Do men ever go to heaven?

[mikeboll64]

Topical.  (I copied and pasted this post from David from another “heaven” thread, because it answers a lot of questions scripturally.)

While the Bible certainly does hold out that the meek will inherit the earth (Ps 37:11,29; mat 5:5, etc) I believe there is ample evidence for some going to heaven, specifically, the chosen ones who would rule over those on the earth, or in other words, those who make up the kingdom (government) of which Jesus is head.

PHILIPPIANS 3:20-21
“As for us, OUR CITIZENSHIP EXISTS IN THE HEAVENS . . .the Lord Jesus Christ, who WILL REFASHION OUR HUMILIATED BODY to be conformed to HIS GLORIOUS BODY . . . .”

The REASON for the new body the new spirit body, is that “flesh and blood cannot inherit” the kingdom.

1 CORINTHIANS 15:40, 42-44, 47-50
“There are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies; but THE GLORY OF THE HEAVENLY BODIES IS ONE SORT, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort. . . . .So also is the resurrection of the dead. . . . It is sown a physical body, it is raised up A SPIRITUAL BODY. . . . The first man [Adam] is out of the earth and made of dust; the second man [Jesus Christ] is out of heaven. As the one made of dust is, so those made of dust are also; and as the heavenly one is, so those who are heavenly are also. And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, WE SHALL BEAR ALSO THE IMAGE OF THE HEAVENLY ONE. HOWEVER, THIS I SAY, BROTHERS, THAT FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT GOD’S KINGDOM.”

Note that it says “the glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort.”  So in Philippians 3, where we are told that Jesus would refashion their bodies to conform to his “glorious body,” what conclusion should be drawn?

1 CORINTHIANS 15:53
“For this which is corruptible must PUT ON INCORRUPTION, and this which is mortal must put on immortality.”

God has given such Christians the living hope of “an incorruptible and undefiled and unfading inheritance . . . reserved in the heavens.” (1Pe 1:3, 4, 18, 19; compare 1Co 9:25.)

2 PETER 1:4
“Through these things he has freely given us the precious and very grand promises, that through these you may become SHARERS IN DIVINE NATURE, having ESCAPED FROM THE CORRUPTION that is in the world through lust.”

Persons whom God calls to heaven will be immortal, incorruptible spirit persons, “sharers in divine nature.” (1 Cor. 15:42-44, 53; 2 Pet. 1:4) Since “flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom,” these individuals must undergo a change. (1 Cor. 15:50) They must be given a “spiritual body.” (1 Cor 15:44) Are not spirit bodies designed to live in the spirit realm, heaven?

JOHN 3:3-6
“Unless anyone is BORN AGAIN, he cannot see the kingdom of God. . . . Unless anyone is born from water and spirit, he cannot ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD. What has been born from the flesh is flesh, and what has been born from the spirit is spirit.””

Being born again is essential to enter God’s government.  The apostle Peter explains the purpose of the new birth in this way:

1 PETER 1:3,4,23
“According to [God’s] great mercy he gave us a NEW BIRTH to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an incorruptible and undefiled and unfading INHERITANCE. IT IS RESERVED IN THE HEAVENS FOR YOU. . . .For you have been given a NEW BIRTH, not by corruptible, but by incorruptible [reproductive] seed, through the word of [the] living and enduring God.”

Such ones are born again while yet in the flesh, that is, granted the position of spiritual sons of God, born of “incorruptible reproductive seed,” and their inheritance “is reserved in the heavens.” (Compare 1Jo 3:1,9; col 1:5.)

