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Ha ha … Wispring,
You are doing what many others do here – you ate Selecting your own idea of what you think I am saying…Let me ask again: What is the [physical] form of Water? None, it takes the shape of whatever form it is contained in. It's CONTAINER gives it it's [physical] form.
Wispring, you have taken a SPECIFIC instance of water globules in Space (Can I say that it is inside an enclosed space capsule…). If the water was in OPEN space would it not just evaporate into nothingness?
As for WIND, I have no idea what it is you are trying to prove. Can you really cage the wind – in a skin, a body?
And potential…why are we discussing that?
Potential Energy: is that not called Voltage in Electric Circuits; Weight in physical objects; 'Head' in liquid (Head of water in a dam…!) a Cistern for a flush toilet (WC)…
In short, there is nothing you have said that changes or devalues what I said.
Moreover, using earthly/Flesh analogies for Spiritual matters always needs open-minded thinking.
The Wind or Water is NOT Spirit – it was just used as the nearest equivalent – did not Jesus himself say, 'The Wind bloweth where it will and no one knoweth where it comes from nor where it goeth'
Yes, you can tell Jesus that we can 'see' the wind now – but be it known that Jesus was not giving you a scientific analysis – he was anologysing the wind with the Spirit… a spirit COMES and GOES and no Normal human knows from or to where because like FLATLANDER MAN , they cannot look up, down nor behind them – they cannot see the Spirit dematerialise to ascend to heaven nor mayerialise down to earth – for a Body ('as the disciples saw jesus has') cannot enter heaven!Wispring, you appear to be new here. I hope we can maintain positive relations and with honest well thought out godly responses we can lock down truth – at least between ourselves and hopefully others will tag along…!
Can you answer any of the questions I asked – you do not need to – just interested!Hi Istari,
My friend, I am as open-minded as they come. I can agree that spirits are an energy form. In order for an energy-form to exist in any given medium it must have a quality to it that differentiates it from the medium it exists in, otherwise, it would be one with the medium thereby losing it's own cohesiveness and have no discernable identity or would dissolve to chaos having no order. This “skin” could be powered by God and therefore be infinitely transmutable and able to to do all the things you express. None the less, it would have a type of form.With Love and Respect,
WispringHi Istari,
The numer of angels that can dance on a pin tip is an infinite number. The math that expresses this concept is, you take 1 and divide by 2. You can repeat the process forever and never reach zero.With Love and Respect,
WispringWispring,
Brother, you confuse FORM with substance… Moreover, there is too much leaning on the earthly example used to illustrate SPIRIT.Do you think Jesus did not know that someone would say 'Hey, Jesus, I can 'see' the wind and know from whence it comes and whence it goes using my WindDetector machine'?
Of course, even as Mikeboll said (I repeat) that man will be able to detect any and all material matter no matter how currently INVISIBLE at present.My man, yes… Material matter… This is the limit of Science… You can't detect Spirits with Science… You can't see Angels with a spectrometer or a reverse Hubble spyglass, inferometer, LHC, or anything else manmade.
Ok, let's rap this up…
Spirits DO NOT HAVE BODIES but they do have a FORM.
The Form of a Spirit is … SPIRIT…
Spirit: (Noun) A normally invisible being residing in Heaven ( or Heavenly heavens)
Spirit: (Form) immaterial entityGod is a Spirit
The form of God is Spirit
The Form of Jesus is Spirit (Jesus is in the Form of God. This was said to enlighten those spoken to by the Apostles who did not know this – we do now – by hindsight)
Angels are Spirits (Messenging Spirits)
Angels are in the Form of Spirit as are Jesus and God …and the Holy Spirit of course…
Pure Energy – is IMMATERIAL…
Material matter – is created from compressed EnergyEnergy is akin to Spirit – it is Everywhere all the time in one form or another
Angels are everywhere all the time – in one form or anotherOh, the head of a pin… Wrong answer… Mike wouldn't answer this – wonder why?:
Since Angel/Spirits are immaterial, they take up NO SPACE AT ALL… therefore the number of Angels is Infinite!!!
