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Hi Gene,
So it is your understanding that instead of dying and going to Sheol, Elijah has been floating around in our atmosphere for thousands of years? Why? For what purpose?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 06 2012,08:02) Quote (terraricca @ May 04 2012,23:31) Mike If this would be the case,then Paul lied wen he said that Christ is the first resurrected from the dead,
Not if Elijah never “tasted death” in the first place, like Jesus did.Quote (terraricca @ May 04 2012,23:31) You may argue that Ilijah never died ,but you can not go to heaven without dying in the flesh,because no flesh can go their,
Some will be transformed in the twinkling of an eye. The flesh bodies of those ones don't decay, but are transformed. Why could this same thing not have happened with Elijah?Quote (terraricca @ May 04 2012,23:31) And assuming you are right then God also lied wen he said that the soul that sin is the soul that dies,and all men have sin ,not even one ,and still was in need for Christ sacrifice,the whole world was waiting for this,
Surely if Jesus had authority to forgive sins on earth (BEFORE he died as a sacrifice), then his God had authority to forgive Elijah's sins and take him to heaven.Quote (terraricca @ May 04 2012,23:31) I do believe that the souls of the righteous are waiting close to God for the time of the first resurrection,and I would not call this the Sheol or grave,because those thing are for the flesh not for the soul,
Sheol is the resting place of the souls awaiting resurrection – not the flesh. The flesh decays.Pierre, if the scripture says that God took Elijah “up to heaven”, then I have no choice but to believe that God took Elijah up to heaven.
It is not for me (or you) to accuse God of lying because He chose to make an exception for a truly exceptional servant of His.
peace,
mike
MikeMoses died,no body was found ,
Jas 5:17 Elijah was a man just like us. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years.
so only Elijah is in question did he went to God in heaven but it does not say that right ,???
LK 9:27 “But I say to you truthfully, there are some of those standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God.”
The Transfiguration
LK 9:28 Some eight days after these sayings, He took along Peter and John and James, and went up on the mountain to pray.
LK 9:29 And while He was praying, the appearance of His face became different, and His clothing became white and gleaming.
LK 9:30 And behold, two men were talking with Him; and they were Moses and Elijah,
LK 9:31 who, appearing in glory, were speaking of His departure which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem.how did they knew that it was Moses and Elijah
they never saw them in the flesh ,
Lk 1:17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
is this not addressed to Christ
did you compere other manuscripts on this
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 06 2012,13:22) Hi T,
John is identified spiritually as Elijah.
Do you believe Jesus?
Nyes I do ,it is true
Mike
I believe what happen to Enoch was the same as Elijah
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.
I also believe that anyone attaining the faith of those men would also receive the same experience ,the apostles were men like that ,
and yet Elisha ,he died from illness ,was he less worthy than Elijah
Moses we know was an picture of Christ the greater prophet and Elijah was a picture of John the Baptist (all according to scriptures)
was it for those reason that there body was never found
and Jesus said from all the men born from women John the baptist is the greatest and yet he died by execution .
so I may not understand all things but I can not see why those two men would be in heaven before the dead of Christ ,their SOUL yes but living with a new heavenly body NO,
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 06 2012,08:02) Hi t, John 3:13
No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
Hi Nick:The scriptures show Enoch and Elijah going up to heaven, and but no one had ascended into heaven from the dead before Jesus. He is “the firstborn from the dead”.
The scripture states the Enoch was translated that he should not taste of death.
Quote Hbr 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Nick Hassan @ May 06 2012,08:48) Hi 94,
It does say NO MAN HAS ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN
Death is not mentioned
True. But Enoch and Elijah went somewhere.Quote 2Ki 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, [there appeared] a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Nick Hassan @ May 06 2012,15:02) Hi t, John 3:13
No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
Nthank you ,this is a good verse , descriptive of who is first ,
I still believe that only the souls of Enoch and Moses and Elijah were taken to the bosom of God to wait for the time that Christ had finish his work,and give them live again ,by receiving a new body a spiritual body
Quote (terraricca @ May 06 2012,05:09) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 06 2012,15:02) Hi t, John 3:13
No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
Nthank you ,this is a good verse , descriptive of who is first ,
I still believe that only the souls of Enoch and Moses and Elijah were taken to the bosom of God to wait for the time that Christ had finish his work,and give them live again ,by receiving a new body a spiritual body
Pierre and Nick;God descended from heaven to dwell in Jesus.
Jesus ascended to heaven to dwell in God.
How else are they continually able to dwell in one another?Quote (kerwin @ May 06 2012,18:08) Quote (terraricca @ May 06 2012,05:09) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 06 2012,15:02) Hi t, John 3:13
No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
Nthank you ,this is a good verse , descriptive of who is first ,
I still believe that only the souls of Enoch and Moses and Elijah were taken to the bosom of God to wait for the time that Christ had finish his work,and give them live again ,by receiving a new body a spiritual body
Pierre and Nick;God descended from heaven to dwell in Jesus.
Jesus ascended to heaven to dwell in God.
How else are they continually able to dwell in one another?
Kerwinyou can not be more false in your doctrine than this ,
you must be on drugs ,because their is no scriptures that even give birth to the taught of it ,create imaginary concepts does not make things true ,go see stars war movie ” and believe it is a true story
? be real manQuote (Nick Hassan @ May 06 2012,06:09) Hi KW,
Yes as Spirit.
Nick;Through the Spirit is more accurate.
1 Corinthians 3:16
King James Version (KJV)16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
and
Ephesians 2:22
King James Version (KJV)22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 06 2012,09:23) Hi 94,
Yep up into the heavens and then to rest with their brothers.
“to rest with their brothers”? scripture please?T;
It is written:
John 14:10
King James Version (KJV)10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
and
John 14:11
King James Version (KJV)
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
The throne of God is located in heaven while Jesus is physically on earth. In order for God the be in Jesus he had to descend from heaven though he still sits on his throne. In order for Jesus to be in God he has to ascend to heaven even though he remains physically on earth.
Pierre, Nick, Mike, and Marty;
John 3
King James Version (KJV)12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:The hypothesis to be tested is:
Quote And no man hath (physically) ascended up to heaven, but he that (physically) came down from heaven, even the Son of man which (physically) is in heaven. Certain people hypothesize that physically is inferred by this passage; but is it?
The flaws to that hypothesis is that it claims Jesus has physically ascended to heaven and is physically in heaven while he is physically on earth.
Even if you drop out the words “even the Son of man which is in heaven” you have Jesus claiming to already have physically ascended to heaven; even though he had not sacrificed himself yet.
By testing spirits it is revealed that the hypothesis that Jesus is speaking of the physical body is clearly false.
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