Do spirits have bodies?

[mikeboll64]

Hi Kerwin,

This discussion started because you sided with Gene that angels aren't “spirits” like the scripture says.  But I'm here to tell you that God is a Spirit AND a Being, therefore a Spirit Being.  Same with angels and demons.

God's Holy Spirit is not a being, but a part of the Being of God.

My spirit is not a being, but a part OF the being of Mike.

So yes, I understand that meaning of spirit as well as the “spirit being” meaning.  When angels and demons are called “spirits”, it is the “spirit being” meaning, as is clearly shown by the scripture you will be reexamining.

It was the demons who asked to be sent into the pigs, and it the evil spirits that were sent into the pigs. Ipso facto, the demons ARE the evil spirits.

peace,
mike

[Rena]

Quote (Istari @ June 22 2011,20:31)

– and tries to separate Rena and Istari…

Istari,

You know how much you mean to me. No matter what they try or say or do will never ever come in between you and me.

You are the best thing I ever had on this forum. I'm lucky. You are Godsent. I love you.

[Istari]

Rena,
Thank you for that heartfelt and godly loving remark – but perhaps a little too direct for the forum.

Is there. Private Room somewhere in this forum?

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 23 2011,15:32)

Hi Kerwin, This discussion started because you sided with Gene that angels aren't “spirits” like the scripture says.  But I'm here to tell you that God is a Spirit AND a Being, therefore a Spirit Being.  Same with angels and demons. God's Holy Spirit is not a being, but a part of the Being of God. My spirit is not a being, but a part OF the being of Mike. So yes, I understand that meaning of spirit as well as the “spirit being” meaning.  When angels and demons are called “spirits”, it is the “spirit being” meaning, as is clearly shown by the scripture you will be reexamining. It was the demons who asked to be sent into the pigs, and it the evil spirits that were sent into the pigs.  Ipso facto, the demons ARE the evil spirits. peace, mike

Mike………..Your problem still is you have no Idea what a Spirit Is. God is not a “BEING” God the Father is the Being or the LORD GOD is the being. God is a title not a person as you assume. ” here O Isreal the LORD OUR “GOD” is “ONE LORD”. Get it mike. It is like running Jesus and the word Christos and one as the same thing . Jesus is Not the Christos, the Christos is what was (IN) Jesus guiding his thoughts and and was speaking to us through Him.

peace and love…………………………..gene

[Istari]

Small point of order:

It iscertainly true that 'God' is a title.

And ALL references to 'God' MUST take account of this else there is danger ofrunning into the problem created as shown in the debates between WJ and Mikeboll.

If the discussion/debate touches on the capacity of one entity to be SUPREME OVER ANOTHER or OTHERS then that Supreme one IS entitled (!) to be TITLED 'God'.

But, that one MUST also be NAMED EXPLICITLY so as to reduce the posdibity of confusion over the ONE WHO IS 'SUPREME OVER ALL OTHER SUPREMES… that one is YHVH GOD…

In the debates between WJ and Mike, many strained arguments could easily have been cleared up if the combatants clarified their meaning of 'God'. Curiously, they BOTH argue counter one oneanother using the SANE arguments…: Jesus IS GOD becaue he is Supreme!!!

However, WJ makes Jesus to be AS supreme as the One who MADE HIM supreme – which is a nonsense. And Mike makes All GODS as Supreme as EVERY OTHER GOD – which again, is sheer nonsense!!

One cannot BECOME 'The Most High God' (YHVH) – there can be only ONE.
but one can become SUPREME in many things without breaking the rule.

A Lion is the SUPREME Beast in the open 'WilderLands' (Strangely, a TIGER is more suited to the Jungle which is where the saying usually puts the Lion!)

So, is the LION then God himself?

The Father, in Hebrew culture, is SUPREME in the household – he is GOD, of the Household.
The JUDGE is SUPREME in his courthouse – he is the Ruler.

Are either of these GOD ALMIGHTY – no.

WJ never answers concerning who 'God Almighty is' because it breaks his arguments wide open – and his strained arguments claiming that Jesus is called 'YHVH' are so far fetched as to warrant immediate distancing by any credible righteous ones.

YHVH is Hebrew translated as 'I AM' in English. The full saying by God Almighty himself is 'I AM whom I AM' which variously means: 'I have ALWAYS BEEN, I ALWAYS AM, ad I ALWAYS WILL BE'.
Clearly, this CANNOT apply to Jesus, as Jesus 'WAS, then WAS NOT, then IS EVER AFTER'.

