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JA………..You have it right, a Living Soul = a Body + Spirit (in) it, nothing more nothing less. Spirit is not a body it is what is (IN) a body. A human being consists of a Body plus Spirit (intellect). God can destory a living Soul by separating the Spirit he gave from the body and the man no longer exists for ever unless God recreates a Body and add his spirit back into it again. This is called the resurrection of or from the dead (state), and Jesus was the first to attain it with eternal life, and he had a Body with Spirit (IN) it, and was again a living Soul on the earth. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………….gene
Quote (Istari @ June 18 2011,03:19) Has anyone noticed that the Mikeboll's and the Irene's are ONLY claiming that JESUS has a body as a SPIRIT? Not one single word concerning the ANGELS – who are SPIRITS – and GOD – who is a Spirit – nor the Holy Spirit – who is a Spirit??? Weird, or what!!!
Wow Pierre!First, he ignores your question over and over – and now he doesn't even include your name as a member of the “Three Kings” anymore!
Oh, if only I could be so lucky!
Btw Istari, what's “weird” is that although I've been arguing for 300 pages that angels and God DO have bodies, you seem to have overlooked it.
Do you not remember me pointing out that “as is the man from heaven, so also ARE those who ARE of heaven”? Don't you remember me telling you that if God was “everywhere all the time”, then angels could not COME TO or LEAVE FROM His presence? Nor would Jesus say “our Father who is IN HEAVEN”. He would instead say, “our Father who is 'everywhere all the time' “. If God is IN HEAVEN, as opposed to say, IN HELL, then something is distinguishing where God IS from where God ISN'T.
What amazes me is your lack of shame. Not only do you make many assinine claims of your own, but you often make stupid claims that you attribute to me, when I've said nothing of the sort.
This stems from your never-ending refusal to quote my own words, then DIRECTLY answer the point I've put forth to you. I hate having discussions like this. If you would put a little effort into DIRECTLY addressing my issues instead of preacing from your soap box, then even if we ended up disagreeing, you would at least be able to ACCURATELY express what I've claimed.
The poll about Jesus' body is clearly speaking volumes. There will be another poll shortly.
mike
Gene,
Thanks for your input and a welcomed agreement.
A small point of order: No one is saying that a Spirit IS a Body – but that a Spirit HAS a Body.
Either way, they are wrong! And there is no Scriptural support.
Why would there be such a thing called a BODY (Flesh) and a thing called a SPIRIT if the Spirit has a body?
And then the SPIRIT is CONTAINED in a Flesh body… Of Man…
If the Spirit has a BODY, what is that BODY MADE OF?
Human bodies are made of the 'Dust of the earth' – Chemical Elements, Atoms, the SAME chemical elements that make up the Planets and the Suns and the Stars (Well, many of them, anyway!)Wasn't this stated by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15?
'There are different types of Flesh, the Glory of one is not the same glory as the other'
'There is the Natural Body, and there is the Spiritual body'
The natural body is that like animal, fish, bird, man… It decays.
The Spiritual body is like the Sun, moon and Stars… They do not decay but SHINE – give off glorious light… The Spiritual Body is RADIANT, Is VISIBLE, is 'Heavenly', Celestial…!So the HEAVENLY, CELESTIAL MAN, the Glorious Man with the Spiritual Body…
Then the SPIRIT is no different to FleshMike
Quote Wow Pierre! First, he ignores your question over and over – and now he doesn't even include your name as a member of the “Three Kings” anymore!
Oh, if only I could be so lucky!
they do not want to answer my question because if they do ,they know what is coming after so they chose what not to answer ,this is similar to the question of Jesus to the leaders of his time;
but you can see they are still not showing clear scriptures to show our misunderstanding just a reference and many comment who do not mean anything beside showing their own misunderstanding ,and it did not change since you start this tread and the same thing in the soul tread what i started,this is to mention only a few.
bless you brother
Pierre
Ah, poor Mike,
Is this ludicrous nonsense that you spout the best you can come up with to PROVE that Spirits have bodies?You sad person!
Do you really think that God is NOT everywhere?
Do you really think there is a place where SATAN is not?
Do you really think there is a place where God cannot 'see' you?
Do you think there is a place where you can hide from Sinful influences – from the challenging Will and Spirit if Demon Angels?Mike, you are becoming a disaster zone!
