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Quote (csaliba @ June 15 2011,08:24) First, it is very important to be aware of, that Jesus is the only person in all heavenly being that has a BODY,a SOUL, and a SPIRIT. three in one. Since no blood and no flesh can inherit God's kingdom,this kind of body has nothing to do in comparison to the flesh body which Jesus himself had before he died, so He possesses a unique spiritual body
Terrarica, this is what Csaliba said.Quote (Rena @ June 15 2011,17:47) Quote (csaliba @ June 15 2011,08:24) First, it is very important to be aware of, that Jesus is the only person in all heavenly being that has a BODY,a SOUL, and a SPIRIT. three in one. Since no blood and no flesh can inherit God's kingdom,this kind of body has nothing to do in comparison to the flesh body which Jesus himself had before he died, so He possesses a unique spiritual body
Terrarica, this is what Csaliba said.
renasorry my mistake
Pierre
Quote (Rena @ June 15 2011,09:13) John 14:16 – I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, that he may be with you forever, — the Spirit of truth, whom the world can't receive; for it doesn't see him, neither knows him. You know him, for he lives with you, and will be in you. John 14:18 – I will not leave you orphans. I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world will see me no more; but you will see me. Because I live, you will live also. In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.
Rena…………These are two very profound and important Scriptures to understand, the explain a lot. IMOI am going to paraphrase it here……….. Jesus said i will pray to the Father and he will give you another (Counselor), that (notice ) HE (the LOGOS) may be with you forever, the Sprit (intellect) of truth (a cognate ability) Whom the world cant recieve; for it doesn't see (HIM OR IT), , neither knows Him or it for He the LOGOS lives with you (God's Logos was (IN) Jesus, and therefore was (WITH) them, and will be (IN) You , Who? GOD the same GOD or Logos that was (IN) Jesus also , is in all who have his Spirit (IN) them. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 15 2011,20:09) Quote (Rena @ June 15 2011,09:13) John 14:16 – I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, that he may be with you forever, — the Spirit of truth, whom the world can't receive; for it doesn't see him, neither knows him. You know him, for he lives with you, and will be in you. John 14:18 – I will not leave you orphans. I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world will see me no more; but you will see me. Because I live, you will live also. In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.
Rena…………These are two very profound and important Scriptures to understand, the explain a lot. IMOI am going to paraphrase it here……….. Jesus said i will pray to the Father and he will give you another (Counselor), that (notice ) HE (the LOGOS) may be with you forever, the Sprit (intellect) of truth (a cognate ability) Whom the world cant recieve; for it doesn't see (HIM OR IT), , neither knows Him or it for He the LOGOS lives with you (God's Logos was (IN) Jesus, and therefore was (WITH) them, and will be (IN) You , Who? GOD the same GOD or Logos that was (IN) Jesus also , is in all who have his Spirit (IN) them. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Geneyou have it all wrong;
the Holy spirit is the true will of God understanding this is what Christ promise to his apostles and the fact that he says the world can not receive it ,is because they are from the evil not of God ,so no one who is not of God can not receive that holy spirit or true will of God understanding.
and understand that ones you have come to the truth of Gods you are never going to leave it because the truth of God remains forever ,God does not change, amen.
Pierre
Quote (Istari @ June 14 2011,08:38)
Mike knows the truth full well. His arguments swing through so many changes, from one side to another, through so many hoops… Even he doesn't know whether he is coming or going.
B
BUT what he IS DOING though, is to WEAVE the truth into his arguments very subtly and slowly… One day he will agree with what we have been saying – but then say THAT WAS WHAT HE WAS SAYING ALL ALONG.At that point we should WELCOME HIM into the fold of truth!!
If your heart was truly in that place, and I was really “subtly and slowly weaving my way to what YOU consider to be the truth”, then why have I heard nothing but childish insults from you? Shouldn't I have heard some “welcoming praise” from you by now? 
Quote (Istari @ June 14 2011,08:38)
See his latest twist: 'Those who have gone to heaven SINCE' where as he previously said they were already there BEFORE JESUS! That there were already men in heaven with bodies …
Has this guy, Mikeboll64, got any credit left !?
