Do spirits have bodies?

Participant

Quote (Istari @ July 11 2011,18:29)

Irene,

For the purpose of the record – please tell us:
1) what YOU MEAN by the SPIRITUAL BODY
2) give some examples of where Scriptures alludes to such

Let me set some parameters – feel free t break them.

1) 'Spiritual body' (SlB) is the term under consideration – not 'SPIRIT BODY'
2) Jesus was RAISED FROM THE DEAD INTO SlB
3) Jesus PROVED HIS RISING FROM THE DEAD to THOMAS ('See, I am NOT a SPIRIT')
4) Jesus was RAISED into a SlB and was SEEN and TOUCHED in a SlB (Body OF FLESH)
5) If Jesus said he was not a Spirit but you say he was – then someone is in great error!!!
6) All the discussion is currently concerning a Flesh and Blood man – the topic title is concerning SPIRITS HAVING BODIES… A man, even Jesus on Earth, is NOT A SPIRIT!!
7) SCRIPTURES SAYS THAT 'A body' CANNOT OCCUPY HEAVEN – which even human physics, Science, lowly man…whatever… Has proved as much… You may not understand it but then I don't understand the language of birds but it does mean birds don't have language.
8) Consider what is meant by 'a Citizen of Heaven'.

Istari! First of all, it is not Mike who revealed what I and my Husband believe, it was Gods Holy Spirit. I wish you would not so much accuse Mike of all sort of things. It simple is not right. I gave you Scripture why I believe what I do. If you don't grasp it, its not m fault. I am not again repeating those Scriptures. Read my previous post…..
Jesus showed the Apostles a Human Body, because they had doubt that He rose from the death. He can manifest Himself just like the Angels , and He did. Again, if Jesus would have risen from the death in His former human body Maria Magdalene would have recognize Him. But She did not, and thought He was the Gardner. Also those that walked with Jesus, only after He broke bread He let them see that it was He…..And then there is the ransom….And when He appeared to the Apostles the doors were shut…..A earthly body cannot go through closed doors…

Also did Jesus go to Heaven in His earthly body? Or what body did He go to Heaven according to you…..??
Peace Irene

July 11, 2011 at 1:18 pm#251954

GeneBalthrop

Participant

To All …..Again SPIRITS do not have bodies they are what is in bodies , just that simple no more and no less why continue try to complicate this simple issue. Can't we even get this simple thing straight in our minds yet. Spirit is the INTELLECT that animates the body. Now if you understand this clearly many scriptures can make sound sense to you.

When it say flesh and blood can not enter the Kingdom of God that is becasue the Kingdom of God is a Spiritual Kingdom, it operates through the Mind it is Spirit, and that Spirit Kingdom can be in a flesh and blood body of any kind When God's will will be done it will be done in all form of Bodies and all form of flesh also. “THAT GOD MAY BE ALL AND (IN) ALL”. and again “for the Kingdom of God comes not with observation , it is within you and that includes you body becasue that is where the Spirit resides.

peace and love………………………………….gene

July 11, 2011 at 5:44 pm#251969

Participant

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. It is sown a natural body and RAISED A SPIRITUAL; BODY. That is what Scriptures are saying.
1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

THESE SCRIPTURES ARE TALKING BOUT THE RESURRECTION OF BODIES.

1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

RAISED, RAISED, RAISED A SPIRITUAL BODY…… TO SAY THAT THERE IS NO SPIRITUAL BODY, IS DENYING SCRIPTURE….. NOT WISE TO DO….

1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

1Cr 15:46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Peace Irene

July 11, 2011 at 5:45 pm#251970

Participant

It is just as I felt in my Spirit – just as I thought…

Irene cannot, like Mikeboll, answer anything.

She THINKS she is answering by writing words but they are just bumblings…

What Irene is saying is that Jesus WAS NOT RAISED FROM THE DEAD (in a body) but directly as a SPIRIT…

A little research on the internet shows that this is what JEHOVAH WITNESSES say… I have no idea if this is true but that's what I read from several sources.

