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JA……….I believe Sprites are typified as groups, for insistence there are clean and unclean spirits, There is a Spirit of a sound mind spoken there are SEVEN SPIRITS of GOD also spoken of, Follow what i am saying ? These spirits are forces that cause thoughts and therefor move us in directions , they are the powers of the Mind. Remember when Jesus said to his disciples to not leave Jerusalem until they recieved POWER from on HIGH. I thing God can add or subtract Spirit in his creation, and therefore He can cleans anyone and cause change by altering these spirit in a person. So When he says “though you sins be red Crimson they shall be like wool or snow” show how he can remove the unclean spirits and replace them with clean spirits,and these spirit will change us and perfect us. That is why it is so important we ask for the Spirit of GOD so we can think more like He does. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………………gene
To be quite honest, I think understanding the messages that God sends is vastly more important than understanding the metaphysical make-up of the messengers. I am not be as well-versed as many people about the bible. To my mind with what I have been given to understand at this point in time I don't have enough information to have an absolutely certain knowledge of the heavenly realm or the beings in the heavenly realm. I do believe that all the messages are precisely what God wanted to communicate to a particular person or culture at that time in history. I think that they were tailored for the best understanding of the mind-sets of that time, which is why nowadays there is some difficulty in understanding some things that are communicated to us through the written words in the bible. I read about how in the early church they were mostly of one mind and spirit and that this is God's wish for his people. I submit that it was easier for this to be accomplished then because they were all from a fairly common cultural background. Today we have people just posting to this web-site that are from very different cultural backgrounds. I know that my next statement is not scriptual, but, I have read in the buddhist teachings about the “middle-path”. This to my mind is an “all things in moderation” kind of idea. Even Jesus enjoyed some wine every now and then. I am sure he wasn't an alchoholic. I am currently using internet resources to come to a better understanding of Hebraic thinking. I just put the words “hebraic thinking” in google and am reading what folks have written. My method is to read many articles and to synthesize and understanding from various viewpoints. I am not done yet, however, a few things I have learned is that in Hebraic thinking the truth is sometimes a paradox and this is a perfectly acceptable result to the Hebraic mind-set. The important things to the Hebraic mind-set are behaviours and actions in accordance with God's will learned from the scriptures and not theological philosophies. I truly believe there is some good wisdom in these ideas.
Quote Psalm 29:11 (King James Version) 11The LORD will give strength unto his people; the LORD will bless his people with peace.
While we may not always be in perfect agreement with one another in regards to theological philosophizing or metaphysical reality, I believe if we truly desire to be God's people we can co-exist within a peaceable spirit.With Love and Respect,
WispringQuote I have read in the buddhist teachings about the “middle-path”. This to my mind is an “all things in moderation” kind of idea.
Wispring,
I agree, truth is truth no matter what the source.When I first started seeking truth the one thing I felt God impressed on me was balance, there are extremes to all teachings and in most cases truth is found in “the middle path”, a balance between them.
My opinion – Wm
Wispring, you are moving in the right direction – may God bless and guide your steps.
You say you think Spirits are 'Thought', 'of the mind' etc. and so concur that it is not embodied.
You say it is 'Power' – and I hope you say so from your own thought – your own Spirit – your own mind and that my Spirit did not infuse you and influence you to say so.
Wispring, I am with you on that in Spirit by the power of my mind because it is impossible for the body to be so except by the passing of much time.
How is the ethereal computer program (which are letters and words and sentences and paragraphs of computer code) able to animate the screen of a Computer, to activate the physical printer or move the webcam to follow the viewer?
The program is the Spirit – the Electricity is the Power.
The BODY parts are the Components, the casing, the peripherals (Screen, Keyboard, Printer, Mouse, drawing Tablet…etc.)
Analogies… Never try too hard to analyse an Analogy… Take the ESSENCE (the Spirit) of it's meaning – not the FACTS (Body) … The Spirit of the Analogy not the Letter!
