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Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 22 2010,08:31) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 22 2010,09:40) Shimmer …………I assure you Angels Have bodies and GOD put the Spirits in the Just as we have Bodies and GOD adds Spirits into us. No one can exist outside of a Body as a living being except God Him or IT Self. Peopl confuse where it say God creates His angels Spirits and sends them form to minister, think that it is talking about GOD creating Angel-spirits and sending those spirits forth as bodiless beings. God give everything a (BODY) Just as HE Pleases, so every thin does have a Body as to what type it is that is a different thing. Shimmer go read the account of Elijah where the angels were fighting fro Israel and when Elighia ask God to open the Lads eyes to see them he definitely saw them they did have bodies. There exists spectrum's of light we can not see with our Physical bodies unless God opens our eyes to them, but never the less they do exist. JA is wrong by saying Angels created their Own Bodies that simply is not true they can no more create there own bodies then we can. There is ONLY ONE CREATOR and that is GOD the FATHER, He along is the CREATOR of (ALL) Things IN heaven and Earth. IMO peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Thanks Gene, I agree. Angels have to have some type of body, its just we cant see them with our own eyes. Though it says spirits dont have flesh and bones, they still have shape and form. All has been created by God, all beings have been given a body of some type or form, as it says in scripture, I agree Gene.
Shimmer……..You are correct SPIRIT does not have any kind of Body, as Jesus said. Because Spirit is (INTELLECT) that lives (IN) bodies of all kinds it (spirit) is what animates all life and is from GOD, without Spirit there would be NO Life in any matter what so ever. A big Problem is most think Spirit is some sort of Being , not realizing Spirit is what is (IN) Beings. A Soul is a Body with Spirit (IN) it, that is what makes up a living Soul. Separate those two thing and the Person no longer exists as a being. When a Man dies His thoughts Parish , another words he no longer exists as a living Soul, that is why it is crucial we attain to a resurrection as Jesus did in order to continue to live. Had God left Jesus in the Grave he still would not be existing he would be gone for ever. But God did not allow His body to corrupt in the grave he resurected it and add His spirit back into it and Jesus became a living Soul again. We all also must attain to a resurrection also in order for us to live again after we die. We can not exist without a body neither can Jesus. IMOpeace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 22 2010,10:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 22 2010,09:33) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 22 2010,07:55) You say we have not anwered your (THROUGH CHRIST ) Question when in fact it has be answred many times by me and Martian and JA,
I'm sorry Gene,I didn't hear you……….where is the post where JA answered my purple question again?
mike
Mike………….Come now you have accused me and Martian and JA of not answering you questions and I know i and Martian and JA Have many times. Again you using the diversion tactic you are so good at to divert from the truth of what is said in response to you just as you are doing here. You need to go back and reread them you may be surprised at how many many times you were answered. IMOpeace and love……………………………..gene
I still can't hear you Gene. Where's the link?JA:
Quote is that noone her, except Kerwin,… on this point…can understand Dimensions…what did you do in School? Did you not learn anything other than basic math to infant grade….then why poopooh another who has a greater understanding..
Did you hear that Gene and Shimmer? Translation: Shimmer, Gene and Mike! You guys are way less intelligent than I am, so just shut up and listen to the one who knows more. How dare you question my great intelligence!
JA:
Quote Yes, something visible. The most obvious form is that of Man.
How do you know they don't always look very similar to us……….but in a different DIMENSION?JA:
Quote it would be perceptable that they were not human by their demeaner but many would not care to test their judgement.
Scripture?
JA:Quote An Angel from God would be righteous in it's actions…it only does that which it is sent to do, so it would be determined only to carry out it's task,
You mean like Satan? Was he carrying out God's task when he tempted Eve? Why do you think angels don't also have free will to either obey God or not? After all, a third of them chose to go against their God and join Satan, right?
JA:Quote engage in idle worldly chitterchat as a normal human stranger would.
Scripture?
JA:Quote Sngels arereluctant to give their name for fear the human may try to worship them, or glorify them
So worshipping Michael and Gabriel is not an issue? Scripture tells of ONE time an angel refused to give his name. On the other hand, there are TWO angels who we DO know the names of.
JA:Quote Angels can become fully humanoid in human clothing, or arrayed in white, and with or without wings.
Again, how do you know that the body they are in when humans saw them is not their everyday body? They could just have the option of being visible to us or not. You know………the option of stepping “into our dimension” or not.JA:
Quote Gene has some weird 'Mikeboll' idea that invisible Angels have a body…this is ridiculous seeing they exist in higher heavens where Jesus plainly says that flesh and blood cannot exist.