Scriptures clearly says, 'Where can I go to hide from you…' then names many places…
You are thrashing as usual for everyone knows that God is EVERYWHERE.
And in any case – what has that got to do with having a body?
What are you on about?
There is nothing for you to hang your theory on because Scriptures NEVER mentions ANYTHING about SPIRITS HAVING BODIES. But it does say that SPIRITS DO NOT HAVE BODIES – and Mike, guess who said it?
Yes, Mike, Jesus Christ – are you calling Jesus a Liar?
'See, I am not a Spirit, for a Spirit does not have flesh and bone (a body) as I have'.
And again, Jesus sat down and eat bread with two disciples whom he met on the road to Emmaus.
Then he 'Vanished from their sight' (Luke 24: 31).
The Spirit does not eat FOOD yet Jesus ate food.
The Body is material,yet Jesus 'Vanished' in front of them.Jesus 'Materialised' in the room with the Disciples.
Jesus 'Dematerialised' (Vanished) as he ascended to Heaven.
And he will 'Materialise' when he returns – in like manner to how he left.Luke 24 expounds the fact that Jesus was seen and handled in the flesh – proved that he was NOT A SPIRIT (vs 39). In Vs 40 he further PROVES himself… And then in vs 41-43 he EATS food in front of them – a thing that a Spirit does not do (For a Spirit has no need of Food).
Mike, I notice you never refer to the Scripture verses where Jesus PROVES HE IS A FLESH AND BLOOD MAN, but instead refer to a nonexistent verse saying that Jesus' body was 'Transformed' to the SPIRITUAL BODY just before he entered heaven.
MIKE, please can you show me where that is written – or how you came about to believe this… Thanks
Spirit does not have flesh and bone…
Jesus had flesh and bone…
Flesh and bone cannot enter Heaven…
Jesus is in Heaven…
Heaven is the realm of Spirits…
Jesus is a Spirit…
Jesus does not have flesh and bone in heaven…How does Jesus have a Flesh and Bone body on Earth – but is a Spirit in Heaven?
There is a simple answer…Mike!
Quote (Istari @ June 18 2011,12:32) Yes, Mike, Jesus Christ – are you calling Jesus a Liar? 'See, I am not a Spirit, for a Spirit does not have flesh and bone (a body) as I have'.
Hmmm…………..I don't recall seeing the word “body” in that scripture. Istari, I've been telling you for months that your belief that “body” EQUALS “flesh” is what is causing your confusion. Didn't Paul speak of heavenly “bodies” such as the moon and stars? Are these “bodies” made of “flesh”?ALL BODIES ARE NOT MADE OF FLESH, ISTARI.
Now all that's left to do is wait for Kar, who is now playing with an honest deck of cards, to scold YOU about your abusive language and insults in this post. (I won't hold my breath.
)mike
Quote (Istari @ June 18 2011,12:46) Spirit does not have flesh and bone…
Jesus had flesh and bone…
Flesh and bone cannot enter Heaven…
Jesus is in Heaven…
Heaven is the realm of Spirits…
Jesus is a Spirit…
Jesus does not have flesh and bone in heaven…How does Jesus have a Flesh and Bone body on Earth – but is a Spirit in Heaven?
There is a simple answer…Mike!
Yes there is. And I've been telling it to you for a long time now. Jesus' flesh body with which he was raised from the dead was transformed into a spiritual body upon his ascension to heaven.You say I have no scripture, but where is YOUR scripture that says “Jesus SHED his body upon his ascension to heaven”?
Both thoughts are our own conjecture to answer the very real points you've mentioned above. The main difference, (although there are many), is that I don't believe Paul was anxious about having his lowly body transformed into a new glorious body – just so he could hang it in a closet next to Jesus' glorious body.
He was anxious to live in heaven in his new glorious body that would be just like the new glorious body Jesus now has in heaven. Add to that the fact that there is NO scripture that speaks of anyone “shedding” their body, while there ARE scriptures that speak of bodies being TRANSFORMED and CHANGED.
It seems the poll is showing that more people here agree with me than with you. In fact, the last time I looked, it was 6 to 1. Let's give it more time and see if you end up being the ONLY “smart one” on Heaven Net.
mike
Mike,
Show me the Scripture verse where you say that Jesus' body was TRANSFORMED just before (or as£ he ascended into Heaven.It matters not whether 1 or 144 agree with me – or you.
