Do spirits have bodies?

[Istari]

EDJ,
No need for quote – you cannot commandeer Truth. And what you said was indeed TRUTH concerning Mike, spoken of by others before INCLUDING MYSELF.

He has run away from this thread with tears in his eyes and a lump in his throat after realising he hasn't got a leg to stand on.

Further more, he tells of Gene yet is saying exactly the same as Gene (They are both wrong concerning Spirits in Heaven. Their arguments centre around HUMAN Spirits ONLY)

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ June 25 2011,06:54)

Quote (Ed J @ June 25 2011,13:33) Hi Istari, If the answer one gives is not the type of answer Mike can leverage into proving you are wrong, then you have not answered his question. Fell free to quote me on this; I've seen this pattern time and time again. God bless   Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj you have scriptural never proved he was wrong ,or did you ? then I must have mist it could you recall where that was and show it to me ? Pierre

Hi Pierre,

Wrong about what?

God bless  
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Quote (kerwin @ June 24 2011,10:19)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 23 2011,10:32) Hi Kerwin, This discussion started because you sided with Gene that angels aren't “spirits” like the scripture says.  But I'm here to tell you that God is a Spirit AND a Being, therefore a Spirit Being.  Same with angels and demons. God's Holy Spirit is not a being, but a part of the Being of God. My spirit is not a being, but a part OF the being of Mike. So yes, I understand that meaning of spirit as well as the “spirit being” meaning.  When angels and demons are called “spirits”, it is the “spirit being” meaning, as is clearly shown by the scripture you will be reexamining. It was the demons who asked to be sent into the pigs, and it the evil spirits that were sent into the pigs.  Ipso facto, the demons ARE the evil spirits. peace, mike Mike, It is obvious that angels are not spirits at they can both be touched and eat. Jesus was the one who proposed that test to prove he was not a spirit. Of course some may believe Jesus was being deceptive and thus proposing a false test. Since proved he was not a spirit and angels have also exhibited the same evidence then it follows they also are not spirits. Some say Jesus proposed a test to prove he was not a spirit and then turned around and transformed into a spiriit rendering the test useless.  I do not see him doing such a thing. I actually just pointed out that angels being callled ministering spirit did not make them beings composed of spirit as a human being can also be called a ministering spirit if her disposition is to minister. From there we got into and interesting investigation about demons and evil spirits and I pointed out that according to a certain scriptural idea the evil spirit may not actually be the demon itself but rather the media through which a demon dwells within a person. For example is a deaf and dumb spirit a demon whom lacks both hearing and speech or is it a spirit that causess the one it acts on to be deaf and dumb just like a running spirit leads the one it acts on to run? The bottom line is do you understand what God living in a human being through the Holy Spirit means.  Do understand that if the Holy Spirit departs then so does God? If so then you should understand that in the same way a devil can dwell in a human being through an unholy spirit.

I believe this conversation is off topic and better handled elsewhere. If I am moved to do so I will start a tread on it elsewhere. Thank you for the conversation.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Istari @ June 25 2011,07:04)

Further more, he tells of Gene yet is saying exactly the same as Gene (They are both wrong concerning Spirits in Heaven. Their arguments centre around HUMAN Spirits ONLY)

Istari…….. Spirit is Spirit no matter where it is in Heave or in the earth. Again for the hundredth time Spirit is not flesh or a being it is what is (IN) a Being, Rather GOD or man or angels makes no difference Spirit is Intellect or cognate thought, It exists in all creation on this earth from a one celled organism to a giant whale , nothing that has life is void of Spirit or it could not live or exist, Just that simple.Istari Please do not put me in a pot with Mike i completely disagree with his renditions of “Spirit BODIES”, Spirit is useless without a Body, it goes about in “ARID” Space looking for rest. It must have a Body to rest In or it is useless. God created his creation to exist (IN) and (THROUGH)> Not for it to disappear and go back in to some endless nothingness. Don't sell physical existence short it will exist for ever and Physical life forms will also continue to exist with Spirit (IN) them also for ever and Jesus is an example and proof of that, IMO

peace and love…………………………………gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ June 23 2011,22:19)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 23 2011,10:32) God's Holy Spirit is not a being, but a part of the Being of God. My spirit is not a being, but a part OF the being of Mike. So yes, I understand that meaning of spirit as well as the “spirit being” meaning.  It was the demons who asked to be sent into the pigs, and it the evil spirits that were sent into the pigs.  Ipso facto, the demons ARE the evil spirits. peace, mike Mike, It is obvious that angels are not spirits at they can both be touched and eat. Jesus was the one who proposed that test to prove he was not a spirit.

