Do spirits have bodies?

[shimmer]

But Gene, Jesus pre-existed before becoming man, as a Spirit.

So spirit doesnt need a body to exist.

[Baker]

To all

This is what Jesus said about a spirit.

Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Born simply means, brought forth.

Jhn 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Jesus was obviously talking about the resurrection, trying to explain to Nicodemus with what body the dead are resurrected.
A spirit body has no bones or flesh, nor blood, a spirit body is like the wind; why wind? you cant see wind, and you can't see a spirit being.
There is something a spirit being can do, as Jesus did after the resurrection, manifest himself as a human being; he did that so he could be seen by the apostles.
I find it pointless to debate something we know nothing about.

Georg

[terraricca]

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 27 2010,20:59)

Mike, Terrarica etc, DO SPIRITS HAVE BODIES? JA must be right you must be wrong ! Otherwise you are right and Jesus is wrong,,, NO, a spirit does not have flesh or organs. This is SIMPLE “And He (Jesus) said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? “See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. “ Luke 24:38-40 SO GOD WHO IS SPIRIT DOES NOT HAVE FLESH BONES HANDS OR FEET ETC NEITHER DO ANGELS ETC JA is right. Because scripture say's this. I'm sure I have already said this though ?

Shimmer
you did not understand what i say ,you read not to read,

Ps 94:9 Does he who implanted the ear not hear?
Does he who formed the eye not see?
Eze 33:32 Indeed, to them you are nothing more than one who sings love songs with a beautiful voice and plays an instrument well, for they hear your words but do not put them into practice.
let yourself not be decieve by your ignorance of scriptures;
Jer 5:21 Hear this, you foolish and senseless people,
who have eyes but do not see,
who have ears but do not hear:

Isa 28:14 Therefore hear the word of the LORD, you scoffers
who rule this people in Jerusalem.
Isa 28:23 Listen and hear my voice;
pay attention and hear what I say.

pierre

[JustAskin]

Terra,

This is not the first time you have been accused of quoting Scriptures out of context.

Terra, what you quote has nothing to do with Spirits and bodies….you just find verses with a certain word in it and quote it without looking at the context.

Why post this stuff. It just makes you look silly.

Shimmer is led by the Spirit more often.

George has rightly summed up what i have been saying…but i still go to a higher order…

You and Mike are stuck in fairy land, delusions of the flesh.

I have quoted before, 'The wind bloweth where it will'. What does this mean? Ten to one, you have no idea…you read it but you don't even begin to understand it…why??
Flesh and blood cannot occupy the Heavenly realm…nothing PHYSICAL can exist in the Heavenly realm…

There is no such thing as a Spirit with a body in the Heavenly realm.
Spirits are pure Energy…E=MC(2)…
I asked what this means…no one can answer…why…did you not all go to school???
It means Energy can be changed into Matter, MASS,…and Mass is Physical elements….
Please read that again several times for your homework tonight…i will test you on it in the morning after registration…

For those of you who have started eating meat, been weaned off milk…here is an advanced revelation…
Matter, Mass, Physical elements, can be transformed into pure Energy.

So, An Angel (who is pure Energy with Intelligence), can transform his Energy into a physical shape, a human being, a sword, fire, lightening (Jesus said that he saw Satan fall from Heaven like a lightening strike…what is lightening but…pure, raw Energy)

Even more advanced…what is the 'C' in the formulae….it stands for 'a Constant'…a fixed value for the specific Mass, the body. Further more, this Constant is Squared…multiplied by itself. This is a 'Binding Force', the force that keeps the Mass as one body, the transformation affect gives rise to Emitted Energy…light or heat or some other unseen element.

So, to transform pure Energy into Mass a physically viewable body element, requires for a huge binding force ('C') to be applied to an 'body' of Energy (That 'body' of Energy can be gathered from anywhere, for Free Energy is Everywhere)

Conversely, Mass is transformed into pure energy by removing the 'binding force'.

