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Shimmer! The only Church that called certain men Saints (ST.) is the Catholic Church. They used to have all kinds of Statues all over the Churches walls…….I would not believe in what He says…..
Biography of St. Augustine
Biography
Works By (15)
Works About (6)St. Augustine – (354-430), Bishop of Hippo and “Doctor of the Church”
Accepted by most scholars to be the most important figure in the ancient Western church, St. Augustine was born in Tagaste, Numidia in North Africa. His mother was a Christian, but his father remained a pagan until late in life. After a rather unremarkable childhood, marred only by a case of stealing pears, Augustine drifted through several philosophical systems before converting to Christianity at the age of thirty-one. At the age of nineteen, Augustine read Cicero's Hortensius, an experience that led him into the fascination with philosophical questions and methods that would remain with him throughout his life. After a few years as a Manichean, he became attracted to the more skeptical positions of the Academic philosophers. Although tempted in the direction of Christianity upon his arrival at Milan in 383, he turned first to neoplatonism, During this time, Augustine fathered a child by a mistress. This period of exploration, including its youthful excesses (perhaps somewhat exaggerated) are recorded in Augustine's most widely read work, the Confessions.
During his youth, Augustine had studied rhetoric at Carthage, a discipline that he used to gain employment teaching in Carthage and then in Rome and Milan, where he met Ambrose who is credited with effecting Augustine's conversion and who baptized Augustine in 387. Returning to his homeland soon after his conversion, he was ordained a presbyter in 391, taking the position as bishop of Hippo in 396, a position which he held until his death.
Besides the Confessions, Augustine's most celebrated work is his De Civitate Dei (On the City of God), a study of the relationship between Christianity and secular society, which was inspired by the fall of Rome to the Visigoths in 410. Among his other works, many are polemical attacks on various heresies: Against Faustus, the Manichean; On Baptism; Against the Donatists; and many attacks on Pelagianism and Semi-Pelagianism. Other works include treatises On the Trinity;On Faith, Hope, and Love; On Christian Doctrine; and some early dialogues.
St. Augustine stands as a powerful advocate for orthodoxy and of the episcopacy as the sole means for the dispensing of saving grace. In the light of later scholarship, Augustine can be seen to serve as a bridge between the ancient and medieval worlds. A review of his life and work, however, shows him as an active mind engaging the practical concerns of the churches he served.
Shimmer,
You are a shining light…Excellent post again.
I certainly think YOU KNOW WHAT IS LIKE TO BE IN SPIRIT WITH SOMEONE.
Irene,
What have I been asking Mikeboll for the last umpteen pages that he refuses to engage with?How do you say I don't present evidence. I have written EXTENSIVELY on this issue – how DARE you say that I have not??
I DON'T NEED TO PROVE A NEGATIVE – Irene, do you understand that?
One CANNOT PROVE A NEGATIVE – one can ONLY SPECULATE.
I am not trying to Prove that God does NOT GIVE IT (What is IT?) a body because there is nothing to DISPROVE…
The Scriptures shows clearly that Paul is discussing the BODY. The Quote from Pyles shows this clearly – even if Mikeboll wants to hijack one minor point against the backdrop of the whole of the rest of what Pyles wrote – just as he hijacks one minor point from definition of 'Body' that he then cobbled together with crap from his detritus mind on this issue.
Quote (shimmer @ July 10 2011,22:58) Quote I could say the same to you, Shimmer. You're in the U.K. and I'm in America. But if you were going through some tough times or something, I could support and help you, thereby being able to say, “Don't worry Shimmer, I'll be with you until this thing is resolved.” Very good Mike.
So, you are with them in Spirit… (words, thoughts, and feelings) – but not Body.
So does Spirit need a Body? NO!
You are not with them in Body are you.
God is Spirit.
So… Spirit is words, thoughts, and feelings.
Does Spirit have a Body? Or does Spirit NEED a Body? NO!
But Spirit can be IN a body.
So… I can understand that from the point of view of Jesus being in Heaven – even if in Body… being with us in Spirit.
An important thing, with being with someone in Spirit is firstly knowledge about them. Then communication with them.
Shimmer………Excellent Post Sis, A SPIRIT IS NOT A BODY IT IS WHAT IS IN A BODY. Just that simple nothing more and nothing less. The whole false Christian concept of “Spirit Bodies” is what has caused all this confusion here. There is not one place in scripture that say a spirit IS a body. Saying that a person is or has a spiritual body is not saying a person has a SPIRIT BODY At all. You have it right little one. IMOpeace and love to you and yours shimmer………………………gene
Irene,
Your whole error is based on wrongful interpretation of 'Spiritual Body' because NOTHING IN THE WHOLE OF 1 CORinthians 15 speaks of the SPIRIT.Spiritual is not SPIRIT… this is your mighty error Irene.