Hi Kerwin,

The only “test” Jesus proposed is that spirits (spirit beings) don't have flesh and bone.  Not that they can't eat or be touched.

Quote (kerwin @ June 23 2011,22:19)

I actually just pointed out that angels being callled ministering spirit did not make them beings composed of spirit as a human being can also be called a ministering spirit if her disposition is to minister.

Yes, and I pointed out that you were wrong about that.  The DEMONS who asked to go into the pigs WERE the EVIL SPIRITS that Jesus allowed to go into the pigs.

Kerwin, aren't human BEINGS sometimes just called “humans”?  Then why can't spirit BEINGS sometimes just be called “spirits”?

Quote (kerwin @ June 23 2011,22:19)

I pointed out that according to a certain scriptural idea the evil spirit may not actually be the demon itself but rather the media through which a demon dwells within a person.

Read the supersized part of my quote above.  I agree that spirit can mean either the spirit BEING itself, or something similar to God sending an evil spirit upon Saul.  

In 1 Samuel 16:23, I do not believe that God sent a demon into Saul.  

In Hebrews 1:14 however, I do believe that Paul was calling angels “ministering spirit BEINGS”.

And in 1 Cor 15:45, I do believe that Paul was saying that Jesus became a “spirit BEING”.

Like I said, I recognize BOTH uses of “spirit”.

You are free to disagree with me.  

peace,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ June 23 2011,22:45)

Hi Mike, Of course there are limits to where the angels are and are not.

Hi Ed,

I was asking you WHAT it is that “limits” them from being everywhere all the time.

Quote (Ed J @ June 23 2011,22:45)

You do not believe that YHVH is everywhere?

From Solomon's prayer when he dedicated God's Temple:

2 Chronicles 6
18 But will God really dwell on earth with men?

21 Hear the supplications of your servant and of your people Israel when they pray toward this place. Hear from heaven, your dwelling place; and when you hear, forgive.

25 then hear from heaven and forgive the sin of your people Israel

30 then hear from heaven, your dwelling place.

From Jesus' instructions on how to pray:
Matthew 6:9
“This, then, is how you should pray: “‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name……………

Mark 11:25
And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins. ”

John 17:1
After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.

Ed, I believe our Father dwells in heaven.  I believe that when it is said that our Father is “in us” or “in Jesus”, it is a poetic way of saying that God does works through Jesus and others FROM His dwelling place in heaven.

I believe it is the Spirit of God that is “omnipresent”, in that He can send out that “feeler” anywhere He wants in order to gather or send information, while the Being of God Himself remains in heaven – His dwelling place.

peace,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ June 24 2011,13:33)

Hi Istari, If the answer one gives is not the type of answer Mike can leverage into proving you are wrong, then you have not answered his question.

Rather Ed, when one is scared of having their doctrine proved wrong, they will side-skirt the question and play games.  I did not know people were like this until I joined this forum (the first and only forum I've ever joined).  Since that time, I've gotten very adept at re-wording and tweaking my questions to the point that there is no more “wiggle room” left for the person who bends over backwards and does anything he can just to avoid DIRECTLY answering the simple and direct question I've asked them.

Let's see if you answer my question about WHAT “limits” angels from being “everywhere all the time”………….or if you continue to side-skirt it with silliness like “they're not YHWH – that's why!”

The problem is, that many people here are just like you, Ed.  Many people also pretend that answers like “they're not YHWH – that's why!” ARE credible answers to my questions.  Deep down they know those answers are fluff, and as a defense, they jump on the “Mike keeps asking even though we've answered him” bandwagon. In this way, they try to put the focus on MIKE being a hardheaded idiot and divert that focus AWAY FROM the fact that they DIDN'T really answer my question.