Mike wouldn't answer because to do so would be to admit that they do not have bodies that require a finite space even if they were the tiniest speck conceivable and therefore there he would have to say there was a FINITE NUMBER that could be expressed…
And then an Angel could appear as big as a mountain (How many pins could stand on the head of that Angel??)Mike was worrying that if Angels don't have bounding Borders (Skin) they would blend into each other… Mike, stop worrying… They don't have bodies so there is nothing to blend into each other…
Imagine a free intelligence floating in an energy pool. Whenever something needs doing that intelligence that is everywhere at the same time can gather nearby energy and create material matter to form a body in the form (Sorry!) of a human… That body clothed to resemble contemporary man is in the finest robes of glowing quality (The Angel would created a 'perfect suit' – what else! In Biblical times it would be an all White shimmering robe)Ok, here is a teaser…Wispring, you appear to be a person of worthy knowledge…
Can an Angel create a body… That resembles a human being and animate it?Wispring, can Man, now, create animatrons, Androids, Robots, Avatars, etc., that resemble human beings…
Yes… so why not Angels 'Who are greater in power'…?Wispring,
Sorry, just reread your last post.Yes, infinite – I meant the explanation was wrong – it's got nothing to do with the type of Maths you mention but, like I said, it's infinite because there is no space required for an immaterial Spirit…
Hi Istari,
Quote Imagine a free intelligence floating in an energy pool. Whenever something needs doing that intelligence that is everywhere at the same time can gather nearby energy and create material matter to form a body in the form (Sorry!) of a human… That body clothed to resemble contemporary man is in the finest robes of glowing quality (The Angel would created a 'perfect suit' – what else! In Biblical times it would be an all White shimmering robe)
Imagine God's Spirit(intelligence and energy) pervading all universes and all dimensions. Whenever God decides the presence of an angel is needed one is localised via a chaos theory and/or law of attraction type process. The pooling together of God's Spirit(energy/intelligence) creates the angel/messenger(energy/intelligence) at any given point in the entire structure of all realities to perform it's duty/function. The angel, therefore, exists only in the mind(spirit) of God until and unless otherwise needed. Thereby going from a logos(idea) of God to manifestation of God's will on God's command. Doing all the things angels do within a framework that has cohesive internal logic that is easy to understand.With Love and Respect,
WispringQuote (Wispring @ April 07 2011,06:43) Imagine God's Spirit(intelligence and energy) pervading all universes and all dimensions. Whenever God decides the presence of an angel is needed one is localised via a chaos theory and/or law of attraction type process. With Love and Respect,
Wispring
(Ressurecting Nick)
God is unknowable, you teach from mans point view but not by revelation.SF,
It is simply metaphysical conversation. Not “knowing” the mind of God. Go judge someone else please.With Love and Respect,
WispringWispring,
You are getting closer to the metaphysical glory…One thing… The Spirits are not 'In the mind of God'.
Angels/Spirits are REAL… Independent entities with power but dependent by direction from God.
The gathering together of energies is the creation of a body (Compressed Energy = Material matter)
The Spirits in the 'Higher Heavens' can go anywhere they are directed to go in whatever form (Human flesh or 'simmering outline' or an earth power: Wind, fire, water…)
Spirits demons are limited hence they cannot directly affect humans nor their surroundings but can influence in mind the thoughts of man. You can INVITE them into yourself but they cannot invade otherwise – this is why, you may or may not know, I vehemently suggested that we encourage Kerwin from pursuing his thoughts on Demons, Ghosts and Phantasms – dwelling on evil draws evil to you – and that is Real….Anyway, seeing that we have near agreement, do you finally agree to lock this thread … Or leave it open for others… I do believe that most here do not actually understand in the slightest the things of the Spirit pertaining to 'Bodies or not bodies' and most contributions are completely based on earthly 'real flesh' thinking…
E.g., Flesh… In New Testament Scriptural terms, is anything that is MATERIAL MATTER… even Planets, seas, air, etc. In the Old Testament this was called DUST…
But, of course, our friends here only think of FLESH as MEAT as on a human or animal body.However, it is also weird to see that they think of Heaven like a place on Earth – in the Sky!
