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Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 20 2011,21:03)
The way I see it is, spiritual can become visible here, but not elsewhere.
Visible TO WHOM? How do you know that spirits aren't ALWAYS “visible” to other spirits? In fact, why would you even think that they wouldn't be?Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 20 2011,21:03)
Mike, its me not Jay.
Okay. I just thought that maybe JA was feeding you again. I personally think this thread would have only lasted two pages if not for him.
Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 20 2011,21:03)
And I still have more thinking to do, when it comes to answering your question on those verses.
I'll be anxiously awaiting your “alternate scenario” of 1 Cor 15.In the mean time, please answer one question:
What do you think separates one spirit being in heaven from another?
peace and love to you,
mikeMike……….If you understood what spirit was you could answer you own above question. Spirit is (NOT) a Being it never was a Being. Spirits are Just INTELLECTS. Spirits are unique in this sense , the are unique kinds of (intellects), there is clean intellects or spirits and unclean intellects or spirits, these all can inhabit anyones body yours mine or whoever, Those Spirit are NOT unique to YOU or anyone else for that matter they are common among all life forms. They animate us all and reside in our Bodies and animate them. God Also is a composition of Seven (distinct) Spirits (intellect) and these are found in all creation in us as well as in every creature that has life in them, in fact they are the life of those creatures, When it say these seven spirit go to and from throughout the earth they in deed do they are in all creation.IMO, Think about it.
peace and love……………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 21 2011,02:34) Mike……….If you understood what spirit was you could answer you own above question. Spirit is (NOT) a Being it never was a Being.
And you would understand better if you were willing to take ALL the scriptures into account…………..AS THEY ARE WRITTEN.Angels ARE most definitely “beings”, and scripture says angels are spirits.
Jesus is most definitely “a being”, and scripture says Jesus became a life giving spirit.
Gene, consider ALL of the scriptures AS THEY ARE WRITTEN, without adding words or changing them, and then we can talk. Until you are willing to take all of the scriptures word for word as they are written, then you are a clanging cymbal like Adam. Why should I listen to YOUR OWN opinions when they don't align with the scriptures?
mike
Gene! How will you be able to recognize one Spirit from the other, if they don't have some kind of form?
1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Also this Scripture is clear, there are spiritual bodies. So whats the problem?
We are on page 200 and why? is this scripture not enough to convince you and others??Peace and love Irene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 21 2011,05:19) Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 20 2011,21:03)
Mike, its me not Jay.
Okay. I just thought that maybe JA was feeding you again. I personally think this thread would have only lasted two pages if not for him.Really? If I may just quote Jay from page two,
Posted: Nov. 16 2010,09:03
Does the wind have a body?
Does the wind have a form?
Both questions are quite noddy
Think very hard…yes, you getting warm.The wind is like Spirit
'It blows where it wills'
The Scriptures doth say it.
Ethereal force or a body it fills.The form of the wind, what doth this mean?
What other than 'Essence', a thing not seen.
even toward 'manner' or 'mode' you could lean,
But not like 'Matter' that we can touch and preen.Scriptures says there's a type of body in heaven,
But i think it's talking about Christ after he is risen.
There's certainly bodies in human form
And this how it is spoken of, ere the norm.Flesh and blood is body, given to man,
It can't be in heaven, no way it can!
For heaven is ethereal, a Spiritual realm,
With Angels and Jesus, and God at its helm.I thought that was really good.
Quote In the mean time, please answer one question: What do you think separates one spirit being in heaven from another?
I think I tried to answer that further back, didnt I?
When I said something about the wind.Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 22 2011,16:29) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 21 2011,05:19) Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 20 2011,21:03)
Mike, its me not Jay.
Okay. I just thought that maybe JA was feeding you again. I personally think this thread would have only lasted two pages if not for him.Really? If I may just quote Jay from page two,
Posted: Nov. 16 2010,09:03
Does the wind have a body?
Does the wind have a form?
Both questions are quite noddy
Think very hard…yes, you getting warm.The wind is like Spirit
'It blows where it wills'
The Scriptures doth say it.
Ethereal force or a body it fills.The form of the wind, what doth this mean?
