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Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 07 2011,14:44) Quote (Pastry @ July 06 2011,15:16) When Paul speaks of a spiritual body, he means a material yet incorruptible and immortal body adapted to the heavenly clime, and this is in contrast to the natural body, which refers to the corruptible and mortal body that is adapted to the earthly clime. Instead, the obvious intent is to explain His meaning of spiritual body by illustrating it with the resurrected body of Christ.
Thanks for that, Irene.Shimmer once posted something from this same author, but I don't think it was the same piece of information.
peace and love to you my friend,
mike
You welcome Mike….
Peace adn Love IreneIrene…….Obviously you did not read what you Posted about a resurected “BODY” , because you seem not to believe it. Go back are reread what you posted and what He said slowly . It is in complete agreement with what Istari and I have been saying. IMO
peace and love………………………………..gene
Irene,
I won't even bother to respond to your points here as it is clear that you have not understood what you yourself are reading…In fact, I dont understand why you posted the quote that clearly states the definition of the Spiritual Body as being the prototype of the one Jrsus was RAISED UP IN – and you yourself ask the question: 'What was the BODY that Jesus was RAISED UP IN?' (The same body he showed to 500 plus the 10 Disciples and to Thomas (as the Eleventh) and said to him: 'See, I am NOT A SPIRIT'…
Thank you for the quote – I had read it a number of times before (I see you now CAN Goggle(!) unlike what you said before when asked to clarify and justify 'Celestial Bodies' and 'Terrestrial Bodies' and how you managed to change 'Spiritual Body' to 'SPIRIT Body')
Istari and Gene! Question? Can flesh and blood enter the Kingdom of God? Scripture states it cannot. The body Jesus was raised in was a Spiritual body according to
1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
You both think that that scorched and tortured body is seated at the right hand of God Almighty? When flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of God.When Jesus was seen by many, you limiting Jesus that He cannot manifest Himself to show them that it was Jesus, that He was risen from the dead. Also you both don't understand the ransom. Do you even know what a ransom is? I don't think your that dumb.
Mar 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Did Maria Magdalene recognize Jesus? No, in fact She thought He was the Gardner. Also those that walked with Jesus , they too did not recognize Him. Only after Jesus broke bread, did they recognize Him, because Jesus let them see …. If Jesus looked the same way before He was crucified, they would have recognized Him right the way….But He did not look the same. He has a glorified body….the one He had before the world was.
That is why I gave you John 17:5…..The article I put up is to show you that Jesus does have a resurrected body, which neither one of you believe.
About the celestial and terrestrial, I never was clear in…… but about the spiritual body I am….. whether I said Spirit body or Spiritual body, i it the same! Hey, I can be wrong as well as you can…..But not about the Spiritual Body, I have that down packed….just like the preexisting of Jesus which you both deny….
Peace IreneQuote ….just like the preexisting of Jesus which you both deny…. Irene, firstly, you have that wrong – Istari DOES believe in pre-existance.
Quote The article I put up is to show you that Jesus does have a resurrected body, which neither one of you believe. Irene, this is exactly what they are saying.
You say Jesus was raised in a SPIRITUAL BODY yet you believe he was ONLY Spirit and manifested himself 'spiritually?' to the Disciples and others… even though Jesus said he was NOT a spirit but flesh and bone. So You are the one who seems to be denying what Jesus Himself said. It's getting me quite confused in what you actually believe here Irene.
Quote He has a glorified body….the one He had before the world was. Where does it say that? It doesn't say Jesus had a glorified BODY before the world began.
Shimmer! No that is not what I meant, that Jesus manifested Himself as a Spiritual Body. To show them that it was Jesus, He manifest Himself as A Human being in flesh and blood, just as the 3 Angels when they came down from heaven, and Abraham prepared them food and drink, which they did eat.
But He did not go to Heaven to be seated at the right hand of God in that body, or was He resurrected in that Body.
Scripture tells me so, in 1 Corinth. 15″44He had a glory with His Father before the world was. In order to be with His Father, He had to have a Spiritual Body. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. Since Istari believes in the preexisting of Jesus then He should know this.
Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
When you take 1 Corinth. 15 and John 17:5 which I did, I came up with that conclusion.