Yes, stupid Mike, Gene and Shimmer. I can't speak for Gene and Shimmer, bu I choose to believe what Paul says in 1 Cor 15 over what JA says. Where does Jesus imply that angels ONLY exist in “higher heavens”? And where does it say that a body MUST consist of flesh and blood?JA:
Quote ''What is the value of 'pi'?''
2.14? It's been a while since I've needed that information.JA, can you show me which part of your post was based on scriptural evidence?
mike
Mike……….But that again is your problem you never did hear me or anyone else for that matter. IMO
peace and love…………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 22 2010,11:34) Mike……….But that again is your problem you never did hear me or anyone else for that matter. IMO peace and love…………………………….gene
I'm still waiting for the link Gene.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 22 2010,12:03) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 22 2010,08:09) And JA, you said to Mike, Quote Funny how the Nephilim looked liked humans but more powerful and big, giant…the poor women, did they survive the birth, or did the Nephilim 'burst out of the womb', 'Alien, …the movie…, style'
In Korea, many women are 'tiny'. When the Americans went over, they litterally killed many women in childbirth because thier union with the korean women resulted in babies too big to come out naturally.
See what happens with bad translations…theres no mention of the word Giant/Giants at all, in regards to Nephilum.
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword….nend=73Only..
Genesis 6
The fallen ones were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when sons of God come in unto daughters of men, and they have borne to them — they are the heroes, who, from of old, are the men of name.No mention of Giants, not that I can find, though people say that, I cant find it in scripture that they were Giants at all.
Hi Shimmer,Numbers 13:31-33 NIV
31 But the men who had gone up with him said, “We can’t attack those people; they are stronger than we are.” 32 And they spread among the Israelites a bad report about the land they had explored. They said, “The land we explored devours those living in it. All the people we saw there are of great size. 33 We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them.”mike
Mike,The word in your Bible “Men of great size”…What bible is that ? Oh NIV…Few of the others say that, most say 'Stature” Giant still isnt mentioned though people seem to assume it means Giant……. .
“And the men who have gone up with him said, 'We are not able to go up against the people, for it is stronger than we;' and they bring out an evil account of the land which they have spied unto the sons of Israel, saying, 'The land into which we passed over to spy it, is a land eating up its inhabitants; and all the people whom we saw in its midst are men of stature; and there we saw the Nephilim, sons of Anak, of the Nephilim; and we are in our own eyes as grasshoppers; and so we were in their eyes.”
Stature.
1. the height of something, esp a person or animal when standing
2. the degree of development of a person: the stature of a champion
3. intellectual or moral greatness: a man of statureWhich one is it ?
Also it could be talking about two different things here, it says …”All the people whom we saw in it's midst are men of stature; AND there we saw Nephilim,…..”.The point is, people imagine these Nephilum arent here today, because there are no huge groups of Giants walking around. However, it depends what the word stature means. As were the days of Noah so shall it be, who knows ?
Add to that the verse in Genesis 6,
“The fallen ones were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when sons of God come in unto daughters of men, and they have borne to them — they are the heroes, who, from of old, are the men of name.”
Stature to me would be…
2. the degree of development of a person: the stature of a champion
3. intellectual or moral greatness: a man of statureI say no more
Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 22 2010,12:48) The point is, people imagine these Nephilum arent here today, because there are no huge groups of Giants walking around. However, it depends what the word stature means. As were the days of Noah so shall it be, who knows ?
Hi Shimmer,You are right. I checked with NETNotes (cringe JA, cringe) and while the original Hebrew only says “stature”, most translations add “large” or “great” before it.
I think they get that from the following verse that says they were like grasshoppers compared to these “stature” people.
And what makes you think the Nephilim of today would have to live in one large group? There are definitely some big dudes out there. Maybe NBA players are Nephilims!
peace and love,
mikeQuote (JustAskin @ Nov. 22 2010,12:59) Shimmer, To see Angels, they must 'take the form' of something visible.
Yes, something visible. The most obvious form is that of Man. So they Angels would 'almost' exactly like a human…it would be perceptable that they were not human by their demeaner but many would not care to test their judgement. An Angel from God would be righteous in it's actions…it only does that which it is sent to do, so it would be determined only to carry out it's task, to not dally, would not normally need to eat, drink, toilet, rest, sleep, engage in idle worldly chitterchat as a normal human stranger would. Sngels arereluctant to give their name for fear the human may try to worship them, or glorify them….Angels can become fully humanoid in human clothing, or arrayed in white, and with or without wings.
