Do spirits have bodies?

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 12 2011,15:25)

Mike,

I do acknowledge that Adam, as the one in authority, bears a greater guilt for sin entering the world than does Eve who was subject to him.

Hi Kerwin,

But what “you acknowledge” really has nothing to do with it……….does it? What SCRIPTURE SAYS is that sin entered through ONE MAN. So unless your beliefs align with what the scriptures actually say, then why would I put any stock in it?

And “punishment” is one thing, the inability to escape sin is another.

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 12 2011,15:25)

That it scripture means that those who have not yet entered the new covenant are slaves to sin. It is that slavery Jesus sets us free from.

I agree we are taught not to be “slaves to sin”. We are taught to not GIVE IN TO our fleshly desires. But the sacrifice of Jesus didn't make it so there is no sin – the sacrifice made it so we are forgiven FOR THOSE SINS.

Look guys, I appreciate that you all don't want to sin anymore……..neither do I. What I resent is that you all seem to think that since Jesus was “just like us” and HE didn't sin, then somehow you can “will yourselves” to never sin again. But Jesus was NOT “just like us”, and you cannot just “will yourselves” not to sin as long as you are flesh. You can make the attempt, which I'm sure scores big points with God, but God understands that sin is in our nature now. He always did understand that, and therefore started the sacrifices to atone FOR the sins of His chosen people.

Scripture says that “ALL sin and fall short”. We Christians are not perfect or sinless, but we are forgiven.

peace and love,
mike

February 12, 2011 at 11:35 pm#235941

Participant

Mike……..Again you misquote scripture by leaving out points that may disagree with you. It does not say Sin was already (IN) MAN now does it?, as a Inherited condition would imply. It Say, “sin entered into “THE WORLD”, Through ADAM, No where does it say that people “INHERITED SIN”, People do not inherit sin they become sinners they are not born sinners. that is just you assumption, because if that were true then How could GOD Judge Us if we “INHERITED SIN” by being born sinners. How could we be held accountable for an inherited condition beyond our control. No each will give account of his OWN SINS before GOD and as it say ALL THE WORLD HAS BECAME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.

Mike you are not forgiven sins anymore if you are a child of GOD, GOD requires Perfection NOW and His Spirit is available (NOW) to Produce that in our Lives , If your still sinning then take it to GOD and ask for forgiveness (NOW) and He is faithful to forgive US (NOW) “AND TO CLEANSE US FROM (ALL) UNRIGHTEOUSNESS (NOW)> If we do not OVERCOME (NOW) we will not be in the kingdom of God with Jesus. Only those who overcome “(AS)” Jesus did will be in his kingdom with him. Men deceive themselves to think they can still sin and not be held accountable for them. While we have passed from Death to life, By the death penalty being paid for by our brother Jesus, our kinsman Redeemer, that does not do away with fiery or Intense Judgements (NOW) that are on all the house hold of God, NOW. IMO

peace and love……………………………………..gene

February 13, 2011 at 7:20 am#235960

gollamudi

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 13 2011,01:13)

Adam………You are right because sin is sin and we all have a propensity to sin, because we are exposed to it in this earth at a very young and impressionable age. John said, “ALL THAT IS IN THE WORLD THE LUST OF THE EYES AND THE LUST OF THE FLESH AND THE PRIDE OF LIFE ARE (FROM) THE WORLD. And even if Adam introduced it into the world, still each and everyone will give an account of himself before GOD. I believe Jesus did not die (FOR) our sin but BECAUSE of the death penalty attached to them by GOD. WE all know GOD can not lie and he said the Soul that Sins shall PARISH and we also know all have sinned (except Jesus). Now there is no way we can ever live if God keep his word and extracts it on us, because we all have sinned and so all must die or parish. We are left without branch or root in a state of eternal non existence. (BUT) according to the LAW there was a way provided for us and that was the KINSMAN REDEEMER found in the law. This kinsmen redeemer could Pay the Price required HIMSELF and Jesus who never sinned and therefore did not have to die could pay our debt, life for life , his life for our life and in that way according to the LAW remove the death penalty sentence pronounced on us who sin by GOD Himself and we all know GOD does not lie. Jesus work within the confines of the LAW of GOD and Paid our price. “FOR YOU HAVE BEEN PURCHASED WITH A PRICE”> Now with that said does that mean we then can continue to sin No God forbid, What happens now if through the know of the truth and your acceptance of the Price paid for you you continue to sin willfully then there remains no more sacrifice for it, but certain fiery judgments of God. It is one thing to say Jesus died for our death penalty and quite another to say he died for our present and future sins . If we think he died for our present and future sin that is doing despite to the grace of GOD, a very dangerous position to be in IMO. We must with the help and Spirit of God put all sin out of our lives (NOW) or we will be dealt servilely with IMO>

Peace and love to you and yours……………………………………..gene

Thank you very much brother Gene for such agreement.