We also have other Scriptures that tells us that Jesus was in Heaven with His Father before the world was. He is the firstborn of all creation Rev. 3:14 and Col. 1:15 and then through Jesus God created all.
Col 1:16 and John 1;3….
Again in order to do this, He was a Spirit Being or had a Spiritual body…..One more thing, in order for the ransom to take effect His body had to stay dead for Adams sin….otherwise we would stay dead forever. Just like God did away with Moses body, He did away with Jesus earthly body…. it did not see decay.
Peace Irene
Peace Irene.
Quote (Istari @ July 07 2011,01:37) Note again that Paul did not say 'Clime of HEAVEN' but:
'Heavenly Clime': State of Glory
It was not Paul who said “clime” at all. It was the author Irene posted.And “clime” is nothing but a poetic way of saying “climate”.
In other words, Irene's source was telling you what I've been telling you – that a spiritual body is a body adapted to living in a heavenly “climate”, as opposed to a natural body, which is adapted to living in an earthly “climate”.
Why are you so upset, Wizard? It's not like this is the only source that knows a spiritual body is the kind of body a spirit being has. You've recently posted a link to six other scholars who say the same thing.
All,
Maybe this will help somewhere?
Taken from here:
http://www.wholeperson-counseling.org/ministry/heart_entrance.html
From a New Testament perspective, we are to be the temple of God. “If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are” (I Corinthians 3:17). Using this analogy, our body is the Outer Court, our soul is the Holy Place, and the spirit is the Holy of Holies where the Ark with the Mercy Seat rests. Soul is made up of the mind, will, and emotions as the Holy Place also has three pieces of furniture: the golden lamp stand, the table of shew bread, and the altar of incense.
“Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in. Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle. Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in. Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah” (Psalms 24:7-10).
This a picture of opening the gates and the doors to allow the Ark of the Covenant to brought through the Outer Gate and into the Holy of Holies. The Ark itself was made of shittim wood overlaid with pure gold. The Ark is a picture of Jesus. The wood represents his humanity and the gold represents his deity.
There were three entrances: the gate to the Outer Court (Exodus. 27:16-19), the door/veil to the Holy Place (Exodus. 26:36-37, 36:37-38), the veil to the Holy of Holies ( Exodus 26:31-33).
The Outer Gate: “And for the gate of the court shall be an hanging of twenty cubits, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen, wrought with needlework: and their pillars shall be four, and their sockets four” (Exodus 27:16)
The Door To The Holy Place: “And thou shalt make an hanging for the door of the tent, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen, wrought with needlework. And thou shalt make for the hanging five pillars of shittim wood, and overlay them with gold, and their hooks shall be of gold: and thou shalt cast five sockets of brass for them” (Exodus 26:36-37).
The Veil to the Holy of Holies: “And thou shalt make a vail of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen of cunning work: with cherubims shall it be made: And thou shalt hang it upon four pillars of shittim wood overlaid with gold: their hooks shall be of gold, upon the four sockets of silver. And thou shalt hang up the vail under the taches, that thou mayest bring in thither within the vail the ark of the testimony: and the vail shall divide unto you between the holy place and the most holy” (Exodus 26:31-33).
The body receives information through the five senses: the eye gate, the ear gate, the touch gate, the smell gate, and the taste gate. These would be like the Outer Gate to the tabernacle or temple. For Jesus to come into one's life, the outer gate first must be opened. The individual goes to church and hears about Jesus or he reads in the Word about Jesus. “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me” (John 5:39). Intellectually, he comes to know about Jesus. This is good, but it is only head knowledge and has not penetrated the heart at this point. I have known people who have had a lot of head knowledge about Jesus and the Word of God, but the knowledge had yet to penetrate the heart.
The first door stands between the Outer Courtyard and the Holy Place. The soul of man (mind, will, and emotions) receives and assimilates by means of the door of the conscience. The conscience must also be opened. He must have a conscious awareness of the need for Jesus. He must also be willing to let go of sin. Recently I spoke with a man living in sin, but was in no wise willing to let go of the sin. Therefore, the door was not open to receive Jesus as his Lord.
