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Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 22 2010,08:24) Pierre, You wrote:
Quote kerwin
you are placing ,men tradition above Gods word,
you will in this way never come to the full understanding of Gods word.and never understand Christ spirit.
Jesus told us about the yeast of those men and there traditions
This is a groundless accusation and does not continue the conversation. What are you afraid of?
Kerwini am not afraid of anything but God,
this is the wrong way to see Gods words;; Posted: Nov. 21 2010,01:10
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Pierre,The whole old and new testaments contain Jewish interpretation of Scripture so it is unwise to call such ungodly as you then call Scripture ungodly. That is one reason I have advised you to listen long so that you could consider what you should say and test is to make sure it is in agreement with the Spirit of God before answering.
Paul is a Jew of the Pharisee tradition and does not hide that fact. He even continued to call Jews brothers after his conversion, Acts 28:17. It is only us modern people that have been conditioned to believe that Christians Jews are anything but different traditions of the same religion. May God free you and others from that trap of Satan’s?
Scripture tells us that Paul a Jew of the Christian tradition obviously believed and taught of the third heaven and we know from other sources the third heaven is part of the Jewish teaching on the seven heavens. The description of the third heaven both matches up to Paul’s description of it and to what Jesus alluded to as occurring after death in the present age. Psalms speaks of the highest heavens and states they are God’s while earth is man’s.
The Spirit of God leads one to seek the truth while that of man seeks to silence the truth. Make an argument of why you believe my conclusions are not true instead of striving to silence them without a godly reason.
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Your Fellow Student,Kerwin
wen you imply that the scriptures are influence by Hebrew and christian tradition,
it looks like God is influenced by those tradition,and that we now according to KERWIN take notice of them,this is wrong.
GOD WORDS STANDS ALONE THOSE ARE THE HOLY SCRIPTURES NOT MEN WORDS,THIS IS KERWIN YOUR MIS FORTUNE OF NOT UNDERSTANDING SCRIPTURES,BECAUSE YOU IN YOUR MIND HAVE REDUCED GODS WORD TO THE WORDS OF MERE MEN,
YOUR RESULTS CAN BE SEEN FROM AFAR IN YOUR VIEWS OF THE WORD OF GOD.
Pierre
2 Timothy 3:16-17 NWT
16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.Kerwin
you seem to know that you do not know;
Group: Regular Members
Posts: 3265
Joined: Jan. 2009 Posted: Nov. 20 2010,03:50——————————————————————————–
Pierre,The fact that Paul was unsure means that either possibility could happen as Paul was speaking as the Holy Spirit moved him to. It follows therefore that the Holy Spirit testified through Paul that both possibilities could happen. This conclusion is true if Paul is speaking the Word of God and not just what he believes is true.
That is the first time I have heard anyone testify that Paul was speaking of Steven in 2 Corinthians 12:2. The first reason that comes to mind why this is not Steven is Paul was there when Steven had his vision and Paul would thus know that it was an out of body experience instead of being unsure as he clearly states he is. In addition a weak argument is that Steven saw Jesus at the right hand of God’s glory which would be in the highest of heavens and not the third heaven, see note.
Note: I do not know the exact number of heavens but according to Jewish theology it is seven. That will have to do until I have a better answer, though I do not feel it is worth debating. Psalms speaks of the highest heavens a number of times.
You will need to look at Paul’s whole argument starting at verse 35 in which he explains with what kind of body the dead are raised. As part of that argument Paul states:
1 Corinthians 15:39(NIV) reads:Quote
All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another.
He then continues comparing various bodies to the flesh mentioned in verse 39 and then splendor to them both even later. Thus you can say that spiritual flesh, aka body, splendor, are different from the worldly flesh, aka body, splendor.
Please read my last post to Just Askin as I point out several others that had spiritual flesh bodies at the time Scripture was written.
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Your Fellow Student,Kerwin
what is it that i have to understand???
Pierre
Mike,
I just read your comments about the Nephilim.
How can a Spirit 'procreate' with a human?
You don't believe that the Angels created bodies for themselves before they were able to procreate only because you want to say that 'Angels' procreate. No more than for that reason.
If the Angels made bodies for themselves and occupied them, do you still call them Angels…are they still messenging agents of God, are they not now Demons.
What is a human being but a flesh and blood body with a spirit in it.
What were the fathers of the Nephilim but 'flesh and blood bodies with a spirit in each'.They left their stations intending to be human and procreate, for Angels, created Spirits creatures, cannot procreate.
