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Mike,
Question answered?The problem IS YOURS, my man.
Your question is also STUPID… why would anyone seeking the glory that he was shown by his master not also want to partake of that which his master also partook?
Having understood, by divine revelation of Christ, what the Spiritual Body of Christ was, why would Paul not be anxious to partake of the same?
Your question is dumb!!
You seek to avoid definition of Spirit and of Body as definitions quench your pointless views!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 05 2011,05:46) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 02 2011,09:34) What part of this you don't understand OR believe, “THE SON OF MAN CAN DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF, THE FATHER WHO IS IN ME (HE) DOTH THE WORKS”, you don't seem to see that God was truly (IN) Jesus and spoke to him and through Him first person.
Gene,I don't share your view that the Father, who Jesus always refers to as being “in heaven”, literally and physically dwelled inside of Jesus or anyone else.
I know you think this because you have no other way to explain John 20:28. I don't share that same problem with you, and am therefore not forced to imagine that the Creator of the universe lives physically inside any human being.
HI Mike,I agree with you that the Father as an entity,never left heaven in fact nobody could ever be in that realm with the exception of His Son.
I want to humbly clarify that ,the Father duelled in Jesus through the Holy Spirit. All creation was done through Jesus with the power of the holy Spirit from the Father. The functioning of these three entities is mysterious to us,but definitely,the Father was within His Son only through the power of the Holy Spirit.
Even the title Son is only for us to understand that His Son was eternally one with God the Father,but these are spirits,and spirits don't take space.I agree with estari that spirits don't have material bodies,or any kind of body,but with the exception of The Father, the Son ,and the Holy Spirit,all spiritual beings have a kind of a soul since they are created,and within them have a spirit,otherwise they couldn't exist, which belong to one of,or a combination of two from the three entities of God, also they are inferior to God. We should also keep in mind that Almighty God only has a combination of seven spirits.
Even our soul is a spirit,but it is the least of all the spirits which could abide in human flesh, in order that the Holy Spirit duel within that soul otherwise it would destroy the carnal body.
The reason that Adam lived 900 years it is because through sin He lost the presence of the Holy Spirit,and Satan spirit took over.After the flood,since God destroyed all humans, new generations could not live longer than 120 years for the simple reason that the Holy Spirit started to establish himself within the Son of God gradually,in order for Mary to be created and eventually born ,and since the Holy Spirit is of God, humans could not resist that kind of pure power longer than 120 years,since they were owned by Satan's spirit.
I hope that I was a kind of light
Love and Peace in Jesus Christ
Quote (csaliba @ June 04 2011,14:56)
HI Mike,I agree with you that the Father as an entity,never left heaven
As an entity, He is never said to be anywhere besides heaven, and so this part of your statement is accurate.Quote (csaliba @ June 04 2011,14:56)
in fact nobody could ever be in that realm with the exception of His Son.
Thanks for the thought, but Jesus says the angels of little children see the face of God always, and Satan and the other sons of God assembled with Him in Job 1. That is not to mention the creatures in Rev who are before His throne 24/7 saying “Holy, holy, holy……….”, or the myriads upon myriads of angels who are present when the Lamb takes the scroll from God's hand. So obviously Jesus isn't the ONLY one who can be in the realm that God is in, making this part of you statement scripturally inaccurate.mike
See that I answer Mike but he will wait several posts before responding with more nonsense then say that I did not answer him.
Mike is so blinded by the fact that he is wrong that – like Kathi – nothing that anyone shows him will change his mind. it's not From not being able to see the truth but from embarrassment in admitting it…
This is why he introduces the Symbolism of Revelation and Job as evidence.
Can anyone really believe that God sat round a table in heaven and Satan came through a doorway from 'Walking around IN the Earth'?
No, it is a STORY, an illustration of God's kingdom and organisation.
Satan did not physically do anything to Job but INFLUENCED THE SPIRIT, the MINDS of others.
Satan and the SONS OF GOD did not COME from anywhere to be with God – God 'Convened' his thoughts with those of the Spirit Sons… They, likewise, CONVENED their thoughts with Gods – that is the 'Coming before God'. Do we not 'COME TO GOD' when we also CONVENE our thoughts to God's?And as for 'Seeing the face of God' – please Mike… Please – don't make yourself look more stupid than you already do!
It is a sure desparate man who claims symbolic visions as factual matter!
John says in Rev 4:2, 'Immediately I was IN THE SPIRIT…' in the Spirit different from what? The Flesh, in the Body?