In the book of Hebrews, it speaks of two veils. “And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all” (Hebrews 9:3). Again, the first door/veil is that of the conscience. However, the question is, “What is the door between the Holy Place and the Holy of Holies?” I have come to see that the second veil is the heart of man. Look at the following scriptures about the heart.
“The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit” (Psalms 34:18).
“Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?” (Acts 2:37).
“But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation” (Romans 10:8-10).
The truth of the Gospel must go beyond the mind and penetrate the heart. When this occurs and the individual gives his life to Jesus as Lord, then Jesus comes into the spirit of the man and the individual is made alive and becomes a new creation. “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new” (II Corinthians 5:17).
The catch is that the heart as the inner veil remains, in one sense, standing between the new man (the new spiritual creation) and the soul (the mind, will, and emotions). Look at what Jesus said to the church in the book of Revelation. “Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me” (Revelation 3:20). Jesus is in the spirit of the Believer and is knocking on the door to the soul. What is the door between the spirit and the soul? It can only be the heart. Jesus desires to fellowship with the Believer on a day by day basis. “And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me” (Luke 9:23). Again, a relationship is established when we give our lives to Jesus, but he also desires to fellowship with us each and every day. “And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart” (Jeremiah 29:13).
The intellect of man only touches the mind of man. Human knowledge is not the answer here. Human knowledge may cause one to puff up in pride. “Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth” (I Corinthians 8:1). “Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth” (II Timothy 3:7). “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned” (I Corinthians 2:14). “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned” (I Corinthians 2:14)
Hi Shimmer,
Did you mean to post that in your “Writings” thread? I'm not seeing a connection to this thread. Or am I missing something here?
Mikeboll must have been born in house of comedians.
The man is a perfect joker…
Mikeboll, explain 'Heavenly Clime'…
Also, I see you have nothing to say about ALL VAST NUMBERS OF ERRORS that your mate in spirit, Irene, is making.
Nor any response to my post other than trifling 'war of the words' according to your desparate and limited knowledge of English language and even less concerning Spiritual Wisdom.
What is 'Earthly Clime'? What is 'Heavenly Clime'?
Your desparate struggle leads you to WANT TO say that ANYTHING with the word 'Heavenly' means “Heaven” when you should know that “Heavenly” means “Glorious, Wonderful, Unblemished, Perfect” contextually…
Give me a sentence using 'Heavenly' that proves your case (Nah, just like 'Spiritual', you cannot – scaredy snake…!)
'That meal was HEAVENLY' (Glorious, perfectly cooked meal)
'That holiday was HEAVENLY' (Delightful holiday)
'That woman has a HEAVENLY body!' (Visually Perfect 'flesh and blood' body)Mikeboll, is there ever a chance that you will stop opposing me – nothing that he have ever said against me has come to fruition yet you continue to try ever point testing for a weakness – Mikeboll, are you sent by God, or Satan, to test me?
“Hold strong to Righteousness and Truth” “Every vessel is tested, and those found with flaws are smashed and thrown into the fire. But those that are Sound (No Mike, it means 'Unflawed') are put on the table of the King'And Irene,
At least you admit your error… That is a good start!But now you have started down the road of inventing ideas that are not found in Scriptures.
Irene, you MUST HAVE KNOWN you were doing that when you did it.
So the question is 'Why!' – why did you feel the need to do that.
Shimmer has shown you three incorrect points you made… All three points you made up…
How can you have been reading the posts here and believe that Istari does not believe in PRE-Existence of Jesus…?
How can you have been reading the posts here and believe that Istari does not believe that Jesus was raised in the same body he died in…?
How can you have read the very quotes you posted and still believe that 'Spiritual Body' means 'Spirit Body'…?You make up some baloney around 'Jesus revealed himself'. Irene, we all read that verse…not even Mad Mike questioned it as being authentic 'Jesus in his resurrected body' even though hevwoukd have loved to… (And as for your third person of your Trinity: Terraricca never says anything of valu. What a Trinity of baloney sauce you three make!)
Irene, post a proof that 'Spiritual Body' means 'Spirit Body'.
In fact, post something about 'Spirit Body'
.Irene, Mikeboll,
I challenge you to post ONE SINGLE CREDIBLE WRITING ON “Spirit Body”!
If you can then 350 forum pages of discussion has been for nothing!
