just using you as a TOOL, an BLUNT INSTRUMENT with which to stab me – can a blunt instrument stab? No… Batter maybe but he has no strength to do so – he is weak and shallow and so hides from anything meaningful. Mike is sick (Ill) and it shows in his decrepit writings. Irene, this is what happens when you side with Satan – and you are going the same way. Terraricca is already lost – when did he last post anything other than spite? I don't think he even knows what he is saying – anything ANYONE POSTS his response is the same, 'You don't know what you talking about – You don't know God'

istari

you forgot this scriptures;Mt 22:30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven

Jesus speaking;

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (shimmer @ July 11 2011,17:35)

I'm not saying they are the deciever and antichrist I am saying they have learnt WRONG and YOU don't seem to care

I do care for both of them, Shimmer – as well as for you.  But what you showed me changed the way I believed about this subject.  And if you remember, Pierre, Irene and I went round and round about it for a long time.  But what kind of body Jesus was raised from the dead in is NOT the subject of this thread.

So if you and Istari want to have this side debate with Pierre and Irene, feel free.  You already know my belief about it, because YOU are the one who lead me to the scripture that caused me to change my former belief.

I believe that Jesus was raised in the same exact body he died in.  I believe he stayed on earth in that body for 40 days.  And since flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, which I'm sure we all agree Jesus HAS inherited, I believe that Jesus' body was transformed into the new, glorious spiritual body he now has in heaven sometime after he disappeared from the disciples' view.

I have made this belief manifest to all on this thread.  I have given you credit for leading me to the truth of the matter.  What else would you have me do?  Pierre, Irene and I have agreed to disagree on this subject.  So the discussion you and Istari are having with them about it now is not MY fight.

peace,
mike

[terraricca]

Quote (Istari @ July 12 2011,18:12)

Ok, The devil is too strong for me – I'm out of here… Scriptures says God will send a Spirit of delusion so as to make them fail to understand – and this is clear in this thread… Goodbye..

JA

you devil are going because you can not convince us of your Antichrist views

Pierre

[shimmer]

Irene,

Irene, I have seen HUGE changes in you since the time I was first here, GOOD changes. Irene, the only reason I came down so hard on you and Mike especially and Terrarica, is because I CARE.  Most of the time when I post here it's just my inquisitive mind, full of error, trying hard to find and understand thing's.  I have HUGE distractions in my life.  I have a son with me who is a wonderfull child, top Student (He won the student of the year last year) But he talks a lot.  Non-stop.  And I cannot ignore him because that is how he learns. So, whenever I have a point in my mind, and I'm truly onto something, then he will TALK, and I forget everything I was thinking of.  Then at night I'm tired, my brain half asleep.  Irene I have not been reading the scriptures for long so I don't have years of knowledge on my side.  

Sometimes though I feel an urgency. Like I do with this. I do believe that belief in the flesh resurrection of Christ is important and maybe even POSSIBLY essential to your own ressurection. So I care Irene.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Istari @ July 11 2011,18:08)

So, Mike, does this answer your question as to Paul's desire.

Let's check out a few things first:

1.  Are you implying that when Paul wrote to the Phillipians, he had yet to receive the Holy Spirit which made him a “spiritual man”?  Was he still, after all this time as an Apostle of Christ, waiting for Jesus to send him the Holy Spirit, thereby “transforming” his lowly body into his new, spiritual FLESH AND BLOOD body?

2.  Are you saying that those who do receive the Holy Spirit and act according to it no longer have the “greedy, lustful, avaricious, selfish, deceitful, all things that lead to corruption and death in the flesh” nature that those without the Holy Spirit have?  In other words, do those who receive the Holy Spirit no longer sin or have fleshly desires?  

3.  Do those who recieve their new, glorious spiritual FLESH AND BLOOD bodies cease to decay?  Are those new FLESH AND BLOOD bodies now “incorruptable and immortal”? Are these new “spiritual men” immune to death now?

Let's start with those three points first, okay?  If the answer to ANY of those is “NO”, then no, you have not addressed my point.

