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hi kerwin
look here what GENE is preaching who is saved;;;;
Thinker……..But Jesus said GOD seeks those who worship Him in SPIRIT and TRUTH. He did not say GOD was seeking them to worship (JESUS), Himself in spirit and truth did HE. Can't you see how you are twisting up what Jesus plainly said. You need to dump all you Trinitarian dogmas and start over with a pure and clean view of exactly what Jesus and Scriptures say> And i don't mean just little pieces of them but all of them so you can get the complete picture. Little snap shots here and there will not do, you will simply go forward and fall backward. IMO
Edited by Gene on Jan. 23 2010,11:07
Terraricca……… So what your point? No where did i say who is saved or not saved. Look i am (NOT) GOD I do not make that judgement call on NO ONE T.
gene
what i focus is you are given no one free will , but you quote that the only one God seeks are worshiper in truth and spirit is that not a selection ,and is this up to whom,? to the people looking for God ?who search for him? by there free will and know God and his will.
this is your quote;;
……..But Jesus said GOD seeks those who worship Him in SPIRIT and TRUTHTerriaccia……….Right and the only ones who do, are the ONES He has Opened up their minds to understand the truth, not everyone has the truth in them or they all would chose to follow Jesus. Jesus PLAINLY SAID ” (NO) MAN (CAN) COME UNTO ME EXCEPT THE FATHER DRAW (DRAG) HIM”. SO MUCH FOR YOU “FREE WILL” DOGMAS. Trying to glorify the self by saying it your (OWN) so-called “FREE WILL” that save you has (NO) Scriptural support whatsoever. If so produce it then. Why don't you deal with what I have Quoted First, before you blast of your Theologies. IMO
Terraraccia, that is not the question if some Seek or not, the question is are those who seek using their (OWN) So called “FREE WILL” or is GOD Causing it by (DRAWING) them to Christ. Why don't you just deal with the quoted Scripture instead of trying to make up your own So Called “FREE WILL” salvation dogmas. Here something else why did Jesus tell His disciples that they did (not) choose Him but he choose them. Explain that whiles your at it also. I can give you more scriptures, but you have yet to answer the ones i have posted first, so lets start there.
gene
that s what i do you get carry away because the two words put together free + will
DRAWING do you know that some people are attracted to the spiritual and Godly things by inclination just like some are attracted to carpentry,or medicine ect if you can be drawn to those thing you tell me a person can not be drawn to God the same way just because they like what he is saying in the bible
Terraricca……… Again your adding your thoughts to the text. Jesus (PLAINLY) said “(NO) MAN (CAN) COME UNTO ME, UNLESS THE FATHER DRAW HIM”> There is no need to twist that by trying to make it come out the way you want it to. We have enough of that going on here already. IMO
gene
2Co 12:6 Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say.Phil 1:22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know!
1Pe 4:3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry.Jer 3:14 “Return, faithless people,” declares the LORD, “for I am your husband. I will choose you—one from a town and two from a clan—and bring you to Zion.
Jer 33:26 then I will reject the descendants of Jacob and David my servant and will not choose one of his sons to rule over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. For I will restore their fortunes and have compassion on them.’ ”see God reject faithless people.
Jer 32;26 this is foretold the picking of the apostles but not the rest of us , and perhaps the 144000.
you can see even the apostles Paul choose to not do what he would n be good.
Peter say that to the church in 1Ptr 4;3 that they choose to stop doing the thing in the world.
Isa 56:4 For this is what the LORD says:
“To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths,
who choose what pleases meagain this eunuchs God says he choose what was pleasing him.
Pr 16:16 How much better to get wisdom than gold,
to choose understanding rather than silverand again to choose understanding ,we are not forced to choose understanding are we
??Ps 78:67 Then he rejected the tents of Joseph,
he did not choose the tribe of Ephraim;
Pr 1:29 Since they hated knowledge
again they choose they were rejected.Pr 3:31 Do not envy a violent man
or choose any of his ways,
Pr 8:10 Choose my instruction instead of silveragain they choose between God and envy of violent men way
2Ki 18:32 until I come and take you to a land like your own, a land of grain and new wine, a land of bread and vineyards, a land of olive trees and honey. Choose life and not death!
again choose live over dead if they could not choose why were they ask to choose?
