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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 30 2010,01:35) Jodi………They just do not understand that Personification of Adjectives is done a lot in scriptures, Jesus even described the Father that way , He told the disciples He spoke of the Father in provers (fictitious illustrations) and a time would come when he would speak to them about the Father plainly. peace and love to you and yours Jodi……………………..gene
Hi Gene,2Cor.2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
Would these be the devices that come from within?
Thess.2:18: Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.
Would this be Paul hindering himself or perhaps God hindering him?
1Tm:1:20: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
Who did Paul deliver Hymenaeus and Alexander to God or Hymenaeus? Your 'logic' is severely FLAWED!
Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 29 2010,22:08) Ed J, you said, “The contention is: that the 10 commandments were done away with; which of course the weren't!” I really fail to see what you are saying is true from the above scriptures.
Hi Jodi,The contention is: Are the 10 Commandments done away with
You say: '…how it makes useless the need for the ten commandments.'
And in the next breath: '…for they are incapable of keeping the commandments.'This as I stated before the 10 Commandments are (the essence of) the contention.
Luke 16:29-31 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they
be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. (Acts 13:38-39)John 5:44-47 How can ye believe, which receive honor one of another,
and seek not the honor that cometh from God only? Do not think that I
will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses,
in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? (2Cor.10:12 / Acts 26:22-23)The body of Moses in the above scripture does represent the ten commandments.
The above scripture gives examples of MEN who have sinned against God,
and how God is giving out a warning for a coming judgment day.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Jodi Lee @ June 29 2010,22:08) Jesus had the Spirit working in him and it caused him through powerful influence not to obey the flesh but to instead obey every word of God, of which brought Jesus to perfection and eternal life.
HI Jodi,Those who persist to try to live in the flesh when the Spirit has been made available to them,
cannot please God. God said: He will put the to commandments into their minds, and write
them in their hearts: and He will be their God, and they will his people! (Heb.8:10)Acts 3:18-23 But those things, which God before had showed by the mouth of all his prophets,
that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your
sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must
receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his
holy prophets since the world began. For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the
LORD your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things
whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not
hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. (John 12:48-50)God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ June 30 2010,09:04) Hi Gene, 2Cor.2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
Would these be the devices that come from within?
Thess.2:18: Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.
Would this be Paul hindering himself or perhaps God hindering him?
1Tm:1:20: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
Who did Paul deliver Hymenaeus and Alexander to God or Hymenaeus? Your 'logic' is severely FLAWED!
Good post Ed.Jodi, and Gene.
If I can try and understand what your saying here, forgive me if im wrong,
The word satan means adversary, so anyone can be an adversary, or a (wrong word satan)? Theres no “actual” devil.
And Jodi, you also believe Cain could be the “father of all lies the murderer from the beginning”
The original liar was the serpent who told eve she would not die. The serpent was the murderer from the beginning. Identified in revelations 12:9 as the old serpent, the adversary, the devil. Who was cast forth to the earth, and his messengers with him. Its not that the actual serpent was the devil, but that through the serpent the devil worked. The devil is able to work through others, the devil can become an angel of light, He was the original liar from the beginning because he said they would not die.
Gen. 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Gen. 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen. 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen. 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen. 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Gen. 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.II Corinthians 11:3, “But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.”
John 8:44, “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”
Luke 22:3 says he entered into Judas Iscariot
In the Early church fathers, they speak as Paul does of the Antichrist becoming the tool satan uses in the end, and actual person who seats himself in the temple.
For example, Who appeared to Mohammad to draw people away from salvation in Jesus? Was it not an angel?
Paul makes it clear. “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood,…But against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”
Yes, we all are sinners, were capable of anything, that has nothing to do with what your saying.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 29 2010,22:08) Jesus had the Spirit working in him and it caused him through powerful influence not to obey the flesh but to instead obey every word of God, of which brought Jesus to perfection and eternal life.
