Did God die on the cross

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 22 2011,16:58)

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,09:30) A God begets a God A man begets a man Kathi, I noticed you used the phrase “God the Son” five times in the post to which I'm responding.  Where can we learn about “God the Son” in the scriptures?  And can we also learn about “God the Accuser” (Satan) there?  If not, why one and not the other? Also, THE God beget A god.  Jehovah surely didn't beget Himself, or even a part OF Himself.  He begot a Son. Just like THE Man beget A man.  Adam surely didn't beget himself, or even a part OF himself.  He begot a son. Surely you can tell the difference?

Mike,
If you can say 'the only begotten God/god' you can also say 'the only God/god who was begotten' and we know that the one who was begotten is an only begotten Son, so why play dumb here?  God/god the Son is a logical conclusion and I wrote it because you get so easily confused and often say something like “but how can He beget Himself.”  When I write “God the Son” you can save that question and know that I am making a distinction between God the Son and God the Father.

Jehovah the Father beget Jehovah the Son…not created but begotten from within.

I'm not interested in your word games, Mike.

Kathi

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 23 2011,20:52)

Pierre, What does it mean when the 'theos' is also called Jehovah? Kathi

kathi

and what is wrong with that ,Theos= the almighty =the father

there is no equal to the father so all other theos no matter if he is called son or not can not be call theos above the Almighty God (Theos)the father ,

just like an own of a plantation does not loses his power because he is making some one a manager ,or even president ,or what ever,stay real Kathi,all thing belong to God the creator ,Christ the son is his creation,

Pierre

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,21:06)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 22 2011,16:58) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,09:30) A God begets a God A man begets a man Kathi, I noticed you used the phrase “God the Son” five times in the post to which I'm responding.  Where can we learn about “God the Son” in the scriptures?  And can we also learn about “God the Accuser” (Satan) there?  If not, why one and not the other? Also, THE God beget A god.  Jehovah surely didn't beget Himself, or even a part OF Himself.  He begot a Son. Just like THE Man beget A man.  Adam surely didn't beget himself, or even a part OF himself.  He begot a son. Surely you can tell the difference? Mike, If you can say 'the only begotten God/god' you can also say 'the only God/god who was begotten' and we know that the one who was begotten is an only begotten Son, so why play dumb here?  God/god the Son is a logical conclusion and I wrote it because you get so easily confused and often say something like “but how can He beget Himself.”  When I write “God the Son” you can save that question and know that I am making a distinction between God the Son and God the Father. Jehovah the Father beget Jehovah the Son…not created but begotten from within. I'm not interested in your word games, Mike. Kathi

Whoa!  

Did I strike a nerve, Kathi?  From what I gathered in your post, there is NO scriptural evidence of any “God the Son”.  And according to your fancy footwork, we can call Jesus “God the Son” because he is called “god”, and he is a “son”, right?

Okay then, play fair across the board with that reasoning.  Satan is called “god” and is also called “the accuser”.  So let me hear you speak about “God the Accuser” once in a while, okay?  

Deborah was called “god”, and she was a judge over Israel for a time.  Shall we now refer to her as “God the Judge”?  And when certain angels in scripture are called “god”, shall we refer to them as “God the Angel”?  

Btw, who is this “Jehovah the Son”?  In what scripture do we read all about him?

Oh, and will you please address the last part of my post – the part I bolded and supersized for you?

[Wakeup]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,11:29)

Wakeup, Welcome to HN! You are right in that God cannot die…that is one reason why He begat His Son who is God like the Father God and referred to as the begotten God.  (The two are in unity as ONE God through their Holy Spirit.)  That way one of them could empty Himself and become something that COULD DIE (a fleshly man) while the other (the Father) would remain in complete control and not be empty of His power and authority…the begotten God became a man so that He COULD die for mankind.  It really is a marvelous story if you understand it.  To many people this is too hard to accept…the idea that God could die or would even empty Himself of whatever He needed to in order to lower Himself and become a fleshly servant…a helpless infant.  You miss the whole point of the incarnation to not believe that God, the begotten God (who was begotten before the ages) actually did lower Himself into flesh…I know that is amazing and too amazing for some to accept.  By love the Father sent the Son, who is the begotten God, to humble Himself to lowly flesh so that He COULD relate to man AND also DIE for man.  Praise to the Father and to the Son and their Holy Spirit! No hard feelings…it is all for good Kathi

Hi Lightenup.