Love and peace to you
Adam

February 13, 2011 at 4:33 pm#235974

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 13 2011,09:35)

Hi Gene,

Thank you for this time wording your post in such a way as to NOT attribute beliefs to me that I don't have. It's better for you to say “some people believe” than to lump me in with those “some people” as you have done in the past. Really……..thank you for the accurate wording this time.

And I can only suggest that you connect the dots about the “inherit” point.

If scripture says “sin entered the world through one man”, and then goes on to say “all have sinned, and all fall short”, then I'm only connecting the dots. Because it doesn't say, “all HAVE FALLEN SHORT”, as in PAST TENSE, but instead “all FALL SHORT”, which I take to mean, “all CONTINUE TO FALL SHORT”.

David was a follower of God all his life. Yet he still stole another man's wife – and then put that man in a position where it was likely he would be killed, just to cover up his indiscretion. You make it sound like those who sin at all are cut of from the Kingdom of God. And I'm telling you that is NOT the way it is. We are not to keep INTENTIONALLY sinning, but since it is inevitable we all WILL continue to sin unintentionally throughout our lives, God has ransomed us from those unintentional and inevitable sins through the sacrifice of His only begotten Son.

peace and love,
mike

February 13, 2011 at 5:25 pm#235978

Participant

Mike……….David did indeed sin and committed Adulatory with Bathsheba as well as had Uriah the Hittite Murdered. He was a adulator and a murder. But notice what God did to him , He killed their baby, and sent a sword to remain in the house of David and his progeny. His childern killed each other and Joab killed Epsilon. There were grave consequences on David for his sin, all that God love he will do the same thing to even now. King David did not get away with his sins at all.

Jesus' sacrifice were for (the results of sin) OF THE WHOLE WORLD (THE DEATH PENALTY) however that does not mean all penalty's are done away with. In fact if God does not discipline you and scourge you (NOW) for your (PRESENT) sins you are considered a Bastard.
It say God will forgive us our sins (IF) we acknowledge them and ask for forgiveness, but it also say he will cleanse of from all sin, now how does he do that , just snap his finger and that is it (NO) he will (NOW)severely discipline us (FIERY JUDGMENTS) and drive those sins from us until we (TRULY) repent (NOW) and are cleansed from them.

Many read “WHERE SIN ABOUNDED (past tense) GRACE DID MUCH MORE ABOUND” as God is graciously overlooking our sins because we are under the blood of Christ. Nothing can be further from the truth . God's grace convicts us of our sin (NOW) and if we do not repent of them (NOW) then he takes action and cast us into a fiery judgement (NOW) not later , This i know from first hand experiences. Many suffer things from GOD because of not repenting and are being intensely dealt with (NOW)> for the purpose of cleansing us. “JUDGMENT BEGINS WITH THE HOUSE OF GOD”. (NOW) not later as some assume. If this is not happening in you life (NOW)then you are a bastard concerning the faith.

God read what the Spirit said through Jesus to the Churches in Revelations to the seven churches, Like Jezebel and those who commit fornication with her see what happens to them (NOW) if they do not repent.

peace and love to you and yours………………………………gene

February 14, 2011 at 12:49 am#235993

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 14 2011,03:25)

he will (NOW)severely discipline us (FIERY JUDGMENTS) and drive those sins from us until we (TRULY) repent (NOW) and are cleansed from them.

Hi Gene,

Then what is the judgement day all about? If we are being judged and already receiving our punishment or awards from God on a day to day basis, then why is there a judgement day when all men will be judged according to how they lived their lives?

mike

February 14, 2011 at 1:29 am#235996

shimmer

Participant

Isnt judgment day the day of harvest? The seperation of the wheat and the weeds, or the sheep and the goats? One are put on Jesus's right side, and the others on his left, the weeds to be thrown into the fire……….the second death?

February 14, 2011 at 2:56 am#235999

shimmer

Participant

'Don't be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.'

February 14, 2011 at 3:46 am#236000

karmarie

Participant

Mike, from now on I'm posting as karmarie, which has edit.

Just so you know……shimmer!