That God sits on a THRONE, a physical Chair, in Heaven and the Angels STAND around (What are they standing on?) and they wear clothes and carry weapons and there are chariots and …and and they sit around a table to convene meetings…(Hmmm … Chair, Table…. Carpenter!!)
Amazing –And they are looking DOWN from heaven onto us through the clouds… Very Mythological but I guess they don't realise how much they have been influenced by irresponsible but genius artist and creative doctrine…
E.g, Satan will torture wicked ones in a hot firey hell … Yeah, right!!
So God had given the wicked Serpent the pleasure of torturing those he misled… And notice that it is the flesh bodies of them that is tortured… Really? I thought we would be dead? Do the dead feel pain? And how many times can you pull someone's arms off or boil them in hot oil or make them sit on molten gold for being avaricious?(Hmm… The man with the golden bum!!)Quote (Istari @ April 08 2011,03:28) However, it is also weird to see that they think of Heaven like a place on Earth – in the Sky!
That God sits on a THRONE, a physical Chair, in Heaven and the Angels STAND around (What are they standing on?) and they wear clothes and carry weapons and there are chariots and …and and they sit around a table to convene meetings…(Hmmm … Chair, Table…. Carpenter!!)
Amazing –And they are looking DOWN from heaven onto us through the clouds… Very Mythological but I guess they don't realise how much they have been influenced by irresponsible but genius artist and creative doctrine…
E.g, Satan will torture wicked ones in a hot firey hell … Yeah, right!!
So God had given the wicked Serpent the pleasure of torturing those he misled… And notice that it is the flesh bodies of them that is tortured… Really? I thought we would be dead? Do the dead feel pain? And how many times can you pull someone's arms off or boil them in hot oil or make them sit on molten gold for being avaricious?(Hmm… The man with the golden bum!!)
That was so funny.And that is so true.
Goodnight J.
Hi Istari,
Since this is all theological speculation sure close the thread.
With Love and Respect,
WispringYou guys are to funny:D
God has a form….YEH he sits on a throne….His Spirit is in all of us….What did Moses see? Or was it Jesus that He seen? An old man with a white beard and white hair?…..Then Moses hair became white too. I think this is all speculation at best….I think we all have to wait and see what God and Jesus looks like, if we are the lucky ones to become a Spirit Being….
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Baker @ April 08 2011,03:25) You guys are to funny:D God has a form….YEH he sits on a throne….His Spirit is in all of us….What did Moses see? Or was it Jesus that He seen? An old man with a white beard and white hair?…..Then Moses hair became white too. I think this is all speculation at best….I think we all have to wait and see what God and Jesus looks like, if we are the lucky ones to become a Spirit Being….
Peace and Love Irene
Mosses saw an angel as the law came through angels.Acts 7:53
you who have received the law that was given through angels but have not obeyed it.”
and
Galatians 3:19
Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator.
Note: Both scriptures from NIV, c. 2011
To All………..Again, Spirits do not have bodies they are what is in bodies. Just that simple. “If the spirit of him that raised Jesus (the CHRISTOS) from the dead dwell in you IT shall also quicken (bring to life), you mortal or (dead) bodies”.
peace and love top you all………………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 09 2011,08:18) To All………..Again, Spirits do not have bodies they are what is in bodies. Just that simple. “If the spirit of him that raised Jesus (the CHRISTOS) from the dead dwell in you IT shall also quicken (bring to life), you mortal or (dead) bodies”. peace and love top you all………………………………………gene
Hi Gene,The bold letters are WAY easier to read then the way you were doing it with caps. Please stick to this new way of doing it. It will make it easier for all of us to understand what point you're making.
mike
I'm not about to get sucked back into this thread. I only commented to say something positive to you. I will think twice before doing that again.
MIke……..I did take your commit in a positive way, i did not realize the thread was over though. I really don't see how it could be over when no concisions were made right? But it is OK with Me if no one wants to commit on it any longer. I still believe Spirits are not bodies but is what is in bodies. IMO
peace and love………………………………..gene
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