You make a crack about MY credit, when you aren't even focused enough to know what I've claimed, although I've claimed it over and over? That's rich, man!First of all, there are NO men in heaven. There never have been and there never will be. A “man” is made of flesh and blood, which cannot enter heaven.
Second, I was half-agreeing with Kar that not all sleep in death, but some have already been resurrected after Jesus. And yes, those also have bodies like Jesus' new glorious body…………………AND like “those of heaven”, as Paul clearly states in 1 Cor 15.
35 But someone may ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?”
What is the question that Paul is answering, Istari? Is he answering a question about the kind of BODY those raised will have?
38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.
What question is Paul STILL answering here, Istari? Do you REALLY think he is giving a lesson in botany? Or are you capable of understanding that Paul is STILL in the process of explaining what kind of BODY the dead will be raised in by using an analogy about seeds to show that God gives different bodies to all different kinds of beings?
40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.
Do you suppose that Paul has now changed the topic of the discussion, Istari? Or are you capable of understanding that this is STILL part of his explanation about what kind of BODIES the dead will be raised in?42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead……. 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
Yep, you guessed it! Paul is STILL explaining what kind of BODY the dead will be raised in.If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living soul”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
Let's see if you can make the connection here, Istari. (Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock……) Do you see it yet? Here, let me help you to see what should be obvious to someone of your self-claimed intelligence level: Paul is clearly referring to Jesus as “the last Adam”, right? What does he say Jesus became? (I bolded it for you.) Follow this thought all the way through, Istari. If there is a real bonafide natural body for human beings like Adam, then there is a real bonafide spiritual body for…………………wait for it……………..SPIRITS!Are you capable of connecting the dots here? I'm not saying there isn't also a metaphorical use of “spiritual body”, as in someone who decides to stop thinking and acting according to the flesh in favor of trying to make his whole entire being more in line with God, who is spirit. It is that metaphorical use that is meant when Paul speaks of “putting on the spiritual man”.
But you always seem to ignore NETNote's #2 definition of “spiritual”, 2) belonging to a spirit, or a being higher than man but inferior to God, as if that definition doesn't even exist. I'm here to tell you that it DOES exist. And in this scripture, Paul is STILL explaining what kind of BODY the dead will be raised in. And his reasoning is that since Jesus is now a SPIRIT, he now has a SPIRITUAL BODY, just like Adam who was a man, had a NATURAL BODY.
48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as are the heavenly, so also are those who are of heaven.
This part explains that not only the SPIRIT Jesus, but ALL those who ARE of heaven have these SPIRITUAL BODIES.49 And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.
Do you see the word I bolded and underlined, Istari? This is what NETNotes says about that word:eikon
1) an image, figure, likeness
1a2) the image of the Son of God, into which true Christians are transformed, is likeness not only to the heavenly body, but also to the most holy and blessed state of mind, which Christ possessesThis word “likeness” doesn't ONLY refer to the heavenly BODY that Christ possesses, but also to his blessed state of mind. So Paul is confirming what he says in Phil 3, by teaching that the elect who are raised to heaven will bear the BODILY likeness of the man from heaven.
Istari, I don't think I can explain it any better than this. I have explained the logical understanding that there cannot possibly exist two or more beings without some sort of body that separates one from the other(s). If there were two beings who were both “everywhere all the time”, (as you imagine), they would blend into and through each other forming only ONE being. There simply HAS TO BE something that separates one of them from the other.
I have showed you much scriptural proof that angels come and go from place to place. That also would not be possible if they were “everywhere all the time”. They could not GO TO somewhere if they were already there all the time, right?
I don't know what else to do, so I quit with you. I will discuss this issue with anyone else who is interested, but I've given up on you. You don't care what scriptures or log
ic I show you, because you just want to be “right”. And your posts don't ever answer my points, but are childish personal insults. And we all know that when someone can't logically or scripturally refute what the other says, they have no recourse but to either adjust their understanding to the scriptural one, or call the other person names as a crude and childish act of defiance.All of us here are well aware of the road you always choose to take whenever ANYBODY here has the audacity to disagree with “the Great Istari”.