When Mike fails to win a point he strikes back by digging into 'precise meaning' of each word thus degrading the whole message… Because he then overanalyses each individual word making the whole sentence a nonsense…
Mike keeps suggesting that only he knows that God and Jesus are separate beings from his manic debates with WJ. He thrusts on the rest of us his anger from another debate thread then demands us to answer his ridiculous questions of 'What separates them – what stops them melding into each other as if he thinks that Spirits need separating boundaries.
If he thought for a moment what SPIRIT is then he would have no problem realising that POWER AND THOUGHT are not MATERIAL Matter that require separation.I gave him many examples such as AIR – many different chemical elements ALL MELDED together in a fluid ever changing atmosphere — yet – can each element not be separated to a body of similar parts… Oxygen, Carbon, Nitogen, Hydrogen…
Jesus says that the Spirit is like the wind… That is not enough for Mikeboll – even Jesus Christ is not enough for Mikeboll – Mikeboll says Jesus was speaking falsely when he said that the Spirit was like the Wind.Fancy that – Mikeboll64 knows more than Jesus?? Oh yes, of course he would – he thinks he's God!!
Everyone – Anyone reading here…
Please Google 'Jesus said the Spirit is like the wind'.
I think Mikeboll will run away with shame – although he need only say 'Ok, I was wrong – I concede!'
My writing is ONLY to bring enlightenment and Truth – not for saying 'I'm right – I'm right – ya ya!'
So, if you want an answer that ISTARI did not write please check the google links.
Then – any who are still maligned in thought do this: PROVE THAT SPIRIT HAS BODY?
Wispring! I read your post and found it good. If we would all feel that in spite of our differences consider, that all have fallen short of the glory of God, we would not have abuse and personal; attacks on any member at Heaven Net. That is also how a Christians should behave. We should all look up to Jesus… What would He do or say. To humble our-self and be kind to others. That I feel is lacking in some here. I have appreciated Paladin and you for that matter, because even though we disagree on some, you do not get personal….Keep up the good work…. Gods Holy Spirit is working in you, I see it crystal clear….Peace to you, Irene
goodness – Mike is now wanting to worship Angels (Page 59).
If there was anything that shows how wrongful thinking leads one down a one way road to destruction, Mikeboll has mastered it.
Mike, I just have to add, I have seen Istari speak of things that many here have no knowledge of. Enoch, in the book of Enoch, also spoke of things that nobody else had knowledge of. Enoch in the Bible walked with God, and Enoch was taken away. Many believe that he will be one of the Two Witnesses of Revelation, so Enoch when he comes, if they are right, will also speak of things that nobody knows nothing about.
Who will he be speaking to?
We are all on a journey and we all go through things that others don't understand. I have studied Islam, I have studied Judaism, Hopi Indian Prophecy, Illuminati, conspiracy theories,
I have studied natural treatment, so on, I have learnt much.At the time people didn't understand, they thought I was turning to Islam for example, but I wasnt. I was just learning their ways, seeing things through their eyes, then I walked away.
My belief has not changed from being on this website, its the same almost as when I came. I don't believe in the Trinity I believe in the Bible, I don't believe in eternal hell torment because God is love, I believe much can be learnt from Judaism, as Gentiles seem to get a bit off course with a lot that they say, just as Jews can learn of the son of God through us, and Islam too, all three are just as bad as each other, yet each has things that the others don't. We all live on this planet and in our own ways we are all seeking truth.
Quote (shimmer @ May 19 2011,09:48) Mike, I just have to add, I have seen Istari speak of things that many here have no knowledge of. Enoch, in the book of Enoch, also spoke of things that nobody else had knowledge of. Enoch in the Bible walked with God, and Enoch was taken away. Many believe that he will be one of the Two Witnesses of Revelation, so Enoch when he comes, if they are right, will also speak of things that nobody knows nothing about. Who will he be speaking to?
We are all on a journey and we all go through things that others don't understand. I have studied Islam, I have studied Judaism, Hopi Indian Prophecy, Illuminati, conspiracy theories,
I have studied natural treatment, so on, I have learnt much.At the time people didn't understand, they thought I was turning to Islam for example, but I wasnt. I was just learning their ways, seeing things through their eyes, then I walked away.