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Edit))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))Hi Jodi,
Those who persist to try to live in the flesh when the Spirit has been made available to them,
cannot please God. God said: He will put the 10 commandments into their minds, and write
them in their hearts: and He will be their God, and they will his people! (Heb.8:10)Acts 3:18-23 But those things, which God before had showed by the mouth of all his prophets,
that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your
sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must
receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his
holy prophets since the world began. For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the
LORD your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things
whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not
hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. (John 12:48-50)God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Jodi:
My understanding is that the “serpent” is the Father of lies and is a murderer in that he caused death to come upon the whole human race. It is that spirit, “his seed” that entered into the world through Adam and Eve.
Quote Genesis 3:14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Of course, the serpent's messengers are men and women.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (SimplyForgiven @ June 29 2010,05:09) Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 28 2010,21:58) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 28 2010,05:11) Jodi,
so let me get this straight,Jodi is saying that Satan/devil is an adjetive for another being?
couldnt i say the same thing about God?God is a title. It means the superme being.
yet my name means “The Lord is God” or “Jehovah is God”
Anyways besides the point.
John 8:43, Genesis 4:6> your conclusion is wrong. Cain desendants were WIPED OUT during the flood. and noah was from the line of Seth. so therefore the scripture speaks of another.
Jude 1:11- this has nothing to do with the father of lies. so POINTLESS
James 1:14 – pointless i already dropped cain.
Luke 4: 1- Jesus was fasting. so therefore he didnt feel hunger. he was spiritualy connected. he didnt even feel tempted.
My Cliam: Jesus said we shall not eat by bread alone but by the word of God, this is Jesus response to the DEVIL. Matthew 4:4-But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.Ezekial 2:8 But thou, son of man, hear what I say unto thee; Be not thou rebellious like that rebellious house: open thy mouth, and eat that I give thee.
9And when I looked, behold, an hand was sent unto me; and, lo, a roll of a book was therein;
10And he spread it before me; and it was written within and without: and there was written therein lamentations, and mourning, and woe.Mark 7:21, 1 John 3:12, also pointless, Jesus heart want defiled. Cain is already dropped.
John 8: 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.You think my argument was asserting that the people Jesus was talking to were direct descendants of the slanderer Jesus was referring to by way of the slanderer being their great, great, great…..etc…father?
I referred to Cain as our BROTHER, so I am not sure where you got lost.
Cain was the firstborn who entered into a world where deterioration and death to the flesh was a conscious awareness, where survival was a natural instinct. He became a liar and a murderer, the father of following after fleshly desires, “father” as in being the first or author of something.
Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
This was referenced in my post because it shows how the author is using CAIN as an example for following after greed, after fleshly desires. Why use Cain, when you could just have easily chosen someone else….?…..could it have been because he was the first person born on earth and was the first person born on earth that sinned?
Satan is the English word translated from the Hebrew word phonetically saw-tawn that means in Hebrew adversary. A steep mountain I don't want to climb I could call Satan. My opponent in checkers I could call Satan. As well, the English word devil, means slanderer in Greek, it is neither a proper name nor does it belong to one person. Anyone who falsely accuses or lies is a Devil!
You said, ” Luke 4: 1- Jesus was fasting. so therefore he didnt feel hunger. he was spiritualy connected. he didnt even feel tempted.”
This is what scripture tells us, and it is what I posted even highlighting in red,
1 And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, turned back from the Jordan, and was brought in the Spirit to the wilderness, 2 forty days being tempted by the Devil, and he did not eat anything in those days, and they having been ended, he afterward hungered, 3 and the Devil said to him, `If Son thou art of God, speak to this stone that it may become bread.'
He was TEMPTED and he did HUNGER!!
Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses,but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
Good grief, did you even bother reading the scripture you have chosen to give us your opinion on?
Jodi, i was answering your scripture genius.Im saying that Jesus was not talking about Cain as the father of lies.
Speaking of lying.
Are you losing it Jodi?
You Said:Quote Cain sinned out of HIS OWN RESOURCES!!……from HIS OWN DESIRES! The Father of lies is CAIN.