Doing so, in many cases, releases not only the Energy but also some heat and/or light.
What is Coal, or Oil, or Gas, but latent energy…create an environment to enable the object to release its latent energy and what is the output….heat, light…and smoke and other impurities…because these are the binding elements, the left overs.

Just watching tv this morning i see we are creating 'Internet CCTV Watchers'. Public shops wired up to the internet to watch for shoplifters. The watchers, 'Angels' can be anywhere….in the world and alerts the shop owner to the incident…
To the shopkeeper, the 'Angels' are disembodied store detectives with 'eyes and ears' everywhere in their shop…and, because there are so many Watchers, it's like they never sleep, nor need rest, nor eat, nor tire, always alert.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 27 2010,14:13)

But Gene, Jesus pre-existed before becoming man, as a Spirit. So spirit doesnt need a body to exist.

Shimmer………If you believe he did preexist but i don't believe he preexisted his berth on earth. Except in the plan and will of GOD.

peace and love………………………………..gene

[GeneBalthrop]

JA………….> Where do you get E=MC(2) to mean Mass under force Â2, means mass can be changed to to pure energy. The formula as i recall, means Energy is equal to force moving Mass . When Mass is moving it has energy like a car going down the road 60 mph it is mass (the car) being exhilarated by the engine and if the engine is turned off suddenly it will still continue to move until friction of some kind brings it to a stop. That to me is what E=MC(2) means, C is the force behind the Mass causing it to move and if that force is suddenly cut off the (inertia) will continue to carry that mass (or matter) until Resistance , friction over comes it and the mass or matter will cease to have energy and will come to rest.

This formula has little if any bearing on Spirit IMO Spirit exists in animate objects not in inanimate one. Another Words Spirit is the engine of Thought it is Intellect being transferred to give animation to things that have Life (IN) them. It is the LIFE that is in them. I believe the only thing that exists as pure spirit is GOD and it is this God that give LIFE to the WORLDS life forms. Angels Have Bodies and Spirit God puts in them causes them to act out what he has for them to do. Spirit (intellect) is the driving force of LIFE all LIFE. It is not the same as ATOMIC Structure of the Elements because they exhibit not thought or intellect whatsoever. What is you thought on this?

Now think about this if a Body was not necessary then why even have a resurrection for anyone with a body, especially Jesus, and remember he said he was (NOT) a SPIRIT as they Presumed he was and Identified his resurected Body as having flesh and Bone, and at the same time saying it was not Spirit. So if we follow you reasoning then how could Jesus deny He was Spirit if he was really spirit being transformed into a body but was actually spirit transformed. Would he not has instead said yes i am a Spirit being?

I believe Force acts on all matter and is the energy that causes it to move, that is true but thought involves cognitive awareness and that to me is different then E= MC(2). One is simply applied force the other involves cognition a working of thought and is not just force applied , one does not involve thought the other does. A planet moving it space does not think, a rock thrown in the air does not think, a bullet coming our of a gun does not think. Do you get my point? Maybe i am not perceiving what you are saying right JA?

peace and love to you and yours…………………………………….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Baker @ Nov. 27 2010,17:39)

To all This is what Jesus said about a spirit. Jhn 3:6   That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.   Born simply means, brought forth. Jhn 3:8   The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.   Jesus was obviously talking about the resurrection, trying to explain to Nicodemus with what body the dead are resurrected. A spirit body has no bones or flesh, nor blood, a spirit body is like the wind; why wind? you cant see wind, and you can't see a spirit being. There is something a spirit being can do, as Jesus did after the resurrection, manifest himself as a human being; he did that so he could be seen by the apostles. I find it pointless to debate something we know nothing about. Georg

Georg………..You cant see thought it is an invisible force (LIKE) the wind, Thought can go into you head , my head , or anyones head it can go where it is driven to. People who are born of the Spirit are alive with Bodies and the Spirit (IN) them is the force that can not be seen but the effects can be see in the lives of those who are driven by those spirits, rather they be good or evil. Jesus was Just giving us an example of how the Spirit works that is all. For the Kingdom of GOD comes without observation, because it is within a person. The Spirit of GOD is what goes into a BODY and gives it its life. You can not see that in fact spirit can not be seen only its effect can just like the wind. The wind does not have a body it self it is just a force of air. A spirit does not have a body it is Just a force that animates us all. Spirit is not a body it is what is (IN) a Body.