My belief has not changed from being on this website, its the same almost as when I came. I don't believe in the Trinity I believe in the Bible, I don't believe in eternal hell torment because God is love, I believe much can be learnt from Judaism, as Gentiles seem to get a bit off course with a lot that they say, just as Jews can learn of the son of God through us, and Islam too, all three are just as bad as each other, yet each has things that the others don't. We all live on this planet and in our own ways we are all seeking truth.
Shimmer, good post. I have never looked into any other religion, though. Right or wrong, they one day will have to learn the hard way, or die forever. When Jesus comes again, He will only teach the truth. As far as Istari goes He would be a good Person, if He only could stop to get personal. We all have to learn yet. Not one of us has all truths. Since we left an organized religion, God has shown us a lot. Whether you believe in the preexisting or not, it is simple uncalled for to get personal…
It took us forever to understand that Jesus preexisted. just like whoever believes in the trinity, they don't want to believe its wrong either. I also have learned that it is only God who can show us. All we can do is show Scriptures. Then it is up to the person to ask God for wisdom to understand it. That I too had to learn….
Nothing in this life is easy. And besides do we really know a person what they really go through each and every day? I don't think so…. So in Gods grace, may God be with you and yours, Peace IreneQuote (shimmer @ May 18 2011,16:48) Mike, I just have to add, I have seen Istari speak of things that many here have no knowledge of. Enoch when he comes, if they are right, will also speak of things that nobody knows nothing about.
Who will he be speaking to?
Hi Shimmer,I can't tell you who he will speak to, but I can tell you who won't be listening unless what he says is supported by the scriptures themselves. Even Jesus supported his claims with the words of the OT. Many false prophets abound, Shimmer. But every good tree is known by its fruit.
peace to you,
mikeQuote (shimmer @ May 19 2011,16:48) Mike, I just have to add, I have seen Istari speak of things that many here have no knowledge of. Enoch, in the book of Enoch, also spoke of things that nobody else had knowledge of. Enoch in the Bible walked with God, and Enoch was taken away. Many believe that he will be one of the Two Witnesses of Revelation, so Enoch when he comes, if they are right, will also speak of things that nobody knows nothing about. Who will he be speaking to?
We are all on a journey and we all go through things that others don't understand. I have studied Islam, I have studied Judaism, Hopi Indian Prophecy, Illuminati, conspiracy theories,
I have studied natural treatment, so on, I have learnt much.At the time people didn't understand, they thought I was turning to Islam for example, but I wasnt. I was just learning their ways, seeing things through their eyes, then I walked away.
My belief has not changed from being on this website, its the same almost as when I came. I don't believe in the Trinity I believe in the Bible, I don't believe in eternal hell torment because God is love, I believe much can be learnt from Judaism, as Gentiles seem to get a bit off course with a lot that they say, just as Jews can learn of the son of God through us, and Islam too, all three are just as bad as each other, yet each has things that the others don't. We all live on this planet and in our own ways we are all seeking truth.
shimmerI have read the book of Enoch,and most of the so called gospels
and many religion basic principals of believes,their origin,ectnone equals the bible ,there is not Godly spirit in any other religion ,
and only if we fallow the scriptures we are in the truth of God other wise we are not in the truth,
that is made clear in scriptures.
Pierre
Forum opinion, church and personal writing, books, bible commentaries and teachers can be just as off and dangerous as the individual who hears voices and has visions.
Insight and visions must be in line with scripture.
Even scripture must be tested with what is revealed to our hearts.
I have had the spirit show me that something was not right in scripture and when I looked into it, it was mistranslated.
We need to trust in God through prayer and ask.
And as you said Irene, we must be carefull how we treat people. We never know what is happening in an individuals life.
The greatest thing is love.
