Do men ever go to heaven?

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
Jesus simplified matters in Jn 16.

God can and will forgive ALL sin[except against His Spirit]
That forgiveness is found in repentance and water baptism[1Peter3, Acts 2]
For those in Jesus we have an advocate when we slip who will intercede for us[1Jn1]

So for men the only sin is unbelief and the associated rebellion against obedience to the commands of jn3.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ April 25 2012,08:32)

K God does not catch bad fish only good fish,do you not know that we live in a separation age this is done trough the written word of God Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. Jn 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

Pierre,

Jesus taught that God catches both good and bad fish with his net; for it is written:

Matthew 13:47-50
King James Version (KJV)

47Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

It is not yet time to sever the wicked from the just.

[NickHassan]

Yes KW,
That is the garnering of the remnant sheep just before the Judgement.

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 25 2012,10:22)

Yes KW, That is the garnering of the remnant sheep just before the Judgement.

Nick;

Isn't God's net, his word; for it is written:

Isaiah 55:11
King James Version (KJV)

11So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Some will utter it with their mouth but their heart will be far from him while others will believe with their heart and so reap a bountiful harvest.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Most honest searchers remain frustrated by the easier carnal options possible in the sacred Word.
They stumble because, unlike with Peter, the Father has not shown them the truth.

You MUST BE BORN AGAIN

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ April 25 2012,08:46)

N Quote Unless you repent you will all likewise perish. jn 16.9 “..concerning sin because they do not believe in me” explain this to me

Pierre,

If you believe that Jesus is from God then you believe his words are God's Word.  You therefore believe that those that deeply desire to be righteous as God is righteous will become so.  That belief and the belief in all of Jesus' teachings will lead to you getting and wearing a new man that is like God in true righteousness and holiness.  It is those that live by the desires of the Spirit that put on the new man.  There is no continuing to sin in the new man.

It is written:

1 John 3:6
King James Version (KJV)

6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,

Only the Holy Spirit can make men holy.

The reason that those in Christ sin not is that Christ Jesus KEEPS THEM.[1Jn 5.18]
That does not mean it is impossible to do so but the Shepherd helps us not to.

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 25 2012,11:20)

Hi KW, Only the Holy Spirit can make men holy. The reason that those in Christ sin not is that Christ Jesus KEEPS THEM.[1Jn 5.18] That does not mean it is impossible to do so but the Shepherd helps us not to.

Nick,

When you are in both God and Jesus you will not sin.

If you sin you have put off the new man and put on the old and it is time to confess your sins even as it it is written:

1 John 1:9
King James Version (KJV)

9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

In this way we return to him.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 25 2012,20:58)

Hi T, Jesus simplified matters in Jn 16. God can and will forgive ALL sin[except against His Spirit] That forgiveness is found in repentance and water baptism[1Peter3, Acts 2] For those in Jesus we have an advocate when we slip who will intercede for us[1Jn1] So for men the only sin is unbelief and the associated rebellion against obedience to the commands of jn3.

N

it says the sin against the holy spirit ,can not be forgiven,

and even so that God will forgive it will be not without judgement ,and so if you have no truth in you this means that you are not a elected one ,that will take part in the first resurrection,

Jesus only intercede for those who are his ,right ?? yes

not all that says LORD ,LORD will be his

[GeneBalthrop]

To all………..No one has risen from the Grave to eternal Life yet but Jesus, all who have died are waiting a “RESURRECTION” from the GRAVE. The book of Hebrews plainly shows this ,

Heb 11:3……….And these ALL , having obtained a good report through faith, recieved “NOT” the promise; 40, God having provided some better thing for us, that they “without us” should not be made perfect

Heb 11:13…….These all “DIED” in faith “NOT” having recieved the promises

Again no one has risen to eternal Life yet but Jesus alone and that includes all the saints and Patriarchs of old. All are waiting for the First resurrection that will witness the redemption of their bodies. as Paul said.

peace and love to you all……………………..gene

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ April 25 2012,22:15)

Quote (terraria @ April 25 2012,08:32) K God does not catch bad fish only good fish,do you not know that we live in a separation age this is done trough the written word of God Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. Jn 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Pierre, Jesus taught that God catches both good and bad fish with his net; for it is written: Matthew 13:47-50 King James Version (KJV) 47Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: 48Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. 49So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, 50And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. It is not yet time to sever the wicked from the just.

K

you miss quoting scriptures,the entire world of men is part of Gods creation and is under the sin of Adam,

so God send his son at last to save men ,men that will accept the teaching of his son ,all others at the final end will be destroyed,

it is Christ disciples that were send out to find those who would accept Gods way,and so are symbolically fishing in the waters of men ,this is also true to true christians at all times,

for their are two resurrection the first for those who belong to Christ ,(144k + the great crowed ) but all have to do Gods will and be whorty of the son and God grace ,

the others will be resurrected in the second resurrection and here all will be judged to what they have done ,

[kerwin]

Pierre,

I am speaking of the parable of the kingdom as a fishing net.  That net is being cast first to the house of Israel then it is being swept through the Gentile houses.   It is the message of the good news to which both sheep and goats respond; but the goats are not sincere or do not persevere in what they hear.