The Holy Spirit is of God, not a created being. When it overshadowed Mary, it did not require a body for what it 'fertilized' in Mary's egg was pure Spirit.
The Holy Spirit did not 'leave it's station' to overshadow Mary for it is all invasive, but the Angels had to become flesh and blood…had to put their spirit into the bodies they created, animating those bodies, and procreating with human women. The result of such an illicit union were the Nephilims.JA, where does it say any of that ?
Angels are spirits, we cant see them, but occasionally we can, which is why it says we can even entertain angels unaware, be nice to all who you meet because you never know. Angels can take the form of people, as is seen in scripture,
For the Nephilim to be born, something had to have happened. Do the nephilim still walk today on the earth ? There is a blood group which cant be cloned, RH O neg..they say 'where is it from?, this rare blood will attack and destroy an unborn fetus as if it is alien. People say they are the Nephilim….they also have 'psychic' abilities, eyes which change color, all kinds of strange things. Is it just conspiracy stories that are meaningless or not ? Who knows.
But spirits cant have bodeis, they dont go toilet, eat, etc, as Jesus said, so something must have happened.
Shimmer …………I assure you Angels Have bodies and GOD put the Spirits in the Just as we have Bodies and GOD adds Spirits into us. No one can exist outside of a Body as a living being except God Him or IT Self. People confuse where it say God creates His angels Spirits and sends them forth to minister, thinking that it is talking about GOD creating Angel as spirits and sending those spirits forth as bodiless beings. God give everything a (BODY) Just as HE Pleases, so every thing does have a Body as to what type it is that is a different thing.
Shimmer go read the account of Elijah where the angels were fighting fro Israel and when Elijah ask God to open the Lads eyes to see them, he definitely saw them and they did have bodies. There exists spectrum's of light we can not see with our Physical bodies unless God opens our eyes to them, but never the less they do exist. JA is wrong by saying Angels created their Own Bodies that simply is not true they can no more create there own bodies then we can. There is ONLY ONE CREATOR and that is GOD the FATHER, He along is the CREATOR of (ALL) Things IN heaven and Earth. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 22 2010,04:09) [
Ha!
Yes Gene, you and Martian are also included in the group that is afraid to answer direct questions directly. Hey Gene, I have been asking and asking this question to JA:
Now, here is the very simple question JA. Col 1:16 says all invisible rulers in heaven were created through Jesus. Now aside from God Himself who isn't a “creation” and Jesus, who could not logically be said to be created through himself, is there any logical SCRIPTURAL reason for you to insist this doesn't include the angels?Gene, I apparently missed the post where he directly answered my direct question. Could you tell me what his answer was? If you don't mind, please tell me his answer and post the link where I can find his answer that I overlooked.
Do you see what's happening here Gene? I have a group of “non-answerers” all trying to kick someone at the same time. It's funny that I don't hear these complaints from Shimmer, Kathi, Pierre, Irene, Kerwin or t8. Only from the people who are both claiming unscriptural things AND are afraid to confront the scriptures that refute the unscriptural things they are saying. I've heard it from WJ and KJ first – because they didn't want to answer a direct question about Eusebius. Then SF jumped on board, because like WJ and KJ, he would rather give a diversion instead of an actual answer – so I kept asking in the hope he would actually answer it. Now I got Ed saying it – and he even posted proof of me asking the same question 8 times! But he won't bother posting his supposed “answer” to that question that I “ignored” – because if he had actually answered the question, I would have moved on to my follow up question.
Did you notice my “follow up question” to JA today in the “superior” thread? Yeah, he wouldn't actually answer the purple one, so I moved on to the first of many follow up questions that I've had waiting.
Gene, what are you guys so afraid of? What if I did re-ask a question you already answered? You spend hours each week posting the same tired diatribes about pre-existers being trinitaians, antichrists and Gnostics. Would it kill you to just take 2 minutes and answer it again? I would think that if you are so sure of your claim that you would jump at the chance to reenforce it by getting the opportunity to re-answer my question……………….unless maybe you're not so proud of your answer in the first place.
Could that be it Gene? 
