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Quote (shimmer @ May 13 2011,16:56) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 14 2011,10:42) So Shimmer, could you do me the solid of actually ANSWERING my question to you? Could you tell me what it is that separates the Being of God from the being of Shimmer?
Mike, sin (seperates us from God).
Theosis is the drawing near to God (you should read up on it)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosis_(Eastern_Orthodox_theology)
Mike, God lives in us.
Hi Shimmer,So then you are devoid of sin? You personally have NO sin at all that separates you from God?
You miss my point……………perhaps on purpose. Let me try another example to drive my point home.
(Note: This is the time when certain people here claim, “I answered Mike's question, but he just doesn't like the answer I gave, so he keeps asking it!” So THOSE PEOPLE need to pay attention that this is a CLARIFYING question, based on the original one, but tweaked in an effort to demonstrate my point more effectively. In other words, IT IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT QUESTION FROM THE FIRST ONE.)
Shimmer, is Jesus God Almighty? If not, then what is it that separates the Being of God Almighty from the being of Jesus?
Your answer of “sin” won't work here, eh?
peace,
mikeShimmer! Scripture says that there are natural bodies, and spiritual bodies. Whats the difference???….
1Cr 15:35 ¶ But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?1Cr 15:36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Cr 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]:
1Cr 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
IMO spirits have spiritual bodies….Peace Irene
Quote (Pastry @ May 14 2011,18:29) Shimmer! Scripture says that there are natural bodies, and spiritual bodies. Whats the difference???….
1Cr 15:35 ¶ But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?1Cr 15:36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Cr 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]:
1Cr 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
IMO spirits have spiritual bodies….Peace Irene
hi Irenethis is not a opinion it is a fact that spirits have a body or form,just like anything that was created ,
No body or form it does not exist was never created
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 14 2011,12:19) Hi Shimmer, So then you are devoid of sin? You personally have NO sin at all that separates you from God?
You miss my point……………perhaps on purpose. Let me try another example to drive my point home.
(Note: This is the time when certain people here claim, “I answered Mike's question, but he just doesn't like the answer I gave, so he keeps asking it!” So THOSE PEOPLE need to pay attention that this is a CLARIFYING question, based on the original one, but tweaked in an effort to demonstrate my point more effectively. In other words, IT IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT QUESTION FROM THE FIRST ONE.)
Shimmer, is Jesus God Almighty? If not, then what is it that separates the Being of God Almighty from the being of Jesus?
Your answer of “sin” won't work here, eh?
peace,
mike
Mike, Jesus said “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our abode with him.” and “Don't you know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have from God? You are not your own” and “If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for God's temple is holy, which you are” and “Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.”Sin is what seperates us from God.
In Isaiah it says “Your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.” But then “God commends his own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us”. and “For him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; so that in him we might become the righteousness of God”. and “Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring you to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit”.
Quote Shimmer, is Jesus God Almighty? If not, then what is it that separates the Being of God Almighty from the being of Jesus? Well I dont know what seperates Jesus from God Almighty. And Jesus said, “That they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us.” and “Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me.” and again, “He who keeps his commandments remains in him, and he in him. By this we know that he remains in us, by the Spirit which he gave us.” and again, “In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.”
Quote (Pastry @ May 14 2011,12:29) Shimmer! Scripture says that there are natural bodies, and spiritual bodies. Whats the difference???….
1Cr 15:35 ¶ But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?1Cr 15:36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Cr 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]:
1Cr 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
IMO spirits have spiritual bodies….Peace Irene
Irene, I think that Istari answered that pretty well in posts further back. The only spiritual body that we know of that has been risen from the dead is Jesus's.Quote (shimmer @ May 13 2011,20:00) Well I dont know what seperates Jesus from God Almighty.
Hi Shimmer,Good post and great use of scriptures!
I respect your answer of “I don't know”, and I will not push you for anything else because it is an acceptable answer.
I hope by this answer that you can at least see where I'm coming from. I KNOW that Jesus is not the Being of God Almighty, but His Son………….so I also “know” that there must be something that separates him FROM the being of God Almighty – making them two individual beings instead of one combined being.
This has been my stand from the beginning of this thread – that there MUST be something that separates two individual beings from each other, or they would be one being.
You don't have to agree, but I think you now at least fully understand what I've been trying to say all this time.
peace,
mikeQuote (shimmer @ May 13 2011,20:02) The only spiritual body that we know of that has been risen from the dead is Jesus's.
