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Istari, I'm not confused I'm just distracted. Distracted from watching. `Watch therefore, for you don't know the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming'.
Distracted just like you have been – by these endless discussions on 'begotten, 'procreation and now spirit bodies. And then there was 'when does a man become a Father?
Come on, WAKE UP Istari.How come you dont post or read in the prophecy section? You should.
Rena,
Simple – I am not interested in prophecy so as to wish to discuss it.Prophecy is fraught with misinterpretation which always ends with Trying to predict the end of time – to catch the 'thief'. It cannot be done…
We can tell when the rain is coming – but we can't tell WHEN it will rain.
Forever watching the sky means we stumble in our walk.
The 'Prince of Persia' is here in the guise of Mikeboll.
And Mikeboll asks how a human can resist an Angel… Well, he himself answers his own question.
Rena, see the Spiritual side of what is going on in this thread then you will see where truth and lies lay.
Mike is using separate and individual points of argument – but none joined up… So to him each seapate piece fits… But he does not fit the pieces altogether because he KNOWS that they would NOT MAKE SENSE.
Mike has 'climbed down' massively since starting this thread.
He has adopted themes and ideas he COLLECTS during his arguments and strings them into a new theory in a subtle manner while refuting everything he reads only to later use it as if it were always part of his idea.His latest 'idea' is that Jesus' body was TRANSFORMED just before he entered Heaven – but he has no Scriptural backing for this so he using a WJ/KJ trick of making a counter demand : 'Prove it is NOT SO'…
However, since Mike is a man who DEMANDS that others answer him, should HE not go by his own method and answer a simple BOLDED question put to him? (Isn't there a thread on what should happen to those who weasel out of answering questions – see, even as I use a word mike throws it back: Copycat! The man is irrepressible and irresponsible)Mike cannot reconcile how Jesus is in a BODY on earth and yet a Spirit in Heaven.
Yet, this is what I have expounded through the reality of Dimensions.
How is it I said that 'No flesh and blood, no physical matter, no BODY' can enter Heaven.
Who said this: Jesus Christ.
Yet Mikeboll says 'Yes, Jesus has a body in Heaven', that Jesus has a Spiritual body in Heaven.Yet Scriptures NEVER SAYS ANY SUCH THING…
Scriptures says 'It is RAISED a SPIRITUAL BODY' and Jesus was RAISED into a SPIRITUAL BODY… the body he showed to his Disciples and over 400 others who believed – but not Mikeboll…
See, Mikeboll has crept one step away from truth … Where did he start from – where is he now?
Where did I start – where am I now?
My position has not changed but Mike has made many changes to reach where he is now…Rena, WHAT IF SOMEONE HAD NOT OPPOSED this joker (Umm… I mean, this one who is in continual error – may God rebuke him!)
Mike's main error is that he tries to oppose me – that he ignores the truth of anything i post simply for trying to refute what I say… See that he ONLY quotes parts of my post even when that part has been expounded on over and over – then he says I never answered him…
Your not very good at scripural comebacks by the way, sometimes.
You could have just said –Ephesians 4:11-
“He gave some to be apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, shepherds and teachers”
1st Tim 2:12
“I don't permit a woman to teach”
And as for the topic,
John 3:6.
`That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Quote (Istari @ June 19 2011,03:19) Mike, you are saying (Are you saying) that “Flesh and Bone” is not a BODY?
Are you saying Jesus DID NOT SAY (Mean) “See, I am not a Spirit, for a Spirit does not have a BODY like you see I have“?
Mike, are you sane?
It's funny that I asked a simple question about cars, then Pierre even emphasized that question by bumping it for you……………and you STILL avoided it.
Listen up, Sunshine: If you would start addressing, one by one, the points we are making to you, you would then learn truth as opposed to spouting nonsense.
Here, lets try it with your quote from above. You said, “for a Spirit does not have a BODY like you see I have”? That's right Istari. Jesus was saying that the BODY of a spirit is NOT comprised of flesh and bone, as you see I now have. Therefore since MY body IS made of flesh and bone, and the bodies of spirits are NOT made of flesh and bone, I'm not a spirit.
Now consider this: Why didn't Jesus say, “Duh! Spirits don't even HAVE bodies, so the fact you're actually seeing me IN a body should tell you that I'm not a spirit!”?
But he didn't say that, did he? He didn't imply that he wasn't a spirit because he HAD a BODY at the time, but because that body was MADE of flesh and bone.
Also notice that he didn't say, “Spirits don't USUALLY have flesh and bone. They ONLY have flesh and bone when they create or manifest an earth body.”