Mike………..Pride has nothing to do with it why should I be PROUD of my answers, But that statement doe show where you reside at.You say we have not anwered your (THROUGH CHRIST ) Question when in fact it has be answred many times by me and Martian and JA, it is you who have failed to respond to those replies with sound reasonings, I presented to you Man, man, Man, Scriptures the use the same word with all kinds of different meaning , I even quoted commentaries as well as Concordances to prove it . But not so much as one acknowledgment that YOU could Be WRONG is YOUR assumptions. This is the frustration here no one can advance in understand at all because you sit here as the man with all the answers and Just ignore our answering and then say we have not answered you put forth question when in fact it is YOU who have failed to answer our Posts, You simply change the subject by offering us something else that is not even being discussed or set up a different thread in order to skirt the issue at Hand. Then yell out you have not answered my questions trying to boost and elevate yourself above those who disagree with you. IMO
peace and love……………………………..gene
And JA, you said to Mike,
Quote Funny how the Nephilim looked liked humans but more powerful and big, giant…the poor women, did they survive the birth, or did the Nephilim 'burst out of the womb', 'Alien, …the movie…, style'
In Korea, many women are 'tiny'. When the Americans went over, they litterally killed many women in childbirth because thier union with the korean women resulted in babies too big to come out naturally.
See what happens with bad translations…theres no mention of the word Giant/Giants at all, in regards to Nephilum.
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword….nend=73Only..
Genesis 6
The fallen ones were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when sons of God come in unto daughters of men, and they have borne to them — they are the heroes, who, from of old, are the men of name.No mention of Giants, not that I can find, though people say that, I cant find it in scripture that they were Giants at all.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 22 2010,09:40) Shimmer …………I assure you Angels Have bodies and GOD put the Spirits in the Just as we have Bodies and GOD adds Spirits into us. No one can exist outside of a Body as a living being except God Him or IT Self. Peopl confuse where it say God creates His angels Spirits and sends them form to minister, think that it is talking about GOD creating Angel-spirits and sending those spirits forth as bodiless beings. God give everything a (BODY) Just as HE Pleases, so every thin does have a Body as to what type it is that is a different thing. Shimmer go read the account of Elijah where the angels were fighting fro Israel and when Elighia ask God to open the Lads eyes to see them he definitely saw them they did have bodies. There exists spectrum's of light we can not see with our Physical bodies unless God opens our eyes to them, but never the less they do exist. JA is wrong by saying Angels created their Own Bodies that simply is not true they can no more create there own bodies then we can. There is ONLY ONE CREATOR and that is GOD the FATHER, He along is the CREATOR of (ALL) Things IN heaven and Earth. IMO peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Thanks Gene, I agree. Angels have to have some type of body, its just we cant see them with our own eyes. Though it says spirits dont have flesh and bones, they still have shape and form. All has been created by God, all beings have been given a body of some type or form, as it says in scripture, I agree Gene.Nephilim:
In the Hebrew it comes from the word, “nephal.” It means “the fallen ones” and that’s
the term used, don’t confuse that with the fallen angels. The fallen angels, according to Genesis
6, cohabitated with human women to produce a hybrid offspring that are called, in the Hebrew,
“the Nephilim.” In the Septuagint version of the Old Testament, the translation of the Old
Testament into Greek, they use the word, “gigantus” which is transliterated “giants”. And they
did happen to be giants, but that’s not what the word means. The word actually means, in the
Greek, “the Earth born.” And so, from the Greek point of view, they’re the Earth born. From the
Hebrew point of view they’re the fallen ones. But either way they’re pointing to a hybrid, and it
apparently was part of Satan’s plan to contaminate the Messianic line.from here:
http://www.sidroth.org/site….ID=2101For a video interview of Chuck Missler discussing the Nephilim you can go here:
http://www.sidroth.org/site….bbr=tv_
It is something to think about!
EnjoyKathi, that has things which arent true. It says …quote..“It was part of Satan’s plan to contaminate the Messianic line.”..unquote…..WHERE did they get that from ? No. Stick with scripture and facts such as medical evidence etc.
Shimmer,
This guy has many facts and is very knowledgeable, he has far more knowledge on this matter than I do that's for sure!
You might learn something from watching the video or reading through the pdf. It doesn't matter to me if you do though. Someone may be interested enough to learn something. It is loaded with research!I wouldn't put it past satan to want to contaminate the Messianic line at all! You asked where I got that from…I listed the source.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 22 2010,07:55) You say we have not anwered your (THROUGH CHRIST ) Question when in fact it has be answred many times by me and Martian and JA,
I'm sorry Gene,I didn't hear you……….where is the post where JA answered my purple question again?
mike
Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 22 2010,04:49) You don't believe that the Angels created bodies for themselves before they were able to procreate only because you want to say that 'Angels' procreate. No more than for that reason.