Hi Shimmer,1 Corinthians 15:48 American Standard Version
As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.Young's Literal Translation
as is the earthy, such are also the earthy; and as is the heavenly, such are also the heavenly;Both of these translations render the Greek words accurately. But what does that scripture mean? I've been posting my understanding that it means: “Whatever body Jesus now has is the same kind of body that all those who exist in heaven also have.” This is MY understanding of that scripture. But look at some of these other versions of that scripture, as copied from the Biblos site you turned me on to:
New Living Translation (©2007)
Earthly people are like the earthly man, and heavenly people are like the heavenly man.GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
The people on earth are like the man who was made from the dust of the earth. The people in heaven are like the man who came from heaven.Bible in Basic English
Those who are of the earth are like the man who was from the earth: and those who are of heaven are like the one from heaven.Weymouth New Testament
What the earthy one is, that also are those who are earthy; and what the heavenly One is, that also are those who are heavenly.Those translations are how I understand the scripture. I understand it to be saying that people who live in heaven have the same kind of spiritual body that Jesus now has.
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ May 14 2011,20:58) Quote (shimmer @ May 13 2011,20:02) The only spiritual body that we know of that has been risen from the dead is Jesus's.
Hi Shimmer,1 Corinthians 15:48 American Standard Version
As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.Young's Literal Translation
as is the earthy, such are also the earthy; and as is the heavenly, such are also the heavenly;Both of these translations render the Greek words accurately. But what does that scripture mean? I've been posting my understanding that it means: “Whatever body Jesus now has is the same kind of body that all those who exist in heaven also have.” This is MY understanding of that scripture. But look at some of these other versions of that scripture, as copied from the Biblos site you turned me on to:
New Living Translation (©2007)
Earthly people are like the earthly man, and heavenly people are like the heavenly man.GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
The people on earth are like the man who was made from the dust of the earth. The people in heaven are like the man who came from heaven.Bible in Basic English
Those who are of the earth are like the man who was from the earth: and those who are of heaven are like the one from heaven.Weymouth New Testament
What the earthy one is, that also are those who are earthy; and what the heavenly One is, that also are those who are heavenly.Those translations are how I understand the scripture. I understand it to be saying that people who live in heaven have the same kind of spiritual body that Jesus now has.
peace,
mike
Mikethis is a very good quote ;1 Cor 15;48 is very different in version.
Pierre
And once again those who lack wisdom and understanding ignore wisdom and understanding.
JESUS CHRIST is the ONLY PERSON who has a SPIRITUAL BODY.
To obtain a Spiritual Body one must first DIE from the NATURAL BODY…
and this is what Jesus did.So to all: please explain how the HEAVENLY Angels also have SPIRITUAL BODIES?
Irene, why did you ignore this question? Even Shimmer reminded you of this yet you do not answer it.
To all: 1 Corinthians 15:44 says, 'It is sown a natural body, it is raised a Spiritual Body'.
Please explain this verse in your own 'mind language'.What BODY was Jesus 'sown' in?
What BODY was Jesus 'Raised' in?Was the BODY Jesus was raised in the same PHYSICAL FLESH body he died in.
'For God did not will to see his BODY suffer CORRUPTION' …. but Glorified it.Vs 43: It is sown in Dishonour (Sin), it is raised in Glory (Sinless)
Vs 42: THE BODY…is sown in Corruption (subject to decay due to sin), IT is raised in Incorruption (Not subject to decay as it is Sinless…)
Note: Jesus TOOK ON THE SIN OF ALL MANKIND hence his body became subject to death and decay (vs 43/44)Vs 39: 'All flesh (BODY) is not the same flesh (BODY)'
There is the Corruptible Flesh – and there is the Incorruptible Flesh.The Corruptible flesh has a sinful nature (The Natural Body)
The Incorruptible flesh has no sinful nature (Spiritual Body)Vs 39 shows earthly corrupt bodies that DECAY and DIE.
Vs 40 shows celestial bodies that do not DECAY nor DIE.
Please do not say that Stars die – this is not the essence of the meaning – too much analysis brings on paralysis! Just take things at their basic understanding – as far as the people understood, the Stars and Planets were CONSTANT and even today the SAME CELESTIAL SKY is as it was then…!)So what Paul is saying is very simple:
There is the corruptible flesh – and there is the incorruptible flesh.And Spirit is NOT flesh.