BUT NOW YOUR SAYING:Quote I referred to Cain as our BROTHER, so I am not sure where you got lost. Are you lying now Jodi? are you changing your arguement to fit your ideals. They were both orginally Highlighted.
ANYWAYS:
>Its clear that Cain is not the Father of lies nor of mankind.
>He was not the first to sin,
>Adam and Eve were the First,
>Cain was the first murdererQuote This was referenced in my post because it shows how the author is using CAIN as an example for following after greed, after fleshly desires. Why use Cain, when you could just have easily chosen someone else….?…..could it have been because he was the first person born on earth and was the first person born on earth that sinned? lol jodi, This doesnt make any sense becuase it doesnt tie back to John 8: 42. Why? because its clear that he doesnt speak of Cain.
here is someone else that God warns us about.
Malachi 1:3
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
Romans 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.abuot Luke 4:1
My assertion was correct, while he was fasting he was not tempted, and he was not hungry. that was my point.
He was only tempted afterwards and did get hungry.
I thought u said he was being tempted WHILE fasting.
which didnt make sense to me.Anyways,
The Devil had knowledge of the Word, and his temptation, used the WORD against Jesus,
This is a intellect being that had the ability to have knowlege about the word, and used it to tempt Jesus,
To say that this battle was in Jesus mind is wrong why becaus
e sin starts in the mind.James 1:13-Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.The choice was presented Jesus did have to think twice, because he had the holy sciptures in his heart, and answered back in that same manner.
This same intellect ASK JESUS to BOW DOWN TO HIM, and WORSHIP HIM,
Worshipping comes from one rendering to another, which means it had to be two people, not Jesus by himself.Anyways,
If you want to continue with your conjectures is fine,
but doesnt mean that they are biblical truth.
It is apparent that neither one of us is making sense to each other.You said, “My assertion was correct, while he was fasting he was not tempted, and he was not hungry. that was my point.
He was only tempted afterwards and did get hungry.
I thought u said he was being tempted WHILE fasting.
which didnt make sense to me.”It does not make sense to you that a person hungry becomes tempted? Say What?
1 Then Jesus, being filled with the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, 2 being tempted for forty days by the devil. And in those days He ate nothing, and afterward, when they had ended, He was hungry. 3 And the devil said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, command this stone to become bread.”
In Deuteronomy 28 we see a warning and a correct prediction of what man will do upon being inflicted by God with curses, diseases and enemies.
55 so that he will not give any of them the flesh of his children whom he will eat, because he has nothing left in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates.
God brings forth cursing, calamity and darkness of which draws the body into temptation. We are without a doubt weak creatures.
In the scripture above a person is brought into such temptation by his body that he eats his own children. Jesus WAS IN ALL POINTS TEMPTED AS WE ARE….he however in his temptation of his own flesh did not OBEY it, instead he served God. Jesus not eating for many days had a BODY that was TELLING him that he needed to SERVE IT in order TO LIVE, his OWN BODY WAS a GREAT SLANDERER and so is ours. Jesus however, told his BODY, that man does not live by bread alone. Some fallen angel didn't want bread, and some fallen angel didn't need to try and convince Jesus that he might want some bread, HIS OWN BODY DID.
Jesus, after receiving the Holy Spirit, was brought to the wilderness and given no food. He was being tested with the awesome gifts of power God had bestowed upon him, he could have instantaneously made himself bread. Scripture states that Jesus was tempted those fourty days, and when he ate nothing he became hungry. As previously stated James tells us that temptation comes from…. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
The slanderer that was tempting Jesus was his OWN BODY that was telling him he needed to eat in order to live.
I have internal conversations with my body all the time, especially when I am on a long run, and my body tells me to give it up, I have to use my mind to tell me we can keep going. When most people are hungry they can get very grumpy, it is a fact that hunger affects behavior. A lack of self control over our bodies and it’s desires can easily cause us to sin.Deut 28:56 The tender and delicate woman among you, who would not venture to set the sole of her foot on the ground because of her delicateness and sensitivity, will refuse to the husband of her bosom, and to her son and her daughter, 57 her placenta which comes out from between her feet and her children whom she bears; for she will eat them secretly for lack of everything in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates.