You guys can keep screaming that until the cows come home for all I care.  It will not stop me from tweaking my questions and jumping through all the hoops you put before me in my effort to get the REAL answer to my simple and direct questions.  

peace,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ June 24 2011,15:15)

Quote (terraricca @ June 25 2011,06:54) Quote (Ed J @ June 25 2011,13:33) Hi Istari, If the answer one gives is not the type of answer Mike can leverage into proving you are wrong, then you have not answered his question. Fell free to quote me on this; I've seen this pattern time and time again. God bless   Ed J edj you have scriptural never proved he was wrong ,or did you ? then I must have mist it could you recall where that was and show it to me ? Pierre Hi Pierre, Wrong about what? God bless   Ed J

Case in point, Ed.  Pierre's wording indicates that you have not shown me to be scripturally wrong on ANYTHING EVER.  That's what the easy to understand English word “NEVER” meant in his statement.

And how did YOU answer this simple and DIRECT question?  By making a diversion TO the question instead of answering it.  Now if Pierre tweaks his question and asks it again, let me demonstrate what your next response will likely be:

Pierre is becoming just like Mike.  We answer his questions, but just because our answers are not the answer HE wants, he keeps asking the same question over and over!”  

You two were having a good discussion, Ed.  Pierre made the mistake of leaving “wiggle room” in a couple of his points.  You took advantage of that wiggle room (as if the point of HN is to see how good you can become at AVOIDING questions about scriptural things ) and tried diversions to his points.  But then he came back again with a tweaked version that had no wiggle room, and so you played dumb and said, “I didn't see a question there”.  

Do you guys really think you are smart enough to play these games while we're so dumb we can't recognize them for the games they are?  

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 25 2011,07:10)

Again for the hundredth time Spirit is not flesh or a being it is what is (IN) a Being,

Mark 5
12 The demons begged Jesus, “Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them.” 13 He gave them permission, and the evil spirits came out and went into the pigs.

Gene, if this scripture doesn't convince you that the “evil spirits” WERE the “demons”, then it will only be par for the course with you.  You have clearly demonstrated that YOUR OWN understanding takes precedence over the words of the scriptures themselves on many other issues, so why would this one be any different?

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 25 2011,07:10)

Istari Please do not put me in a pot with Mike

I don't believe you would be comfortable in my “pot” Gene.  My “pot” is filled with people like t8 and Irene and Pierre that actually form their understandings around the scriptures instead of forming the scriptures around their understanding.  

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 26 2011,09:33)

Quote (Ed J @ June 24 2011,15:15) Quote (terraricca @ June 25 2011,06:54) Quote (Ed J @ June 25 2011,13:33) Hi Istari, If the answer one gives is not the type of answer Mike can leverage into proving you are wrong, then you have not answered his question. Fell free to quote me on this; I've seen this pattern time and time again. God bless   Ed J edj you have scriptural never proved he was wrong ,or did you ? then I must have mist it could you recall where that was and show it to me ? Pierre Hi Pierre, Wrong about what? God bless   Ed J Case in point, Ed.  Pierre's wording indicates that you have not shown me to be scripturally wrong on ANYTHING EVER.  That's what the easy to understand English word “NEVER” meant in his statement. And how did YOU answer this simple and DIRECT question?  By making a diversion TO the question instead of answering it.  Now if Pierre tweaks his question and asks it again, let me demonstrate what your next response will likely be: Pierre is becoming just like Mike.  We answer his questions, but just because our answers are not the answer HE wants, he keeps asking the same question over and over!”   You two were having a good discussion, Ed.  Pierre made the mistake of leaving “wiggle room” in a couple of his points.  You took advantage of that wiggle room (as if the point of HN is to see how good you can become at AVOIDING questions about scriptural things ) and tried diversions to his points.  But then he came back again with a tweaked version that had no wiggle room, and so you played dumb and said, “I didn't see a question there”.   Do you guys really think you are smart enough to play these games while we're so dumb we can't recognize them for the games they are?