The poll is about OPINION.
In fact it is pointless as there are more people voting than ever took part in the discussion – ever posted a Scriotural view.
Quote (Istari @ June 18 2011,13:24) Mike,
Show me the Scripture verse where you say that Jesus' body was TRANSFORMED just before (or as£ he ascended into Heaven.
Show ME the scripture that says anyone ever “SHED” a body.And then address the actual WORDS OF MY POST or don't bother addressing me at all! Answer to the FACT that scriptures DO speak of bodies being “transformed” or “different”, but NEVER about bodies being “shed”.
Quote (Istari @ June 18 2011,13:28) It matters not whether 1 or 144 agree with me – or you. The poll is about OPINION.
In fact it is pointless as there are more people voting than ever took part in the discussion – ever posted a Scriotural view.
It shows that as of yet, YOU stand alone on this forum with your imagination.Are we ALL idiots, Istari? Or could there be even a chance that you have been mistaken?
Oh Mike, how you LOVE to claim that others are abusing you – usually when you cannot refute what they say – it's your 'joie de vive' to think that you are being abused – you love being abused so you do things so others will get frustrated and abuse you – how sad you are – man of poor intellect – poor Spirit…man who cannot travel the rough road.
Quote (Istari @ June 19 2011,14:49) Oh Mike, how you LOVE to claim that others are abusing you – usually when you cannot refute what they say – it's your 'joie de vive' to think that you are being abused – you love being abused so you do things so others will get frustrated and abuse you – how sad you are – man of poor intellect – poor Spirit…man who cannot travel the rough road.
istariQuote – how sad you are – man of poor intellect – poor Spirit…man who cannot travel the rough road you must be scared to answer the question that I have ask you ?
it is because all your base of opinions even what you stand for will collapse,because there are no foundation for it .
Pierre
Quote (Istari @ June 18 2011,14:49) Oh Mike, how you LOVE to claim that others are abusing you – usually when you cannot refute what they say – it's your 'joie de vive' to think that you are being abused – you love being abused so you do things so others will get frustrated and abuse you – how sad you are – man of poor intellect – poor Spirit…man who cannot travel the rough road.
As I thought, no answers to the points in question – just more lame, lying trash talk by the unintelligent, thrashing, disaster zone Istari!Sorry sonny, but the poll has spoken, and guess what? YOU LOSE!
Bye bye now. Come talk to me when you're ready to learn by scripture instead of teaching by imagination.
Mike, show me the Scripture where you say that Jesus' body was TRANSFORMED just before he entered Heaven!
I'll be glad to Istari. Immediately AFTER you show me the scripture that says Jesus, or ANYONE ever “created a body” to appear on earth, or “shed a body” upon leaving it.
The ball's in YOUR court, jester.
Mike and Istari, this conversation has gone on so long. When will it end? Does it not say this is a mystery? As for the 'transformation' I think this is taken from these verses – the ones rapture believers quote…
1 Corinthians 15:52
Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed.1 Thessalinians 4:17
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with God's trumpet. The dead in Christ will rise first, then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air.And Mike, is it not the MAJORITY who are destined for Pergatory?
Is it not the Majority who travel the broad road that leads to destruction?So what does your poll tell you – nothing!!
Even if the majority was in my favour I would still say that the poll was pointless (Just in case you didnt understand what '1 or 144' means)You may well say 'Goodbye' – how many times have YOU SAID THAT BEFORE in this thread?
You realise that you have no where to go to so you are weaselling out.
You have realised that 'RAISED A SPIRITUAL BODY' is the valid Scripture so you will not discuss it.
You lose Mike. You have ALWAYS LOST – you know why? Because you are a LOSER.'Do Spirits have Bodies?'
Jesus Christ answers: 'A Spirit does not have flesh and bone AS I HAVE'
When you ask a question you DEMAND that everyone answers you: So, You, Mike, do as you ask of others: Answer this question:
'Show me the Scriptures that says that Jesus' Body was TRANSFORMED JUST BEFORE HE ENTERED HEAVEN'
Otherwise you have nothing of credit here – for on this declaration from your imagination hangs your whole theory!
But, of course, you are running away because you realise your GREAT ERROR… What BODY WAS JESUS RAISED IN: Scriptures says: 'Raised a SPIRITUAL BODY'.
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