Quote (Istari @ May 18 2011,06:26) 'Where can I go to hide from your presence… In the depth of the earth… To the ends of the earth… To the heavens … To the planets… The roaring fire…the centre of the tornado…In the darkest place …in the brightest light….in death… In Spirit… In mind, in soul, in despair, in delight, in pleasure, in pain, in righteousness, in Sin… where can I go that I am not in your presence – that your Spirit cannot be with me – that you have no knowledge of me – where? I know not one place' (My quote from the Psalm)
Istari, thats really good!Irene,
You rightly profile your journey from a wrongfully directed sector of Christian religion to your current position. You found it painful to let go of deep rooted esconched beliefs (Also, I bet, struggling to accept where you were being led (Abraham had no idea where heveas bring led to but had great faith such that God blessed him for it)).Now, as then, Irene, you need to have that same faith and ditch the rich sentimentalism of 'Angels with Bodies'.
Like Mikeboll64, you are probably tainted by pictures of Angels with Wings and other artistic visualisations… Irene, these have scarred you and when you 'Imagine' Heaven you see it as the human created visions scarred in your brain.
Why? Because it is the only way that you can receive the Spirit of 'Spiritual Sight'.Mikeboll64 – do not follow him – do not accept his support – he is the one that led you in your misinterpretation of 'Spiritual Body' – and now he has left you and no longer believes what he taught you!
Irene, Mikeboll64 understands that HE and YOU are misinterpreting 'Spiritual Body'… He has his dictionaries and Thesaurauses and the whole of the Internet, yet refuses to use them for PROOF – that is Why he has returned to 'Show from Scriptures'.You, Irene, claim that you don't Goggle – 'Goggle' – you mean 'Google' but anyway where did I know that from – was it not from You when you looked up 'Celestial' and 'Celestial Bodies'.
Irene, how did you manage to search the WHOLE OF THE INTERNET and miss EVERY SINGLE definition and writing on 'Celestial Bodies' and arrive at one single obscure reference that made an obscure point of 'Angels as Celestial Beings'
Irene, Angels as Celestial beings is POETIC – Sentimental feelings – not real. It comes from the SHIMMERING effect of their glowing pure White robes when they appear in the PHYSICAL WORLD.Far from Fluffy winged women in flowing gowns more often pictured in prayerful pose, Angels are MALE and of IMMENSE POWER with precise duties that MUST BE PERFORMED or they are 'dead' angels – God does not suffer 'sinful' angels – there is no redemption for angels for they are fully endowed with all that is required for their task – failure means they are 'Faulty Components' fit only for the unredeeming fire!!
So, how is this picture of weeping praying women stacking up against the reality of Angels?
Sure, Irene, they can be gentle – if the receiver is compliant – sure they can have compassion – but ONLY AS LONG AS THEIR TASK IS COMPLETED as requested by God their sender! Resistance from the receiver means the Angel will invoke their power to I'll effect on the receiver.
Do I need to show you proof – you know me – and I repeat – You should know these things – else how are you claiming against me – but just so you understand:
– Gabriel and The (Kings and Prince of Persia – Book of Daniel)
– Balaam and the mighty angel with a flaming sword
– Lot in Sodom and Gomorrah
– Abraham and Jacob
– The father of John the Baptist
– Saul/Paul on the road to Damascus
These are some examples of both compassion and force…Now, Irene, you need to see that YOU are being resistant against truth in this thread.
You have CHOSEN to misinterpret 'Spiritual Body' for wrongful reasons and yet plead mercy against the consequences.You try not at all to define what you say but only keep posting the same verses over and over with No Support from anywhere else in Scriptures (If that is all you think you need to do!)
You refuse to check any other sources PRECISELY because you KNOW they speak against you.Even Mikeboll64 knows to stop. His repetitive singular hue and cry is 'What separates God from Jesus – One Spirit from another'
So, Mikeboll64, 'Nothing Separates on Spirit from another' for Spirits are not Material entities that require separation… Spirits are Immaterial – No material – the definition of Spirit, even from your own netBible, tells you so!