Now, there seems to be a STRAINED concoction brought about by 'CLEAR SCRIPTURES'.

While claiming that Jesus DID NOT RISE in his previously dead body (which makes a MOCKERY OF the Power of God and the EMINATION of that in the raising from the dead in the flesh of LAZARUS and JAIRUS' daughter) she nonetheless has to find a way of fluffing off how Jesus was seen and touched by the Disciples.

She says he 'Materialised a Body'…in the room – Well, ok, I say that too, but I say that it was the body he died in.

Please notice that Irene does not state the point – the MOST CRITICAL POINT – where Jesus asks Thomas to touch him to prove it saying 'SEE, I AM NOT A SPIRIT'.

She goes on, however to say that Angels materialise bodies also (Well, good on you for that. It will make things easier for you later – you will see…) Can anyone see what she has MISSED in her flounderings…?
The HOLES IN HIS HANDS AND FEET AND SIDE… AND … A Spirit NEVER SAYS 'I AM NOT A SPIRIT' even in a MATERIALISED BODY…

It would be a great LIE and an INCREDIBLE DECIETFUL thing to do for a Spirit, that can materialise in ANY FORM, to MIMICK THE DEAD… Irene, remember King Saul and the Spirit in Endor?

Even Mikeboll saw through that even though he tried to use the same reference to claim AGAINST ME… what??!! Basically, he was FISHING – ANGLING – for a position from witch to bite! Notice that he hasn't brought it up again!!

Ok, So Irene thinks Jesus was RAISED directly to a SPIRIT.
So why did the SPIRIT OF JESUS need a BODY if it already HAS ONE?
So why did the SPIRIT OF JESUS NEED to be TRANSFORMED TO CONFORM TO THAT OF A CITIZEN OF HEAVEN?
Isn't the SPIRIT ALREADY 'SPIRITUAL'?

And, Irene, you keep on going on about you are not led by any man – but that ALSO is not true, is it?

And you keep saying that the HOLY SPIRIT TOLD you such and such…

Irene, if the HOLY SPIRIT is telling you things THEN IT WILL BE TRUE AND IRREFUTABLE.

There is ONLY a grain of truth in anything you said – that Jesus MATERIALISED into the room.

If the Holy Spirit is telling you that Jesus wasn't RAISED FROM THE DEAD IN AN IMMORTAL BODY CHANGED FROM MORTAL… then what of the rest of Scriptures where it says 'If the DEAD ARE NOT RAISED THEN ALL OUR WORKS [and suffering and sacrifice and pain and self-denial] ARE FUTILE…'

Irene, I think you should try reading the Scriptures yourself…and DON'T BLANK OUT WHAT YOU SEE THAT SPEAKS AGAINST YOU – it will be TRUE and YOUR IDEAS will be WRONG…

Irene, did the HOLY SPIRIT, WHICH RAISED UP CHRIST FROM THE DEAD, tell you that it DID NOT?

Then, Irene, STOP READING THE BIBLE because, by your reckoning then 'NONE OF IT IS TRUSTWORTHY'

And lastly, the people did not recognise Jesus because he wanted them to BELIEVE BY FAITH… for that reason he said to Thomas, 'Because you have seen you have believed: HAPPY ARE THOSE WHO DID NOT SEE – YET BELIEVE'.
Jesus did not CHANGE HIS BODY to fool them – their eyes were shrouded until Jesus was satisfied that he knew that they believed in his resurrection.

Irene, is there a LANGUAGE problem: WHAT DOES 'RESURRECTION' mean to you?