Irene – and Mikeboll64 – if you are honest posters here in this forum, then please respond to the challenge..
From Shimmer's post:
Quote “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned” (I Corinthians 2:14). “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned” (I Corinthians 2:14) What is meant here by 'Natural man'?
And if there is a 'Natural Man, there is also a SPIRITUAL MAN'?
Does Galations 6:1 shows who these 'Spirirual men'? And are they men with Spirit Bodies?
In fact,
What does 'Spiritually discerned' mean?
How does flesh and blood man discern the things of God (In his SPIRIT? his Mind, his Spiritual intellect? Perhaps)Quote ut now you have started down the road of inventing ideas that are not found in Scriptures.
Irene, you MUST HAVE KNOWN you were doing that when you did it.
I invented nothing. I gave Scriptures and reasons why Christs body had to stay dead. You do not understand the ransom. Period……
Your post is all accusation against Mike and me. You give no reason why I am wrong.
And for your information, my dear Husband has helped me understand why Christ's earthly body had to stay dead. Taken away by God like God did with Moses.
You give Galatians as a rebuttal, yet it speaks of the Human Spiritual Soul, the Temple of God. That makes us Spiritual. Nothing to do with the resurrection of the dead.Mar 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.According to you then Christ took back the ransom, when He was resurrected in the same body He died in? That makes the ransom void.
1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
1Cr 15:46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
All these Scriptures talk about the Spiritual body, first the natural and then the spiritual. It does not say the natural body is resurrected, does it?
As far as the appearing to the Apostles. What did those Angels do? In fact Abraham served them food and drink. Did Maria Magdalene recognize Jesus? No, She thought He was the Gardner. Neither did they that walked with Christ. Only when Jesus broke bread, He let them see that it was He.
And the doors were closed when He appeared to the Apostles…..Again He took on a Human Body to show them it was He, just like the Angels did. Why because some doubted that He did rose from the dead.
Did Jesus go to Heaven to be seated at the right hand of His Father? With what body did He do so? Some claim it was the same body He walked on earth with. Yet John tells us differently.Jhn 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Since you believe in the preexisting of Jesus, like Shimmer said, why don't you understand that Jesus went back to Heaven with the same way He was before the world was? Not with the natural body, but with a Spiritual body…. God gives it bodies He sees fit, not us…..
Quote (Istari @ July 08 2011,21:02) In fact, What does 'Spiritually discerned' mean?
How does flesh and blood man discern the things of God (In his SPIRIT? his Mind, his Spiritual intellect? Perhaps)
Thats right, in the heart and mind.The 'Nous' or the Eye's of the Soul.
Intellect, reason, and speech go with the heart (region of the heart – especially with the feeling of love and compassion etc) in a spiritually healthy person.
“Therefore I urge you, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service. Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your nous. (Rom. 12:2)
If you continue reading that verse that you quoted (1 Corin 2:14-15) it say's:
“And the natural man doth not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for to him they are foolishness, and he is not able to know them, because spiritually they are discerned; and he who is spiritual, doth discern indeed all things, and he himself is by no one discerned.” – (Youngs Literal translation).
So, the natural man cannot discern the things of the spirit at all, but the spiritual man or woman can.
The spiritual man or woman can see and feel things that others cannot.
Natural man though cannot discern the spiritual person.I will not be an Eastern Orthodox but I do learn some things off them. Examples of this are the subject of Nous, something I have experienced and so I do know what they mean.
Heres something on the spiritual man,
From here:
http://www.pelagia.org/htm/b15.en.orthodox_spirituality.01.htm
The word “spirituality” (pnevmaticotis) comes from “spiritual” (pnevmatikos). Thus, spirituality is the state of the spiritual person. Spiritual man has a certain way of behaving, a certain mentality. He acts differently from the way non-spiritual people behave…
…Spirituality is not a manifestation of the energies of the soul as reason is, or the feelings are etc. This is important to state because many people tend to label a person spiritual who cultivates his reasoning abilities: a scientist, an artist, an actor, a poet etc. This interpretation is not accepted by the Orthodox Church. Certainly we are not against scientists, poets etc. but we cannot call them spiritual people in the strict orthodox sense of the word.