What other than 'Essence', a thing not seen.
even toward 'manner' or 'mode' you could lean,
But not like 'Matter' that we can touch and preen.Scriptures says there's a type of body in heaven,
But i think it's talking about Christ after he is risen.
There's certainly bodies in human form
And this how it is spoken of, ere the norm.Flesh and blood is body, given to man,
It can't be in heaven, no way it can!
For heaven is ethereal, a Spiritual realm,
With Angels and Jesus, and God at its helm.I thought that was really good.
Quote In the mean time, please answer one question: What do you think separates one spirit being in heaven from another?
I think I tried to answer that further back, didnt I?
When I said something about the wind.
Karmariei read this quote and again and again it does not mean nothing .
the only thing i can see is that it seams that for some reason you are seeing something in that .
Pierre
Hi Kar,
Quote Scriptures says there's a type of body in heaven,
But i think it's talking about Christ after he is risen.
This is from JA's poem. Why would Christ, who is also a spirit like the angels, be the ONLY thing in heaven with a body?If you can't come up with a different scenario of 1 Cor 15 than the understanding that I posted, then why are you trying so hard? Paul CLEARLY says that as is Jesus, SO ARE THOSE OF HEAVEN. And we KNOW Jesus has a glorious new body, because Phil 3:21 says so. We KNOW there are natural earthly bodies of flesh and blood, and we KNOW there are spiritual bodies.
I really don't think this whole subject would have been hard for you at all if not for JA and his rants.
Consider the ONE and ONLY post t8 ever made in this thread. He said, “Forgive my ignorance, but isn't the bodies of spirits what Paul is talking about in 1 Cor 15?” (Paraphrase)
It seems so easy to everyone on this site except for JA, and by deferrence, you.
Anyway, if you can't come up with a plausible alternative scenario for 1 Cor 15, and you can't tell me what separates one angel from another, then I think this thread has run its course. Hit me up when you can explain 1 Cor 15 in a way where Paul is NOT talking about the bodies that spirits have. Until then, I have no problem agreeing to disagree with you on this matter.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2011,13:08) Consider the ONE and ONLY post t8 ever made in this thread. He said, “Forgive my ignorance, but isn't the bodies of spirits what Paul is talking about in 1 Cor 15?” (Paraphrase)
No! Page two, quote t8Quote God is spirit. It doesn't say that he has a spirit body as far as I know. One reason that no one can see God is because he is eternal and is spirit. Whereas, Jesus is the image of the invisible God in BODILY form. By reason of being contained in a visible body makes one visible. If you were an eternal spirit, then how is that visible? He is invisible.
Is this what you believe Mike?
So your wrong on that!Quote Anyway, if you can't come up with a plausible alternative scenario for 1 Cor 15, and you can't tell me what separates one angel from another, then I think this thread has run its course. Hit me up when you can explain 1 Cor 15 in a way where Paul is NOT talking about the bodies that spirits have. Until then, I have no problem agreeing to disagree with you on this matter.
I agree completly with Jay.
And only because I reconciled something I already knew, with what Jay was saying!But I agree, that we should agree to disagree on this.
OK.Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 22 2011,17:27) And Terrarica too.
Karyou do not know that God as a soul??
Ps 11:5 The LORD examines the righteous,
but the wicked and those who love violence
his soul hates.it is easy to say YOU ARE WRONG,and that it ,
you are in tittle to your opinion but it does not prove anything,
beside that you are very opinionated.Pierre
Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 20 2011,02:37) Kerwin, I have to say too, lately you have been writing some really good posts!
Thank you! May God's name be glorigfied and not mine. I believe God moves me at time and other times,sadly, I allow myserlf to get in the way.Karmarie,
I believe souls exist in Sheol/Hades with form but no bodies. These souls are able to sense, communicate, and much else we do though probably not in the same way. I also have come to believe they are the the breath of life that gives our bodies life.
I do not believe these bodyless souls are the resurected human being.
Mike,
God is not tempted by evil and human beings are. I believe you would be better to use the angels as an example in your argument as they were tempted and those who did not fall instead walked by the Spirit. I do not know if angels were tempted like we are and yet did not sin. I do know that scripture states Jesus was and it states that for a purpose. It seem obvious that purpose is to encourage us that we can overcome all sin by putting on the new self created like God in true righteousness and holiness. To do this we must believe it can be done because God will do it for us even as he promised. That is my logic.