You say 'Language'… No, Irene, it is not language that is the problem – it is the foundation upon which you base your DESIRE that is the problem.
You WANT TO SAY that 'Spiritual Body' means 'Spirit Body' because at the beginning you HATED ME for having my TILES removed. So you sided with Mikeboll JUST TO NAYSAY what I was saying… Then Mike led you into the wilderness where he has since left you…
See, even he has ADMITTED to being wrong … But he never apologised to you – did he – never said 'Sorry I misled you!', he just flew away and hid for a while before coming back innembarrassment spewing more nonsense to cover his first (and many of firsts) error.
He has since made MANY MANY modifications to his claims, each time incorporating when he has LEARNT (Which Kerwin attested to…!) but only after SLATING the person who said it.
What a way to go, Mike. Never one to say someone taught him something unless there was something in it for him: he couldn't come back without admitting to Shimmer's post but not that Shimmer learnt from Istari (In fact, he slanders me for leading Shimmer to truth (Even as I say not by me but by the Spirit that showed me what to write))
Gene,
Well supported.
I don't understand Mikeboll. He claims support from posts that DO NOT support him.
This is typical of desperadoes : Did you hear Colonel Gadaffi say that the people who were making an uproar against him were actually 'Cheering for Him'. Yes, deluded men will seek support from even their very own opposers.
How many politicians stand up and claim that the very outcry against their policies are actually 'Raising the point of the issue – the greater the outcry the greater was then the issue – which they brought to the fore' therefore 'it is to their credit for facing the issue!' – nice SPIN, eh?And yes, as I have just written to Irene, it is her misunderstanding of 'Spiritual Body' that is her base error… Continuing with the error once shown she was wrong is an even greater error.
Then, to top it all, she then goes on to claim that Jesus WAS NOT RAISED FROM THE DEAD IN HIS BODY…Wow!!! Talk about a Spirit marked for destruction? Irene, we beg you to ditch this line of thought?
Irene then says that I only accuse Mike!!
Please, please… Look at my posts: How many times have I asked the same questions and got no response?
Did I not use verses from Scriptures: Galations 6:1, Etc…
No, this can only be the 'Mikeboll Fanclub' in action.
Mike CANNOT ANSWER A SINGLE QUESTION so he throws accusations towards me hoping to slip away (you know how: slitherlike) and hide until he senses with his forked Tongue some tasty bit of possible meal as in a point he thinks he can dispute.
If Mikeboll was a Man with credentials (good ones) he would show them: but he CANNOT because he has none.
See how he runs off after thinking he found something in 'Spirit bodies' yet when I ask him to present his case…nothing…
All he has left – aside from spewing venom – is 'Paul said he was looking forward to his citizen in Heaven with a body like Jesus NOW HAS'… more on this later…
Has anyone looked up this point of Mikeboll's concerning the verse (Phil 3:20) 'But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ'.
What is it really saying…?
First, consider that Paul was a ROMAN CITIZEN… His CITIZENSHIP IS IN ROME…
Is a light starting to come on over your head?
Was Paul IN ROME… no… He was in CORINTH. Yet his CITIZENSHIP WAS IN ROME…
Has anyone got it yet?
The CITIZENSHIP OF HEAVEN does not mean that THEY WILL LIVE THERE but that they will be under the RULERSHIP of that STATE…
They will be under the Constitution of that State – they will conduct themselves in the manner of one under that rulership as One would in Heaven – EVEN THOUGH ON EARTH.
This then answers the question of 'How is it Paul is talking to the hardheaded Corinthians apparently telling them that they will all be going to Heaven?'
Of course that is not true… The MASS MAJORITY of those saved from the resurrection will RESIDE ON EARTH – on a PARADISE EARTH – BUT their … CITIZENSHIP … The way they conduct themselves, their RULERSHIP, will not be as now from an Earthly (Corruptible) based government but from a Heavenly (Incorruptible) one – a SPIRITUAL GOVERNMENT.
And, in fact, they could become CITIZENS NOW, EVEN in their corruptible FLESH BODIES If they adopted the ways of God, put off their sinful NATURES OF CORRUPTIBILITY AND SIN and put on A SPIRITUAL BODY OF INCORRUPTIBILITY AND SINLESSNESS.
In other words, have their current bodies transform in DEATH In THE FLESH (Does not mean dying) and be raised with Spiritualness by the will of God through his Holy Spirit.The verse goes on to say that they hope to see Jesus RETURN FROM THAT PLACE WHERE THEIR CITIZENSHIP IS.
AGAIN, This means that they are ON EARTH when Jesus returns even though they are CITIZENS OF THE HEAVENLY PLACE.Repeat: One does not need to be in the place of your citizenship to be a citizen – one only needs to conform to the laws, regulations, standards, constitutions, etc, of that state – in this case, the State of Heaven (indeed, the Spiritual ESTATE Of Heaven).