February 15, 2011 at 2:16 am#236040

Blocked

Yeah, edit is a good thing, eh?

mike

February 15, 2011 at 11:07 am#236062

Participant

Mike Boll,

What God stated to Mosses is the one who sins is the one whose name will be blotted out of the Book of Life, Exodus 32:33. Since that is the case we do not loose eternal life because of Adam’s or anyone else’s sins but our own. You must consider that context before you can come to correctly understand what Paul is teaching in Romans 5:13. You should also remember what Jesus teaches in John 8:31:36 as he teaches us that the Son sets those that believe truly free from slavery to sin. So I ask you “why those who do not obey his teachings are slaves to sin?” The answer seems obvious from Romans 5:13. So it is also clear that Romans 5:17. Paul even tells us the miraculous process by which this occurs in Romans 6:1-10 and urges us to live by faith that it has occurred in Romans 6:11-24 and thus put our old spirit, which chains us to sin, to death and learn to live according to the Spirit of Christ that is born within us when we are baptized in his name. He also encourages us by writing that the reward for doing so is eternal life.

Do you not see that Jesus taught Nicodemus that we must be born again, John 3:1-8? He teaches us that because the spirit we inherit from Adam chases after sinful desires and so must be replaced by one that is does not. That is why we need a new spirit.

As to who is guilty of allowing sin to enter the world then consider that Eve sinned first and is said by Scripture to have deceived Adam into sinning. Even though scripture tells us both things it still states sin entered through Adam. This is true for two reasons. The first is that because Adam was in authority it was his responsibility to see that his subjects obeyed God; Eve being his subject. The second reason is that Adam sinned instead of acting according to his righteous responsibility. Had Eve sinned and Adam not sinned then their offspring would have not been subjected to corruption since God would have and only Eve would have been subject to judgment along with the serpent. Had it been Adam that sinned and Eve that did not then it would have been Adam alone subject to judgment along with the serpent and their offspring would not be subject to corruption. We know this because God is just and does not punish those who do right and Satan was not yet the ruler of this world. We also know that God knew beforehand that neither of those two possibilities would occur. What would and did occur is that both Adam and Eve would sin and it is only the one God appointed before creating to receive his Spirit that would become the Anointed at the proper time even as we are taught by Scripture.

The just wages of sin is death, Romans 6:23a. The inability to escape sin is the result of the corrupt spirit that we inherit from Adam, Romans 5:17a, Romans 6:20-21 and Romans 3:9-19 that is overcome by living according to the spirit of God, Romans 6:22,23b, Romans 5:17b and Romans 3:21-22.

What version of scripture are you using as in Romans 3:23 the NIV states “…for all have sinned…” in the past tense as you can see.

It is true that Jesus atoned for the sins committed by each of his people before they become fully mature in him even as Romans 3:22-25 teaches us. It is also true that Jesus came to save us from our sins just as the angel of the gospels foretold. In doing this we become fully mature in him.

Sin is the nature of man but it is not the divine nature,2 Peter 1:4, that those who live by the Holy Spirit partake in, Galatians 5:22-24. That is why each of us must be born again in Spirit. Jesus received this Spirit because of his perfect faith in God for it is written that the righteous will live by faith and we know Jesus is righteous as he was tempted as we are but without sin. God also foretells that he will put his spirit on his servant and the one who perfectly believes in him is truly God’s servant. It is that Spirit Jesus received because of his perfect faith, Isaiah 42:1, which he turns around and also gives to those who truly believe he is King of all things and so obey all his teachings. His Holy Spirit is not diminished by giving it to others but instead unites them to him just as it united him to God. In this way all are united under Christ who is under God.

February 15, 2011 at 9:47 pm#236082

karmarie

Participant

Hi.

Topic: Do spirits have bodies? How about god?

So how is this topic going? I havent been following. Where I was up to I think…

Biblical verses to show that God is (invisible) spirit and that spirit has no body or form, and that God being spirit cannot be contained:

''God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth'
John 4:24

'Jesus is the image of the invisible God'
Col 1:15.

'See my hands and feet, that it is truly me. Touch me and see, for a spirit doesn't have flesh and bones, as you see I have
Luke 24

'But who is able to build Him an house, seeing the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain Him?
2 Chronicles 2:6

Let me ask a question, when you go up to heaven to be with God….will you be able to hear, see, smell, taste, speak?

February 16, 2011 at 12:04 am#236101

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 14 2011,10:49)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 14 2011,03:25)

he will (NOW)severely discipline us (FIERY JUDGMENTS) and drive those sins from us until we (TRULY) repent (NOW) and are cleansed from them.

Hi Gene,

mike

Mike……..Remember when Jesus said those who believe have PASSED from (death) to LIFE. We are being JUDGED WITH FIERY trials (NOW) and disciplined (NOW) if you are a member of the Household of GOD (NOW) and Judgment begins with the HOUSE of GOD. We are the HOUSE , that Building made by GOD (NOW).

Joh 5:24…> truly, truly, i say unto you, He that hears ny word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, (past tense) AND SHALL NOT come into (CONDEMNATION; but is PASSED (past tense) form death unto LIFE.