See, he didn't say that because it would not have proven he was not a spirit. There was apparently not an Istari in the crowd saying, “Uh, spirits can CREATE flesh bodies when they come to earth, Jesus. That's how the spirits mated with human women to produce the Nephilim, Jesus. In fact, some spirits just keep their “earth body” hanging in an “earth closet”, ready for them to put on when they visit earth. So just because you have flesh and bone doesn't really tell us you're NOT a spirit, because spirits can CREATE flesh and bone bodies!”
But that didn't happen, did it, Istari? Because YOU were not there to tell Jesus what's what about dimensions and time travel and the space/time continuum, etc.
So what have we learned?
1. The fact Jesus HAD a body was NOT the distinguishing factor that proved he was not a spirit. The distinguishing factor was that his body was made of flesh and bone.
2. If spirits can just “create” flesh and bone bodies at will, then Jesus' whole point that he wasn't a spirit BECAUSE he had flesh and bone would have gone right out the window.
There. I've explained two of your many misunderstandings to you in one little post. Not bad for a Sunday morning, huh?
Now, if you would be so kind as to actually ADDRESS both of these points above, one by one, the learning process will begin for you.
Also, my previous question still stands to you:
Istari, if Jesus had said he was not a CAR because CARS don't have flesh and bone, would you assume:
a. Cars don't have bodies at all?
b. The bodies of cars are not comprised of flesh and bone?Mike…………..Jesus was not talking about (another) body he was talking about (HIS) Body. And he said it clearly “A SPIRIT DOES NOT HAVE FLESH AND BONE” (That is A BODY< "AS YOU SEE (I) HAVE". What part of that you don't understand , it is so clear, why do you continue to twist up scripture to meet your dogmas? Fact is you have not idea what Sptrit (IS) IMO
peace and love…………………………………………..gene
Come on Gene. Follow it through……….I know you can do it if you apply yourself.
The disciples saw Jesus IN A BODY, right? Yet they STILL thought he was a spirit, right? And Jesus didn't tell them, “Look morons, spirits don't even HAVE bodies, so how in the world could I be a SPIRIT!”, did he?
Instead, he told them, NOT THAT SPIRITS DON'T HAVE BODIES AT ALL, but that spirits don't have FLESH AND BONE.
Also, if spirits can just “create” or “manifest” flesh and bone bodies at will, then Jesus saying he had flesh and bone wouldn't have done anything to convince them that he WASN'T a spirit, because they still could have thought he WAS a spirit who just “manifested” a flesh and bone body.
Think, man, think!
Gene,
Mike spent AGES thinking that one up… Any sane person would not think what Mike is saying – in fact not one single other person ever did (oops – pedantic Mike will say, 'Not one Single' could mean 'but MANY'… careful how you write to him – he is a programmed Greek robot!!)
Besides Gene,
You DO believe that angels have bodies, right? But like with many other scriptures, you have to alter God's written word to fit what YOU believe, instead of fitting what YOU believe around the scriptures as they are written.
So when Paul says angels ARE ministering spirits, YOU have to insert your own words to make Paul say, “Angels HAVE spirits inside of them”.
When will you stop?
Scripture says: Jesus is the Root and the Branch of David.
Gene says: Jesus is FROM the Root, and also the Branch of David.Scripture says: The Word BECAME flesh.
Gene says: The Word came to be IN someone who was flesh.Scripture says: Angels ARE spirits.
Gene says: Angels have spirits inside of them.It's no wonder your understanding of scripture is so messed up, Gene. How could it not be when you are adding to or changing any scripture that doesn't fit your own beliefs?
Quote (Istari @ June 19 2011,09:33) Gene, Mike spent AGES thinking that one up… Any sane person would not think what Mike is saying – in fact not one single other person ever did (oops – pedantic Mike will say, 'Not one Single' could mean 'but MANY'… careful how you write to him – he is a programmed Greek robot!!)
Are you stumped, Istari?
Answer the points, jester.
Quote (Rena @ June 20 2011,02:32) Terrarica, don't be distracted with all this. Debating 'spirit bodies or 'procreation or 'begotten or 'trinity all just leads to confusion and distraction.
What is to be gained from it? Nothing.
Take trinity for example.
If I showed my son who is six two Apples – asked him how many Apples there are – and he correctly said two – and then I got angry and told him he was wrong – theres one apple – though there are two – I think he would get confused.
When we read the scriptures we knew. Because you have to accept it as a child.
I can't be bothered with this thread anymore. There's some things we just don't know. You have to accept it as a child IMO.
Renaagreed ,but we can understand and be true of what we know and do not know ,in this way we would be in line with the truth of God ,right ?
Pierre
Mike Boll,
Quote So when Paul says angels ARE ministering spirits, YOU have to insert your own words to make Paul say, “Angels HAVE spirits inside of them”. That is not a proof scripture since human beings can be ministering spirits.