And he saw One sitting on a Throne and the One whom he saw was like precious jewels.
And around the throne was a rainbow and twenty four elders wearing crowns of gold.
So, not only are there MEN in heaven but also precious jewels and a seat as of a throne…! Really? Or are these symbolic for something?
And in the midst of the throne was the slain lamb of God (Mike, you would have to believe that Jesus was an REAL AND ACTUAL SLAIN LAMB! or do you make this an exception… But wait – there's more: Jesus is also the LION of the tribe of Judah!!)Every post Mike makes stretches his imagination into even greater depths of desperation for support.
Note that there is NOT ONE SINGLE PIECE OF EVIDENCE that Mike has presented that claims or states that Spirits have bodies – only by his warped insistence!What about the Horses in heaven, Mike? and and Trumpets and Robes and Seals and …And what about the Angel with the face (Rev 10:1) like the Sun (Jesus again?) if this Angels 'face' like the Sun in the material world then how much more awesome is the 'Face' of God (who can look directly at the sun – let alone God?)
Mike, come on, man – time to give up – truly !!
Please don't fault me for forming my understanding around the words of scripture. Jesus IS a spirit, and Jesus DOES have a body. And although I've shown you many more proofs during the course of this thread, that one simple fact is really all that is needed for you to know that spirits have bodies.
Phil 3
20 But our citizenship is in heaven – and we also await a savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 3:21 who will transform these humble bodies of ours 30 into the likeness of his glorious body by means of that power by which he is able to subject all things to himself.What more is there to say, Istari?
Mike,
Your FAULT is not around the words of Scriptures because you are well aware of them!You have access to the same source of knowledge as I do – you simply refuse to acknowledge them when they speak against you.
I posted definitions of BODY and SPIRIT which I asked YOU to do so there would nd no bias – but you refuse – why? Surely if it PROVED your case you would have done so, right?
Also, I posted a whole swathe of writings that mirror what I think (And everyone else apart from diehard delusionists) but you appear to COMPLETELY DISMISS IT – not even a comment. How weird – you ask for proof then COMPLETELY DISMISS IT!!!
The proof shows that Paul was speaking of MATERIAL MATTER – the different BODIES of the PHYSICAL WORLD…nothing at all to do with Spirit Heaven.
Question: 'How are the DEAD raised up?' The Dead … The bodies of the dead – how are the bodies of the dead to be raised up?
Answer: in the same manner that Jesus was RAISED UP!'And what was the manner that Jesus' body was raised up? A Spiritual Body, that is, one that cannot Die again, one that is incorruptible, cannot Sin, is righteous and capable of containing the full power of the Holy Spirit (The corruptible body only receives the spirit by measure – as much as it can stand!)
So if the 'Spiritual Body' is a Spirit Body then ALL in heaven ALREADY HAD SPIRIT/SPIRITUAL BODIES so nothing was PREEMINENT with Jesus…
Yes, Mike, Jesus IS SPIRIT… Yes, Mike, Jesus has a BODY…
Yes, Mike, 'Their' citizenship is in Heaven… Yes, Mike, they will receive a Glorious Spiritual Body…What you FAIL to acknowledge is that a BODY CANNOT INHERIT the kingdom of Heaven…
Where was Jesus when the 4,000 saw his body?
Where was Jesus when the two met him along the road?
Where was Jesus when the ten and then the Eleven saw him in the room?
Where was Jesus when the disciples saw him on the beach?Was Jesus not ON EARTH in his PHYSICAL BODY BODY THAT HE WAS RAISED UP IN?
Was that not WHY they did not recognise him – but their hearts burned within them for encountering a new and powerful BODIED PERSON – the person with a SPIRITUAL BODY.'With what body will the dead be raised up in?'
'A Spiritual Body – Just like the Spiritual Body Jesus was raised up in and Thomas touched him in the holes made by the nails in that same BODY now TRANSFORMED to a glorious BODY to prove that Jesus was REALLY A HUMAN BEING, flesh and Bone (note: not Blood)'
Jesus, himself, said 'See, I am not a Spirit because SPIRIT does not have flesh and bone as I have!'Mike, are you arguing with Jesus?
You want to know how Jesus is a Spirit in heaven but has a body…?
Man, you are crazy…! Your mental mind is deliberately prohibited by your mental spirit?Jesus 'puts off the body' when entering heaven – for a body cannot enter heaven!!!