If we are not given New (BODIES) and Spirit add into them we will never continue to exist after we are die, It is crucial we recieve a body to continue to live and be a living SOUL again> After death, Just like Jesus had to have a body also no difference. He was the First to be raised from the dead and have a body returned back to him. When he was in that grave he was totally dead no life in him at all, dead as a dead duck. and would have remained that way for ever had GOD the Father not raised Him Up. IMO

peace and love to you and Irene…………………………gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 27 2010,13:59)

Mike, Terrarica etc, DO SPIRITS HAVE BODIES? JA must be right you must be wrong ! Otherwise you are right and Jesus is wrong,,, NO, a spirit does not have flesh or organs. This is SIMPLE

Hi Shimmer,

There are natural bodies, and then there are spiritual bodies. The man from earth possesses an “earthly body” and the man from heaven possesses a “heavenly body”.

This is scripture Shimmer – believe it or don't.

By the way, Paul doesn't say the spiritual body consists of flesh and blood and bones and organs, does he?

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Baker @ Nov. 27 2010,17:39)

Jesus was obviously talking about the resurrection, trying to explain to Nicodemus with what body the dead are resurrected. A spirit body has no bones or flesh, nor blood, a spirit body is like the wind; why wind? you cant see wind, and you can't see a spirit being.

Hi Georg,

I agree.  Like I've been saying all along, spirits DO have “bodies”, for the scriptures say so.  They are obviously not “bodies” as we understand “bodies”, but bodies nonetheless.

And while HUMANS cannot see those bodies unless they allow themselves to be seen by us, I assume the other spirits can see and recognize those bodies at any time.  Otherwise, how would the angels distinguish between Gabriel and Michael?  Or Jesus and God?  In other words, when the angels were gathered together with God in the Book of Job, how did they know where to go for this meeting?  I understand it as they all came to one place – the presence of God Himself.

Job 1 NIV
6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”

Georg, many people seem to think that God is everywhere all the time.  I don't see it that way.  From the passage above we can learn that God did not seem to know where Satan came from.  We also can see that he came FROM somewhere and came TO the place where he was then “in God's presence”.  If God is everywhere all the time, the angels would not have had to COME FROM anywhere to BE IN His presence.

Anyway, your own words confirm that spirits DO have bodies, and while I agree we know little else about the subject, I am glad we apparently see eye to eye on the fact that they DO have some sort of “body”.

peace and love,
mike

[gollamudi]

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 27 2010,14:13)

But Gene, Jesus pre-existed before becoming man, as a Spirit. So spirit doesnt need a body to exist.

Hi Sis Karmarie,
Sorry to bother you. N.T says Jesus was resurrected with a body of flesh and bones as per Luke. But many preexistence believers claim here that Jesus was preexisting as a Spirit being and became human. Now he gone back to his original state as Spirit. Is it correct? But N.T differs with that view as it states that Jesus now had become a glorified man and exalted to sit at right side of God. John says he was the only (son of ) man who ascended to heaven though he ignores Enoch and Elijah. I know you all believe that Jesus came down from heaven as a Spirit and taken incarnation. I don't know why Paul says the following if Jesus had gone back to his former state as a Spirit after his successful mission on planet earth.
1 Tim 2:5
“For there is one God and one intermediary  between God and humanity, Christ Jesus, himself human,”

I wonder how the N.T writers did not have problem in quoting such dual language one side preexistence and on other side no preexistence of Jesus this I noticed in Paul's Epistles as well as in John and Hebrews.