Here is an example of such a use the word “spirit” from a news article.
Quote “She was a quiet girl, but she was beautiful, friendly … and just a kind, kind spirit,” Here is my source.
Quote (Istari @ June 19 2011,01:24) Mike,
Show me the Scripture verse where you say that Jesus' body was TRANSFORMED just before (or as£ he ascended into Heaven.
Istari,There is no such scripture about either Jesus or angels but it explain the tenet that only spirit exists in heaven while Jesus was clearly flesh and bone when he was resurrected.
That was a well worded and respectful post though I find the words please and thank you to increase the diplomacy.
Quote (kerwin @ June 19 2011,10:18) Mike Boll, Quote So when Paul says angels ARE ministering spirits, YOU have to insert your own words to make Paul say, “Angels HAVE spirits inside of them”. That is not a proof scripture since human beings can be ministering spirits.
Here is an example of such a use the word “spirit” from a news article.
Quote “She was a quiet girl, but she was beautiful, friendly … and just a kind, kind spirit,” Here is my source.
Hi Kerwin,So what does it mean when the disciples thought Jesus was a SPIRIT?
Quote (terraricca @ June 18 2011,11:48) Kerwin Quote Then you must believe the spirit side of man has a spirit body I just came to understand what you are trying to say;so man as been created with a soul(spirit;will
) that God provides and return to him,and there is nothing left of the dead man according to the flesh because he as been now
disintegrated into food and dirtso what was in the flesh is released when dead comes,dead is the trigger to release the soul and to return to God who had given it.
the soul has a form or body but it is not materiel,just like molecules,neutron,protons,and others this I do not know.
if God can call it back and destroy it. it means it has some type of substance that can be mean something and can be destroyed.
Quote If the body of the Spirit side of man is the flesh side of man then according to you it follows the Spirit side of man no longer exists when the flesh side perishes I did not say that the soul (spirit ) is the flesh we all know that's not so ,but the soul as a flesh body while on earth until that flesh parrish,and next you letting your mind fabricate the rest of your imagination
concluding that last section in your quote,Pierre
You are correct about what my point is.I was petty sure you did not mean the spirit side of man would stop existing when the flesh side died I just was hoping that you would discover that the spirit side of man has a body of spirit while a human has a body of flesh and bone animated by there spirit side.
Quote (kerwin @ June 20 2011,10:18) Mike Boll, Quote So when Paul says angels ARE ministering spirits, YOU have to insert your own words to make Paul say, “Angels HAVE spirits inside of them”. That is not a proof scripture since human beings can be ministering spirits.
Here is an example of such a use the word “spirit” from a news article.
Quote “She was a quiet girl, but she was beautiful, friendly … and just a kind, kind spirit,” Here is my source.
Kerwinto be able to ministering the truth (will) of God you have to be a being because ministering needs actions,
you example you give is not a being but a quality of a being,
not the same thingPierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 19 2011,22:34) Quote (kerwin @ June 19 2011,10:18) Mike Boll, Quote So when Paul says angels ARE ministering spirits, YOU have to insert your own words to make Paul say, “Angels HAVE spirits inside of them”. That is not a proof scripture since human beings can be ministering spirits.
Here is an example of such a use the word “spirit” from a news article.
Quote “She was a quiet girl, but she was beautiful, friendly … and just a kind, kind spirit,” Here is my source.
Hi Kerwin,So what does it mean when the disciples thought Jesus was a SPIRIT?
They thought he was an “'owb” in Hebrew also called a ”phantasma' in Greek. Both are generically called “spirit” as they are the spirit side of a human.Hi Kerwin,
Luke was written in Greek, not Hebrew. And the word Luke and Jesus both used was “pneuma”, which means “spirit”. (Luke 24:37, 39)
Quote (terraricca @ June 19 2011,22:38) Quote (kerwin @ June 20 2011,10:18) Mike Boll, Quote So when Paul says angels ARE ministering spirits, YOU have to insert your own words to make Paul say, “Angels HAVE spirits inside of them”. That is not a proof scripture since human beings can be ministering spirits.
Here is an example of such a use the word “spirit” from a news article.
Quote “She was a quiet girl, but she was beautiful, friendly … and just a kind, kind spirit,” Here is my source.
Kerwinto be able to ministering the truth (will) of God you have to be a being because ministering needs actions,
you example you give is not a being but a quality of a being,
not the same thingPierre
Pierre,“she” is a pronoun representing a noun. You can substitute the pronoun “they” for angels.
Thus they are ministering spirits. As I believe you pointed out that would be speaking of a quality of their character or disposition and not a quality of their body.
So a ministering spirit is a one disposed to minister.
Are angels disposed to minister?
Here is an example of a verb being used as an adjective to describe the disposition of a human being.
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