EPHESIANS 1:3-5
“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for he has blessed us with every spiritual blessing IN THE HEAVENLY PLACES IN UNION WITH CHRIST, just as he chose us in union with him before the founding of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love. For he foreordained us to the ADOPTION through Jesus Christ as sons to himself,”
EPHESIANS 2:6
“and he raised us up together and SEATED US TOGETHER IN THE HEAVENLY PLACES in union with Christ Jesus,”

The apostle Paul in his letter to the Ephesians speaks of Christians then living on earth as though they were already enjoying a heavenly position, being raised up and “seated . . . together in the heavenly places in union with Christ Jesus.” (Eph 1:3; 2:6) The context shows that anointed Christians are so viewed by God because of his having ‘assigned them as heirs’ with his Son in the heavenly inheritance. While yet on earth, they have been exalted, or ‘lifted up,’ by such assignment. (Eph 1:11, 18-20; 2:4-7, 22)

In the following scripture, Paul goes on to show that those persons adopted to be heavenly sons are referred to as “the things in the heavens.”
EPHESIANS 1:9-11
“he made known to us the sacred secret of his will. It is according to his good pleasure which he purposed in himself for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times, namely, TO GATHER ALL THINGS TOGETHER again in the Christ, THE THINGS IN THE HEAVENS and THE THINGS ON THE EARTH. [Yes,] in him, in union with whom we were also assigned as heirs,”
COLOSSIANS 1:20
“and through him to reconcile again to himself all [other] things by making peace through the blood [he shed] on the torture stake, no matter whether they are the things upon the earth OR the things in the heavens.”

Paul also explains that this reconciliation involves two distinct groups of individuals, namely, “the things in the heavens” and “the things upon the earth.”
The first stage of God’s “administration” is the gathering together again of “the things in the heavens,” preparing the congregation of Kingdom heirs who are to live in the heavens under Jesus Christ as the spiritual Head. (Ro 8:16, 17; Eph 1:11; 1Pe 1:4)

ROMANS 8:16-17
“The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. If, then, we are children, we are also HEIRS: heirs indeed of God, but JOINT HEIRS WITH CHRIST, provided we suffer together that we may also be GLORIFIED TOGETHER.”

How will God’s children be “glorified together”?  
1 JOHN 3:2
“Beloved ones, now we are children of God, BUT AS YET IT HAS NOT BEEN MADE MANIFEST WHAT WE SHALL BE. We do know that whenever he is made manifest WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM, because WE SHALL SEE HIM JUST AS HE IS.”
(Compare 1 Joh 3:3; Mt 5:8; Rev 22:4; 1 Cor 13:12)  Jehovah God, Christ Jesus and the angels all have spirit bodies.  What their bodies look like we do not know.  But John did know that they, the “children of God” would “be like him,” and that at that time, they “shall see him just as he is.”  
Yet, notice these scriptures:
EXODUS 33:20
“You are not able to see my face, because no MAN may see me and yet live.””
1 JOHN 4:12
“At no time has anyone beheld God.”
If no “man” may see God and yet live, then the children of God cannot be men when they become “like him” and “see him just as he is,” can they?  As Philippians 3:21 says of the anointed, Christ “will refashion our humiliated body to be conformed to his glorious body.”

When the apostle Paul had only a glimpse of the manifestation of Jesus Christ after Jesus’ resurrection, he fell to the ground and was blinded by the brilliance, a miracle being required to restore his sight. (Ac 9:3-5, 17, 18; 26:13, 14) Likewise, angels are far more powerful than men. (2Pe 2:11) They are glorious, brilliant ones and have appeared as such in physical manifestations. (Mt 28:2-4; Lu 2:9) THESE SPIRIT SONS OF GOD HAVE VISION STRONG ENOUGH TO SEE AND ENDURE THE BRILLIANCE OF THE ALMIGHTY GOD.
(Lu 1:19; Mt 18:10.)  This is because they have spirit bodies, even as the anointed who “shall see him just as he is” are to be raised with “a spiritual body.” (1 Cor 15:42)
It will be a body conformed to the “glorious body” of Jesus Christ (Php 3:21), who is “the image of the invisible God,” “the reflection of his glory and the exact representation of his very being.” (Col 1:15; Heb 1:3)

