Did God die on the cross

[Wakeup]

Who of you believe that God died on the cross?
then your God is mortal,he can be killed by men.
Why would we worship a mortal God like the pagans do,for their God is mortal.

Those that believe that The God they worship died,dont realise,and dont know their God.
Do you know that everything is framed by the word of God?
The univers and all,Do you realise what will happen if God died? It will be keos in the universe and here on earth.
NO,GOD did not die,but his son died, the image of the father.
The son of man, the son of david,the son of God,the morning star.The doctrine of trinity has caused a lot of damage,many souls has been lost never finding the truth.Pray that Jesus will open the prison doors and set you free.

No heart feelings please,its all for good.

wakeup.

[Lightenup]

Wakeup,
Welcome to HN!
You are right in that God cannot die…that is one reason why He begat His Son who is God like the Father God and referred to as the begotten God. (The two are in unity as ONE God through their Holy Spirit.) That way one of them could empty Himself and become something that COULD DIE (a fleshly man) while the other (the Father) would remain in complete control and not be empty of His power and authority…the begotten God became a man so that He COULD die for mankind. It really is a marvelous story if you understand it. To many people this is too hard to accept…the idea that God could die or would even empty Himself of whatever He needed to in order to lower Himself and become a fleshly servant…a helpless infant. You miss the whole point of the incarnation to not believe that God, the begotten God (who was begotten before the ages) actually did lower Himself into flesh…I know that is amazing and too amazing for some to accept. By love the Father sent the Son, who is the begotten God, to humble Himself to lowly flesh so that He COULD relate to man AND also DIE for man. Praise to the Father and to the Son and their Holy Spirit!
No hard feelings…it is all for good
Kathi

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 21 2011,18:29)

That way one of them could empty Himself and become something that COULD DIE (a fleshly man) while the other (the Father) would remain in complete control and not be empty of His power and authority……..

One of THEM? The other of THEM?

Kathi, the ONLY way your words would make sense is if we had TWO Gods.

Yet for US, there is but ONE God, the Father…………

How I've longed for you to become one of US, Kathi.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 21 2011,10:44)

The son of man………

Speaking of the Son of Man, who we all know Jesus was:

Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.

There you have it, Kathi.  Straight from the scriptures:  God is NOT a son of man.  Yet Jesus was.  Hmmm…………..

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,11:29)

Welcome to HN! You are right in that God cannot die…that is one reason why He begat His Son who is God like the Father God and referred to as the begotten God.

And you call both the Father and the son YHWH, and thus YHWH hung on the cross in your understanding.

We do not concur of course.

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 21 2011,20:47)

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 21 2011,18:29) That way one of them could empty Himself and become something that COULD DIE (a fleshly man) while the other (the Father) would remain in complete control and not be empty of His power and authority…….. One of THEM?  The other of THEM?   Kathi, the ONLY way your words would make sense is if we had TWO Gods.   Yet for US, there is but ONE God, the Father………… How I've longed for you to become one of US, Kathi.

Mike,
you said:

Quote

Kathi, the ONLY way your words would make sense is if we had TWO Gods.

That is correct…and we do, one that begot another and being two who were/are/always will be perfect…they have always been in unity as one God. If they were not, they would cease from being perfect.

Two sticks yet one stick…
Two Gods yet one God.

For believers there is only one God the Father and only one begotten God, the Son. That makes two.

Quote

How I've longed for you to become one of US, Kathi.

Define 'us' Mike and tell me who is in that category here. Thanks,
Kathi

[Lightenup]

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 21 2011,21:05)

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,11:29) Welcome to HN! You are right in that God cannot die…that is one reason why He begat His Son who is God like the Father God and referred to as the begotten God. And you call both the Father and the son YHWH, and thus YHWH hung on the cross in your understanding. We do not concur of course.

Well t8, if one is Yahweh the Father and the other is Yahweh the Son, then Yahweh the Son hung on the cross but not Yahweh the Father.

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 21 2011,20:53)

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 21 2011,10:44) The son of man……… Speaking of the Son of Man, who we all know Jesus was: Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. There you have it, Kathi.  Straight from the scriptures:  God is NOT a son of man.  Yet Jesus was.  Hmmm…………..

Mike,
Context Mike, context!

The point is that God does not lie or change His mind like the common man. The Father or Son are not man by original nature.