In fact these verses have NOTHING TO DO WITH Spirit Creatures AT ALL.
Why? If it were then Angels also have FLESH AND BONE BODIES IN HEAVEN…(Spirit Bodies)
So… What is it that JESUS should be raised in a GLORIFIED SPIRIT BODY (note: SPIRIT) if even theVs 47: says that the Natural is First – then the Spiritual…
So, it seems, Mike and Irene, that By your reckoning, Angels were first DEAD Flesh and Bone persons who died and were reborn as SPIRITUAL (SPIRIT?) BODIES!!!
So Angels – simple messengers of God – also have GLORIFIED SPIRIT BODIES?And this last statement underlines the fundamental lack of understanding in this thread:
One person INVENTED the term SPIRIT BODY… where no such term exists.
This has fueled the minds of those who simply want to say 'We don't like Istari so we WILL PROVE HIM WRONG!'
– Sad people – it is your own self you are proving false.
– The Scripture says 'Spiritual Body' – not 'Spirit Body'.1 Corinthians 15: ~ speaks of the RAISING OF THE DEAD.
What BODY will the dead be raised in seeing that their natural body will have decayed.
Check and see that Paul is not speaking ONLY to the Apostles but to all persons in Corinth so how can it be said that they will all be 'SPIRIT bodied' – no 'SPIRITUALLY BODIED'.Will the 'they' not be living on the earth in Paradise (Those who survive from the second resurrection). What use is a SPIRIT BODY in the physical flesh world?
And Mike,
Your desire to believe that SPIRITS need separation one from another is the main failing in your ability to See In The Spirit.You are thinking of Spirit like it is Flesh – and just because you don't like me this increase your desire to fail to see this just to try and prove me wrong – bad move fella – pride is your downfall here!
In fact, 1 Corinthians 15 has got you twisted in mind in an attempt to reinforce your desire.
One day you will get a shock – I hope your heart is strong because it will be quite a shock.You will suddenly realise what has been confounding you all this time.
You will be so embarrassed you will stay off the forum for some time for your shame.Here it is again: SPIRIT is IMMATERIAL – SPIRIT is FORMLESS – SPIRIT is EVERYWHERE.
Your lacking: You read of Angels in Physical form (Read that again – why the need to say 'physical'?) as Man.
Why are they in Physicsl form as man: simple: so WE can relate to them – what if they appeared as a flame of fire or a BODY of water or a leaf on a tree- tell someone else that a Flame or some water or a leaf …spoke to you!!
See, Mike, the Spirit (The messenging Angel) can take WHATEVER FORM it likes – it can fill any VESSEL it deems necessary – it is Power – and can harness itself to any physical entity it likes (Allowed).How many Spirits can stand on the head of a pin? Billions.
Why? Spirits OCCUPY NO SPACE therefore there can be as many as you like.
How many BODIES can stand on the head of a pin?
Mike, however infinitely small size those bodies are they still have a size and occupy space therefore there is a finite number (Infinite small size * Area of head of pin = number of bodies)When you ask Shimmer what separates God Almighty from Jesus she rightly answered you from a Spiritual perspective. What separates us from God? Sin.
Without Sin we are IN GOD and God is IN Us.
So, SPIRITUALLY speaking – NOTHING SEPARATES GOD ALMIGHTY FROM JESUS – they are ONE…in each other.
But Mike, this is NOT what you want to hear is it? You don't want to hear that in the SPIRIT there is no separation one from the other…Your are speaking of the PERSONALITY of the individual – the INDIVIDUAL PERSONS.
Mike, think of Atoms… Helium, hydrogen, mercury, oxygen, carbon, nitrogen….
Are they not EVERYWHERE in the air around us?
Yet as they are they are largely inert.
When we bring them individually together we create a specific Body of gas that is then used for explicit purposes: Hydrogen and Oxygen for water; Carbon and oxygen for building fleshly life, Nitrogen for plants and decay of the flesh, etc.
Each has it's own 'personality'/nature but exists separately in and among all the rest and is everywhere.
Mike, this is an earthly fleshly physical example/analogy so don't say 'Atoms are bodies' I use it as you cannot see in the Spirit that Spirit is not a BODY BUT intelligent POWER AND FORCE – like THOUGHT!
my website has the term: 'Powered by Thought' – it was built using the Spirit of my thought – it is maintained by the Spirit of my Thought, it is enhanced by the spirit of my thought.How many Spirits do I have at my disposal?