[Pastry]

Quote (shimmer @ July 12 2011,11:18)

Irene, Irene, I have seen HUGE changes in you since the time I was first here, GOOD changes. Irene, the only reason I came down so hard on you and Mike especially and Terrarica, is because I CARE.  Most of the time when I post here it's just my inquisitive mind, full of error, trying hard to find and understand thing's.  I have HUGE distractions in my life.  I have a son with me who is a wonderfull child, top Student (He won the student of the year last year) But he talks a lot.  Non-stop.  And I cannot ignore him because that is how he learns. So, whenever I have a point in my mind, and I'm truly onto something, then he will TALK, and I forget everything I was thinking of.  Then at night I'm tired, my brain half asleep.  Irene I have not been reading the scriptures for long so I don't have years of knowledge on my side.   Sometimes though I feel an urgency. Like I do with this. I do believe that belief in the flesh resurrection of Christ is important and maybe even POSSIBLY essential to your own ressurection. So I care Irene.

Shimmer, fair enough. Be happy you have a little child, they grow up way to fast…..But consider the Scriptures. Is there a Scripture that states Jesus first rose from the dead in His earthly body? I only see that in the resurrection, it is sown a natural body and raised a spiritual body. I don't see an in- between. Maria Magdalene did not recognize Jesus. If Jesus was resurrected in His earthly body first, then why did She not recognize Him.
Also
those that walked with Jesus didn't either, only when Jesus broke bread they did….

Luk 24:30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meal with them, he took bread, and blessed [it], and brake, and gave to them.

Luk 24:31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

He vanished out of sight….Did He go through a door? If He had a earthly body He could not have just vanished….
When Jesus then appeared to the Apostles the doors were shut. Could He come through the wall when He had a earthly body?

This is what I question…….

I believe that it is important that we know Jesus did rose from the dead. It does not say that it matters with what body He rose from the death. As long as we do believe that He did. And that Pierre and I do believe. We get all kinds of abuse from some because of it, that I find not right…. Noone has all of the truths, we all fall short of the glory of God. So who is to say Pierre is wrong or I am wrong or right for that matter. I show Scriptures, and go by them….. In due time if I am wrong, Gods Holy Spirit will show me. He has done so before….
Peace adn Love Irene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Istari @ July 12 2011,11:12)

Ok, The devil is too strong for me – I'm out of here… Scriptures says God will send a Spirit of delusion so as to make them fail to understand – and this is clear in this thread… Goodbye..

Istari……….I was wondering when you would come to this, You are right they have a spirit (intellect) of delusion sent by GOD they can not recieve the spiritual truth , becasue the truth is not (IN) them, so they stumble around mudding up any progress made here. Why keep throwing out pears before them they just stamp them under foot and turn an rend you shimmer and Me, Paladin, Marty Kerwin and others .

Istari……..God is teaching you a lesson by all this here it is, “UNLESS THE LORD SHALL BUILD THE HOUSE THE WEARY BUILDERS BUILD IN VAIN”

Just as Jesus told the Pharisees ” No man can come unto me unless the Lord shall draw him”. Let them go their way and they will truly fall into the ditch in fact they all ready are (in) ditch, and don't even know it Brother. IMO

peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Istari @ July 12 2011,18:12)

Ok, The devil is too strong for me – I'm out of here… Scriptures says God will send a Spirit of delusion so as to make them fail to understand – and this is clear in this thread… Goodbye..

istati
Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you

[Istari]

Gene,
Thanks for your spiritual support.
Your words are 'Righteous and Holy' (Hebrews 4:25) in this regard.