No JA. The reason I don't believe it is because it is not said in the scriptures. Moses never says the angels “created bodies for themselves” and THEN took human woman, does he?Shimmer beat me to the punch on this one when she asked, “Where does it say that?”
JA, you can't just claim things as fact when they are not. If you were to say, “I think” or “IMO”, then it would be okay to offer your opinion on anything. But you often claim your opinions as if they are the word of God Himself.
You can't expect us to believe what you claim JUST because JA is claiming it, can you? You must have scriptural support, right?
mike
Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 22 2010,08:09) And JA, you said to Mike, Quote Funny how the Nephilim looked liked humans but more powerful and big, giant…the poor women, did they survive the birth, or did the Nephilim 'burst out of the womb', 'Alien, …the movie…, style'
In Korea, many women are 'tiny'. When the Americans went over, they litterally killed many women in childbirth because thier union with the korean women resulted in babies too big to come out naturally.
See what happens with bad translations…theres no mention of the word Giant/Giants at all, in regards to Nephilum.
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword….nend=73Only..
Genesis 6
The fallen ones were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when sons of God come in unto daughters of men, and they have borne to them — they are the heroes, who, from of old, are the men of name.No mention of Giants, not that I can find, though people say that, I cant find it in scripture that they were Giants at all.
Hi Shimmer,Numbers 13:31-33 NIV
31 But the men who had gone up with him said, “We can’t attack those people; they are stronger than we are.” 32 And they spread among the Israelites a bad report about the land they had explored. They said, “The land we explored devours those living in it. All the people we saw there are of great size. 33 We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them.”mike
Pierre,
There is a Hebrew interpretation that is God’s interpretation and that interpretation was called Christian first at Antioch. Another case in which something of God’s is also attributed to others is Paul’s letters as Paul is the instrument God used to write those letters. Be careful not to be a fault finder.
You missed the fact that Paul is making the point that not all flesh is alike as you fail to apply that fact to your understanding of 1 Corinthians 15:50 which is obviously not speaking of all flesh and blood as it would render argument about flesh irrelevant. Why would God waste his words on a pointless argument?
You also disregard God’s words through Paul when he stated a man yet in his corrupt flesh can either enter the third heaven physically or non-physically.
This is not a wise course to follow.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 22 2010,09:33) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 22 2010,07:55) You say we have not anwered your (THROUGH CHRIST ) Question when in fact it has be answred many times by me and Martian and JA,
I'm sorry Gene,I didn't hear you……….where is the post where JA answered my purple question again?
mike
Mike………….Come now you have accused me and Martian and JA of not answering you questions and I know i and Martian and JA Have many times. Again you using the diversion tactic you are so good at to divert from the truth of what is said in response to you just as you are doing here. You need to go back and reread them you may be surprised at how many many times you were answered. IMOpeace and love……………………………..gene
Shimmer,
To see Angels, they must 'take the form' of something visible.
Yes, something visible. The most obvious form is that of Man. So they Angels would 'almost' exactly like a human…it would be perceptable that they were not human by their demeaner but many would not care to test their judgement. An Angel from God would be righteous in it's actions…it only does that which it is sent to do, so it would be determined only to carry out it's task, to not dally, would not normally need to eat, drink, toilet, rest, sleep, engage in idle worldly chitterchat as a normal human stranger would. Sngels arereluctant to give their name for fear the human may try to worship them, or glorify them….Angels can become fully humanoid in human clothing, or arrayed in white, and with or without wings.
Gene has some weird 'Mikeboll' idea that invisible Angels have a body…this is ridiculous seeing they exist in higher heavens where Jesus plainly says that flesh and blood cannot exist. The simple reason, and i won't push the point, is that noone her, except Kerwin,… on this point…can understand Dimensions…what did you do in School? Did you not learn anything other than basic math to infant grade….then why poopooh another who has a greater understanding…why would a junior grade student argue with a Geography professor because the junior grade student was taught that the world was as round asa ball and the professor says that's not quite true, it's flatter at the poles..'no' says the student, my school teacher told me it's round just like a ball and i saw a model of it in the classroom and it fell down and it rolled just like a ball….the professor sighs and walks away…asking the student, ''What is the value of 'pi'?''
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