July 11, 2011 at 7:01 pm#251972

Participant

Istari, blah, blah ,blah……you don't know what a ransom is, and you don't know with what body Jesus was resurrected with. You ignore Scriptures that state first the natural and then the spiritual. You limit Jesus that He cannot manifest Himself to show the Apostles, who thought they seen a Ghost, that it is Jesus. And then He came though closed doors. All with the same body according to you, were He died with on the cross. All tortured and bloody, unrecognizable…. …..Maria Magdalene did not recognize Jesus and neither did they that walked with Jesus. Wow were they blind? And then YOU asked a stupid question what resurrected means!!!!!
1 Corinth. 15:42-46 explains it all, which you deny…….Why do I even bother with you, all you do is talk, talk and talk, and accuse me of believing what the JW Witnesses believe. Even if I did and its the truth, I would……….. But Mike believes He first had the body that He died in, I don't…. So much for believing the same thing….But Mike does believe Jesus now in Heaven has some kind of body……with that I do agree, not because the JW believe, but because Scripture say so…….

July 11, 2011 at 10:22 pm#251981

Blocked

Quote (Pastry @ July 10 2011,21:52)

So why is it that Istari and Shimmer think that natural is the same then spiritual bodies? It is not.

That is an EXCELLENT point, Irene!

If the spiritual body is nothing more than a natural body with God's Spirit in it, then how is it different from anyone who's ever received the Holy Spirit?

If a man receives his “spiritual body” just by being baptized and being filled with God's Spirit, then why does Paul say the old has to die first? Why does he make a distinction BETWEEN the spiritual and natural body if the spiritual is still a natural body?

(And don't try the “born again” stuff guys, because Paul was answering the SPECIFIC question: What kind of bodies will the DEAD be raised up in when he taught us about the DIFFERENCE between a spiritual and natural body.

Good job, Irene!

peace and love,
mike

July 11, 2011 at 10:28 pm#251982

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Pastry @ July 12 2011,13:01)

Irene

Quote

1 Corinth. 15:42-46 explains it all, which you deny…….Why do I even bother with you, all you do is talk, talk and talk, and accuse me of believing what the JW Witnesses believe.

here you are right 300 pages most with JA ,shimmer,Istari and gene ,

and we still in page one

Pierre

July 11, 2011 at 10:34 pm#251983

Blocked

Quote (terraricca @ July 11 2011,01:47)

your questions are all answered in this topic but you only believe in you or the way you see it fit

Right Pierre,

Not only have they been answered by scriptures, but also by the experts that HE HIMSELF linked us to. I quoted all six of those experts after he gave us the link, and all six of them agreed that Paul was speaking of the kind of body some of us will have IN HEAVEN. Just like the body Jesus now has IN HEAVEN.

But then he says, “NO! Those guys didn't really agree with you!” And I said, “No? Well then show me how they DISAGREED.”

And then what? Has he quoted them or shown us how they disagreed with us? Nope. He just keeps posting trash about how I won't address HIS posts, and at the same time REFUSES to discuss this one question/answer at a time with me.

Now, Irene has brought up a most excellent point that I never even thought of. WHY did Paul distinguish BETWEEN a natural body and a spiritual one if the spiritual body in nothing more than a “modified” natural body?

He is lost, Pierre. What more can we do?

peace and love,
mike

July 11, 2011 at 10:48 pm#251985

Blocked

Quote (shimmer @ July 11 2011,03:25)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 11 2011,15:20)

Hi Shimmer,

I await your response about Paul's transformed body – just so we have your view on record.

Mike,

Hermas…

No spirit given by God requires to be asked…..The spirit which is asked and speaks according to the desires of men is earthly, light, and powerless.”

Read Daniel 3 and Malachi 4 and tell me what you think.

Okay shimmer,

I WILL read those passages and give you my thoughts on them…………………..immediately AFTER you tell me that you truly believe Paul was anxious to have his lowly body transformed into one like Jesus' body – just to immediately hang it in a “closet” since he wouldn't ever need it in heaven.

If you can either say those words with a straight face, or tell us the TRUTH about what body you really think Paul was talking about in Phil 3, then I will also do what you asked of me.

You see Shimmer, I already know what you believe about Phil 3. And I also know why you're hesitant to say it “out loud” on this thread for the record. You are eager for praise from a man instead of praise from God.