And those who follow after Jesus Christ – Also 'Will be ever after' – So, if Jesus IS GOD, if he BECAME GOD (Almighty) – then SO TOO WILL THE OTHER 144,000!!

Anyway, all this is off topic (Allowance due and fulfillled).

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 22 2011,13:08)

Quote (Ed J @ June 21 2011,13:06) Quote (terraricca @ June 22 2011,05:50) edj Quote Hi Mike, It looked to me like Pierre's last post to me seemed to stall; but I welcome more questions. you missed, page 316 if number 2 is right then #3 must be also right 4)my point is when you are created you are ,there right ,and now because you are there you have your own personal structure (in men case Flesh,in spirit beings spirit form or body whatever ) 5)I am not talking about the same element but different creation,like bugs,birds,fish,men,the sun,planets,angels,grass,trees,light,fire,black holes,gases,water,plankton,microbes,viruses,bacteria,flees,insects,ect………list to long those have different structures between them but are very similar between themselves(all corvettes are made in Fiberglas right,and the rest is steel;right but in shape they are partly different or if they would be totally different they would be no longer be corvettes right) 6) so variation in one kind is not a change in structure right ? understand? Pierre Hi Pierre, Nothing new here, that's what you said before. I did understand what you said the first time. What are “YOU” trying to convince “me” of? God bless   Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org     Ed, he clarified all the diversions, sorry, “questions” you made to his original points!  Why won't you address his clarifications?

Hi Mike,

Perhaps you can reiterate the questions of concern,
in simple enough words that I can perceive as questions; OK?

God bless  
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Hi Ed,

I'll let Pierre take care of Pierre.  But I'm still waiting for a response to this post:

Hi Ed,

It is Istari's claim that angels are “everywhere all the time” – not mine.  I have been arguing AGAINST that claim for over 300 pages now.

But if YOU don't think they are “everywhere all the time”, then what is it that distinguishes them as being HERE at the same time they are not THERE?  Without a body, or outer perimeter of some kind, they couldn't help but to be “everywhere all the time”.

[terraricca]

Mike

edj does not want to finish the discusion ,because he can see where it is going ,I think

Pierre

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 24 2011,13:43)

Hi Ed, I'll let Pierre take care of Pierre.  But I'm still waiting for a response to this post: Hi Ed, It is Istari's claim that angels are “everywhere all the time” – not mine.  I have been arguing AGAINST that claim for over 300 pages now. But if YOU don't think they are “everywhere all the time”, then what is it that distinguishes them as being HERE at the same time they are not THERE?  Without a body, or outer perimeter of some kind, they couldn't help but to be “everywhere all the time”.

Hi Mike,

Great!

The thing that would distinguish them from being everywhere at the same time is: they are not YHVH.

God bless  
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ June 24 2011,14:16)

Mike edj does not want to finish the discusion ,because he can see where it is going ,I think Pierre

Hi Pierre,

It is because I failed to see any questions you were wondering the answers to.

God bless  
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ June 23 2011,21:21)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 24 2011,13:43) Hi Ed, I'll let Pierre take care of Pierre.  But I'm still waiting for a response to this post: Hi Ed, It is Istari's claim that angels are “everywhere all the time” – not mine.  I have been arguing AGAINST that claim for over 300 pages now. But if YOU don't think they are “everywhere all the time”, then what is it that distinguishes them as being HERE at the same time they are not THERE?  Without a body, or outer perimeter of some kind, they couldn't help but to be “everywhere all the time”. Hi Mike, Great! The thing that would distinguish them from being everywhere at the same time is: they are not YHVH. God bless   Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

 Ed, I don't think “they are not YHVH” is a “thing” per se, do you?  

But okay, how can YHWH be everywhere all the time when angels are said to come into His presence and leave from it?  If HE was “everywhere all the time”, everything in creation would ALWAYS be in His presence.

Job 1
6 One day the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”

The angels wouldn't have had to COME to present themselves before God, for He would have already BEEN anywhere they came FROM.  Nor would God have asked Satan where he came FROM, for God would have been there too.