How did Mikeboll make so many vehement claims concerning this issue and not understand the context of the verse – this is amazing and just goes to show what desparate delusion does to one.
It only took one Lookup to establish these facts which are supported by commonsense and Scriptures as well as the overwhelming understanding of the culture and language of the time.
This could be a shock too much for any old snakes – maybe it could make them jump right out of their skin… Again..! How many times can a snake sheds it's skin after it gets Bloated and puffed up with itself?
Mikeboll,
Quote And now the clown who is known for loving the sound of his own voice so much that he absolutely must post 1000 words per post is crying that I don't answer HIS questions. Oh, boo hoo!
Whether I write one word or a thousand words – the outcome is the same: There is a question to be answered – it is clearly shown so you need not read EVERYTHING seeing that your childish mind cannot read so much without cartoon pictures as support.Spouting on about how much I write does not stop others from reading and understanding what I write – indeed many others write as much if not more but that seems ok with you…
And you don't seem to have much trouble writing as much yourself ALL OVER THE FORUM IN MYRIAD THREADS – whereas I stick to one or two (or so).My points are therefore more directed and thought through rather than just dashed off with discredits as you do when passing by.
Quote (Istari @ July 10 2011,09:26) Whether I write one word or a thousand words – the outcome is the same:
Not even close, clown!
If you write 20 or 30 well thought out words, I would actually READ your posts. As it is, I quickly skim over them.
Think about that.
astari
Quote How did Mikeboll make so many vehement claims concerning this issue and not understand the context of the verse – this is amazing and just goes to show what desparate delusion does to one. It only took one Lookup to establish these facts which are supported by commonsense and Scriptures as well as the overwhelming understanding of the culture and language of the time.
This could be a shock too much for any old snakes – maybe it could make them jump right out of their skin… Again..! How many times can a snake sheds it's skin after it gets Bloated and puffed up with itself?
this is exactly how i feel about you and your quotes ,talk,talk,and talk for the purpose of saying nothing run away from truth ,
Pierre
Quote (shimmer @ July 10 2011,05:58) Does Spirit have a Body? Or does Spirit NEED a Body? NO! But Spirit can be IN a body.
So… I can understand that from the point of view of Jesus being in Heaven – even if in Body… being with us in Spirit.
Hi Shimmer,Very good. Now consider the point Pierre and I have pushed since this thread started: If Jesus is with YOU in spirit right now, but not with ME in spirit, then there are places (YOU) where Jesus' spirit IS, and there are places (ME) where Jesus' spirit IS NOT. In order for ANYTHING AT ALL, whether it be a thought, a prayer, or a spirit, to be in SOME places but not ALL places, there has to be some outer parameter that is distinguishing where that spirit IS from where it IS NOT.
Consider that SOME people get baptized and God's Holy Spirit dwells within them. But OTHER people do NOT have God's Holy Spirit dwelling in THEM. So there are always places where God's Holy Spirit dwells at the same time there are places it doesn't. SOMETHING has to be limiting God's Spirit as being HERE and not THERE.
Okay, that's one aspect of “spirit”, but not the aspect this thead was started to discuss. This thread was started to discuss whether or not spirit BEINGS, like angels and Jesus and God, have bodies.
Will you state CLEARLY for the record how you feel about Paul having his body transformed? Do you really think Paul was hoping to have his lowly body transformed into a glorious new one like Jesus has, just so he could IMMEDIATELY shed that body upon ascension to heaven?
Do you seriously think Paul is anxious to receive a body like the one Jesus has hanging in a closet somewhere?
Or, does it make more sense that Paul, knowing his citizenship would be in heaven, was anxious to receive the glorious new body he would have in heaven?
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ July 11 2011,02:52) This one goes out to Istari:
T8………..Now where is Mikes Tiles for his bad behavior here, “O” that's right he is excluded from trash mouthing because he is our monitor right?. I think it time you pull the reins in on him brother. He uses his advantage as monitor for a right to slander, ridicule and trash talk people , it's not right to ask us all to try to be respectful and allow him to Jack his ignorant mouth like he does , this completely destroys growth here T8. He seem to have a particular hatred for Istari, and i believe Paladin also and Maybe even me to.T8…..I believe It's OK to have salt in ourselves but when it comes to this level you need to put a stop to it brother. IMO
peace and love……………………………gene
Really Gene?
Compare me saying Istari talks too much with some of the wonderful things he's said about me just in the last two pages here.
Why aren't you coming to MY defense Gene?
Hey Gene,
I haven't watched whatever it is that Mike posted – but if you think it is as you say and you have clicked the 'Report as Abuse' button then let us see what t8 does say and do about it.Mike has reached the stage where he has nothing else to offer but lame blusterings : he doesn't even understand what being a 'Citizen of Heaven' means.