I know that YOU know in your heart of hearts that it is absolutely ridiculous to think Paul was anxious to have his body transformed into a glorious new body THAT HE WOULDN'T EVEN NEED!

When I get YOUR answer, you'll get MINE. Deal?

peace,
mike

July 11, 2011 at 10:50 pm#251986

Blocked

Quote (Istari @ July 11 2011,01:50)

Mike,

I keep asking a question and you keep trying to hide from it hoping it will go away (Phew!!)

What IS the SPIRIT in relation to the BODY?

Thanks for the short and to the point post. I read it because it was short and to the point, as opposed to the previous posts you made today – which I didn't read.

My answer: Agree to the Q and A discussion, and I will NEVER avoid any question you ask.

Until then, bugger off.

July 11, 2011 at 10:52 pm#251987

Blocked

Quote (shimmer @ July 11 2011,03:56)

It's simple. I dont see what all the fuss is about. Spirit is whats IN a Body, as youve been saying all along.

Really? Then perhaps Gene could tell me what the BODY of an angel is made of, if not spirit.

July 11, 2011 at 10:59 pm#251989

Participant

Ok guys,
You have, all three shown you have a spirit of delusion and therefore it is impossible to show you truth.

Mike, your agreement with Irene is Pathetic because nothing you agreed on was anything I said – so that was pure emptiness and shows that you will even agree with emptiness if you think it benefits you…
Irene has SKEWED EVERYTHING in her last post about what I said about you and her. I said you led her astray and then abandoned her when you realised you were so badly wrong you couldn't remain in your deceit to that level.

Irene is muddying the waters by claiming that I said she still agrees with you (or vice versa) – should cannot see that I am NOT SAYING THAT BUT THAT YOU LED HER TO HER CURRENT MISUNDERSTANDING THEN CHANGED – so No, Irene, I Am not saying you still believe Mike because it is clear that MIKE HAS CHANGED SINCE THEN.

It is EXACTLY THIS KIND OF NONSENSE AND LACK OF UNDERSTANDING that has led to 360 pages on misunderstand of 'SPIRITUAL BODY' even though it HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE THREAD TOPIC BUT BROUGHT IN BY DESPERADO MIKEBOLL who could find NOTHING ELSE to base his DEBASED thoughts on.

The TOPIC TITLE IS 'DO SPIRITS HAVE BODIES' let me remind you all.

While the distraction is a useful topic to discuss – it is nonetheless a distraction from the thread topic.

EVEN IF …Jesus has a SPIRITUAL BODY (SPIRIT BODY – there is not a single reference anywhere to this nonsense term which Mike, Irene and Terraricca invented) which is a TRANSFORMED BODY – how does that prove that SPIRITS ALREADY IN HEAVEN have bodies.

The BODY OF JESUS IS A TRANSFORMED BODY OF FLESH.

Which ANGEL SPIRIT has a TRANSFORMED BODY OF FLESH?

And EVEN IF IT DID – does that then not mean that JESUS IS JUST ANOTHER ANGEL and MANKIND WILL BECOME Just another Angel?

July 11, 2011 at 11:04 pm#251990

terraricca

Participant

mike

Quote

He is lost, Pierre. What more can we do?

I do not know??

now he still ask stupid questions like ;What IS the SPIRIT in relation to the BODY?

but what spirit does he talk about ? did not say, is he talking about the soul ? does he talk about the spirit beings(angels)

and so play to neverland

Pierre

July 11, 2011 at 11:09 pm#251991

Participant

So obvious a missing point here is the definition of a SPIRITUAL BODY.

Neither Mikeboll, Nor Irene WILL OFFER A DEFINITION.

Irene hides behind her misunderstanding and just post the same verses over and over BECAUSE SHE DARE NOT POST ANYTHING ELSE.

She dare not because there IS NOTHING ELSE that she can hide behind.