And my Angels are the words in the information that I publish on the site – their power is as much as I put into them – their impact is their pursuation of the target audience.
(Ps – I forgot to say in earlier post – Spirits/Bodies on head of pin – AT THE SAME TIME – that just fir the pedantics!)
What is the difference between:
1) Heavenly
2) Heaven
What is the definition of 1) and 2)?What is a HEAVENLY MAN? Contextually from 1 Corinthians 15: is this not a term for 'Glorified Person' by definition of 'Heavenly'?
Vs 49: …so are those who are HEAVENLY.
Does this read as '…who are of Heaven' or as written '…are Heavenly'?Quote (Istari @ May 14 2011,04:43) To obtain a Spiritual Body one must first DIE from the NATURAL BODY…
and this is what Jesus did.So to all: please explain how the HEAVENLY Angels also have SPIRITUAL BODIES?
That's not how I understand it. Paul is explaining what kind of body the dead HUMAN BEINGS who are raised to heaven will have. Answer: They will be raised to heaven with a body like the people of heaven already have. Hence the wording, “as is the man of heaven, so ARE those of heaven”.The word “ARE” is not the words “WILL BE”. The word “ARE” indidcates that there ARE already those of heaven who have spiritual bodies – just like Jesus, who is referenced as “the man from heaven” here.
Angels were originally created to live in heaven, therefore they already have bodies that are adapted to living in heaven. What Paul is teaching is that the human beings who will later live in heaven will have their bodies transformed into glorious new bodies like Jesus and all who already live in heaven now have. (1 Cor 15:48, Phil 3:21)
This version that I quoted is how I understand it:
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
The people on earth are like the man who was made from the dust of the earth. The people in heaven are like the man who came from heaven.I think it's odd to claim that out of all of the heavenly beings in existence, Jesus is the only SPIRIT floating around in heaven who has a body. Is Jesus somehow less of a spirit being than the others in heaven he rules over? Is Jesus somehow less of a spirit being than the God who rules over him? The God that he is the exact representation of and image of?
It just strikes me as odd that Jesus is the only one in heaven encumbered by a body – as if his subordinate angels are somehow more “limitless” and “free” than their own ruler.
Quote (Istari @ May 14 2011,22:49) What is the difference between:
1) Heavenly
2) Heaven
What is the definition of 1) and 2)?What is a HEAVENLY MAN? Contextually from 1 Corinthians 15: is this not a term for 'Glorified Person' by definition of 'Heavenly'?
Vs 49: …so are those who are HEAVENLY.
Does this read as '…who are of Heaven' or as written '…are Heavenly'?
Istari, good question's….. When Angels came down to earth, and married woman. did they have a body? They are from heaven, never been from the earth, so they are Heavenly….1Cr 15:48 As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly.
1Cr 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Cr 15:50 ¶ Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
These Scriptures say a lot. First it shows that all will die and all will rise again, and will see the heavenly….
Those that are in heaven, are the heavenly. Right now we have the firstborn from the death, Jesus and the Angels. I stand on the fact to identify the Angels they have some kind of Form…. You don't have to believe that, but I do…. as far as Almighty God goes, He does have form
Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:Jesus too was in the form of God before He became a man…
Peace Irene
Quote (shimmer @ May 14 2011,13:00) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 14 2011,12:19) Hi Shimmer, So then you are devoid of sin? You personally have NO sin at all that separates you from God?
You miss my point……………perhaps on purpose. Let me try another example to drive my point home.
(Note: This is the time when certain people here claim, “I answered Mike's question, but he just doesn't like the answer I gave, so he keeps asking it!” So THOSE PEOPLE need to pay attention that this is a CLARIFYING question, based on the original one, but tweaked in an effort to demonstrate my point more effectively. In other words, IT IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT QUESTION FROM THE FIRST ONE.)
Shimmer, is Jesus God Almighty? If not, then what is it that separates the Being of God Almighty from the being of Jesus?
Your answer of “sin” won't work here, eh?
peace,
mike
Mike, Jesus said “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our abode with him.” and “Don't you know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have from God? You are not your own” and “If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for God's temple is holy, which you are” and “Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.”Sin is what seperates us from God.
In Isaiah it says “Your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.” But then “God commends his own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us”. and “For him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; so that in him we might become the righteousness of God”. and “Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring you to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit”.