Kathi

[terraricca]

kathi

Quote

Two sticks yet one stick… Two Gods yet one God. For believers there is only one God the Father and only one begotten God, the Son. That makes two.

why do you not say all the truth;

One God + one Son + all men are gods,and all angel have been called gods = 30000000000…………………………………?gods

so one stick + one stick + plus all the trees and bushes =40000000000…………………………………..?sticks

Pierre

[Lightenup]

Pierre,
I encourage you to learn about unity and the story behind the 'stick' remark. Let's just say that Mike, the one I addressed it to, knows the story. Are you interested in knowing about how the idea of unity is spoken about in the OT by using the term 'stick?' Or not? Feel free to ask me.

i also encourage you to learn about the difference between those called God by originally having the nature of deity and those who haven't. It would help you understand your Bible better, imo.

Take care Pierre,
Kathi

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,22:33)

Pierre, I encourage you to learn about unity and the story behind the 'stick' remark.  Let's just say that Mike, the one I addressed it to, knows the story.  Are you interested in knowing about how the idea of unity is spoken about in the OT by using the term 'stick?'  Or not?  Feel free to ask me. i also encourage you to learn about the difference between those called God by originally having the nature of deity and those who haven't.  It would help you understand your Bible better, imo. Take care Pierre, Kathi

kathi

Quote

OT by using the term 'stick?' Or not? Feel free to ask me. i also encourage you to learn about the difference between those called God by originally having the nature of deity and those who haven't. It would help you understand your Bible better, imo.

in your ,imo,would i end up up like you believing those double gods if i do what you say ?

Pierre

[Wakeup]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,11:29)

Wakeup, Welcome to HN! You are right in that God cannot die…that is one reason why He begat His Son who is God like the Father God and referred to as the begotten God.  (The two are in unity as ONE God through their Holy Spirit.)  That way one of them could empty Himself and become something that COULD DIE (a fleshly man) while the other (the Father) would remain in complete control and not be empty of His power and authority…the begotten God became a man so that He COULD die for mankind.  It really is a marvelous story if you understand it.  To many people this is too hard to accept…the idea that God could die or would even empty Himself of whatever He needed to in order to lower Himself and become a fleshly servant…a helpless infant.  You miss the whole point of the incarnation to not believe that God, the begotten God (who was begotten before the ages) actually did lower Himself into flesh…I know that is amazing and too amazing for some to accept.  By love the Father sent the Son, who is the begotten God, to humble Himself to lowly flesh so that He COULD relate to man AND also DIE for man.  Praise to the Father and to the Son and their Holy Spirit! No hard feelings…it is all for good Kathi

Hi Lightenup, Thankyou for your reply

My question is did God die on the cross,and you agree with me that God can not die,BUT,BUT part of him can die thats what you are realy saying.Did not Jesus cried on the cross saying ''My God My God why have you FORSAKEN ME”
God went back to heaven,Who then died on that cross?
You will say that is the other half of God.

Is God the son of David?
Alright: Now after jesus went to his Father,He still called his father My God (rev3:12).
Rev22:16 I am The root and offspring of David.??
Is God the offspring of David??

When Jesus was baptised Did God say; this is me in the flesh? no; but he says ''This is my beloved son in whom i am well pleased. Why is it so hard to accept What God says.Just say; Jesus is the SON of God.And we can have a cup of tea together.

1 cor 15:28 Jesus will be subject to the father: part of the father will be subject to the other part of the father.??

Is the father sitting on the right hand of the father?

THis subject has been debated for a long, long time and till now,the answer is not there. This is because Jesus said that No man knows the father, but the son and no man knows the son, but the father ,AND HE WHOM THE SON WILL REVEAL HIM.

Thank you lighten up. keep on searching.

wakeup.

[Wakeup]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,15:33)

Pierre, I encourage you to learn about unity and the story behind the 'stick' remark.  Let's just say that Mike, the one I addressed it to, knows the story.  Are you interested in knowing about how the idea of unity is spoken about in the OT by using the term 'stick?'  Or not?  Feel free to ask me. i also encourage you to learn about the difference between those called God by originally having the nature of deity and those who haven't.  It would help you understand your Bible better, imo. Take care Pierre, Kathi

Hi Lighten up.

DID GOD REALY TRULY DIE?
At least one part only died, and the other part is alive and well in heaven.

For God so loved the world that he gave his ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. Not part of himself.
This is a mystery that God only give the true seekers understanding. no man knows the son,and no man knows the father; but he whom the son will reveal him.

Greetingsto you.

wakeup.