So slam away, Istari. If it gets to be too much for me, I'll just pm Dennison and have him make a couple of equally crass comebacks to you, which will most likely send you immediately crying to the mods again – just like last time.
I wish for you to receive peace and understanding from God, and distance from me on this site – for we bring out the worst in each other,
mike
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 14 2011,20:08) Kerwin………You are right there is a Flesh body in the resurrection and it will contain spirit (in) it. And as a result be a living Soul again. The problem here is they do not understand what spirit IS. or they would knew there exists no such thing as a Spirit BODY> there is a “spiritual body” but not a Spirit Body. Jesus plainly said that “a spirit does not have a flesh and bone body as you see i have” and that was after his resurrection. No man has ever seen God because he is Spirit and can not be seen but only perceived by our minds and those who are spiritual can see him this way through the eye of their understanding. God the Father was truly dwelling (IN) Jesus , just as Jesus said he was ” the father (IN) me (HE) doth the works” , Kerwin they simply do not understand that because they can n t comprehend that God the Father (who is Spirit was truly indeed (IN) Jesus. The reason they can't understand that is because they do not know what spirit really is. IMO peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Gene,I am not sure what they believe. I am pointing out scriptural examples of resurrection and the talk of resurrectionan what seems to be clearly demonstrated in them.
It is possible they agree that the final resurection is of the flesh side of a human being with their spirit side returned to be housed in it anew.
I am waiting for them to reveal their beliefs on the matter.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 15 2011,12:28) Hi Charles, How is it that you know Jesus does have a body in heaven right now? Just curious.
mike
Mike ,You didn't read my post properly?
I stated so:
The kind of body Jesus has is one that could materialize and go back to a spiritual one as He feels, and when He feels like.
John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
It's very important that all those who are dedicated in reading scriptures,they should not just read it,but they should take very much longer reflecting and meditating, in order to discover if possible, all the debt of that particular word,sentence,paragraph, and chapter.
Also it is of extreme importance that whoever they are, they should also pray and pay the Holy Spirit to receive light,through general righteous
behaviour,especially Charity in Love to our neighbour in the name of Jesus Christ,and for His Love.Peace and Love in Our Lord Jesus christ
Charles
Quote ,especially Charity in Love to our neighbour in the name of Jesus Christ,and for His Love. could you show me one person in scriptures who received a miracle from Christ or his disciples who had no faith in God or did not know God ?
now could you show me who the apostles where helping like Stephen and some others ?
Pierre
Mikeboll64,
Why do you speak to me as if I lack spiritual wisdom and understanding.
Or even lack simple cognitive processing powers – or linguistic analysis?Why do you elucidate concerning 'Seed' as if I ever mention anything to imply some literal meaning to the analogical reasoning of Paul?
And why do YOU teach me about 'It is sown a natural body, it is raised a Spiritual body'?
Mike, in what body was Jesus raised?
What body did he show to the 10 disciples and to Mary Magdelene?
What body did he present to Thomas and ask Thomas to check: 'See, I am not a Spirit, for Spirit does not have flesh and bone as I have'What you imply is that Jesus was raised into a SPIRIT BODY.
This is different from a SPIRITUAL BODY – for there is no such thing as a SPIRIT BODY.
Show me where 'Spirit body' is written – whether in Scriptures or from ANY SOURCE (Aside from fairly land thinkers)
I warrant you will find NONE. Yet this is what you, Irene and Terraricca have created : an unsound and illogical term; for the very word 'Spirit' means 'Immaterial and invisible, Bodiless'No scholar in the history of this world has illuded to Spirits having bodies – neither does Scriptures!
This is your aborration brought about by your sinful desire to be not seen to lose a simple point 290 forum pages ago…Let me answer my first question to you:
Jesus was raised in a physical flesh and bone body of Sinless, undecaying and incorruptible Body: a SPIRITUAL BODY.What you suggest is that Jesus did not receive his SPIRIT BODY till he disappeared into the cloud:
'It is RAISED a Spiritual Body'
Are you saying that this 'disappearance' was the point Jesus was RAISED from the dead?Simple Angel Spirits come and go into the physical world.
Do they have bodies on Earth? Yes.