So Ed, make a serious attempt to answer my question, or just forget about it and I'll assume you cannot answer it. At least not without agreeing that there must be something that limits where any particular angel IS and where he IS NOT at any given time.

peace,
mike

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ June 24 2011,21:23)

Quote (terraricca @ June 24 2011,14:16) Mike edj does not want to finish the discusion ,because he can see where it is going ,I think Pierre Hi Pierre, It is because I failed to see any questions you were wondering the answers to. God bless   Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj that funny

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 23 2011,10:32)

Hi Kerwin, This discussion started because you sided with Gene that angels aren't “spirits” like the scripture says.  But I'm here to tell you that God is a Spirit AND a Being, therefore a Spirit Being.  Same with angels and demons. God's Holy Spirit is not a being, but a part of the Being of God. My spirit is not a being, but a part OF the being of Mike. So yes, I understand that meaning of spirit as well as the “spirit being” meaning.  When angels and demons are called “spirits”, it is the “spirit being” meaning, as is clearly shown by the scripture you will be reexamining. It was the demons who asked to be sent into the pigs, and it the evil spirits that were sent into the pigs.  Ipso facto, the demons ARE the evil spirits. peace, mike

Mike,

It is obvious that angels are not spirits at they can both be touched and eat.

Jesus was the one who proposed that test to prove he was not a spirit.

Of course some may believe Jesus was being deceptive and thus proposing a false test.

Since proved he was not a spirit and angels have also exhibited the same evidence then it follows they also are not spirits.

Some say Jesus proposed a test to prove he was not a spirit and then turned around and transformed into a spiriit rendering the test useless.  I do not see him doing such a thing.

I actually just pointed out that angels being callled ministering spirit did not make them beings composed of spirit as a human being can also be called a ministering spirit if her disposition is to minister.

From there we got into and interesting investigation about demons and evil spirits and I pointed out that according to a certain scriptural idea the evil spirit may not actually be the demon itself but rather the media through which a demon dwells within a person.

For example is a deaf and dumb spirit a demon whom lacks both hearing and speech or is it a spirit that causess the one it acts on to be deaf and dumb just like a running spirit leads the one it acts on to run?

The bottom line is do you understand what God living in a human being through the Holy Spirit means.  Do understand that if the Holy Spirit departs then so does God?

If so then you should understand that in the same way a devil can dwell in a human being through an unholy spirit.

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 24 2011,14:55)

Quote (Ed J @ June 23 2011,21:21) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 24 2011,13:43) Hi Ed, I'll let Pierre take care of Pierre.  But I'm still waiting for a response to this post: Hi Ed, It is Istari's claim that angels are “everywhere all the time” – not mine.  I have been arguing AGAINST that claim for over 300 pages now. But if YOU don't think they are “everywhere all the time”, then what is it that distinguishes them as being HERE at the same time they are not THERE?  Without a body, or outer perimeter of some kind, they couldn't help but to be “everywhere all the time”. Hi Mike, Great! The thing that would distinguish them from being everywhere at the same time is: they are not YHVH. God bless   Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org  Ed, I don't think “they are not YHVH” is a “thing” per se, do you?   But okay, how can YHWH be everywhere all the time when angels are said to come into His presence and leave from it?  If HE was “everywhere all the time”, everything in creation would ALWAYS be in His presence. Job 1 6 One day the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” The angels wouldn't have had to COME to present themselves before God, for He would have already BEEN anywhere they came FROM.  Nor would God have asked Satan where he came FROM, for God would have been there too. So Ed, make a serious attempt to answer my question, or just forget about it and I'll assume you cannot answer it.  At least not without agreeing that there must be something that limits where any particular angel IS and where he IS NOT at any given time. peace, mike

Hi Mike,

Of course there are limits to where the angels are and are not.

You do not believe that YHVH is everywhere?

God bless  
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Istari]

Mike, have you not heard the sayings:
'Pull yourself together'
and
'Gather your thoughts'

What do you think they pertain to: Body or Spirit?

Also, Why would there be a SPIRIT if a [living]Body is a Body WITH a Spirit in it?
And why would there be a SPIRIT with a Body if there is already a thing called a Body that can be WITHOUT A SPIRIT?

In other words:
You say that a Spirit HAS a body…
But a Body is an entity made of Material Matter.
Or a grouping of THINGS which together act in one accord?
Which one of these descriptions fits 'S

[Istari]

Mike, have you not heard the sayings:
  'Pull yourself together'
and
  'Gather your thoughts'

What do you think they pertain to: Body or Spirit?