[Lightenup]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2011,00:17)

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,22:33) Pierre, I encourage you to learn about unity and the story behind the 'stick' remark.  Let's just say that Mike, the one I addressed it to, knows the story.  Are you interested in knowing about how the idea of unity is spoken about in the OT by using the term 'stick?'  Or not?  Feel free to ask me. i also encourage you to learn about the difference between those called God by originally having the nature of deity and those who haven't.  It would help you understand your Bible better, imo. Take care Pierre, Kathi kathi Quote OT by using the term 'stick?'  Or not?  Feel free to ask me. i also encourage you to learn about the difference between those called God by originally having the nature of deity and those who haven't.  It would help you understand your Bible better, imo. in your ,imo,would i end up up like you believing those double gods if i do what you say ? Pierre

Pierre,
Is the Father called theos?
Is the Son called theos?

Are we told to believe in both of them?

If so, then we are to believe in two who are called 'theos.'

I do believe that reading about the 'sticks' would help you see how two are one. Let me know if you want to learn more about that or if you would prefer to not know and understand about the 'sticks' reference. I would be happy to show you.

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 22 2011,03:32)

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,11:29) Wakeup, Welcome to HN! You are right in that God cannot die…that is one reason why He begat His Son who is God like the Father God and referred to as the begotten God.  (The two are in unity as ONE God through their Holy Spirit.)  That way one of them could empty Himself and become something that COULD DIE (a fleshly man) while the other (the Father) would remain in complete control and not be empty of His power and authority…the begotten God became a man so that He COULD die for mankind.  It really is a marvelous story if you understand it.  To many people this is too hard to accept…the idea that God could die or would even empty Himself of whatever He needed to in order to lower Himself and become a fleshly servant…a helpless infant.  You miss the whole point of the incarnation to not believe that God, the begotten God (who was begotten before the ages) actually did lower Himself into flesh…I know that is amazing and too amazing for some to accept.  By love the Father sent the Son, who is the begotten God, to humble Himself to lowly flesh so that He COULD relate to man AND also DIE for man.  Praise to the Father and to the Son and their Holy Spirit! No hard feelings…it is all for good Kathi Hi Lightenup,  Thankyou for your reply My question is did God die on the cross,and you agree with me that God can not die,BUT,BUT part of him can die thats what you are realy saying.Did not Jesus cried on the cross saying ''My God My God why have you FORSAKEN ME” God went back to heaven,Who then died on that cross? You will say that is the other half of God. Is God the son of David? Alright: Now after jesus went to his Father,He still called his father My God (rev3:12). Rev22:16 I am The root and offspring of David.?? Is God the offspring of David?? When Jesus was baptised Did God say; this is me in the flesh? no; but he says ''This is my beloved son in whom i am well pleased. Why is it so hard to accept What God says.Just say; Jesus is the SON of God.And we can have a cup of tea together. 1 cor 15:28 Jesus will be subject to the father: part of the father will be subject to the other part of the father.?? Is the father sitting on the right hand of the father? THis subject has been debated for a long, long time and till now,the answer is not there. This is because Jesus said that No man knows the father, but the son and no man knows the son, but the father ,AND HE WHOM THE SON WILL REVEAL HIM. Thank you lighten up. keep on searching. wakeup.

Wakeup,
You are welcome. The truth of the Word becoming flesh is not about God the Son becoming half man and half God. He cannot be half God, kind of like a royal prince cannot become half royal if he decides to move to another country that does not recognize him as royalty in order to experience the life of a pauper. He would not be half royalty and half pauper. Actually he would still be royalty even though he emptied himself of those privileges for a time and left his money behind. He would also be completely a pauper at the same time since he had no special privileges or money.

The difference between the analogy of God the Son becoming man and the royal prince becoming a pauper is that a person with the nature of deity cannot die but a human prince can. God the Son's flesh was killed by man, not His Spirit…man's spirit is not killed by man either but it can be destroyed by God alone. So before God the Son took on flesh, He had a body that could not shed blood or die. Therefore He took on a flesh body that could shed blood and die. He died like any other man although His body was not left to decay but was raised to be an imperishable body.

You mention that Jesus has a God, that is true, and He is the only begotten Son of that God who is also His Father. Like begets like but fathers don't beget fathers, they beget sons/offspring. It just so happens that a God begat a God and the one that was begotten understands that His Father is God by nature like Himself yet is over Him as a father would be to a son. It would be natural to call your father “God” if your father actually was God. That in no way means that the Son of that God could not be God by nature like His father. There is no other that is or will be God by original nature like the Father and the Son are.