These are my few observations on Jesus.

Thanks and love to you
Adam

[JustAskin]

Gene,
Your last point is correct.

I did not include the 'Intellect' in the equation because Science does not believe in it therewise Einstein would have had to add to his 'oh so perfectly simple' formulae.

E=MC(2), means that the energy contained in a body is equivalent to it's Mass times a Constant squared.

All Matter has Mass, and Mass is compressed and contained Energy.

An Atom, is compressed energy restrained by a binding force.

Break the binding force, say, in a Large Handron Collider…and you release an enormous amount of energy…have you heard that somewhere…i'm sure you can Google it!!

Take a crumb of bread…have you heard that one…release the energy in a crumb and you have enough energy to last you a year…or something like that.

Since Angels are Spirits and are Intellect with Energy force, they can, God permitting, materialise anywhere and to whatever extent is required.

Lesser materialisation means the shape, usually in the shape of a human being, gives a 'Ghostly' effect, transparent. Others can glow like light, and, of course, they can become full body…but always, they can be discerned as nonhuman by their nature…they do not veer from their commission, they do not dalley, they do not argue nor carry frivolous conversations. They do have allowances for compassion, as with Abraham, Lot, Daniel, Moses, etc, but always, the human must be righteous in his pleas, and the outcome must ultimately fulfill the task of the Angel for he must accomplish that which God commissioned him with.
The Angel can also materialise other objects…Swords, Horses, Chariots, fire (Which is simply unleashed energy).

Ask, why would Angels need Swords? Since Angels cannot die, what use are Swords, war horses, Bows and Arrows, Shields, Breastplates, Grieves, etc. Surely, these are figurative objects for human minds, symbolic objects for our understanding of war in the heavens, power verses power, energy against energy, intellect against intellect, force against force. When the heavens thunder, when lightening flashes, when the sun is blotted out by the smoke from the fire…are these things physically going to happen…or are they symbolic occurances, mataphores, figurative acts.
Are we to look out for the sun to stop shining and know that the end is nigh? No…

And Jesus … What have i said…Jesus is a new MAN, a Spiritual Man…
Jesus is the FIRST of these Spiritual Men, Man with a Spirit that can exist without a body…

Jesus can be in Heaven in the FORM of a Spirit…and can be on earth in the FORM of a human.

His body on earth is not 'nondescript' like an Angel, but has fixed features that can be recognised…His Disciples didn't recognise him at first because he was a 'pure Adam'. All who are reborn of the spirit will acquire 'pure Adomic' bodies, all impure aspects of their original bodies will be made whole. A snub nose will be mended, hair lost will be replaced, short statured by desease will made tall, eyesight restored, everything as new and whole…so yes, some may not be immediately recognised by those who knew them before , but they will have an eternity to get to know them…

And how is Jesus to appear to all on earth is he is a single physical being…he could only be in one place at a time… But, if he were in a higher dimension, then he could be in many places at the same time, in all places at the same time, seen by everyone on earth at the same time.
A person with a 'body' could not do that….he has to be 'out of body'…in Spirit…his 'body' materialising 'in the clouds', everyone everywhere looking up will see him from their own viewpoint at the same time Like a 'shaped hall of mirrors', no matter where you stand, you will see the same person, Jesus. Everyone, no matter where they are standing, will see the same person, Jesus Christ.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 27 2010,21:50)

Terra, This is not the first time you have been accused of quoting Scriptures out of context. Terra, what you quote has nothing to do with Spirits and bodies….you just find verses with a certain word in it and quote it without looking at the context. Why post this stuff. It just makes you look silly. Shimmer is led by the Spirit more often. George has rightly summed up what i have been saying…but i still go to a higher order… You and Mike are stuck in fairy land, delusions of the flesh.

Hi JA,

This is an interesting take on things that you have.  First, the scripture Pierre posted was:

Ps 94:9 Does he who implanted the ear not hear?
Does he who formed the eye not see?

