Do spirits have bodies?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 01 2011,08:43)

Istari…………..He can't answer that question because it would contradict what he was saying. Mike is a Shall Gamer switching around and diverting attention away from sound truths.

Says the person who thinks angels DO have bodies, but won't accept that angels ARE spirits.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Rena @ July 01 2011,13:03)

Mike, I was thinking, “Now it happened on the day when God's sons came to present themselves before Yahweh, that Satan also came among them.” – Job 1:6 This is Angels. You said that because they presented themself before God then God must have a body of some kind, ok, When Man prays, they present themself to God in prayer, true? So when people all over the world present themself before God in prayer, all at the same time, in all different locations, it would make more sense that God is spirit, as it says, and doesnt nessesarily mean God has a body and is in one place for us to present ourselves before him.

Hi Rena,

Like many words, “presence” is one that has many conotations.  We can be living in God's presence metaphorically, but we know that God Himself lives in unapproachable light and that flesh can't enter heaven.  So we can't LITERALLY be in His presence.

Scriptures are open to interpretation and conjecture, but I think the fact that God asked Satan WHERE he had been implies that Satan came FROM somewhere that was NOT in God's presence TO God's presence.

peace and love,
mike

[terraricca]

Charles

Quote

Terraricca, Quote   first you have to establish if all creation is out side of God or inside of God , Both!! Charles God bless

since your answer says BOTH; well 1) explain in what sence I have to understand it that it is INSIDE,?
2) explain in what sence I have to understand it that it is OUTSIDE,?

if you need help I think EDJ looks like he can help.

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

I'm also curious to find out how everything exists INSIDE of the Being of God. Ed? Charles?

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 03 2011,13:39)

I'm also curious to find out how everything exists INSIDE of the Being of God.  Ed?  Charles?

Hi Mike,

Would you like me to wait and give csaliba a chance to answer this?
Pierre believes I will have no trouble answering this question.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Istari]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 03 2011,12:44)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 01 2011,08:43) Istari…………..He can't answer that question because it would contradict what he was saying. Mike is a Shall Gamer switching around and diverting attention away from sound truths. Says the person who thinks angels DO have bodies, but won't accept that angels ARE spirits.

So, Mike, why Don't you answer?

Is it because you can't?

If a Spirit is IN A BODY, is the Spirit in that Body itself a Body?

And why is a Spirit called a Spirit if it is in a Body?

[Istari]

Mike,
You say you are a novice. Did you just say so to try and duck away from being exposed as ignorant?

If you yourself say that you are a novice – and indeed that you 'don't know ANYTHING', then why do you INSIST for 341 pages that you are right?

Why do you misinterpret the definition of 'Spiritual' by hanging on to the tenuous link to 'That which belongs to a Spirit'?

I asked you to give a few sentences to show the use of 'Spiritual' in your (tenuous) understanding of the term but somehow you ducked and dived away.

This is strange behaviour because I would have thought that one who was so CERTAIN of his belief and understanding – and so definite about his interpretation – and so aggressive about his ideas – would be more than ready to COME BEFORE ME/US FROM YOUR MEANDERINGS and PLACE such evidence at this table…

P.s. God KNEW where Satan had 'Been' – why did you stop at God asking Satan the question when the very next verse made it clear that the question was rhetorical?
Why then not say that God did not SEE Adam and Eve HIDING from him after realising they were 'naked'… For it seems that although God KNOWS, He does not always INSIST on direct exposure of his knowledge (One is not ALWAYS IN HIS PRESENCE) but God wants the one to COME, THEM SELF, INTO HIS PRESENCE: God knows our afflictions but asks that we COME INTO HIS PRESENCE IN PRAYER…

God WANTS us to WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT – SPIRITUAL WORSHIP (not in BODY or Flesh) – This means Worshipping in MIND, in KNOWLEDGE AND TRUTH, in RIGHTEOUSNESS.

See Mike, Istari is not afraid to give examples of the use of SPIRITUAL – why are you afraid?