How can you NOT understand that?
The definition of BODY states that it is an enclosed material matter in three dimensions!
Heaven is higher Dimensions – I have said, illustrated, diagrammed, raged, simplified…every aspect of dimensions but you claim to not understand and therefore poo-poo what YOU don't understand…
Man, how did you grow up (?) Did you PROVE everything to yourself before you accepted it – ok, yes, so that's why you still left wanting – Can you prove 'God' mike? No, so how are you believing? Oh, I see – your belief in God is based SOLELY on sentences and paragraphs in the Scriptures that you piece together – from reading – is that it? Oh, of course, and from NETBIBLE and NETNOTES!
Hmmm… Not a very wide scope of reading material then – and does NETNOTES say that Spiritual Body is a Spirit with a Body?Mike, know when to give up delusion – have the strength – maybe you cannot receive that 'measure' of wisdom from the Holy Spirit!!
Pray, Mike, Pray… Pray for Wisdom… Wisdom is the beginning of Truth and truth is your FAILING in this thread topic, Mike.Truth has deluded you simply for trying to oppose me, Istari, and the very Scriptures and testament of the Jesus and the Saints that you claim are your bread and butter for your life.
Well, you buttered the wrong side of the bread on this one, my man!Just turn it over then – there is wisdom!!
Mike,
You say you have shown 'many proofs' – you ARE crazy – the whole point is that you not shown One Single Proof…
For even 'One Single Proof' would have been enough…Mike, that's the point – you have not shown ANY PROOF AT ALL!!
Mike, the ONLY PROOF that you have shown is the PROOF that desperation clouds the mind and blocks out reality – viz: 'A desperate man will cling to straws' – Mike, you are SURE PROOF of that?
Mike, the Wolf had no problem blowing down the straw house and gobble up the piggies inside!
Quote (Istari @ June 06 2011,02:25) Mike,
You say you have shown 'many proofs' – you ARE crazy – the whole point is that you not shown One Single Proof…
For even 'One Single Proof' would have been enough…Mike, that's the point – you have not shown ANY PROOF AT ALL!!
Mike, the ONLY PROOF that you have shown is the PROOF that desperation clouds the mind and blocks out reality – viz: 'A desperate man will cling to straws' – Mike, you are SURE PROOF of that?
Mike, the Wolf had no problem blowing down the straw house and gobble up the piggies inside!
istariMt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mt 10:32 “Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven.
Mt 10:33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.you can not see and can not ear what we can do ? nothing until you clear things up in the truth of Gods word.
you mixed up with the physical world and the spiritual world ,you also are a selective answering machine,
there is nothing in this world or universe of creation that was and is created that as not is form or body of a sort,either gas,liquids or solid or spirit,
if it as not then it does not exist,
Pierre
Quote (Istari @ June 05 2011,02:11) What you FAIL to acknowledge is that a BODY CANNOT INHERIT the kingdom of Heaven…
This is your main misunderstanding, Istari. (I say main because there are many others.
)Scripture never says a BODY cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, but that FLESH can't inherit it. But in your mind, BODY equals FLESH. But you only think this because you are not adept enough to understand Paul's teaching in 1 Cor 15. The whole teaching is that God gives different kinds of bodies to different kinds of beings. Beings of earth have flesh bodies and beings of heaven have spiritual ones, for example.
In Phil 3, Paul, knowing his residence will be in heaven, awaits a transformed body adapted to living in heaven.
Why in the world would Paul, who was looking forward to living in heaven, be anxious about his new body if he wouldn't even HAVE a body in heaven?
Just CLEARLY answer this EXACT question. You may have attempted to answer it in one of your long, lumbering posts that you are so famous for. I usually don't even read them because they ramble on about nonsensical things.
Istari, let me give you some advice here: I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE. Many people skip right over your posts because of their length and unorganization. Make a SHORT and TO THE POINT post answering ONLY my question above, and I will read it.
(Then, after I read you explanation of why Paul was anxious about a body he wouldn't even need, I will clarify your misunderstandings for you.
)Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 05 2011,05:46) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 02 2011,09:34) What part of this you don't understand OR believe, “THE SON OF MAN CAN DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF, THE FATHER WHO IS IN ME (HE) DOTH THE WORKS”, you don't seem to see that God was truly (IN) Jesus and spoke to him and through Him first person.
Gene,I don't share your view that the Father, who Jesus always refers to as being “in heaven”, literally and physically dwelled inside of Jesus or anyone else.