Does God have “eyes” JA?  Does He have “ears”?  He apparently has a “face” for at least two times scripture refers to it.

And Georg seems to agree that spirits DO have bodies, just not bodies we are able to see or touch at this time.

And Shimmer agrees with scripture, she just doesn't yet realize that not all “bodies” are made of flesh and bone and organs, etc.  She'll come around alright.

Gene also seems to agree that angels have bodies, but he's just confused that angels actually ARE SPIRITS.  

So you seem to be standing alone on this one with all of the intelligence you keep claiming you have while ignoring the very words of the most intelligent One of all.

JA, there is a “body” of air.  A “body” of water.  A “body” of gas”.  And even a “body” of wind.  Any barrier that separates what's on the inside from what's on the outside is a “body”.  When invisible, untouchable gas leaks from a pipeline, there is a limit to where the gas IS and where it has not yet expanded or floated to.  That “pocket” of gas floating invisibly through the air is a BODY OF GAS.

A lake is a BODY OF WATER.  

Can you not understand this yet, O wise one?  The thing that distinguishes that a lake IS water and the shoreline is NOT water is a BODY.

And that's what I've been saying all along JA.  If there is no “barrier” that signifies where Michael ends and Gabriel begins, then all spirits, including God would be a mix of ONE SPIRIT BEING.  Without a BODY, there would be no individual named “Michael the Archangel”, because Michael would be a part of the ONE SPIRIT BEING that includes God, Jesus, and all of the angels (whether evil or righteous).  Without a BODY, then there is nothing separating Satan and his minions from God and His righteous angels.  They would all be ONE SPIRIT BEING. And we know that can't be the case, for God and Jesus are two separtate persons. And we know that there are “myriads of myriads” of INDIVIDUAL angels in existence.

Hmmmmmm………….  Who is it that seems stuck in “fairie land”?

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 28 2010,02:32)

“For there is one God and one intermediary between God and humanity, Christ Jesus, himself human,”

Hi Adam,

Paul also says the MAN of heaven has a spiritual body. Does he mean “human being” in this case?

mike

[gollamudi]

Hi brother Mike,
As per Hebrew Bible human beings emanate from this planet earth not from heaven where only non-human beings emanate. N.T consists of lot of such myth as you just claimed. Same Paul claimed Jesus was man from heaven even John allegedly stated ignorantly that Jesus was the first man who ascended to heaven but there were two others as per Hebrew SCRIPTURES.

So your Paul's Spiritual body of Jesus is having flesh and bones as also Luke claimed or only So called Spirit body which doesn't have flesh and bones as Jesus claimed?

You have not answered me whether Jesus went back to his non-human Spirit body or glorified human body with holes and wounds so that Thomas could insert his fingers and test?

How many myths can Christianity incorporate into its faith?

[JustAskin]

Poor desperate Mike,
You can't compare a body of water which is not free Spirit, with free spirit energy.
And even a 'body' of gas is not 'free' but contained in a body of air, or another physical container. And the wind…we were speaking figuratively…is contained in the bounds of the earth.
Raise your level of thinking…goodness knows, it took you long enough to get this far, yet to still fighting the Spirit of truth.

You are still stuck giving examples of earthly forms..try a bit harder…Spiritual form, Mike, Spiritual forms.

[terraricca]

Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 28 2010,10:15)

Hi brother Mike, As per Hebrew Bible human beings emanate from this planet earth not from heaven where only non-human beings emanate. N.T consists of lot of such myth as you just claimed. Same Paul claimed Jesus was man from heaven even John allegedly stated ignorantly that Jesus was the first man who ascended to heaven but there were two others as per Hebrew SCRIPTURES. So your Paul's Spiritual body of Jesus is having flesh and bones as also Luke claimed or only So called Spirit body which doesn't have flesh and bones as Jesus claimed? You have not answered me whether Jesus went back to his non-human Spirit body or glorified human body with holes and wounds so that Thomas could insert his fingers and test? How many myths can Christianity incorporate into its faith?