Can you give me the scripture that says God empty himself please.Interesting to know.
thank you.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

kATHI

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 24 2011,19:34)

kATHI

Kathi.

[942767]

The following scripture states that there is but “One God”.

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

They are “one” in the spirit.

John 17:21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Lightenup]

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 24 2011,02:12)

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,11:29) Wakeup, Welcome to HN! You are right in that God cannot die…that is one reason why He begat His Son who is God like the Father God and referred to as the begotten God.  (The two are in unity as ONE God through their Holy Spirit.)  That way one of them could empty Himself and become something that COULD DIE (a fleshly man) while the other (the Father) would remain in complete control and not be empty of His power and authority…the begotten God became a man so that He COULD die for mankind.  It really is a marvelous story if you understand it.  To many people this is too hard to accept…the idea that God could die or would even empty Himself of whatever He needed to in order to lower Himself and become a fleshly servant…a helpless infant.  You miss the whole point of the incarnation to not believe that God, the begotten God (who was begotten before the ages) actually did lower Himself into flesh…I know that is amazing and too amazing for some to accept.  By love the Father sent the Son, who is the begotten God, to humble Himself to lowly flesh so that He COULD relate to man AND also DIE for man.  Praise to the Father and to the Son and their Holy Spirit! No hard feelings…it is all for good Kathi Hi Lightenup. Can you give me the scripture that says God empty himself please.Interesting to know. thank you. wakeup.

I can show you where the begotten God emptied Himself:

Phil 2:5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

There ya go,
God bless,
Kathi

[Lightenup]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2011,22:44)

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 23 2011,20:52) Pierre, What does it mean when the 'theos' is also called Jehovah? Kathi kathi and what is wrong with that ,Theos= the almighty =the father there is no equal to the father so all other theos no matter if he is called son or not can not be call theos above the Almighty God (Theos)the father , just like an own of a plantation does not loses his power because he is making some one a manager ,or even president ,or what ever,stay real Kathi,all thing belong to God the creator ,Christ the son is his creation, Pierre Pierre

Pierre,
No one is saying that some theos is equally the Father. I'm saying that they are both equally theos though. One is theos, the Father and the other is the begotten theos (theos the Son).

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2011,18:51)

The following scripture states that there is but “One God”. 1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; They are “one” in the spirit. John 17:21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty,
A unity is considered singular also. The Bible speaks of two sticks that are one stick. The Church is many churches yet ONE church. The Bible is many books, yet ONE book.

I think that Jehovah is the name of the unity of God the Father and God the Son who are each called Jehovah/YHVH in the Bible. So, the unity is named Jehovah as well as each member.

Two sticks = ONE stick
Two Jehovahs = ONE Jehovah

The unities in the Bible are spoken of in singular terms…pronouns and verbs yet we know that the church has many churches and members within it.

They are one in more ways than in spirit.
Kathi

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 23 2011,16:19)

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,21:06) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 22 2011,16:58) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,09:30) A God begets a God A man begets a man Kathi, I noticed you used the phrase “God the Son” five times in the post to which I'm responding.  Where can we learn about “God the Son” in the scriptures?  And can we also learn about “God the Accuser” (Satan) there?  If not, why one and not the other? Also, THE God beget A god.  Jehovah surely didn't beget Himself, or even a part OF Himself.  He begot a Son. Just like THE Man beget A man.  Adam surely didn't beget himself, or even a part OF himself.  He begot a son. Surely you can tell the difference? Mike, If you can say 'the only begotten God/god' you can also say 'the only God/god who was begotten' and we know that the one who was begotten is an only begotten Son, so why play dumb here?  God/god the Son is a logical conclusion and I wrote it because you get so easily confused and often say something like “but how can He beget Himself.”  When I write “God the Son” you can save that question and know that I am making a distinction between God the Son and God the Father. Jehovah the Father beget Jehovah the Son…not created but begotten from within. I'm not interested in your word games, Mike. Kathi Whoa!   Did I strike a nerve, Kathi?  From what I gathered in your post, there is NO scriptural evidence of any “God the Son”.  And according to your fancy footwork, we can call Jesus “God the Son” because he is called “god”, and he is a “son”, right? Okay then, play fair across the board with that reasoning.  Satan is called “god” and is also called “the accuser”.  So let me hear you speak about “God the Accuser” once in a while, okay?   Deborah was called “god”, and she was a judge over Israel for a time.  Shall we now refer to her as “God the Judge”?  And when certain angels in scripture are called “god”, shall we refer to them as “God the Angel”?   Btw, who is this “Jehovah the Son”?  In what scripture do we read all about him? Oh, and will you please address the last part of my post – the part I bolded and supersized for you?