I know you think this because you have no other way to explain John 20:28. I don't share that same problem with you, and am therefore not forced to imagine that the Creator of the universe lives physically inside any human being.
Mike…………..You never stop misrepresenting what is said, Where did i EVER say God> PHYSICALLY< lived (IN) Jesus, What i said is GOD who (IS) SPIRIT Lived (IN) Jesus . And that is not MY words but Jesus words himself and Thomas is who you are disagreeing with.peace and love…………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 06 2011,11:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 05 2011,05:46) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 02 2011,09:34) What part of this you don't understand OR believe, “THE SON OF MAN CAN DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF, THE FATHER WHO IS IN ME (HE) DOTH THE WORKS”, you don't seem to see that God was truly (IN) Jesus and spoke to him and through Him first person.
Gene,I don't share your view that the Father, who Jesus always refers to as being “in heaven”, literally and physically dwelled inside of Jesus or anyone else.
I know you think this because you have no other way to explain John 20:28. I don't share that same problem with you, and am therefore not forced to imagine that the Creator of the universe lives physically inside any human being.
Mike…………..You never stop misrepresenting what is said, Where did i EVER say God> PHYSICALLY< lived (IN) Jesus, What i said is GOD who (IS) SPIRIT Lived (IN) Jesus . And that is not MY words but Jesus words himself and Thomas is who you are disagreeing with.peace and love…………………………..gene
Geneyou still do not understand ,God or Christ are both spirit in form that is Christ nature now so they are not going into people ,but it is the the words of wisdom that they have made us know trough the prophets and Jesus and his disciples that can become part of our daily live by applying them.and it is so that they both are in us and with us,and above that the angels of the lord will protect us,because now we can live according to that spirit (words of God)and stop living according to the flesh.
this is the way to become holy like God our father is.
Pierre
Mike,
The REAL REASON you don't read my posts is because you cannot refute them so you CLAIM NOT TO READ THEM.
I see you can read the hundreds of lines in the posts between you and WJ because Both of you are playing games with each other so it is an EXCITING challenge to see which of you two can be the most infuriating to each other…
I, on the other hand, have no need for games – I simply tell the truth. Nothing more – nothing less.
If you can't understand a simple concept as 'Dimensions' then how can you possibly understand anything higher?!If you understand 'Dimensions' you would understand that no physical body can exist in higher than fourth dimension (Space and Time).
Space and Time is a restriction on material matter.
Space accommodates the physical world – Time makes it changeable.
The combination of matter over time gives the flow of matter – called movement…In the higher dimensions there are no restrictions because there is nothing to be be restricted!
This is the realm of Spirit!
Spirit is like THOUGHT and INTELLIGENCE. It requires no Space because it is Everywhere it wants to be: Think of somewhere and you ARE THERE… in thought – in SPIRIT – Is that not even something said? I am WITH YOU IN SPIRIT? my thoughts are with you? My spirit goes out to you!Mike, you say that I misunderstand what is meant by BODY – saying that I am only thinking of Flesh!!
Mike, you are a hard nut!! You don't even reach BASIC idiot level wisdom.
Have I not declared what body is – have I not shown it as ANY MATERIAL MATTER – how can you have read ANYTHING I have said and not known that – I said 'Flesh' is a Euphormism for ANY MATERIAL MATTER…
I said that NO MATERIAL MATTER can exist in the Heavenly realm!!
Why do you think I point out: Chariots, Men, Swords, Chairs, Horses…Mike, are you just being annoying because you have learnt that that works for some people!!
I asked you to define 'Body' but you DARE NOT!!
I asked you to Define 'Spirit' but you DARE NOT!!Yet you claim that – despite all the examples I give you and that You cannot – that it is I who doesn't understand! Flatlander man indeed!!
You point out a weak verse that says something vaguely what you think and you jump on it as 'Proof' yet you cannot understand what you read.
Why? Because it is only from desperation that you snatch at it regardless of it's true meaning.TheIR citizenship WILL CERTAINLY BE IN HEAVEN.
Their SPIRITUAL BODY will not be in heaven though.See that the verse says that they AWAIT the arrival of Jesus FROM HEAVEN who will transform their lowly bodies into ones like his.
Mike, when Jesus returns, what BODY will he be in? A Spiritual Body. And that is the body like which THEY will also be transformed to…
The verse DOES NOT SAY that Jesus' body is in heaven because Jesus is SPIRIT in heaven – and SPIRIT does not have a BODY (Mike, that is what SPIRIT means!!)