Adam

wich Hebrew version are you using??

Pierre

[terraricca]

Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 28 2010,12:11)

Poor desperate Mike, You can't compare a body of water which is not free Spirit, with free spirit energy. And even a 'body' of gas is not 'free' but contained in a body of air, or another physical container. And the wind…we were speaking figuratively…is contained in the bounds of the earth. Raise your level of thinking…goodness knows, it took you long enough to get this far, yet to still fighting the Spirit of truth. You are still stuck giving examples of earthly forms..try a bit harder…Spiritual form, Mike, Spiritual forms.

JA

you are stuck but refuse to admit it,so you now burbling.

Pierre

[JustAskin]

Terra,
Stuck…i hardly think so.

It is you and Mike who are stuck. You are stuck in your fleshly thinking. You cannot raise your spiritual eyes and ears to see and hear the word of the spirit.

Mike is clearly relaying examples of earthly objects. He knows he is wrong because in order to make up the the desparate physical claims of 'body' he had to have known to avoid all spiritual examples…

So, his own deliberateness has betrayed him.

We are discussing 'Spiritual bodies' and Mike is quoting 'physical bodies'. Why?
Because he can't cope with Spiritual.

Mike just likes to argue so when some one is right he just says the opposite.

Mike knows that i am right but cannot stand knowing he has been bested. He has had this problem fir a long time and it is why his debates and discussions go on for so long, in fact, never ending…everlasting….
I feel he will be lost if he were to ever end a debate or discussion.

Even when he wins a debate, he is not happy….i gave him the win in 'Mikeboll vs ja' and he is still arguing today…

Terra, you just seem to be following on behind me sniping…why?

[terraricca]

Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 28 2010,14:01)

Terra, Stuck…i hardly think so. It is you and Mike who are stuck. You are stuck in your fleshly thinking. You cannot raise your spiritual eyes and ears to see and hear the word of the spirit. Mike is clearly relaying examples of earthly objects. He knows he is wrong because in order to make up the the desparate physical claims of 'body' he had to have known to avoid all spiritual examples… So, his own deliberateness has betrayed him. We are discussing 'Spiritual bodies' and Mike is quoting 'physical bodies'. Why? Because he can't cope with Spiritual. Mike just likes to argue so when some one is right he just says the opposite. Mike knows that i am right but cannot stand knowing he has been bested. He has had this problem fir a long time and it is why his debates and discussions go on for so long, in fact, never ending…everlasting…. I feel he will be lost if he were to ever end a debate or discussion. Even when he wins a debate, he is not happy….i gave him the win in 'Mikeboll vs ja' and he is still arguing today… Terra, you just seem to be following on behind me sniping…why?

JA

pay attention;;
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

Pierre

[GeneBalthrop]

Terricca…………So if GOD as you say formed the universe at (HIS) command , then where is Jesus who you say created everything both visible and inviable. Is he your GOD that formed it or not, are you still a trinitarian, i know you believe Jesus preexisted as they do and now you seem to believe He was or IS the CREATOR GOD. And let not forget Isaiah44:24……….Thus says the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed you from the womb, I am the LORD that Makes (ALL) things; that stretches forth the Heaven (ALONE); that spreads abroad the earth (BY) (MYSELF).

Terrica what part of BY MYSELF and ALONE you cant' understand. Now are we to believe what you quote from a text that uses a word (BY) in the GREEK that (IS) translated 50 different ways in Greek scripture like the word (Through), I believe i posted over 50 some odd different translation of that word. I”ll believe what the Hebrew Text say over the Trinitarians version of the Gnostic forcing the text to mean what contradicts the Old Testament. If GOD says he created every thing (ALONE AND BY HIMSELF) i will just believe that thanks. You can twist scripture all you want and believe what ever you want. IMO

peace and love……………………..gene

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