Jesus teaches only two resurrections one of the righteous and the other of the wicked.  After the righteous dead rise to descend with Jesus and their still living brethren are changed, they both will meet with Jesus in the clouds; the residents of the new Jerusalem.  The ungodly, but no righteous, will be left outside, nor is the resurrection of the wicked dead yet mentioned.

1 Thessalonians 4
King James Version (KJV)

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
There is no mention of the goats having heard the gospel, believed or made any sort of commitment in Mt 25,
This is God taking his second crop from earth, mercy towards those who showed their hearts were in the right place by their mercy towards the brothers of Jesus Christ.

[kerwin]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 25 2012,20:29)

To all………..No one has risen from the Grave to eternal Life yet but Jesus, all who have died are waiting a “RESURRECTION” from the GRAVE. The book of Hebrews plainly shows this , Heb 11:3……….And these  ALL , having obtained a good report through faith, recieved “NOT” the promise; 40, God having provided some better thing for us, that they  “without us”  should not be made perfect Heb 11:13…….These all “DIED” in faith “NOT” having recieved the promises Again no one has risen to eternal Life yet but Jesus alone and that includes all the saints and Patriarchs of old. All are waiting for the First resurrection that will witness the redemption of their bodies. as Paul said. peace and love to you all……………………..gene

Gene,

You are discounting that Scripture sometimes speaks in general and thus what it states may not apply to specific instances.

Here are two that witness to what I state:

Matthew 2:3
King James Version (KJV)

3When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.

Matthew 3:5
King James Version (KJV)

5Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,

Giving these witnesses your premise that “all” means every single case is unsound.

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 26 2012,01:17)

Hi KW, There is no mention of the goats having heard the gospel, believed or made any sort of commitment in Mt 25, This is God taking his second crop from earth, mercy towards those who showed their hearts were in the right place by their mercy towards the brothers of Jesus Christ.

Nick,

Did you miss the fact they call Jesus, Lord in verse 44 of Matthew 25.  It is clearly the general model of the goat that is speaking so it may not apply is specific instances.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Jesus is Lord of ALL.[acts 10.36]
Those who stand before him will have no doubt of this fact.

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 26 2012,02:07)

Hi KW, Jesus is Lord of ALL.[acts 10.36] Those who stand before him will have no doubt of this fact.

Nick;

It is written:

Philippians 2
King James Version (KJV)

9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Yes all will eventually.
But acknowledging that fact saves nobody.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (kerwin @ April 26 2012,06:31)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 25 2012,20:29) To all………..No one has risen from the Grave to eternal Life yet but Jesus, all who have died are waiting a “RESURRECTION” from the GRAVE. The book of Hebrews plainly shows this , Heb 11:3……….And these  ALL , having obtained a good report through faith, recieved “NOT” the promise; 40, God having provided some better thing for us, that they  “without us”  should not be made perfect Heb 11:13…….These all “DIED” in faith “NOT” having recieved the promises Again no one has risen to eternal Life yet but Jesus alone and that includes all the saints and Patriarchs of old. All are waiting for the First resurrection that will witness the redemption of their bodies. as Paul said. peace and love to you all……………………..gene Gene, You are discounting that Scripture sometimes speaks in general and thus what it states may not apply to specific instances. Here are two that witness to what I state: Matthew 2:3 King James Version (KJV) 3When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. Matthew 3:5 King James Version (KJV) 5Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, Giving these witnesses your premise that “all” means every single case is unsound.

Kerwin…………I did not write those scriptures i just quoted them, it is not me that you are indifference with it is those scriptures brother. The word ALL is inclusive it is not Open ended. When we are told they ALL DIED and Have not recieve the Promise then we need to believe it and try to adjust our understanding to fit those plain scriptures IMO>

peace and love to you brother……………………………………..gene

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ April 26 2012,12:43)

Pierre, I am speaking of the parable of the kingdom as a fishing net.  That net is being cast first to the house of Israel then it is being swept through the Gentile houses.   It is the message of the good news to which both sheep and goats respond; but the goats are not sincere or do not persevere in what they hear. Jesus teaches only two resurrections one of the righteous and the other of the wicked.  After the righteous dead rise to descend with Jesus and their still living brethren are changed, they both will meet with Jesus in the clouds; the residents of the new Jerusalem.  The ungodly, but no righteous, will be left outside, nor is the resurrection of the wicked dead yet mentioned. 1 Thessalonians 4 King James Version (KJV) 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

K

you only read some of the scriptures ,you should consider all scriptures ,

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