PHILIPPIANS 3:14
“I am pursuing down toward the goal for THE PRIZE OF THE UPWARD CALL of God by means of Christ Jesus.” (Compare Ro 1:7; 8:30; 2 Tim 1:9; Jude 1:1)
HEBREWS 3:1
“Consequently, holy brothers, PARTAKERS OF THE HEAVENLY CALLING, consider the apostle and high priest whom we confess—Jesus.” (Compare Rom 8:30)
Doesn't this indicate that some will have “the prize of the upward call,” and be partakers of a heavenly calling?  The dictionaries I checked indicated that a “calling” is:
1. impulse or desire to follow or do a particular job; a strong urge to follow a particular career or do a particular type of work.
2. a job, profession, occupation or vocation.
The Bible tells us that the “holy ones” would act as priests and judges and rule as kings with Christ.  This is their calling.  It is a heavenly “upward call.”

These “holy ones” do not exercise kingly authority while on earth but must await their being united with Christ in the heavens.
EPHESIANS 1:18-21
“the eyes of your heart having been enlightened, that you may know what is THE HOPE TO WHICH HE CALLED YOU, what the glorious riches are which he holds as an INHERITANCE FOR THE HOLY ONES, and what the surpassing greatness of his power is toward us believers. IT IS ACCORDING TO THE OPERATION of the mightiness of his strength, with which HE HAS OPERATED IN THE CASE OF THE CHRIST when he raised him up from the dead and seated him AT HIS RIGHT HAND in the HEAVENLY PLACES, far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name named, not only in this system of things, but also in that to come.”

The incorruptible spiritual body is referred to as a house.  Notice where it is said to be:
2 CORINTHIANS 5:1
“For we know that if our earthly house [human body], this tent, should be dissolved, we are to have a building from God, A HOUSE NOT MADE WITH HANDS, everlasting IN THE HEAVENS.  For in this dwelling house [human body] we do indeed groan, earnestly DESIRING TO PUT ON THE ONE FOR US FROM HEAVEN, so that, having really put it on, we shall not be found naked. In fact, we who are in this tent groan, being weighed down; because we want, not to put it off, but to put on the other, that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.”
(Compare 2 Pet 1:13,14; 2 Tim 4:6)
Paul used the metaphor of a tent when speaking of the human bodies of spirit-begotten Christians. A collapsible tent is a more fragile and temporary dwelling than a normal house. Though existing on earth in a mortal body of flesh, the Christians who have the spirit as a token of the heavenly life to come look forward to “a building from God,” a heavenly body that is everlasting, incorruptible.

2 CORINTHIANS 3:17-18
“Now Jehovah is the Spirit; and where the spirit of Jehovah is, there is freedom. And all of us, while we with unveiled faces reflect like mirrors the glory of Jehovah, are TRANSFORMED INTO THE SAME IMAGE FROM GLORY TO GLORY, exactly as done by Jehovah [the] Spirit.”
1 CORINTHIANS 13:12
“For at present we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face to face. At present I know partially, but then I shall know accurately even as I am accurately known.”

ACTS 2:34
“Actually David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand,”
Why the need to say this if no one ever ascends to heaven?  Why say the obvious?  If no one ever goes to heaven, what is the point of saying this?  It would be pointless.  If it is obvious that no one goes to heaven, of course David didn't go to heaven.  Of course, everyone didn't go.  So why specify that David didn't go?

JOHN 3:13
“Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man.”
(Until the new covenant was made for a heavenly kingdom, where men would serve as joint heirs with Christ, no one had ascended into heaven.)  

The Scriptures show that Christ Jesus was the first one to ascend from earth to the heavens of God’s presence. (1Co 15:20; Heb 9:24) By such ascension and his presentation of his ransom sacrifice there, he ‘opened the way’ for those who would follow—the spirit-begotten members of his congregation. (Joh 14:2, 3; Heb 6:19, 20; 10:19, 20) In their resurrection these must bear “the image of the heavenly one,” Christ Jesus, in order to ascend to the heavens of the spirit plane, for “flesh and blood” cannot inherit that heavenly Kingdom.—1Co 15:42-50.