Gene has some weird 'Mikeboll' idea that invisible Angels have a body…this is ridiculous seeing they exist in higher heavens where Jesus plainly says that flesh and blood cannot exist. The simple reason, and i won't push the point, is that noone her, except Kerwin,… on this point…can understand Dimensions…what did you do in School? Did you not learn anything other than basic math to infant grade….then why poopooh another who has a greater understanding…why would a junior grade student argue with a Geography professor because the junior grade student was taught that the world was as round asa ball and the professor says that's not quite true, it's flatter at the poles..'no' says the student, my school teacher told me it's round just like a ball and i saw a model of it in the classroom and it fell down and it rolled just like a ball….the professor sighs and walks away…asking the student, ''What is the value of 'pi'?''
JA,God creates. Everything created has a form. Angels and Humans seem to be close, so must be similar in many ways. Because man will become as the Angels it says.
Does spirit have body…I believe Angels could have bodies like ours though different.
The highest form of Spirit for Human is to feel. Love in the heart for God, Love in the heart for others. God is love. God is Spirit.
To be free of our bodies, to be free of our 'earthly weight”, that would be Spirit, pure as it is. Does it still have a body ? Of course it has to be an individual still, a creation of Gods, but a different form, different abilities, freedom, changed, mortal becomes immortal,
It's how I see it, I think. Is that how you see it ?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 22 2010,15:16) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 22 2010,12:48) The point is, people imagine these Nephilum arent here today, because there are no huge groups of Giants walking around. However, it depends what the word stature means. As were the days of Noah so shall it be, who knows ?
Hi Shimmer,You are right. I checked with NETNotes (cringe JA, cringe) and while the original Hebrew only says “stature”, most translations add “large” or “great” before it.
I think they get that from the following verse that says they were like grasshoppers compared to these “stature” people.
And what makes you think the Nephilim of today would have to live in one large group? There are definitely some big dudes out there. Maybe NBA players are Nephilims!
peace and love,
mike
Haha yeah,
I have to go, teas burning, really.Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 22 2010,00:36) Hey, i got a great joke about that…
Do you wanna hear it? And it does involve 'Super Men'…
Yeah i'm still waiting. JA.Gene, thanks for your post.
Mike,
I don't get what you are on about. Are you saying that 'Nephilim' doesn't translate as 'Giants', 'Large Stature'…how 'Large' does Large have to be to be classifiable as Giant. Was not Goliath and his brothers not called Giants?
Do you just like saying something different just for fun?
Many translations say 'Giants'…and there would be nothing wrong in the use of the word.
The false claims by the spies were only exagerations, for which they were punished because God alluded to not fearing them (I already said that they were probably pretty stupid…most 'giants' don't have much brain…just think what havoc they could cause if they did!!)
Mike,
Who gives life to a human? An Angel or God?Can an Angel give its Spirit to another, or is this 'of God alone'?
But, Man can procreate another man. Why, because God has put into man to be able to do so because Man is made in the image of God (I see you sneakily try to say that Angels are also made in the Image of God elsewhere…)
Since only God can give life, how did the Angels give life to the seed of the woman…unless the Godgiven procreative action was 'induced' by the Angels without 'Sperm'. Which one of our Science experts made this claim, Kerwin, was it?.
If this induced fertilisation were empowered by external powerful forces, it could well produce perverted humans not in keeping with the natural boundaries of humankind: Size, power, mind, thought, strength, limbs, …etc.
Doesn't mythology speak of such creatures in all parts of the earth, Cyclops amongs the Greek, giant single eyed monsters (Giants…), Trolls, etc,.Jude 1:6 alludes to the position from which these Angels fell, indicating that Angels were appointed positions of power ad authority in heaven, stations….thrones, principalities, etc. These wicked Angels foresook their position, choosing to chase procreation among humans never thinking that it could not be a fruitful lasting relationship. Such foolhardyness could only result in equal foolhardiness of mind among their offspring.
The Angels would have to become, as man, before they could procreate with human women. And even so, they could not 'fertilize' the human egg with full human spermatoza,,,or whatever…as a full human contains aspects not given to Angels, namely, the image of God….hence the distortion of the natural features of the natural man.
In the Superman films, Clarke Kent is warned not to have relations with human women but the stories make him do so…his prodigy appears fully human (with hidden powers) for the purpose of our pleasure…but why would it be so if he was warned against it….answer, because this is how Satan would have wanted us to think of the Nephilim….as Heroes, Mighty Gods, men of reknown……notice that 'superboys' first act was one of violence, even if it were supposedly to protect his mother…(I didn't notice that she was unnaturally hurt from the 'intercourse' with Superman, nor from the carrying a 'superchild', nor from the 'Superbirth')
Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 23 2010,06:07) Mike, I don't get what you are on about. Are you saying that 'Nephilim' doesn't translate as 'Giants', 'Large Stature'…how 'Large' does Large have to be to be classifiable as Giant. Was not Goliath and his brothers not called Giants?