A God begets a God
A man begets a man
A dog begets a dog, etc.

I hope that helps,
Kathi

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 23 2011,08:59)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2011,00:17) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,22:33) Pierre, I encourage you to learn about unity and the story behind the 'stick' remark.  Let's just say that Mike, the one I addressed it to, knows the story.  Are you interested in knowing about how the idea of unity is spoken about in the OT by using the term 'stick?'  Or not?  Feel free to ask me. i also encourage you to learn about the difference between those called God by originally having the nature of deity and those who haven't.  It would help you understand your Bible better, imo. Take care Pierre, Kathi kathi Quote OT by using the term 'stick?'  Or not?  Feel free to ask me. i also encourage you to learn about the difference between those called God by originally having the nature of deity and those who haven't.  It would help you understand your Bible better, imo. in your ,imo,would i end up up like you believing those double gods if i do what you say ? Pierre Pierre, Is the Father called theos? Is the Son called theos? Are we told to believe in both of them? If so, then we are to believe in two who are called 'theos.' I do believe that reading about the 'sticks' would help you see how two are one.  Let me know if you want to learn more about that or if you would prefer to not know and understand about the 'sticks' reference.  I would be happy to show you. Kathi

kathi

Quote

Pierre, Is the Father called theos? Is the Son called theos? Are we told to believe in both of them? If so, then we are to believe in two who are called 'theos.' I do believe that reading about the 'sticks' would help you see how two are one. Let me know if you want to learn more about that or if you would prefer to not know and understand about the 'sticks' reference. I would be happy to show you. Kathi

being called theos means only that you are a ruler,at the Highest level;

if the greater Theos send a lower grade Theos to show his will and his ways ;do you think that it would be wise to listen to him and respect the ambassador of the Almighty God;???well I would ;

sure they are one but not the way you wish it to be ;the father send the son with a mission ;it is in the mission that they are united just has any one that support that mission will be one with them ,in that mission,

you are so wrong ,to pursue this way of yours.

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 21 2011,20:05)

Mike, you said: Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Kathi, the ONLY way your words would make sense is if we had TWO Gods.   That is correct…and we do, one that begot another

I can't argue that.  Which one do you suppose is the Most High God and the God OF the other?  I and scripture say it is the One who begot the other.  Do you agree?

Which one do you suppose Paul meant when he said, “yet for us, there is but ONE God, the Father”?  And why did he say “ONE God” immediately after telling us there are MANY gods?  Do you suppose that he was setting God Almighty aside as the “Head God” – the Creator OF all the other gods such as Satan and Jesus?  I KNOW that was the point.  And that is why I call Jehovah “God” with a capped “G”, and Jesus “god” with a lower case “g”.  It is not right to award Jesus the same honor and glory as is awarded his own God and Creator.  It is for that reason you won't see too many people calling Satan “the God of this world”, with a capped “G”.

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 21 2011,20:05)

For believers there is only one God the Father and only one begotten God, the Son.  That makes two.

Again, I agree with those words, because they are scriptural.

But don't forget that the only begotten god is the one who said the Unbegotten God was greater than him.

The only begotten god told us to worship and serve only the Unbegotten God.

In fact, the only begotten god also worshipped and served the Unbegotten God.

The only begotten god called the Unbegotten God “the only true God”.

The only begotten god said that our God was also his God.

The only begotten god will rule with the permission, strength, and authority of the Unbegotten God.

It seems that we start off with the same scriptural truth.  But somewhere along the line, you want to forget these other scriptural truths that I've listed – plus a whole bunch more.

peace,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 22 2011,02:32)

Why is it so hard to accept What God says.Just say; Jesus is the SON of God.And we can have a cup of tea together.

Good points all in that post, Wakeup.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,09:30)

A God begets a God A man begets a man

Kathi,

I noticed you used the phrase “God the Son” five times in the post to which I'm responding.  Where can we learn about “God the Son” in the scriptures?  And can we also learn about “God the Accuser” (Satan) there?  If not, why one and not the other?

Also, THE God beget A god.  Jehovah surely didn't beget Himself, or even a part OF Himself.  He begot a Son.

Just like THE Man beget A man.  Adam surely didn't beget himself, or even a part OF himself.  He begot a son.

Surely you can tell the difference?

[Lightenup]

Pierre,
What does it mean when the 'theos' is also called Jehovah?

Kathi

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