An honest poster would even attempt to explain but Irene doesn't – just post the SAME VERSES AS IF SOMEHOW THEY WILL MAGIC UP A MEANING IN HER MEANING.

She even claims that the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD told her these things… Irene, please can inwarn you again that you are LYING AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD!

July 11, 2011 at 11:15 pm#251993

Participant

And I ask for a definition of SPIRIT – nothing …

They are so SCARED – FEARFILLED that they DARE NOT try to even defend their claim.

Why not: Because to define 'Spirit' so we agree on what we discussing, is to AGREE THAT 'SPIRIT' means 'Invisible, Disembodied, Immaterial'.

In addition, SPIRITUAL does not mean SPIRIT…
Mike stresses a point of 'Belonging to a Spirit' yet CANNOT COME UP WITH A SINGLE SENTENCE USING THE TERM… amazing…

Well, Mike, are you still up to proving 'BELONGING TO A SPIRIT'…
One sentence… !

July 11, 2011 at 11:25 pm#251996

Participant

Mikeboll's LAST STRAW is to DEMAND FROM SHIMMER an answer to how Paul is looking forward to having his body transform to that like jesus has and becoming a citizen of Heaven.

Mike doesn't understand what 'Being a Citizen' means even as he should know that Paul was a citizen of Rome, conforming to the rules, laws, regulations, privileges, constitutions, etc, of a ROMAN – yet Paul WAS NOT IN ROME…

If THERE WERE MORE beneficial REASONS, who would not change from a Jew to become a Roman Citizen and be ABSTAINED FROM BEING THROWN INTO JAIL, beaten and subject to CRUCIFIXION?

To wit: who would not look forward to having their lowly STATUS of a Jew changed to the UNTOUCHABLE Status of a Roman and look forward to their Citizenship as a ROMAN – even if they never actually ever went to Rome!!

July 11, 2011 at 11:35 pm#251998

http://www.letusreason.org/Doct51.htm

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2011,09:22)

Quote (Pastry @ July 10 2011,21:52)

So why is it that Istari and Shimmer think that natural is the same then spiritual bodies? It is not.

That is an EXCELLENT point, Irene!

If the spiritual body is nothing more than a natural body with God's Spirit in it, then how is it different from anyone who's ever received the Holy Spirit?

Good job, Irene!

peace and love,
mike

Mike! you are so right, yet both Istrari, Gene and Shimmer will never learn this. I am also getting mighty tired of Istari's accusation. Thank you for that compliment, and I return it to you. Your explanation is really good….
Peace and Love Irene

July 11, 2011 at 11:35 pm#251999

shimmer

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2011,10:34)

Quote (terraricca @ July 11 2011,01:47)

your questions are all answered in this topic but you only believe in you or the way you see it fit

Right Pierre,

But then he says, “NO! Those guys didn't really agree with you!” And I said, “No? Well then show me how they DISAGREED.”

He is lost, Pierre. What more can we do?

peace and love,
mike

Mike, you are not lost just because you are wondering about something as we are. Why don't you speak the truth? Why dont you say the same thing to Terrarica and to Irene? Istari and I and Gene believe Jesus was ressurected in the flesh. But Terrarica and Irene don't. Are you more concerned about being right and having recruits on your side than saving them? MIKE – What does the Bible say?

that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

See my hands and my feet, that it is truly me. Touch me and see, for a spirit doesn't have flesh and bones, as you see that I have.”

For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who don't confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the Antichrist.

I'm not saying they are the deciever and antichrist I am saying they have learnt WRONG and YOU don't seem to care, you would rather pick on those who DO believe it, and pat the others who don't on the head.

So why do some who claim they are believers in Jesus Christ not believe this? If they do not believe in a physical resurrection they do not have the correct gospel, which means they are not true believers, and are not in possession of the Holy Spirit who bear witness to this biblical fact.

And that's just a quick as google search, I will find more.

July 11, 2011 at 11:37 pm#252000