Do you just like saying something different just for fun?
Many translations say 'Giants'…and there would be nothing wrong in the use of the word.
The false claims by the spies were only exagerations, for which they were punished because God alluded to not fearing them (I already said that they were probably pretty stupid…most 'giants' don't have much brain…just think what havoc they could cause if they did!!)
That was me. But iv said all I want to here, thanks.Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 23 2010,05:11) (I see you sneakily try to say that Angels are also made in the Image of God elsewhere…)
JA, is Jesus an angel in your opinion or not? You say he is and was just an angel like the others, right?Yet scripture says he was “in the form of God” before coming as a man. Scripture says he is the image of the invisible God. Scripture says he is the “exact representation” of God. And God had to be talking to someone in heaven when He said, “Let US make man in OUR image.”
You can't have your cake and eat it too JA. If Jesus is an angel JUST LIKE THE OTHERS, then why would be the ONLY angel made in God's image? If Jesus was an angel JUST LIKE THE OTHERS, then wouldn't the others also be made in God's image? And if the angels are made in God's image, and we are made in God's image, then I would venture that the angels are made similar to us, but with less baggage and more abilities.
So there's nothing “sneaky” about it. Who do YOU think God was talking to when he said, “Let US make man in OUR image”?
And why would you even assume that we can procreate but angels can't? Is there a scripture somewhere that implies that? Aren't the angels “higher” than us? Why would we be given a “power” that they aren't?
I really don't know if angels procreate amongst themselves JA. But I know scripture never says they don't. What scripture DOES say is that angels mated with human women and the human women bore the angel's children – and they were called Nephilim.
The meaning of Nephilim in Hebrew is uncertain, but most assume it refers to people of large stature based on the “grasshopper” comparison and also on the fact that the LXX translates the word as “gigantus”. So the Hebrew/Greek scholars that translated the OT into Greek apparently thought it referred to “giants”, or “very big dudes”. I was never trying to say anything different. Shimmer and I were just openly and freely discussing scriptures and ideas.
mike
To All……….Mixing up Spirit with Bodies is a Hugh Problem in Christianity. Most have no idea what spirit really is , Because they envision GOD as a BEING of Some kind. When in fact Go is not a Being at all but a POWER of FORCE that CAUSES EFFECTS (IN) Beings. Even Jesus told the Disciple He spoke about the Father in Proverbial (fictitious illustrations) Language, and a time would come when he would show Him plainly to them. Jesus also said a Spirit does not have a body of flesh and bone as he Had , But Jesus with that body went through a door and appeared and disappeared also.
But Jesus did not say he din not Have Spirit (IN) Him now did he> Spirit must be (IN) all thing that has Life it is the animating Force the animated all life. I started a thread on the Spirit before to try to get it better understood, once you understand it, it clears up many scriptures. I have found if you always look at Spirit as What is (IN) a being it makes sense in most all scriptures. IMO
peace and love to you all……………………………………………gene
Mike………..They are in this sense, they have Bodies, and GOD creates their spirits (IN) them and sends them out to minister to the future Childern of GOD. You read that like you do other scripture , thinking GOD creates His angels as Spirit (BEINGS), but that is not true He creates their Spirits (intellects) IN THEM. So in that sense they are Spirit being just as we shall also be. But they do have bodies as we also shall have.
Another words GOD cause them to think by the Spiirt (intellect) that he puts them, the way they do and sends them to minister to all future sons of God. Angel have bodies as attested to in many scriptures. A spirit does not have a body according to Jesus. It is what is (IN) a Body. Our future bodies will be like the angels have, but they certainly will be bodies that can be seen. Angels my be invisible at our spectrum level but they do have bodies and can be seen as attested to in scripture. IMO
peace and love……………………………..gene
Hey Gene,
Do you know of a scripture that calls any human “a spirit” in that same sense (or any sense)?
We are flesh with spirit in us, but I can't think of any time humans are called “spirits”.
On the other hand, Paul clearly and without mincing words says that angels are ministering spirits – not that they are “bodies with spirit (INTELLECT) put inside them by God”.
Do you see what I mean? I agree with you and (I think) everyone else here except JA that angels have bodies. I just think they are spiritual bodies because angels are spirits. That's what Paul is saying in 1 Cor 15 Gene……….IMO
mike
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