The Sky is blue – so Mikeboll64 cannot accep this and delves into the exact definition of 'Blue' and that colours are only electrical sensations in our eyes – well, yes, that is true but come back up and let me restate the point: The sky is blue… So mike takes another tack – oh during the day… Sometimes it's cloudy, you can't see it sometimes – … Then his killer question: 'Can you state categorically that the sky cannot be anything other than blue – answer me 'Yes or No''
Wow – he's such a man – a real catch, eh girls! So strong, masculine and forceful!!And you know, Irene, at the end (Mikes posts never end – they are everlasting for he IS GOD (He thinks)) everyone agrees : the sky is blue … Simple as that!
Mike stretches his imagination to no end…to all ends.
Can anyone else disagree that Book of Job is allegorical?
It is a Poem… Not how it is written in our language but in it's original form.
It is a compilation of how God sees man and how man should reach out to God for all his salvation.
It is about how man is tempted even in his wealth by God – it is about sin, temptation, restraining from the easy way out, and worship of God even in your affection, and finally how God redeems a man and rewards him more than he had before.All this is patently obvious – yet Mikeboll tries to use it to claim reality that Angels sit around tables in heaven – and 'come and Go' physically from one place to another.
I showed Him that Satan did not Physically Go anywhere but INFLUENCED the SPIRITS of Job's tormentors – The Spirit did not 'come' physically anywhere.
Why? Even the very wording 'Spirit' and 'Physical' do not sleep together- they are polar opposites.
Yet Mike cannot see this and – think – he would have to DREAM UP ideas of how invisible bodiless Immaterial THOUGHT and POWER physically enter into a person.
No matter what I show Him he says 'You still haven't answered my question'Even Shimmer showed Him from his favourite 'What the Church fathers said' – I see from Kathi's thread that now he says 'I don't give a hoot what anyone says if it ain't in the scriptures'
Funny that – who read his posts in his threads with WJ and KJ and SF and that other Trinnies guy? Hmm… Lots of Church fathers and none scripture stuff there !!!So, it seems Mike is selective what he chooses to use as proof and ignores truth that HE DOESNT LIKE and uses Scriptures in one way then another depending on who he is discoursing with…
A rudderless ship indeed!Irene, what is a SPIRITUAL BODY?
Please can you let me know what you think it is (Without using 'It is sown….' for you ate COMPLETELY WRONG on that – All the things Paul mentions in 1 Cor 15, are Material matter – and furthermore – the GLORIOUS SPIRITUAL SINLESS INCORRUPTIBLE BODY that Jesus was raised in was the SAME BODY with the memorial wounds that he died in but transformed – irene, the Transformed body is the Spiritual Body – not a SPIRIT BODY)Irene Irene Irene Irene Irene Irene….
Spiritual Body …. Spiritual Body …. Spiritual Body … Spiritual Body
Not not not not not not not
Spirit body.
Irene, show me ONE SINGLE REFERENCE to 'Spirit Body' from ANYWHERE?
Irene, God is SPIRIT – DOES GOD HAVE A BODY?Irene, what is the SPIRIT BODY composed of?
Irene, Mikeboll64 does not believe that SPIRITS have Material bodies…
What he has FALLEN DOWN TO is that 'There MUST BE a separating SKIN Between each Spirit to keep them apart ' …. Ha ha ha ha ha …. Sorry … Ha ha ha ha,,..Is there a 'Separating Skin' between your thoughts?
See – Irene, not a BODY … but a SKIN – he says that the Spiri
t is in a Skin – a container – that God is in a Container… Ha ha ha ha .. If God is in a container – who is containing the container that God is in?Quote (shimmer @ May 19 2011,16:17) Even scripture must be tested with what is revealed to our hearts. I have had the spirit show me that something was not right in scripture and when I looked into it, it was mistranslated.
We need to trust in God through prayer and ask.
Shimmer,
No argument on love being the greatest thing but just to clarify; scriptures test our revelations of truth, so if we receive a revelation of truth which conflicts with what we understand the scripture to say we need to dig in to the whole of scripture to understand how we have misunderstood it and how they actually support our new revelation.At least it is my belief that scriptures are our safeguard and while misinterpreted or misunderstood they are the method provided by God to prevent us from wandering into error as long as we are seeking truth.