Quote Shimmer, is Jesus God Almighty? If not, then what is it that separates the Being of God Almighty from the being of Jesus? Well I dont know what seperates Jesus from God Almighty. And Jesus said, “That they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us.” and “Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me.” and again, “He who keeps his commandments remains in him, and he in him. By this we know that he remains in us, by the Spirit which he gave us.” and again, “In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.”
Shimmer……….Good Answer to Mikes post , but what good did it do Mike still insists you are saying “you don't Know”, that dear sister is the mentality we are all dealing with here. Even when a answer a clear and exact answer is given it is downplayed as if no answer was given. This is Mikes MO as has been seen many times in the past here. Please don't get discouraged their continual ignorance and personal insults of what is posted.Terricca's own word would far better more accurately apply to himself , the “pearls before swines thing”, but again not one response from our so called monitor regarding those insulting remarks as he also does the same IMO> But let one of us do that and we are given tiles or kicked off or our posting rights removed and classified as a non believer, As in the Case of brother Adam.
Why do you have to return the insults Gene…. is it so important for you to do that?
Brother Adam did not believe in Jesus, have you conveniently forgotten that???
Peace IreneQuote (Istari @ May 14 2011,05:49) Vs 49: …so are those who are HEAVENLY.
Does this read as '…who are of Heaven' or as written '…are Heavenly'?
It means the same thing. Here is the definition of the word:
Word Origin
from epi and ouranos
Definition
of heaven
From HereAnd here is a good example:
John 3:12 NIV
I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?John 3:12 BBE ©
If you have no belief when my words are about the things of earth, how will you have belief if my words are about the things of heaven?By saying “heavenly”, you are saying “of heaven”, as shown by these two different translations of the same word. Just like “earthly” means “of earth”.
So yes, it is saying “as is the heavenly man, so are those OF HEAVEN”.
Quote (Pastry @ May 14 2011,08:31) Why do you have to return the insults Gene…. is it so important for you to do that? Brother Adam did not believe in Jesus, have you conveniently forgotten that???
Peace Irene
Hi Irene,What do you mean by “RETURN the insults”? I didn't insult Shimmer.
What Gene can't see is that Shimmer's answer is crucial to the point I've been making in this thread since day one. She said, “Well I dont know what seperates Jesus from God Almighty.”
That is an acknowledgement that there IS something that separates the Being of God from the being of Jesus, and she just doesn't know what that something would be. But anything that separates one thing from another thing can rightly be called a body.
Even a cloud in the sky has a body that separates what IS the cloud from what is blue sky.
Gene is just being Gene. His post wasn't worthy of a response from me.
mike
Quote (Istari @ May 14 2011,21:43) To all: 1 Corinthians 15:44 says, 'It is sown a natural body, it is raised a Spiritual Body'.
Please explain this verse in your own 'mind language'.What BODY was Jesus 'sown' in?
What BODY was Jesus 'Raised' in?Was the BODY Jesus was raised in the same PHYSICAL FLESH body he died in.
'For God did not will to see his BODY suffer CORRUPTION' …. but Glorified it.
JA……That is the point they fail to understand what the it was in Paul's explanation . The it was the body that was sown in weakness as subject to corruption. The spirit was not it returned to him who gave it. All the it's in that explanation of Paul is referring to the body As the sentence structure plainly shows. IMOPeace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Quote (Istari @ May 14 2011,05:37) Here it is again: SPIRIT is IMMATERIAL – SPIRIT is FORMLESS – SPIRIT is EVERYWHERE.
I don't believe that something is “immaterial” just because human beings have not yet detected the material it is comprised of.I also know that you can't scripturally defend your claim that “SPIRIT is EVERYWHERE”. Here's a SCRIPTURAL example that proves you wrong:
Job 1:6-7
6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it.”If spirits are “everywhere”, then there was no need for them to COME to present themselves BEFORE YHWH, because they would always be before YHWH at all times. And a being who is “everywhere all the time” cannot possibly COME FROM anywhere or GO TO anywhere, because he already would be EVERYWHERE.
God would have never said, “Where have you come FROM?”, because Satan would have already been in the presence of God the whole time.
Satan would not have been able to be “roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it”, because he would have been been everywhere all the time, and therefore “going back and forth” would have no meaning.
Istari, your reasoning is flawed – according to the scriptures themselves.
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