Do they have those bodies in Heaven? No.What purpose are hands, legs, arms, eyes, head, nose, belly,…Earthly human attributes, required in the Spirit realm?
God says 'Lift that' and it is lifted.
God says 'Go there' and it is gone there.
God 'hears' by thought…
God 'Sees' by INSIGHT.
And God is a Spirit…
And Spirit moves at the speed of thought (Think there and it IS there)
God is Holy and does not THINK anything that he does not wish to do – for the thoughts of God are as an act… Sinful Humans have a buffer so they can think, withhold, reflect, and then Do Or Not Do!
The SPIRITUAL MAN does not think Sinful thoughts but Holy thoughts.
The Spiritual Man does not LIE, nor have carnal desires of the flesh (or indeed of anything!)
The Spiritual Man is like the Angels but better – Sex is not a desire of the Spiritual man, Power is not a desire of the Spiritual man.
The Spiritual man seeks the ways of God only, to please the God of Heaven and sacrifice himself, dedicate himself in Worship of the God of Heaven, YHVH, the 'I Am'.This is the Man with a SPIRITUAL BODY…
No one EVER mentioned SPIRITS WITH BODIES (In heaven)
Why? – because there is no such thing…
Why would they mention something that does not exist and never would exist!'Flesh and Bone/Blood' CANNOT enter Heaven – Mike, it's simple physics – nothing Scriptural!!
Heaven is an immaterial invisible and bodiless zone – and a Body is all the opposite of Spirit…Spirit is FREE…
Body is RESTRAINED (That's why it is a Body – a cohesive collection of individual (Parts).
Water does not have a BODY but COLLECTED TOGETHER in a CONTAINER it (The collection) is called 'A BODY of Water'.
The Air does not have a body – but collected together in one place (over an area) empowered by pressure then it is called a moving BODY of air :Wind.
where does this BODY go to when the pressure is off…
Hence Jesus used this analogy to SPEAK OF THE SPIRIT: 'It is like the Wind; it blows where it will, and you neither know from where it comes, nor where it goes!'Mike, you are fighting Scriptures. You are fighting Jesus' own words.
Mike, you want to know how a human can resist and Angel? Look at yourself in this forum and this thread?
The Angel of truth desires to move on to another subject but it cannot LEAVE this one until it has fulfilled the purpose of making you understand, Mikeboll64.
You, Mikeboll64, are retaining this Angel Gabriel.
T8, Will you be Michael?
Is this spirit body and spiritual body thing still going on.
I am perplexed. What is the fascination?
Earth or earth. One is our planet, the other is dirt.
An easy mistake to make, but we should be intelligent enough to work out what the person is saying.Jesus knew men's hearts. We should be like him.
Mike, you said to Istari,
Quote I'll just pm Dennison and have him make a couple of equally crass comebacks to you, which will most likely send you immediately crying to the mods again – just like last time. What? Mike! Interesting that you would encourage this type of behaviour in a young one?
The bible say's,
Lev 19:32 – 'You shall rise up before the gray head, and honor the face of an old man, (sorry Jay) and you shall fear your God. I am Yahweh'.
And, encouraging bad behaviour in a younger one…
Matt 18:6 – “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for him that a huge millstone should be hung around his neck, and that he should be sunk in the depths of the sea.
Just saying.
You said…
Quote Were you planning to answer my bolded question from my last post to you? No – but I will.
Bolded question:
Quote Kar, does it make sense to you that the one who rules over heaven (and those who have been resurrected since him) are constrained by bodies while the angels they rule over are unconstrained and “everywhere all the time”? I agree with the following…
Kerwin said,
Quote I can only go so far as to state the flesh that is planted is not the flesh that arizes on the final resurection though it will apear like it. This change is the same change that happens to those yet living whom are “changed in the twinkling of an eye”. Gene said,
Quote No man has ever seen God because he is Spirit and can not be seen but only perceived by our minds and those who are spiritual can see him this way through the eye of their understanding. God the Father was truly dwelling (IN) Jesus , just as Jesus said he was ” the father (IN) me (HE) doth the works” Csaliba said,
Quote The kind of body Jesus has is one that could materialize and go back to a spiritual one as He feels, and when He feels like. And JA said,
Quote Simple Angel Spirits come and go into the physical world.