These ones who go to heaven are called a “little flock” for they do not make up all the ones who will be blessed by Jehovah with salvation.  They are the minority, the “chosen ones” who have been chosen for a specific purpose to be in heaven–to rule and judge as kings and priests with Christ over the earth.
(God’s Word further identifies this little flock by various names, such as “anointed” ones (2 Cor. 1:21); “body” of Christ (Eph. 1:22, 23); “congregation of God” (Gal. 1:13); “heirs . . . of God” (Rom. 8:17); “holy nation” (1 Pet. 2:9); “holy ones” (1 Cor. 1:2); “holy priesthood” (1 Pet. 2:5); “Israel of God” (Gal. 6:16); “new creation” (2 Cor. 5:17); “royal palace of David” (Acts 15:16); “sons of the kingdom” (Matt. 13:38); “sealed . . . sons of Israel” (Rev. 7:4); and “temple of the holy spirit” (1 Cor. 6:19).

LUKE 12:32
“Have no fear, LITTLE FLOCK, because Your Father has approved of GIVING YOU THE KINGDOM.”  
It is just a little flock, a minority that receive the kingdom, or inherit the kingdom (government.)  Much like today, it is just a minority that make up our governments.  Yet, we can all benefit from them.

But these that make up the little flock are not the only ones spoken of.
JOHN 10:16
““And I have OTHER SHEEP, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.”

Also, in Revelation, we see two groups, one that is said to number 144,000 (a little number) who have been “BOUGHT FROM THE EARTH.”  (Rev 14:1,3; 7:4) And then another group is mentioned, a “great crowd, which no man was able to number.” (Rev 7:9)

We have a little group or little flock of ones who will be going to heaven to rule over the earth as kings.  We know that Revelation holds out that some will rule as kings.  (Rev 20:4,5 for example)  But of what possible need is it that all should rule as kings and priests?  Kings need ones to rule over.  Hence, the “great crowd”, or the “other sheep.”

david

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
So no scriptures that say any men will make their abode in heaven.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
It is a JW dogma that some [the elect] will be living in heaven but the common ones will have to make do with earth.

JW dogmas are pure folly

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 16 2012,14:37)

Hi MB, So no scriptures that say any men will make their abode in heaven.

N

only 144k are redeemed to live in heaven

[kerwin]

To all:

Lets examine David's words to the effect:

While the Bible certainly does hold out that the meek will inherit the earth

Here is the definition concordances.org gives.

Quote

This difficult-to-translate root (pra-) means more than “meek.” Biblical meekness is not weakness but rather refers to exercising God's strength under His control – i.e. demonstrating power without undue harshness.

a closely matching definition from .thefreedictionary.com is:

meek= patient, long-suffering, or submissive in disposition or nature; humble

What person that walks by the spirit of God is not meek as meekness is one of the fruits of the Spirit; since love is patient, long suffering, submissive to God, and humble?

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ April 16 2012,05:47)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 16 2012,14:37) Hi MB, So no scriptures that say any men will make their abode in heaven. N only 144k are redeemed to live in heaven

Pierre,

You are deceived because you do not understand language of Scripture.

God states he speaks in parables; he does not always state this is a parable. Prophecy is often spoken in the language of parables.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ April 16 2012,18:06)

Quote (terraricca @ April 16 2012,05:47) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 16 2012,14:37) Hi MB, So no scriptures that say any men will make their abode in heaven. N only 144k are redeemed to live in heaven Pierre, You are deceived because you do not understand language of Scripture. God states he speaks in parables; he does not always state this is a parable.  Prophecy is often spoken in the language of parables.