Early Jewish/Christian mysticism of the type taught in scripture is not abstract gibberish but a rather a way to make students seek God by his spirit. That is why Jesus taught he was about drinking his blood and eating his flesh.
Any one that seeks God should know that all good things come from above whether they are food you eat, the cloths you wear, or the promised Anointed One. The things that come from below are from the devil. This is why Jesus told those, he stated came from below, that they were the children of the devil.
Quote (Baker @ Feb. 21 2011,06:59) Gene! How will you be able to recognize one Spirit from the other, if they don't have some kind of form? 1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Also this Scripture is clear, there are spiritual bodies. So whats the problem?
We are on page 200 and why? is this scripture not enough to convince you and others??Peace and love Irene
Irene………. You recognize one spirit (intellect) from another by their words (expressed intellects) These tell you the Spirit working in them either clean or unclean, all life forms have Spirit. A Spiritual “BODY” Is a physical BODY Kept alive (BY) SPIRIT (intellect) working (IN) (that body). A Spirit and A Body are different things, Spirits do not Have BODIES they exist (IN) bodies they can leave or enter them. GOD is Spirit and He was (IN) Jesus remember, It was not a BODY in Jesus' Body, but GOD the Father who is Spirit was (IN) HIM> Spirit is INTELLECT and Intellects do NOT have BODIES, This is Simple to understand if you think about it. When we are told to try the SPIRITS we are not trying the bodies but the (INTELLECTS) or Spirits coming forth in speech from those BODIES. That is why Jesus said the Words he was telling us was SPIRIT and LIFE.He did not say they were Bodies now did he but Spirit>Because people do not understand what SPIRIT IS, and what SOUL is, and that a “BEING' or “SOUL” has BOTH SPIRIT and a BODY , they get all screwed up. IMO
peace and love……………………………..gene
Mike and all, it is obvious from the scripture that you want me to explain Mike, 1 corinthians 15 that Jesus is the first to be given a glorified body risen from the dead. Then were others. That's what the verses are talking about. Spirit is still spirit, and you can't see spirit, it has no matter body or form, its invisible. God is spirit. Angels are spirit. So trying to say pure spirit has a body isn't in scripture. Only the risen Christ and those after have a glorified spiritual body, but it's nothing like ours. We can't walk through walls or fire or anything like that. And 1 Corinthians 15 is talking about this. It doesn't mean God or Angels have bodies or anything. Its talking about Jesus and those who follow. Jesus said spirits don't have what he had.
“So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. ……..this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
karmarie,
I am glad you quoted from 1 Corinthians 15 since I just noticed that it treats the old body and the new body as the same body which undergoes a miracules change.
“It(the body) is sown in corruption; It(the body) is raised in incorruption.” That makes it look as if the body transforms before being raised from the grave.
Plese not the body in ()'s is my words in both cases in order to explain what I meant in my previous paragraph.
Kerwin……….you have it right (IT) is the Same BODY the same DNA that will be RAISED From the GRAVE and empowered with eternal life with Spirit (intellect) added back into (IT) that body. Just as Jesus' body was raised up from its grave to life again so will ours be. There is no Spirit “BODIES” floating around anywhere. Karmarie said our bodies can't go through Fire , but she failed to consider Eshac, Meshac and Abigo, their bodies did, and not a even a scorched Hair on them. Jesus' Flesh “BODY” went through a Door and disappeared from their sight also. All thing are Possible with GOD (IN) our Physical BODIES. IMO
peace and love……………………………..gene
Gene and Kerwin, I do believe as you said. Remember, I have always said that part about Eshac, Meshac and Abigo, and how their bodies never got burnt. I believe the bodies of Gods people will be protected from the heat and fire of the last day, which is the day of the Lord, which comes, burning as an oven (Malachi 14:1 and 2nd Peter 3), but I never understood how.
Maybe your right. Maybe this has to do with the change that takes place, as scripture says,
'In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed…1 Corinthians 15:52.
So this is also the resurrection of the dead, the same day.
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