Do they have bodies on Earth? Yes.
Do they have those bodies in Heaven? No.What purpose are hands, legs, arms, eyes, head, nose, belly,…Earthly human attributes, required in the Spirit realm?
God says 'Lift that' and it is lifted.
God says 'Go there' and it is gone there.
God 'hears' by thought…
God 'Sees' by INSIGHT.
And God is a Spirit…
And Spirit moves at the speed of thought (Think there and it IS there)
God is Holy and does not THINK anything that he does not wish to do – for the thoughts of God are as an act… Sinful Humans have a buffer so they can think, withhold, reflect, and then Do Or Not Do!
The SPIRITUAL MAN does not think Sinful thoughts but Holy thoughts.
The Spiritual Man does not LIE, nor have carnal desires of the flesh (or indeed of anything!)
The Spiritual Man is like the Angels but better – Sex is not a desire of the Spiritual man, Power is not a desire of the Spiritual man.
The Spiritual man seeks the ways of God only, to please the God of Heaven and sacrifice himself, dedicate himself in Worship of the God of Heaven, YHVH, the 'I Am'.This is the Man with a SPIRITUAL BODY…
And Terrarica etc only asked questions – not leaving anyone out.
So I think that sums up my answer?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 15 2011,14:09) Quote (Rena @ June 15 2011,09:13) John 14:16 – I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, that he may be with you forever, — the Spirit of truth, whom the world can't receive; for it doesn't see him, neither knows him. You know him, for he lives with you, and will be in you. John 14:18 – I will not leave you orphans. I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world will see me no more; but you will see me. Because I live, you will live also. In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.
Rena…………These are two very profound and important Scriptures to understand, the explain a lot. IMOI am going to paraphrase it here……….. Jesus said i will pray to the Father and he will give you another (Counselor), that (notice ) HE (the LOGOS) may be with you forever, the Sprit (intellect) of truth (a cognate ability) Whom the world cant recieve; for it doesn't see (HIM OR IT), , neither knows Him or it for He the LOGOS lives with you (God's Logos was (IN) Jesus, and therefore was (WITH) them, and will be (IN) You , Who? GOD the same GOD or Logos that was (IN) Jesus also , is in all who have his Spirit (IN) them. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Interesting Gene!Rena……….”THAT GOD MAY BE ALL AND IN ALL”, and again, “THAT GOD AMY BE IN ALL AND THOUGH ALL” Simply put God lives in his creation by way of his LOGOS given by a CHRISTOS (anointing) to his called out servants, God is a Spirit and lives vicariously (IN) his Creation. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Quote (Rena @ June 15 2011,05:35) So I think that sums up my answer?
No, not at all. The question only requires a YES or a NO answer, Kar. Would you do me the honor of DIRECTLY answering a DIRECT question that was put to you? Or will you play games like Istari does?mike
Quote (csaliba @ June 14 2011,23:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 15 2011,12:28) Hi Charles, How is it that you know Jesus does have a body in heaven right now? Just curious.
mike
Mike ,You didn't read my post properly?
I stated so:
The kind of body Jesus has is one that could materialize and go back to a spiritual one as He feels, and when He feels like.
Hi Charles,I believe I read it just like you posted it. You speak of the body Jesus HAS, which leads me to think you believe Jesus HAS a body. Am I wrong?
Then you say he can materialize and go back to the spiritual ONE, (which I assume refers to the aforementioned BODY) as he feels.
Your words seem to say that Jesus, as a spirit, has a spiritual BODY. Please correct me if that's NOT what you're saying.
And if it is, then kindly answer the question I asked you: How do you KNOW?
peace,
mikeQuote (Rena @ June 15 2011,05:35) What? Mike! Interesting that you would encourage this type of behaviour in a young one?
What's interesting is how you continue to praise and defend (thereby ENCOURAGING) Istari's bad behavior, but you are the first to come crying on his behalf if anyone says one single offensive thing BACK to him.Try playing with an honest deck of cards, instead of the stacked one you've been using.
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