Now why not Prove YOUR CASE…!!

Mike, Come out from the arid place, let your Spirit, your mind and intellect, your thoughts, come into God's house and present yourself before God!!

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 03 2011,12:44)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 01 2011,08:43) Istari…………..He can't answer that question because it would contradict what he was saying. Mike is a Shall Gamer switching around and diverting attention away from sound truths. Says the person who thinks angels DO have bodies, but won't accept that angels ARE spirits.

Mike……..Yes i do believe Angels have bodies of some kind, for several reasons , one where it says God creates his angels spirits can be taken two ways , one is like you take it , which is God makes his Angels (spirit BEINGS) and the other is He makes the Spirit (IN) his Angels, I prefer to read it He make the Spirits (IN the Angels and then send them out to minister. I see the Angels as individual beings having Spirit given them by GOD that is (IN) them.

You on the other hand make the Angels Spirit Beings. I believe that only GOD is Spirit and gives His spirits to his creation . I also believe God is composed of SEVEN DISTINCT SPIRITS and the seven which includes the Spirit (intellect) of an adversary which is one of those Spirit. All of these Spirit s go to and fro throughout all creation because they are (IN) all life forms that exist on this earth in one form or another.

All Spirit  (INTELLECTS) are from ONE SOURCE AND ONE SOURCE ALONE and that Source is GOD the FATHER, and that includes the Spirits the Angels Have (IN) them also. IMO

[mikeboll64]

Hi Gene,

Thank you for your good and concise answer.  I have two points for you to consider:

1.  You have to ADD the word “IN” into the scripture to make your understanding be realized…………….I don't.  My understanding takes the words of the scripture as they are written.

2.  Why would you suppose that God, as a spirit being, would not create His “sons of God” (as angels are often called) as other spirit beings?  Do you think God is only capable of making flesh beings and not spirit beings?

peace,
mike

[terraricca]

Gene

Quote

and the other is He makes the Spirit (IN) his Angels, I prefer to read it He make the Spirits (IN the Angels and then send them out to minister. I see the Angels as individual beings having Spirit given them by GOD that is (IN) them.

who then create the thing in wich God placed the spirit angels IN so that he can go minister,?

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Istari @ July 03 2011,01:12)

Now why not Prove YOUR CASE…!!

You have already proved my case for me.  It was you who lead us all to a link where no less than six scriptural experts agreed with the understanding this novice has been supporting for over a year on this thread.

Paul, who knew he would exist in heaven forevermore, was anxious to have his lowly flesh and blood body transformed into a new glorious one like Jesus now has in heaven – one like the angels in heaven have always had.

It is only you who believes that Paul was anxious to have his lowly flesh and blood body transformed into a body like the one Jesus DISCARDED – just so he could immediately discard his own new glorious body.  

Those of us who will live in heaven die in an immortal, corrupted, lowly body of flesh only to be raised in a spiritual body that is adapted to our new environment………….heaven.

Picture a ghost from any movie.  It can flow right through the walls of a house, right?  BUT……………as soon as it flows through the wall into one room, it is NO LONGER in the room it came from, right?  It is because the being of that ghost is contained within that vaporous mist which is its body.

Or picture a hologram, like Ed brought up.  A human might be able to put his hand right through that body, but it is a body nonetheless, because the being that this hologram body belongs to is WITHIN that hologram, and does NOT exist outside of it.

I've said from page one of this thread that a “body” is anything that separates one being from another, or distinguishes that entity as being HERE instead of THERE at any given time.  That body could seem to us as a hologram, or the ghost who flows through walls, or even as a mist or a cloud.  Either way, it is still a “body”, for it EMBODIES an individual being and separates that being from all other beings and things.

I've addressed the fact that if spirits are “everywhere all the time”, they could not come from or go to anywhere.  Yet it is said that they do exactly that in the scriptures.  I've explained that if they were all “everywhere all the time”, there would be no place where those spirits weren't, and therefore they would all be inside and outside of each other, blending into one big being, instead of being myriads upon myriads of individual beings.