Someone, in a very recent post, said that “It does not matter with what body the dead will rise.”
Saint Paul, in answer to Corinthian's hardheadedess, said “But some will say 'With what bodies will the dead be raised?”
then he calls them “Fools”…
This is partly because some, the SADDUCEES, do not believe in the RESURRECTION of the dead (Like the one who's post I'm indicating. Later, it he states 'For if the DEAD do not rise then all our works are in vain' and 'we strive for nothing'.
The other reason for calling them this shocking term, is that some were PHARISEES, who believed that they are already SAVED because of their holding to the laws and rituals (Like bodily cleansing, eating only certain food, and not associating with certain people, not even to touch them or be near them)
Paul was showing them that it is CLEANLINESS OF THE MIND that brings about CLEANLINESS OF THE BODY… so one can become a SPIRITUAL (new) MAN even while in the FLESHLY BODY that is CORRUPTED by it's desires of the SINFUL way.
This does not mean that that sinful body, even though driven by the NEW MAN, is still not CORRUPT, but that the SPIRITUAL MAN has control of his body to not sin – like Jesus demonstrated.
However it is looked at, no matter what sentiment is thrown at it: Jesus would have died NATURALLY like any other man EVENTUALLY because JESUS TOOK ON THE SAME FLESH AND BLOOD SINFUL NATURED BODY as EVERY MAN BORN OF WOMAN (Special case for Adam and Eve who were the original sinners because their destruction is a surety).
Jesus' mortal and sinful body was kept in check – Jesus was a SPIRITUAL MAN throughout his life in his mortal body – hence he DIED from his wounds and manner of bodily torture on the cross.
Yet for this very purpose he was sent…
Even Jesus ALMOST regretted dying, saying 'Of this cup can be taken from me…' but catches himself almost slipping into sin (Temptation of Satan) and draws himself back to his Spiritual nature with, '…not for my will, but for yours (God Almighty, his Father)'.

So his body DIED when his Spirit left his mortal body.

Three days later, Before his mortal body had decayed, before his body saw corruption (For God did not suffer to see his body go to corruption) – and remember that LAZARUS was dead FOUR DAYS yet was raised up again into the SAME (Corruptible and MORTAL) BODY – a foretaste ONLY, of what was to come.
SCRIPTURES says that Jesus was RAISED UP INTO A Spiritual BODY: One that does not have the sinful nature – by nature but has a SPIRITUAL nature – by nature.

Paul emphasises that this BODY is FROM THE OLD. It is not a NEW BODY but a TRANSFORMED BODY – transformed from the old: The revived (Resurrected) but transformed body will be a GLORIOUS BODY, with no traces of corruptibility, it will be SPIRITUAL: 'Righteous and Holy'.
With a Righteous and Holy body – directed by a Righteous and Holy mind – both incorruptible, Sinless, Undecayable and Glorious, we will be able to accommodate the FULL MEASURE OF GOD's HOLY SPIRIT.
As such, NOTHING is beyond our reach in the three dimensional world. As Jesus demonstrated by walking on water; quelling the storm; turning water into wine; tempted by Satan to turn rocks into bread… If a Spiritial minded and Soiritual bodied person can do that then appearing inside a room (Who said 'Walked through the door/Wall – no, no… Materialised where he will – yes, to the naive, it is the same thing – forgive them! Hence Jesus 'Vanished' – dematerialises – from before the two men in Ammeus – yet Jesus ATE FOOD as PROOF that he was NOT A SPIRIT – even SAID SO :

“Oh dear Lord God of Heaven, if it be thy will, please forgive those adulterate the very words of your Son Jesus Christ and deny the very purpose of his painful death and glorious resurrection. They are striving with and against Truth – Truth written and underwritten by your ELECT.
Bring even ONE of them round to your truth – many will follow – even as one wayward sheep follows another, yet even that wayward sheep could lead the others, not by it's own will, but by the calling of the Shepherd, back to the fold…”

The SPIRITUAL BODY is not yet… Even Paul says, 'WE WILL' not 'We Have'. It is only at the RESURRECTION, the first trumpet, that those of the elect will rise and gain their SPIRITUAL BODIES (Do we see Glorified spiritual bodies walking around today?) and then go up to Heaven after meeting with Jesus.
The BODY, even a SPIRITUAL BODY, cannot enter Heaven, for Heaven is the abode of the SPIRIT… Earth is the abode of the BODY ( as I have stated over and over by DIMENSIONS – which is PROVEABLE – not here because some here are SAD U SEE and some are too FAR I SEE from accepting anything that does not come from their limited imagination!)
BUT as to the present he says 'Put off the OLD MAN – and Put on the NEW MAN.'
This means a change of STATE OF MIND for WE cannot make the change unless we FIRST DIE (Sown, buried… Even the dead from millennium because, as we know, God has a Blueprint of everyone – SCIENCE has DISCOVERED – not invented – our Blueprint by DNA…)

But another here asks (Nay, demands) answers to a series of questions but refuses, himself, to answer anyone elses questions.