In the teaching of the Apostle Paul the spiritual man is clearly distinguished from the man of the soul. Spiritual is the man who has the energy of the Holy Spirit within. Whereas the man of the soul is he who has body and soul but has not acquired the Holy Spirit, which gives life to the soul. “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man” (1 Cor. 2, 14-15).
In the same Epistle, the Apostle Paul draws the distinction between the spiritual man and the man of the flesh. The man of the flesh is he who does not have the Holy Spirit within his heart but retains all the other psychosomatic functions of a human being. Therefore it is evident that the term “man of the flesh” does not refer to the body, but signifies the man of the soul who lacks the Most Holy Spirit, and who operates out of his so called “psychobiological” self. “And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?” (1 Cor. 3, 1-3).
If we combine the above mentioned passages with those referring to the Christians' adoption by grace, we ascertain that, according to the Apostle Paul, spiritual is the man who by grace has become son of God. “Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.operates out of his so called “psychobiological” self. “And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God” (Rom. 8, 12-16).
Spiritual is the man who is witness to the Holy Spirit within his heart and is thus well aware of the indwelling… In this way he realizes that he is son of God by grace; and within his heart therefore, he cries “Abba, Father”. According to the testimony of the Saints this heartfelt cry is essentially the noetic prayer or prayer of the heart.
St. Basil the Great in examining what is meant by “man becomes the temple of the Most Holy Spirit”, teaches -inspired by God- that the man who is the Temple of the Holy Spirit is not disturbed by temptations and constant cares; he seeks God and has communion with Him. Clearly the spiritual man is he who has the Holy Spirit within and this is confirmed by his uninterrupted remembrance of God.
According to St. Gregory Palamas, just as the man endowed with reason is called rational, in the same way the man who is enriched with the Holy Spirit is called spiritual. Thus spiritual is the “new man”; the regenerated by the grace of the Most Holy Spirit.
This same outlook is shared by all of the Fathers. St. Symeon the New Theologian, for example, says that the man who is prudent, forbearing and meek, and who prays and beholds God, “walks in the spirit”. He is pre-eminently the spiritual man, par excellence.
Again according to St. Symeon the New Theologian, when the parts of man's soul -his nous and intellect- are not “clothed” in the image of Christ, he is considered a man of the flesh, since he does not have the sense of spiritual glory. The man of the flesh is like the blind person who cannot see the light from the sun's rays. In fact he is considered both blind and lifeless. In contrast, the spiritual man, who partakes in the energies of the Holy Spirit, is alive in God.
As we emphasised, previously, communion in the Most Holy Spirit makes the man of the flesh spiritual. For this reason, according to Orthodox teaching, the spiritual man, par excellence, is the Saint. Certainly, this is said from the point of view that a Saint is he who partakes, in varying degrees, in the uncreated grace of God, and especially in the deifying energy of God.
The Saints are bearers and manifestations of Orthodox spirituality. They live in God and consecutively they speak about Him. In this sense, Orthodox spirituality is not abstracted but is embodied in the personhood of the Saints. Hence the Saints are not the good people, the moralists in the strict sense of the term, or simply those who are good natured. Rather, saint is the person who submits to and acts upon the guidance of the Most Holy Spirit within.
Irene,
Jesus showed his hands and feet after the ressurection and said 'Look – touch me and see – a spirit does not have flesh and bone like I have” Thats what JESUS said.
Irene, youv'e been reading too many books and magazines. Have faith and believe what Jesus said. What you state – that they never recognised him – is just what the JWs told me. But Jesus was risen from the dead. He was not just a spirit appearing as if he were a Ghost.
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God because you have to be reborn of spirit and water.
This is like saying: You cannot eat chicken raw you have to cook it first. Bad example I know, but, still.
Quote (shimmer @ July 08 2011,22:30) Irene, Jesus showed his hands and feet after the ressurection and said 'Look – touch me and see – a spirit does not have flesh and bone like I have” Thats what JESUS said.
Irene, youv'e been reading too many books and magazines. Have faith and believe what Jesus said. What you state – that they never recognised him – is just what the JWs told me. But Jesus was risen from the dead. He was not just a spirit appearing as if he were a Ghost.
Shimmer ……….Both this post and the one above it are Excellent Posts Sis, And i might add, “right on little one”>Peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
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