Yeah, I think I've “proved my case” very well, over and over.  It is you, who like Lucy Ricardo, has some splainin' to do.  

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ July 02 2011,23:14)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 03 2011,13:39) I'm also curious to find out how everything exists INSIDE of the Being of God.  Ed?  Charles? Hi Mike, Would you like me to wait and give csaliba a chance to answer this? Pierre believes I will have no trouble answering this question. God bless Ed J

It's your world, boss.  

But I should clarify that I'm curious to find out how everything is BOTH inside AND outside of God.

[Istari]

Mikeboll,
Swishing around is not helping to PROVE your case.

Please PROVE your case: Does a Spirit have a Body?

And if a Spirit HAS A BODY what is the SPIRIT in that Body?

The link I gave DOES NOT PROVE YOUR CASE. You have merely done what Paladin accused you of: Selected bitty parts from what was said to cobble together your own version of what was ACTUALLY SAID…

Your swishing and slithering merely shows that you HAVE NO PROOF and just clutching at straws…

Mike, please just address the SINGLE QUESTION I asked…

Mike, everyone in this Forum is 'Anxiously awaiting' your incredulous response to this simple question.

I am excited to read how you going to get around this one.

If a Spirits has a Body (is in a body) then what is THE SPIRIT that is ON THAT BODY?

Does the SPIRIT that is IN THE BODY ITSELF A BODY?

[Istari]

Mike,

Do you see the dilemma… At what point does the SPIRIT BODY stop?
The Spirit has a Body… So what is the Spirit…
The Spirit is … A body … Containing a Spirit…
So what IS the SPIRIT… A spirit in a body …
But that is what living Flesh is – Bodies with Spirit in them…

So exactly what DID God create that was unique – what is God's great creation…?

Mike, do you understand what you are doing – do you understand how you are undermining the glory of God?

[Istari]

Mike,

Until the SPIRIT stops having a BODY your definition of Spirit is an everlasting Recursive definition.
You say:
A Spirit is [In a Body] – A Spirit [Has a Body]
The SPIRIT in the BODY of the Spirit… Does it have a Body?
Yes, mike says, for a Spirit has a Body…
The SPIRIT in the BODY of the BODY of the Spirit… Does it have a Body?
The SPIRIT in the BODY of the BODY of the BODY of the Spirit… Does it have a Body?
… Ad nauseum …
Mike, where does it stop…
Mike, only when you can say 'The Spirit STOPS having a Body'…

Mike, does mankind have a Body – Yes.
Is there a SPIRIT in the living body of mankind – Yes.
Does the SPIRIT in the body of mankind have a Body – No. It is the INTELLECT in that body!

See – Simple.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Istari @ July 03 2011,10:37)

Mike, please just address the SINGLE QUESTION I asked…

How rich!      

I'll make you a deal, Sunshine:

I'll DIRECTLY address your ONE question if you PROMISE that you will address the 30 questions from me that you've avoided since this thread started……………AND……….each and every subsequent direct question I ever ask you on any thread.

Is it a deal?

Because I LOVE to have Q and A debates where each person gets to ask one question that the other MUST answer DIRECTLY.

Are we on?  Let me know, so I can drudge up one of those 30 unanswered points for you to answer BEFORE I answer your current question.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Istari @ July 03 2011,10:37)

The link I gave DOES NOT PROVE YOUR CASE. You have merely done what Paladin accused you of: Selected bitty parts from what was said to cobble together your own version of what was ACTUALLY SAID…

Really?  It was YOU who posted that link……….not ME.  Can I help it if all of those scholars understand “spiritual bodies” like I do and NOT like you do?  

And before you jump in about Paladin, perhaps you should read a little more into what he's been trying to claim first.

What I've noticed on this site is that the people (starting with KJ and WJ) who are unhappy about me backing them into a corner with their unscriptural claims lash out at me personally.  I'm cool with that.  It shows I'm doing my job.  