Mike

thanks

I was waiting for your reply to edj

because it is not worth, to me to answer his stupid questions

and you are right it is his logic to act the way you describe it.

Pierre

[Istari]

Has anyone read Galations 6:1?

Can someone explain specifically the part that says, '… You who are Spiritual…'

[Rena]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 26 2011,03:01)

From Solomon's prayer when he dedicated God's Temple: 2 Chronicles 6 18 But will God really dwell on earth with men? 21 Hear the supplications of your servant and of your people Israel when they pray toward this place. Hear from heaven, your dwelling place; and when you hear, forgive. 25 then hear from heaven and forgive the sin of your people Israel 30 then hear from heaven, your dwelling place. From Jesus' instructions on how to pray: Matthew 6:9 “This, then, is how you should pray: “‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name…………… Mark 11:25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins. ” John 17:1 After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. Ed, I believe our Father dwells in heaven.  I believe that when it is said that our Father is “in us” or “in Jesus”, it is a poetic way of saying that God does works through Jesus and others FROM His dwelling place in heaven. I believe it is the Spirit of God that is “omnipresent”, in that He can send out that “feeler” anywhere He wants in order to gather or send information, while the Being of God Himself remains in heaven – His dwelling place. peace, mike

Mike, good points, I agree with you.

[terraricca]

hi Mike

Quote

I believe it is the Spirit of God that is “omnipresent”, in that He can send out that “feeler” anywhere He wants in order to gather or send information, while the Being of God Himself remains in heaven – His dwelling place. peace, mike

yes and if we consider that his spirit =his will  because at all time without stop it is cared for ,this is what keeps all things under his control.

Paul says that ;All of creation is testify about God;and so men have no excuse for rejecting him or his son,

I was watching a show called NOVA about the universe;I was amazed of the greatness of God s creation ,compere that to men yes we are less than a grain of sand,

we have now pictures of some 8 light years away from us the earth ,this is very far,and still not even close to God ,I told in my heart ;yes this is my God,who did all those things.

Pierre

[Istari]

1 Cor 15:53~

What is the Perishable Body that must PUT ON the Impersishable?
And the Mortal Body that must PUT ON Immortality?

Is it the FLESH and BLOOD/BONE Body, or a (Hitherto unknown) SPIRIT BODY?

Since the Spirit is ALREADY IMMORTAL and IMPERISHABLE I am confused by what Mikeboll64 alludes to…!!!
Does this mean that the body with a spirit in it will become a Spirit Bodied Being?
Yes, says Mikeboll…

But there is only one problem: THAT IS NOT WHAT THE SCRIPTURE WRITER WROTE!!

There is a SPIRIT – and there is a BODY.
The BODY is DEAD without a Spirit in it…
A body can be created – and when a Spirit is put in it it becomes ALIVE, ACTIVE, ANIMATED.
In human beings : The Spirit is Strong – but the Flesh is Weak. What does this mean?

It means that although the Spirit is pure, the Flesh has desires and effectively pursuaded the Spirit to direct it to fulfil it's selfish desire.
Think what it is that makes someone an ADDICT… Drugs, Alcohol, Sex, Violence… The body CRAVES the Sinful act – and the Spirit fulfills it by directing the body in the act!
The Spirit can also be INFLUENCED by non-physical forces: Demon Spirits (Evil THOUGHTS)

The SPIRIT ACTS ON THE DESIRE of the body, the flesh, SERVES the body's desire.

So, the body desires what it should not – and falls into corruption and decay – and cannot sustain the Spirit – and Dies…

But the SINLESS BODY does not crave such sinful desires – It resists the temptations, in fact has no feelings for the sinful act.
Does Sex satisfy the Spirit – or the Flesh?
Do Drugs and Alcohol satisfy the Flesh – or the Body?

The Spiritual Body – the HOLY BODY…the Sinless Body.
Galations 6:1 speaks of those who are SPIRITUAL helping those who have been misled.