?Kerwin……We are all accountable to GOD the Whole creation is His. Being accountable to GOD< has nothing to do with a so-called "FREE WILL" our Wills are accountable to GOD but not because they are "FREE WILLS" because no "FREE WILL" exists, It is because they are (INFLUENCED) WILLS and that influenced is what is accountable. IMO
Quote (Gene @ Jan. 23 2010,21:37) Kerwin……We are all accountable to GOD the Whole creation is His. Being accountable to GOD< has nothing to do with a so-called "FREE WILL" our Wills are accountable to GOD but not because they are "FREE WILLS" because not "FREE WILL" exists, It is because they are (INFLUENCED) WILLS and that influenced is what is accountable. IMO
I don't think we are using the same definition for accountable. Accountable means able to take responsibility for one's action. In other words claiming you chose to do something. I have no idea what you think it means. It sounds like according to you my car is accountable if it is involved in an accident or it speeds. I assure you the law does not look at it that way.Judge I assure you it was not me but my gun that is responsible for going off.
I am perhaps misunderstanding you.
Kerwin………You are misunderstanding me. Accountability is indeed a personal accountability. Rather it be GOD or Man, What has that to do with the subject of “FREE” WILLS, if your trying to relate to it. The definition Accountability does (NOT) imply a “FREE” anything it simply shows we are held accountable for our actions. The subject of “FREE” WILLS is not the issue only accountable WILLS are. To try to imply because GOD holds us accountable means we Have “FREE WILL” is an error. There exist no such thing as a “FREE” WILL only INFLUENCED WILLS EXIST. Show one scripture that shows our accountability has to do with any So-Called “FREE” WILL. It just does not exist. It would just not be a WILL if it was FREE of any INFLUENCE. Can't you see that brother.
peace and love……………gene
terraricca…….I realize you can't, but the question was directed a Kerwin not you. so i would appreciate if you would let Kerwin answer for himself.
Gene I know that you want Kerwin to answer you, however I have not said anything to this yet. You are right as far as accountable is. We all are. But it is our free will that makes us choose to believe on Scripture over the other. God did give us a free will to follow Him or not. Whatever we choose we will be accountable for that to God. And those who are in charge of people like a Minister or a Pastor is very accountable for what He teaches. So we here also need to be very careful for what we we say to each other. Every word God will put on the line. That is how I see it.
Peace and Love IreneIrene ……All i ask is show me in scripture where is says GOD gave anyone “FREE WILL” Even when Eve ate of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil She was (INFLUENCED) to do it. Irene there does (NOT) Exist (ANY) “FREE” WILLS, not even GOD'S WILL is “FREE”. of (INFLUENCE) “for god does (ALL) things after the (COUNCIL) of His WILL, if His will is a counseled one then it is an (INFLUENCED) WILL, the same as WE HAVE (influenced Wills) so they are (NOT) “FREE” because they are (INFLUENCED WILL). They are not “FREE of (INFLUENCE). do you see what i am saying”. That is why there is none mention in scriptures of so-called “FREE WILL” because non Exists. IMO
peace and love to you and Georg…………..gene
Quote (Gene @ Jan. 24 2010,09:26) Irene ……All i ask is show me in scripture where is says GOD gave anyone “FREE WILL” Even when Eve ate of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil She was (INFLUENCED) to do it. Irene there does (NOT) Exist (ANY) “FREE” WILLS, not even GOD'S WILL is “FREE”. of (INFLUENCE) “for god does (ALL) things after the (COUNCIL) of His WILL, if His will is a counseled one then it is an (INFLUENCED) WILL, the same as WE HAVE (influenced Wills) so they are (NOT) “FREE” because they are (INFLUENCED WILL). They are not “FREE of (INFLUENCE). do you see what i am saying”. That is why there is none mention in scriptures of so-called “FREE WILL” because non Exists. IMO peace and love to you and Georg…………..gene
No Gene, it was my will to leave the Catholic Church for instant. It is my will to do good. It is my will to eat a grape or a piece of toast. It is my will to marry Georg and stay with Him for 49 years. No body has influenced me to do so. However the Holy Spirit of God will not leave you alone when you do wrong and sin. God will let you know. But it is my will if I repent of that sin or not. And God will only tell you for so long then He will leave you in that Sin. That is how Satan has desensitized Human beings little by little. But it is never the less our will to do good or bad.
That is the way I see it, and I see I am not alone in this. Also when one has been abused, and I am talking from experience, we can do the same with our Children or we can stop that, which I did. I said in my Heart I will never do that to my children. But I spoiled them, ask Cindy our Daughter.
Peace and Love IreneIrene……..You might think your so-called “free will” was the source of you leaving the Catholic Church , and to do good and etc, but nothing could be further from the truth. It was what was (INFLUENCING) the MOST at the time that (CAUSED you to make those decisions. Nothing (FREE) about it. A will cant not (EXIST) without (INFLUENCE) AT Work. Even GOD'S Will is a (INFLUENCED WILL) “For God does (ALL) things after the (COUNSEL) of HIS WILL”. GOD himself uses a (counseled) WILL. Nothing “FREE” about it. If what you say is right then Produce scripture that say we have “FREE WILL” no one has produce any yet.
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