My opinion – Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ May 20 2011,12:23) Quote (shimmer @ May 19 2011,16:17) Even scripture must be tested with what is revealed to our hearts. I have had the spirit show me that something was not right in scripture and when I looked into it, it was mistranslated.
We need to trust in God through prayer and ask.
Shimmer,
No argument on love being the greatest thing but just to clarify; scriptures test our revelations of truth, so if we receive a revelation of truth which conflicts with what we understand the scripture to say we need to dig in to the whole of scripture to understand how we have misunderstood it and how they actually support our new revelation.At least it is my belief that scriptures are our safeguard and while misinterpreted or misunderstood they are the method provided by God to prevent us from wandering into error as long as we are seeking truth.
My opinion – Wm
Seekingtruthyou are right ,and well said,if we look at only one scripture it would not reflect the spirit of truth of God ,but the whole scripture is,
but do we are looking and want to know and face those truths that God may present to us ??
discussing on words does not give deep understanding only a good grammar comprehension,this does not save someone from God s wrath or our sins.
it usually becomes a war on words.a non productive action.
this should be look only to improve our knowledge after we have acquired the true spirit of God and our faith is well founded in Christ.
Pierre
My my there are some wise scholars amongst us!
They only know the quality of everything but not it's worth.
Terraricca, you speak wisely on the matter of warring on words – this is so true.
This was a point that Jesus made about certain Greeks who spent all their days debating the minutae of everything in constant debate – hey, isn't that like someone here?
What have I written about this one who, as he begins to lose a point delves into the dire definition of 'a word' hoping to sway and redefine the meaning…!
'Do Spirits have bodies'?
'No'. Jesus said that the Spirit is like the wind. He did not mean for anyone to go delving into the exact nature of WIND and whether 2000 years later man would be able to 'Read' the wind… Or that even the WIND is made up of embodied elements and that there would be a term called 'a body of wind' for who would dare say that Jesus did not know of Storms, Tornadoes, Whirlwinds, etc.?
No, the point was that unlike a SOLID BODY that has to move all it's component parts together … A BODY… The WIND MOVES AS IT IS MOVED BY WHATEVER FORCE IS APPLIED TO IT IN ANY WAY.
from where does it suddenly appear – to where does it disappear – we know not yet at one point it is solid and causes a reaction in the elements of the world.So to is the Spirit.
Can you touch the wind when it is not in your presence?
Can the wind affect you directly when it is not in your presence?What about when it IS in your presence?
How did it gather it's BODY together to impact on you?
Where did that BODY go when it Disappeared again?
What was it's purpose in influencing the elements on and about you?
Who SENT IT and did it achieve it's purpose?
What is THE WIND – is it not a great FORCE acting on the elements in thd physical world.
So too is the Spirit?
Istari
Quote Terraricca, you speak wisely on the matter of warring on words – this is so true. I only quoted what scriptures are saying ,
but if what I have mention and you accepted those words as wisdom why are you not following them ?
you are still stuck on LIKE the wind is LIKE now become reality and so is it now WIND ,I do believe you are stuck on words not the meaning of what Christ was saying and other passage in scriptures.
Pierre
What is the Spirit: is it not THOUGHT, intelligence, an empowering Force, an enabler, an enlivener.
God blew the breathe (Spirit) of life into Adam… Did God blow a Body into Adam?
What is Spirit – give me a use of the term 'Spirit' (My Spirit yearns for truth)
Mikeboll gave a VERY SELECT definition of Spirit from netBible – can anyone else give a definition that is OPEN HONEST AND NONSELECT? please…
Gene says that Spirit is what is in a body – and this is true for those in the physical material world.
So if a Spirit, the quickening, empowering intelligence in a body, is taken out of the body – how is it a body?
Is the gas in a bottle – a bottle?
Is the spirit in a body – a body?
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