Does he know that Paul was a 'Citizen of Rome'. What do we know about Paul's status as 'a Citizen of Rome'?
Is being a citizen necessarily mean you have to be IN THAT CITY/STATE or does it just mean you BELONG TO THAT CITY/STATE and conform to it's laws, regulations, standards and specification?
Is not the Citizen of Heaven one who conforms to the standards that are EXPECTED, nay, MANDATORY, for Heaven?
'Lost in translation': were not the two main characters behaving as CITIZENS OF AMERICA even while their physical bodies were in JAPAN?A citizen, one who conforms to the standards, need not necessarily EVER have been to their place of Citizenship… It is their STATUS AS CITIZENS – not their location that matters.
For how are those who are in Fleshly bodies, even spiritual ones, to be citizens of heaven yet never to actually go there?
Because it is their CONFORMING TO THE STANDARDS OF THEIR CITIZENSHIP that matters.Quote (Istari @ July 10 2011,12:39) Hey Gene,
I haven't watched whatever it is that Mike posted – but if you think it is as you say and you have clicked the 'Report as Abuse' button then let us see what t8 does say and do about it.
Yeah Gene,Report the post of the funny song about someone talking too much. Let's DO bring t8 into this thread so he can see the REAL abuse.
Istari, listen to the song. It was “foreordained” to be about you. (Btw, according to Gene, that means you didn't exist until the time I posted that song!
)Quote (terraricca @ July 11 2011,02:31) astari Quote How did Mikeboll make so many vehement claims concerning this issue and not understand the context of the verse – this is amazing and just goes to show what desparate delusion does to one. It only took one Lookup to establish these facts which are supported by commonsense and Scriptures as well as the overwhelming understanding of the culture and language of the time.
This could be a shock too much for any old snakes – maybe it could make them jump right out of their skin… Again..! How many times can a snake sheds it's skin after it gets Bloated and puffed up with itself?
this is exactly how i feel about you and your quotes ,talk,talk,and talk for the purpose of saying nothing run away from truth ,
Pierre
Terraricca,Even more baseless jibberish from you.
You getting quite good at this saying nothing – you actually don't seem to have anything to say, do you, you actually don't know what is going on, you have no idea what you are reading, you cannot fathom up anything of value – so you just post gibberish.
Who are you? If you don't like what I post because you dont understand it – clearly others do – then why are you posting AGAINST ME.
One does not post against some one else just for the sake of it – you do?
Are you just bored – have you nothing to do in your house – go out with friends – go do something useful instead of wasting your time here posting vehemence against what you know not!!
Mike,
You have become the new WJ and KJ. It is true then that you do adopt other people's styles.
You list both Istari and Gene together as if we were one.
You do this to try and wound by making out that we are the same. That is narsty of you and shows how far you have fallen down the pit of deceit.
I have stated my position on what Gene says and AGREE concerning the Spirit of Man on Earth as being In a Body… That is PERFECTLY CLEAR AND TRUE…
However, anything else YOU CANNOT CLAIM WHAT GENE SAYS AS BEING MY OPINION ALSO.
Stop this nonsense, Mike.
Speak of Gene as to what Gene says; Speak of Astari as what Astari says; speak of both of us when what we say AGREE… only..!
You do almost the same with Shimmer, attributing things Shimmer says as though I had said it thus trying to claim that I am wayward… That is pure deceit, Mikeboll, and is drawn from your inability to deny the truth of one or two so you meld a negative point in one as being that of the other also hoping they don't notice – or to fool bystanders and to embolden and amuse your so-called supporters…
No dealing, Mike, you are LOWER than a snake – and that is saying something!!Quote (Istari @ July 11 2011,13:02) Quote (terraricca @ July 11 2011,02:31) astari Quote How did Mikeboll make so many vehement claims concerning this issue and not understand the context of the verse – this is amazing and just goes to show what desparate delusion does to one. It only took one Lookup to establish these facts which are supported by commonsense and Scriptures as well as the overwhelming understanding of the culture and language of the time.
This could be a shock too much for any old snakes – maybe it could make them jump right out of their skin… Again..! How many times can a snake sheds it's skin after it gets Bloated and puffed up with itself?
this is exactly how i feel about you and your quotes ,talk,talk,and talk for the purpose of saying nothing run away from truth ,
Pierre
Terraricca,Even more baseless jibberish from you.
You getting quite good at this saying nothing – you actually don't seem to have anything to say, do you, you actually don't know what is going on, you have no idea what you are reading, you cannot fathom up anything of value – so you just post gibberish.
Who are you? If you don't like what I post because you dont understand it – clearly others do – then why are you posting AGAINST ME.
One does not post against some one else just for the sake of it – you do?
Are you just bored – have you nothing to do in your house – go out with friends – go do something useful instead of wasting your time here posting vehemence against what you know not!!
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