How be that: Answer is simple: Avoidance of displaying his ignorance. He covers his ignorance by asking a covering question that is designed to be nonsense to draw the opposer away – this is animalistic behaviour…

Anyway, Gene, this thread is drawn away from it's theme PRECISELY by the fact that NO EVIDENCE can be shown for SPIRITS HAVING BODIES.
The thread has been MODIFIED (HA HA – They say that the FLESH AND BONE BODY IS MODIFIED TO THAT OF SPIRIT… ha ha ha…) to an ungiven title of:
“How are the DEAD BODIES OF HUMAN BEINGS to be RESSURECTED: As INCORRUPTIBLE Flesh and Bone, or AS SPIRITS”

Even by that title – it says NOTHING about SPIRITS HAVING BODIES. it says that the dead will be SPIRITS.

So who will live on paradise earth?
For what purpose did God create FLESH if all is to be SPIRIT?
Spirit, Jesus himself said (Lord, hear my prayer!) 'Does not have flesh and Bone'.
By some here – ALL PERSONS RESURRECTED will go to heaven – Why then was the EARTH CREATED?
This glorious world, untamed as yet, granted. This magnificent uniformity of cohesive activity – Spectacular bodies of intelligent matter called PLANTS, ANIMALS, BIRDS, FISH, INSECTS… also the supporting substructures of MICROBES, and BACTERIA… only spoiled by sinful earthly-minded man.

On about that: FLESH AND BLOOD… This means CARNAL MAN.
when Paul speaks of 'Those who are heavenly' this does NOT MEAN ANGELS (Although Angels are also 'Heavenly'. It means those who have a RIGHTEOUS and HOLY mind.

And for sure, Angels of heaven are Righteous and Holy… But nothing Paul speaks of is concerning ANGELS… This is the whole issue here… The 'ANGEL' angle was brought about through disreputable misrepresentation of Paul's words and desperation for claiming that SPIRITS HAVE BODIES.

This is outrageous and the one who initiated it is no better than Adam – making the Sacrificial blood of Christ worthless (one here needs to take note of this last point)

Gene, ask for a definition of 'Spirit' and one for 'Spiritual'.
For this exercise It matters not what you believe – it is not not LETTER, here but the SPIRIT, that is sough (Will it be answered – not what is answered)

Do Spirits have Bodies: well, 365 pages later and not one shred of evidence says 'No'.

[Istari]

But we have learned a lot about each other and about the resurrection of the dead.

– hey, in the SPIRIT of things, maybe someone could start a thread on that MATTER – here's now there's a thought, eh!!

[shimmer]

Gene and Istari, good posts from you both…

[shimmer]

Mike, ok. Irene, I believe Istari has answered your points really well in the post above and the page before. Some things I was thinking of myself today, and Istari has put it into words better than I could.

[Pastry]

Shimmer!  If Jesus was resurrected in the same body then He died in, why did Maria Magdalene not recognize Jesus?

Jhn 20:11 ¶ But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, [and looked] into the sepulchre,  

Jhn 20:12   And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.  

Jhn 20:13   And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him.  

Jhn 20:14   And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.  

I already gave the Scriptures where the two walked with Jesus and they too didn't recognize Him either….

Even if it was a transformed body, it would still be recognizable, if it was the same body  but Jesus had a Spiritual Body like the Scriptures say.  First the natural and then the spiritual body….that is what 1 Corinth. 15:44 says.

I also believe Spiritual is two fold.  We as Christians having Gods Holy Spirit in us are spiritual, the Temple of God. But we don't have a spiritual body. Whether we qualify to be like Jesus all of us, I personal don't think so.   They that died for Christ in the first three centuries are IMO.  But I do know that some will be flesh and blood here on earth.