Mike,
Put your thinking cap on now…if the begotten God is the same person as the only begotten Son, then He is God the Son.

Jehovah the Father begat Jehovah the Son…two persons with the same name.

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,21:52)

Pierre, What does it mean when the 'theos' is also called Jehovah? Kathi

Pierre,
I don't believe that you answered this question.

Kathi

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 26 2011,22:19)

Mike, Put your thinking cap on now…if the begotten God is the same person as the only begotten Son, then He is God the Son.

So then agree that scripture speaks of “God the Accuser”, and “God Deborah, the Judge”, and “God the Angel”?

Or do you make the “Exception for Jesus” once again, and only use your reasoning for him, and not the others?

Quote

Jehovah the Father begat Jehovah the Son…two persons with the same name.

As far as I know, YHWH is the name of the Father alone. His Son's name is “Joshua”.

Perhaps you're reading your own imagination into scripture and coming up with an imaginary “Jehovah the Son”?

Also, will you ever address my last bolded point about Adam begetting A adam, and not himself?

[Lightenup]

Mike,
If Adam had a son and named him Adam after himself (many fathers do this, btw) then Adam begat Adam. See?
You can call Deborah or satan what you want but they do not have the nature of God so I don't call them God. For me there is the Father and the Son together with their Spirit. That is God in His fullness and this unity and all members within it who are with original God nature are who I look to as the sovereign God in my life.

How many husbands does the church have, Mike? Can you answer that?

If Jehovah the Son is my own imagination, why do the scholars before me say such a thing also? Confirmation maybe. I think so.

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 27 2011,22:41)

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,21:52) Pierre, What does it mean when the 'theos' is also called Jehovah? Kathi Pierre, I don't believe that you answered this question. Kathi

Kathi

sorry i must have mist it,

well ; Theos his Jehovah
;Jehovah his Theos

what wrong with this ??

Pierre is president
the President is Pierre
???

I do not see nothing wrong ,

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 27 2011,14:19)

Mike, If Adam had a son and named him Adam after himself (many fathers do this, btw) then Adam begat Adam. See?

But scripture doesn't tell us of any Son of Jehovah that He named “Jehovah”. Scripture tells us God's Son is named “Jesus”, not “Jehovah”, right? To add anything to this is to let our own imagination take over.

And Adam's firstborn son was not named “Adam” either. So please address that bolded part again with the knowledge that I am speaking of Adam and Cain.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 27 2011,14:19)

If Jehovah the Son is my own imagination, why do the scholars before me say such a thing also?

What scholars mention “YHWH the Son” – just out of curiosity?

[Lightenup]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 27 2011,20:09)

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 27 2011,22:41) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,21:52) Pierre, What does it mean when the 'theos' is also called Jehovah? Kathi Pierre, I don't believe that you answered this question. Kathi Kathi sorry i must have mist it, well ; Theos  his Jehovah      ;Jehovah his Theos what wrong with this ?? Pierre is president the President is Pierre ??? I do not see nothing wrong , Pierre

Pierre,
Please check that for any misspellings. I think you need to remove the 'h' from 'his' to make it 'is.' Would that be correct?

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 27 2011,20:17)

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 27 2011,14:19) If Jehovah the Son is my own imagination, why do the scholars before me say such a thing also? What scholars mention “YHWH the Son” – just out of curiosity?

Mike,
John Gill is who I recall off the top of my head.

Kathi

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 28 2011,20:57)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 27 2011,20:09) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 27 2011,22:41) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,21:52) Pierre, What does it mean when the 'theos' is also called Jehovah? Kathi Pierre, I don't believe that you answered this question. Kathi Kathi sorry i must have mist it, well ; Theos  his Jehovah      ;Jehovah his Theos what wrong with this ?? Pierre is president the President is Pierre ??? I do not see nothing wrong , Pierre Pierre, Please check that for any misspellings.  I think you need to remove the 'h' from 'his' to make it 'is.'  Would that be correct? Kathi

Kathi

yes it is ;;is ;; thanks

Pierre

[Author]

Posts