1 Pe 4:17…….> For the time (IS COME) that JUDGMENT must begin at the HOUSE OF GOD: and if it first begins at us; what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of GOD.

peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene

February 16, 2011 at 5:18 am#236122

http://www.logoslibrary.org/justin/trypho/056.html

Participant

karmarie(Shimmer),

Currently we are discussing why one must believe Jesus is a human being as opposed to a spiritualy being. I stated it is necessary to believe Jesus is human just like us in order to believe he was temted even as us but without sin. This is because we must believe he has no advantage over us in his battles against sin that we ourselves cannot obtain. His advantage was a complete faith for which God rewarded him by giving him the Holy Spirit. When we enter the new covenant we will obtain the Holy Spirit and as we mature in our faith we will live by that Spirit becomming more Christike as we mature.

February 16, 2011 at 8:35 am#236127

karmarie

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 16 2011,18:18)

karmarie(Shimmer),

Hi Kerwin, thanks. I do agree with some of what your saying, im not sure about the rest though.

I was just reading in St Justin Martyr (120 ad), Dialogue with Trypho a Jew.

He says: 'There is, and that there is said to be, another God and Lord subject to the Maker of all things who is also called an Angel, because He announces to men whatsoever the Maker of all things, above whom there is no other God, wishes to announce to them.'

'I shall give you another testimony, my friends,” said I, “from the Scriptures, that God begat before all creatures a Beginning, [who was] a certain rational power [proceeding] from Himself, who is called by the Holy Spirit, now the Glory of the Lord, now the Son, again Wisdom, again an Angel, then God, and then Lord and Logos; and on another occasion He calls Himself Captain.'

If the word of God appeared in many ways earlier, then how do we not know, that although he had an advantage over us, he came as a Man to show us what to do? Like an instructer shows a class what to do. He has an advantage over them because he is thier Teacher and he knows more. It was for our benefit after all.

Another possibility is that the pre-existant word or Holy Spirit or Angel of the Lord, worked through Jesus the Man, and it began at his baptism, when the Holy Spirit was seen to descend on him like a dove.

They argued over this a lot in the early church I think.

February 16, 2011 at 10:58 am#236132

terraricca

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 16 2011,22:18)

karmarie(Shimmer),

Kerwin

it is imperative that we believe that the Christ was send from God and appeared in the flesh ,

and the only way it could be confirmed is by the scriptures that was written before hand by the prophets,

this was the Godly witnessing that all the miracles and the fulfilment of all scriptures would glorify God and Christ,

to be the true God and Jesus the true messiah.

Pierre

February 16, 2011 at 1:32 pm#236140

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 16 2011,15:18)

karmarie(Shimmer),

Kerwin………..You are right in this and it is not later we must attain, but NOW. “AS HE IS SO ARE WE”. AND AGAIN “LET THIS MIND BE IN YOU AS WAS IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD. Same mind same effect. This whole idea of separating Jesus from our Identity in what Mystery Religion is all about. It tares down the faith of believing we (CAN) Over come (AS) Jesus Himself did. You have it right Jesus was and is no different then we are now or when he walked the earth, the same Spiirt Mind should be producing the Same effect in our lives NOW> IMO

February 17, 2011 at 9:26 am#236184

Participant

karmarie(Shimmer),

I question the assumption of Justin the Martyr that one of the three angels that visited Abraham near the great trees of Mamre was literally God, Genesis 18:1-5. First God is an invisible spirit which would mean that he would not be seen and second the people of the time period often referred to angels of God as God as they functioned as God’s agents. Those two facts demolish his argument.

If you look to 2 Peter 1:19-21 you will find that the prophets of God are carried along by the Spirit of Christ when they speak his words. In a like manner the Angels are also carried along by the Spirit of Christ and so it can be said that God lives in them and they in God. As such they represent God to men more completely than the prophets of old.

The Spirit of Christ that carried both them and the prophets of old along is the same Spirit that came from above to dwell in Jesus and so made him the Son of God. That Spirit is his guide since it is the God’s Spirit. The Spirit is not Jesus but it is the guide that he chose to live and speak by even though he is a human being just like us and not an angel.

Jesus promises us that if we yearn, even faint to be righteous as God is then will obtain it. He proved that it was so by maintaining that righteousness himself even though he was tempted as we are. We must believe that and every other promise of God. Anything that will damage our belief is from the devil who desires our fall.

February 17, 2011 at 9:28 am#236185

Participant

Pierre,

I believe Jesus is King of Everything because of who God is and how Jesus spoke and acted. I look back and become informed about both him and God by what the prophets of old say.

I speak of Jesus and the Spirit of Christ in the post I just made to karmarie.

February 17, 2011 at 9:29 am#236186