[Istari]

Mike,

You have not proved anything except that your expertise is in deception.

You refuse to address the Single question I posed to you because you cannot.

So, you swish around making fatuous claims that don't hold water.

Just answer the single question, Mike.

Refusal to answer is an admittance that you Cannot because you Cannot…

What is a Spirit if a Spirit has a Body… See, Mike, it is Recursive.
If a Spirit has a body then you have invented a new creature which you cannot define.

To say that a Spirit has a body and then refuse to define what that body is – and what the SPIRIT in that body is – is to bring Recursive definitions into play:
A Spirit is a Spirit within a body.
A Spirit is a Spirit within a Body but the Spirit in that body gas a body.
Why, because your definition of Spirit is that it HAS A BODY…

Mike, ONLY when you STOP using a main word from the definition can you stop the RECURSION of the definition.

So at some point the SPIRIT has to STOP being defined as HAVING A BODY…

Does man have a Body: Yes.
Is there a Spirit in that Body: Yes.
Does that Spirit have a Body: if No then Stop…
Does that Spirit have a Body: if Yes then What is that BODY MADE OF?

Nowhere in Scriptures does anyone make any claim of Spirit Body.
SPIRITUAL BODY is not SPIRIT BODY…

How can there be a SPIRIT BODY when SPIRIT is OPPOSED to BODY!
BODY is an encasement – SPIRIT is the enlivener of that encasement.

Mike, you create your own version of BODY and try to pass that off as reality.

Why give your OWN VERSION OF BODY.
why not give a version understood by everyone.

Anyone can make up a definition of what they believe but it is not valid.
For sure 'Body' is a VERSION of what you say – but that is a strained version… As EDJ says 'If you put it THAT WAY'! but is it a VALID WAY – No!

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Istari @ July 03 2011,12:34)

You have not proved anything except that your expertise is in deception.

Yes Istari, I was being deceptive when those six scholars YOU brought up agreed with ME!

Quote (Istari @ July 03 2011,12:34)

Just answer the single question, Mike. Refusal to answer is an admittance that you Cannot because you Cannot…

Does that also apply to YOU concerning the 30 or so direct questions from Pierre and me that YOU didn't answer?

I have the perfect answer AND analogy waiting for your question. And once you agree to the terms I've outlined in my previous post, I'll once again explain your misunderstanding to you. But a discussion is a TWO-WAY street, Istari. YOU must also answer MY questions………….agreed?

I can see how you took Paladin's side in the other thread. You are both the same. Instead of dealing with the hard-core facts I corner you with, you both attempt to avoid those facts and instead make long, unorganized, meandering posts that do anything BUT address the points I've made.

Two peas in a pod!

[Istari]

Mike,

You know you have lost the discussion so you drift into accusations.

Why not just answer the question if you feel you are correct. Why are you afraid to answer a 'simple' question?

If a Spirit has a Body then what is the SPIRIT in that BODY?

See, Mike, no matter how you try to cut it you still do not answer – you simply redefine the question in your own way.

You say that the Spirit HAS a Body – but then WHAT IS THE SPIRIT IN that body?

You say that the Spirit HAS a Body – but then WHAT IS THAT BODY made of?

You misinterpret the term 'SPIRITUAL' and CANNOT GIVE A SINGLE example of what you mean by SPIRITUAL – Why?

Spiritual Warmth
Spiritual Truth
Spiritual War
Spiritual Eyes
Spiritual Wealth
Spiritual Church
Spiritual Brotherhood (Likemindedness, unity of thought and mind in God)
Spiritual Wisdom (Wisdom of God in the Spirit)
Spiritual Gifts (Godly Learning, Love, Strength, remembrance, …)
Spiritual Parents (esp. Father) (Paul was the Spiritual Father of Onesimus)
Spiritual Affirmity (Spirit of Affirmity)
Spiritual Body

Mi

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