Also, Why would there be a SPIRIT if a [living]Body is a Body WITH a Spirit in it?
And why would there be a SPIRIT with a Body if there is already a thing called a Body that can be WITHOUT A SPIRIT?

In other words:
You say that a Spirit HAS a body…
But a Body is an entity made of Material Matter.
Or a grouping of THINGS which together act in one accord?
Which one of these descriptions fits 'Spirit' – An Angel – God – The Holy Spirit?

Mike, define 'BODY' for me.
And define 'Spirit' for me.

[Istari]

Why is the SPIRIT not described as a 'Body'?

Mike, have you heard of the word: 'Oxy-Moron'!

Mike, you say that Gene is completely out of line when he says that a Spirit is IN A BODY.
Yet you say that a Spirit is IN A BODY…

'Pot' and 'Kettle' and 'Black' springs to mind for some reason here!!

[Istari]

EDJ,
Mike has locked his mind into a certain BODY of thought instead of allowing himself to be a free Spirit.

He makes a great mountain out of the simple concept that I pointed out to him. He picked ONE PART of what I said and then asks stupid questions against it, like saying 'Butterfly' and mike says 'Istari says Butter can fly'!

What I said to Mike was that in the higher dimensions a BODY cannot exist – even human knowledge of Science and Physics and Mathematics PROVES THIS!
In Maths they use the term 'Virtual' and 'Imaginary' Numbers to describe things in the fifth and higher dimensions…
One cannot physically create a model of a fifth dimensional design. Have you seen the 'Endless Staircase' design, the Three pronged inside out figure… Other stuff… IMPOSSIBLE in the fourth and lower dimensions.

I told Mike that there is No Body that constrains the Spirit – that the Spirit in the higher dimensions are not ANYWHERE – ANY ONE PLACE – because in the fifth and higher dimensions they are EVERYWHERE – there is no Place they are NOT.

However, In the fourth dimension, because it is a physical domain, they have to be in ONE PLACE at any one time – hence they 'put on a body' to constrain them in that one Place (Also, those bodies look like human bodies for logically interactive reasons)
An angel can therefore instantly come 'down' at ANY PLACE, then instantly go 'up' again – as illustrated many times in Scriptures. They materialise bodies of nondescript flesh, and pure White apparel which shimmer with their power.

They dematerialise the body (Which is not a FULL FLESH AND BLOOD BODY But just a manifestation)
Their 'Bodies' in the physical workd are only temporary and nondescript.

Jesus, is the FIRST to have a PERMANENT BODY… as GLORIOUS as that materialised by the Angels – and Featured as Humanity and as Flesh and bone as Mankind… Incorruptible, everlasting, featurefilled.

Mike's question of 'how can they be or not be in one place or not in one place' is mute because he is confusing Human concepts with Spiritual concepts.

Spirit is 'Thought', 'Intellect', Power, energy… These are all everywhere – they have no constraint But – they can be RESTRICTED. Angels are RESTRICTED in BOTH KNOWLEDGE AND POWER.

To be in GOD's PRESENCE is to be IN WITH HIS KNOWLEDGE.

God calls the Angels into his knowledge and EMPOWERS THEM: 'Are you WITH ME, are you in my presence of knowledge?'
The Demon Angels are devoid of the knowledge of God's wisdom through the Holy Spirit and therefore are 'Locked away'. Their only knowledge is that which they had concerning the wisdom and plan of God before their fall. Like an INSIDER to a great king locked in a dungeon with no further knowledge of any modifications or current affairs… They can pursuade others from their outdated but worthy knowledge of what was – and because God's plans are TRUE the demons can rely on nearly all of what they knew!

So, EDJ, don't feel intimidated by MIGHTY MIKE, he is just a smallfry!

EDJ, what's the betting Mike still says he has not been answered…!!

[Ed J]

Hi Istari,

If the answer one gives is not the type of answer Mike can leverage
into proving you are wrong, then you have not answered his question.
Fell free to quote me on this; I've seen this pattern time and time again.

God bless  
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ June 25 2011,13:33)

Hi Istari, If the answer one gives is not the type of answer Mike can leverage into proving you are wrong, then you have not answered his question. Fell free to quote me on this; I've seen this pattern time and time again. God bless   Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

you have scriptural never proved he was wrong ,or did you ?

then I must have mist it could you recall where that was and show it to me ?

Pierre

[Author]

Posts