K

you are funny ,you believe that you holding the stick of decisions of what is and is not a parable ,but you do not ,

the scriptures are repeated twice ,it is said clearly ,so it is your opinion that you send to others ,I am not deceived by scriptures at all i trust them with my live ,Jesus also spoke in parables and said ::it is like ; or listen ;;or their was a;;;

I can not see that in Revelation do you

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 15 2012,14:42)

Hi, It is a JW dogma that some [the elect] will be living in heaven but the common ones will have to make do with earth. JW dogmas are pure folly

Instead of dismissing the info out of hand by labeling it “JW dogma”, why not discuss what was said?  Let's work through David's post so you can tell me where he went wrong, okay Nick?

David said:

Quote

PHILIPPIANS 3:20-21 “As for us, OUR CITIZENSHIP EXISTS IN THE HEAVENS . . .the Lord Jesus Christ, who WILL REFASHION OUR HUMILIATED BODY to be conformed to HIS GLORIOUS BODY . . . .” The REASON for the new spirit body, is that “flesh and blood cannot inherit” the kingdom.

With this I agree.  Please scripturally explain to me why you don't, Nick.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
None of them state that men will live in heaven.

[mikeboll64]

Sure they do, Nick.  Now, could you explain from scripture why David's words in my last post DON'T imply that men will exist in heaven?

Or will you run away scared from the discussion, spouting senseless one-liners as you go?  (After all, that is your m-o on this site.)

For example, explain to me what YOU think Paul meant by the words, “our citizenship exists in the heavens”.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
So it IMPLICATION you want us to agree with?
How could that help?

[mikeboll64]

Nick,

Once again, THIS is the question:

Can you explain to me what YOU think Paul meant by the words, “our citizenship exists in the heavens” in Phil 3?

Either explain, or remain silent on the issue.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Eph 2.6
Col 3.1

[mikeboll64]

Not an answer, Nick. I'll assume that you CANNOT answer, and wait for responses from people who are NOT AFRAID.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
You gave us Phil3 and the verses that witness to it's meaning are in Ephesians and Colossians.
Why did you not check them if you are an unbiased moderator?

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ April 16 2012,07:01)

Quote (kerwin @ April 16 2012,18:06) Quote (terraricca @ April 16 2012,05:47) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 16 2012,14:37) Hi MB, So no scriptures that say any men will make their abode in heaven. N only 144k are redeemed to live in heaven Pierre, You are deceived because you do not understand language of Scripture. God states he speaks in parables; he does not always state this is a parable.  Prophecy is often spoken in the language of parables. K you are funny ,you believe that you holding the stick of decisions of what is and is not a parable ,but you do not , the scriptures are repeated twice ,it is said clearly ,so it is your opinion that you send to others ,I am not deceived by scriptures at all i trust them with my live ,Jesus also spoke in parables and said ::it is like ; or listen ;;or their was a;;; I can not see that in Revelation do you

Pierre,

You are deceived by your lack of knowledge.

Why don't you seek to remedy it.

Scripture clearly reveals there was 12 Apostles of which one of the original fell and was replaced by another.

Revelations lists 12 tribes of which one of the original is missing to be taken by another.

That is clear symbolism.  Knowing that is symbolism you should humble yourself and listen to these words.

Quote

The number of the 144,000 heavenly souls marked with the “seal of the living God” in Revelation chapter 7.  Bible scholars both ancient and modern have interpreted this number as reflecting the symbolic perfection of redeemed man in terms of the “perfect” number 12 which signifies perfection of government in Scripture multiplied by divine order (Ten signifies divine order in scripture).  144,000 is the square of 12 times the cube of 10.

This[ is a Trinitarian Source and so is erroneous about the number three.  An Ancient Jewish source would be better.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 15 2012,20:03)

Hi MB, You gave us Phil3 and the verses that witness to it's meaning are in Ephesians and Colossians. Why did you not check them if you are an unbiased moderator?

Those scriptures SUPPORT my understanding of Phil 3, Nick. Please use real people words in a real people discussion, and EXPLAIN TO ME why you don't agree that Phil 3 speaks of the citizenship of men in heaven.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
What did you find when you compared the verses?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Phil 3
14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Do you think UPWARD implies heaven and IMPLICATION IS ENOUGH?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
How many implications make a truth??

[Author]

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