Is the writer speaking of Angels/Spirits bringing the unrighteous back to righteousness?
So WHO are those who are SPIRITUAL – who was the writer speaking to at the time?
Were they LIVING BEINGS – or awaiting 'The Last Trumpet' (1 Cor 15:52)

[Rena]

Quote (Istari @ June 26 2011,10:26)

Has anyone read Galations 6:1? Can someone explain specifically the part that says, '… You who are Spiritual…'

Istari,

You who are spiritual are the spiritual ones which is different. They have a good sense of discernment and have gentleness and humbleness. They should be the ones to try and restore a person. But in doing so, they should be carefull,

Galatians 1
Brothers, even if a man is caught in some fault, you who are spiritual must restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; looking to yourself so that you also aren't tempted.

[Istari]

From Mikeboll:

Quote

I believe that it is the SPIRIT OF GOD that is OMNIPRESENT

So, Mike, NOW you believe that a SPIRIT can be EVERYWHERE…

Ha ha ha – he he he … I am so tickled … Good call, Mike..

So, start with the HOLY Spirit… Then ALL SPIRITS…

Spirits are EVERYWHERE…

See, Mike… What did I say about you?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ June 25 2011,16:56)

I was watching a show called NOVA about the universe;I was amazed of the greatness of God s creation ,compere that to men yes we are less than a grain of sand, we have now pictures of some 8 light years away from us the earth ,this is very far,and still not even close to God ,I told in my heart ;yes this is my God,who did all those things.

NOVA is a top rate program.  It is informational television at its finest!

My heart also says “Yes, it was my God who did all these things”.  And such WONDERFUL things at that.

Imagine buying some guinea pigs and putting them in a cage and feeding them.  That's all they really need to live.

But our God is more like the guy who soups up that cage and has waterfalls and flowers and other plants and other creatures to interact with etc, etc, etc.

Jehovah didn't have to make our dwelling place so wrought with beauty and wonder and mystery in order for us to survive.  But He did it anyway, in order for us to truly live!  

And I publically praise Him for being such a wonderfully caring parent.  

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Istari @ June 25 2011,17:48)

From Mikeboll: Quote I believe that it is the SPIRIT OF GOD that is OMNIPRESENT So, Mike, NOW you believe that a SPIRIT can be EVERYWHERE… Ha ha ha – he he he … I am so tickled … Good call, Mike.. So, start with the HOLY Spirit… Then ALL SPIRITS… Spirits are EVERYWHERE… See, Mike… What did I say about you?

You finally decided to use a quote box, and you can't even quote me correctly?  You left out the quotation marks in “omnipresent”.  I don't personally believe ANYTHING, including God Himself, is “omnipresent” – which is why I used the quotation marks.

Consider that in Gen 1, the Spirit was “hovering over the waters”.  That statement would make no sense if God's Spirit was truly “omnipresent”, for it would then ALWAYS be “hovering over the waters”, right?

And Jesus would not have had to SEND the other helper to us, for it would have ALWAYS already BEEN WITH US.

So as you can see from SCRIPTURE, as opposed to your own imagination, even the Holy Spirit of God is not “everywhere all the time”.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Rena @ June 25 2011,16:30)

Mike, good points, I agree with you.

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 26 2011,17:58)

Quote (terraricca @ June 25 2011,16:56) I was watching a show called NOVA about the universe;I was amazed of the greatness of God s creation ,compere that to men yes we are less than a grain of sand, we have now pictures of some 8 light years away from us the earth ,this is very far,and still not even close to God ,I told in my heart ;yes this is my God,who did all those things. NOVA is a top rate program.  It is informational television at its finest! My heart also says “Yes, it was my God who did all these things”.  And such WONDERFUL things at that. Imagine buying some guinea pigs and putting them in a cage and feeding them.  That's all they really need to live. But our God is more like the guy who soups up that cage and has waterfalls and flowers and other plants and other creatures to interact with etc, etc, etc. Jehovah didn't have to make our dwelling place so wrought with beauty and wonder and mystery in order for us to survive.  But He did it anyway, in order for us to truly live!   And I publically praise Him for being such a wonderfully caring parent.

Mike

I join you in this prayer may our God listen to the cry of our hearts for him

Pierre

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