Quote

For what purpose did God create FLESH if all is to be SPIRIT? Spirit, Jesus himself said (Lord, hear my prayer!) 'Does not have flesh and Bone'. By some here – ALL PERSONS RESURRECTED will go to heaven – Why then was the EARTH CREATED?

Not all man will be Spirit Beings and have a spiritual body.  But those Saints that died for Jesus will be Spirits Being living in the New Jerusalem where God and Jesus dwells.  The meek who are Human flesh and body will inherit the earth.

Hebrew 4:25 is not in my Bible, it only goes to verse 16

Peace Irene

[terraricca]

Irene

and Paul says;
1CO 15:45 So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1CO 15:46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.
1CO 15:47 The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven.
1CO 15:48 As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly.

1CO 15:49 Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.

1CO 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;
1CO 15:43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
1CO 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Istari @ July 12 2011,19:33)

Gene, Thanks for your spiritual support. Your words are 'Righteous and Holy' (Hebrews 4:25) in this regard. Someone, in a very recent post, said that “It does not matter with what body the dead will rise.” Saint Paul, in answer to Corinthian's hardheadedess, said “But some will say 'With what bodies will the dead be raised?” then he calls them “Fools”… This is partly because some, the SADDUCEES, do not believe in the RESURRECTION of the dead (Like the one who's post I'm indicating. Later, it he states 'For if the DEAD do not rise then all our works are in vain' and 'we strive for nothing'. The other reason for calling them this shocking term, is that some were PHARISEES, who believed that they are already SAVED because of their holding to the laws and rituals (Like bodily cleansing, eating only certain food, and not associating with certain people, not even to touch them or be near them) Paul was showing them that it is CLEANLINESS OF THE MIND that brings about CLEANLINESS OF THE BODY… so one can become a SPIRITUAL (new) MAN even while in the FLESHLY BODY that is CORRUPTED by it's desires of the SINFUL way. This does not mean that that sinful body, even though driven by the NEW MAN, is still not CORRUPT, but that the SPIRITUAL MAN has control of his body to not sin – like Jesus demonstrated. However it is looked at, no matter what sentiment is thrown at it: Jesus would have died NATURALLY like any other man EVENTUALLY because JESUS TOOK ON THE SAME FLESH AND BLOOD SINFUL NATURED BODY as EVERY MAN BORN OF WOMAN (Special case for Adam and Eve who were the original sinners because their destruction is a surety). Jesus' mortal and sinful body was kept in check – Jesus was a SPIRITUAL MAN throughout his life in his mortal body – hence he DIED from his wounds and manner of bodily torture on the cross. Yet for this very purpose he was sent… Even Jesus ALMOST regretted dying, saying 'Of this cup can be taken from me…' but catches himself almost slipping into sin (Temptation of Satan) and draws himself back to his Spiritual nature with, '…not for my will, but for yours (God Almighty, his Father)'. So his body DIED when his Spirit left his mortal body. Three days later, Before his mortal body had decayed, before his body saw corruption (For God did not suffer to see his body go to corruption) – and remember that LAZARUS was dead FOUR DAYS yet was raised up again into the SAME (Corruptible and MORTAL) BODY – a foretaste ONLY, of what was to come. SCRIPTURES says that Jesus was RAISED UP INTO A Spiritual BODY: One that does not have the sinful nature – by nature but has a SPIRITUAL nature – by nature. Paul emphasises that this BODY is FROM THE OLD. It is not a NEW BODY but a TRANSFORMED BODY – transformed from the old: The revived (Resurrected) but transformed body will be a GLORIOUS BODY, with no traces of corruptibility, it will be SPIRITUAL: 'Righteous and Holy'. With a Righteous and Holy body – directed by a Righteous and Holy mind – both incorruptible, Sinless, Undecayable and Glorious, we will be able to accommodate the FULL MEASURE OF GOD's HOLY SPIRIT. As such, NOTHING is beyond our reach in the three dimensional world. As Jesus demonstrated by walking on water; quelling the storm; turning water into wine; tempted