You simply cannot understand that a Spirit can 'Put on' and 'Put off' a body.
Spirit in the physical realm is what is IN A BODY animating it BUT restraining it in ONE PLACE where that body is. It becomes part of the body making it a SOUL.
Mike, is there a description of Jesus in heaven showing him as a human person or with a body- why not?
If your lazy theory is right there should be a description of Jesus in human form with holes in his body – show me that description?Do Spirits (Immaterial and invisible entities) have bodies…? Umm… No, for a body is made of material matter?
Mikeboll64 has INVENTED a new species of being – 'The Spirit of invention has given body to bodiless'
Spirit inIstari, was there a simple answer to my simple question in that last post of your? If so, then cut and paste ONLY the answer to my question so I can read it. I refuse to read your long drawn out posts on this subject, nor do I read them on any subject on any thread.
Say what you need to say clearly and succinctly. There is no need for the millions of unnecessary “World according to JA” words.
mike
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 05 2011,11:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 05 2011,05:46) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 02 2011,09:34) What part of this you don't understand OR believe, “THE SON OF MAN CAN DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF, THE FATHER WHO IS IN ME (HE) DOTH THE WORKS”, you don't seem to see that God was truly (IN) Jesus and spoke to him and through Him first person.
Gene,I don't share your view that the Father, who Jesus always refers to as being “in heaven”, literally and physically dwelled inside of Jesus or anyone else.
I know you think this because you have no other way to explain John 20:28. I don't share that same problem with you, and am therefore not forced to imagine that the Creator of the universe lives physically inside any human being.
Mike…………..You never stop misrepresenting what is said, Where did i EVER say God> PHYSICALLY< lived (IN) Jesus, What i said is GOD who (IS) SPIRIT Lived (IN) Jesus . And that is not MY words but Jesus words himself and Thomas is who you are disagreeing with.peace and love…………………………..gene
Okay Gene,Scratch the word “physically” from my post and deal only with the word “literally”. The fact remains that we disagree. And the fact that YOU disagree with me only confirms to me that I'm on the right track.
Gene,
Mike is weeping at his own folly so he thrashes at what he reads trying to muddy the waters.Time and time again he misrepresents what someone says hoping they won't realise what he has done.
The likes of WJ do that to him – so he does it to others.
Mike copies what he sees others do if he thinks it advantages him – good or BAD! Mostly Bad!!!He deliberately misrepresents so as to scatter the words presented to him.
He asked for 'Proof' but ignores it if he can't say against it.
See my post a couple of pages back showing a brilliant PROOF interpretation of 1 Corinthians 15, yet Mikeboll has COMPLETELY IGNORED IT…
You know how he usually say 'You have not answered me and I've asked you mega times' – well, you notice he didn't respond to the post but just posted another 'You didn't answer my direct question!'
The guy is insufferable… He just wants everyone to say what HE WANTS TO HEAR – and no one ever does – yet he still uses the same tired weary pointless tactic: remember his 'One point at a time' threat that NEVER EVER PANNED OUT to anything other than a million other 'One Points at a time'!
Why does he want to enclose the Free Spirit in a BODY when the Spirit wants to free itself grommets restrictions of the flesh? Kind of like a backward move?
But the Human flesh that attains a Spiritual value becomes GLORIOUS.
To be able to enter heaven, reside there and then come back down to earth – as Jesus can – is a wonderful thing. The others of mankind, great and privileged as it will be to be in Paradise Earth, will be BOUND to Earth and not experience the Glory of entering the Spirit realm as the elect will.So, ALL who come out of the Tribulation will have INCORRUPTIBLE SPIRITUAL BODIES…but only the Elect will enter heaven and have their abode there!
So, Mikeboll, what SPIRIT BODY will those on Paradise Earth have?
The resurrection, remember, is not ONLY for the ELECT!
Mike, TO WHOM WAS PAUL TALKING TO in 1 Corinthians 15?
To whom was he saying that they will have Spiritual Bodies.Mike, do you know what being SPIRITUAL is?
Please demonstrate the use of the word and term 'Spiritual'!
What is Spiritual Warmth?
Spiritual Breathe?
Spiritual Wisdom?
Spiritual Eye?
Spiritual Prayer?
Spiritual knowledge?
What is 'The Spiritual Man'?
What is the Spiritual Church?
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