by Satan to turn rocks into bread… If a Spiritial minded and Soiritual bodied person can do that then appearing inside a room (Who said 'Walked through the door/Wall – no, no… Materialised where he will – yes, to the naive, it is the same thing – forgive them! Hence Jesus 'Vanished' – dematerialises – from before the two men in Ammeus – yet Jesus ATE FOOD as PROOF that he was NOT A SPIRIT – even SAID SO : “Oh dear Lord God of Heaven, if it be thy will, please forgive those adulterate the very words of your Son Jesus Christ and deny the very purpose of his painful death and glorious resurrection. They are striving with and against Truth – Truth written and underwritten by your ELECT. Bring even ONE of them round to your truth – many will follow – even as one wayward sheep follows another, yet even that wayward sheep could lead the others, not by it's own will, but by the calling of the Shepherd, back to the fold…” The SPIRITUAL BODY is not yet… Even Paul says, 'WE WILL' not 'We Have'. It is only at the RESURRECTION, the first trumpet, that those of the elect will rise and gain their SPIRITUAL BODIES (Do we see Glorified spiritual bodies walking around today?) and then go up to Heaven after meeting with Jesus. The BODY, even a SPIRITUAL BODY, cannot enter Heaven, for Heaven is the abode of the SPIRIT… Earth is the abode of the BODY ( as I have stated over and over by DIMENSIONS  – which is PROVEABLE – not here because some here are SAD U SEE and some are too FAR I SEE from accepting anything that does not come from their limited imagination!) BUT as to the present he says 'Put off the OLD MAN – and Put on the NEW MAN.' This means a change of STATE OF MIND for WE cannot make the change unless we FIRST DIE (Sown, buried… Even the dead from millennium because, as we know, God has a Blueprint of everyone – SCIENCE has DISCOVERED – not invented – our Blueprint by DNA…) But another here asks (Nay, demands) answers to a series of questions but refuses, himself, to answer anyone elses questions. How be that: Answer is simple: Avoidance of displaying his ignorance. He covers his ignorance by asking a covering question that is designed to be nonsense to draw the opposer away – this is animalistic behaviour… Anyway, Gene, this thread is drawn away from it's theme PRECISELY by the fact that NO EVIDENCE can be shown for SPIRITS HAVING BODIES. The thread has been MODIFIED (HA HA – They say that the FLESH AND BONE BODY IS MODIFIED TO THAT OF SPIRIT… ha ha ha…) to an ungiven title of:    “How are the DEAD BODIES OF HUMAN BEINGS to be RESSURECTED: As INCORRUPTIBLE Flesh and Bone, or AS SPIRITS” Even by that title – it says NOTHING about SPIRITS HAVING BODIES. it says that the dead will be SPIRITS. So who will live on paradise earth? For what purpose did God create FLESH if all is to be SPIRIT? Spirit, Jesus himself said (Lord, hear my prayer!) 'Does not have flesh and Bone'. By some here – ALL PERSONS RESURRECTED will go to heaven – Why then was the EARTH CREATED? This glorious world, untamed as yet, granted. This magnificent uniformity of cohesive activity – Spectacular bodies of intelligent matter called PLANTS, ANIMALS, BIRDS, FISH, INSECTS… also the supporting substructures of MICROBES, and BACTERIA… only spoiled by sinful earthly-minded man. On about that: FLESH AND BLOOD… This means CARNAL MAN. when Paul speaks of 'Those who are heavenly' this does NOT MEAN ANGELS (Although Angels are also 'Heavenly'. It means those who have a RIGHTEOUS and HOLY mind. And for sure, Angels of heaven are Righteous and Holy… But nothing Paul speaks of is concerning ANGELS… This is the whole issue here… The 'ANGEL' angle was brought about through disreputable misrepresentation of Paul's words and desperation for claiming that SPIRITS HAVE BODIES. This is outrageous and the one who initiated it is no better than Adam – making the Sacrificial blood of Christ worthless (one here needs to take note of this last point) Gene, ask for a definition of 'Spirit' and one for 'Spiritual'. For this exercise It matters not what you believe – it is not not LETTER, here but the SPIRIT, that is sough (Will it be answered – not what is answered) Do Spirits have Bodies: well, 365 pages later and not one shred of evidence says 'No'.

Istari…………Right on brother.

peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene

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