Serving is a form of worship SimplyForgiven. Sin is the result of man worshiping himself above God.
Romans 6:12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
Jesus was just given the Holy Spirit with all sorts of powers, he was the one that could use those powers for himself. He was the one who could bring himself glory. He was the one that could use his powers from God to rule over kingdoms.
There was not some fallen angel talking to Jesus that had power to give Jesus such things, it was Jesus HIMSELF WHO HAD THE POWER TO DO SO.
Jesus destroyed the devil through his DEATH scripture says, we are to be like Jesus, crucifying our flesh with it’s passions and desires.
Ask yourself SimplyForgiven how is it that Jesus was able to destroy some powerful being, some fallen angel, by dying? The truth is the DEVIL that Jesus DESTROYED, the slanderer Jesus destroyed was that which James tells us draws us into temptation, the body with it’s passions and desires, which is exactly what Paul teaches needs to be crucified.
Quote (Ed J @ June 29 2010,15:04) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 30 2010,01:35) Jodi………They just do not understand that Personification of Adjectives is done a lot in scriptures, Jesus even described the Father that way , He told the disciples He spoke of the Father in provers (fictitious illustrations) and a time would come when he would speak to them about the Father plainly. peace and love to you and yours Jodi……………………..gene
Hi Gene,2Cor.2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
Would these be the devices that come from within?
Thess.2:18: Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.
Would this be Paul hindering himself or perhaps God hindering him?
1Tm:1:20: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
Who did Paul deliver Hymenaeus and Alexander to God or Hymenaeus? Your 'logic' is severely FLAWED!
EDGood points!
WJ
Hebrews 2:14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
Romans 7:8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. 13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God–through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Him that has POWER of DEATH, that is also called the devil, is our carnal mind.
Jesus did not have a carnal mind, he overcame his through being spiritually minded, so when the temptation of the body came to him, he was able to deny it.
Scripture is direct in telling us that the carnal mind is what has the power over death. So when we see the Greek word for slanderer being said to be that which has the power of death, it is obvious that the slanderer represents the carnal mind.
I would like to see someone on this forum give us clear scripture that shows the identity of the Greek word for slanderer as being the title to a fallen angel.
Man is the devil for using his carnal mind to make choices, man is also directly called a snake. SNAKES use only their carnal minds, they are clueless as to the Spirit of God. Revelation 12, the old serpent, the dragon, the adversary, the devil is the carnal mind.
For people to deny these DIRECT CORRELATIONS with scripture blows my mind.
The serpent in the Garden of Eden represented the Carnal Mind. The two trees in the garden represented taking of the Spirit which brings Life, Hence the Tree of Life, and taking of the carnal mind, which brings Death, the Tree of knowledge of Good and Evil.
Can you people not see the direct correlation? Paul teaches that to trust and follow the carnal mind brings forth death. God warned Adam that to take of the tree of knowledge of good and evil would bring forth death. Adam and Eve trusted in their carnal minds and it brought forth death.
God punished the serpent, “On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life.”
Micah 7:17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent; They shall crawl from their holes like snakes of the earth. They shall be afraid of the Lord our God, And shall fear because of You.
The carnal mind of man was punished, it was given the knowledge of death and was filled with FEAR, thus having a desire to serve the body to survive. The second Adam and Eve sinned they hid from God, they were filled with fear.
The punishment given in Genesis to the serpent was not punishment given to a real snake, nor was it a punishment given to some angel who had possessed a snake.
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.”
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
The serpent seed is the MAN that follows after his carnal mind, and the woman's seed, is the example of Christ, the man that follows the Spirit of God!!!!!!
Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 30 2010,21:17) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 29 2010,05:09) Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 28 2010,21:58) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 28 2010,05:11) Jodi,
so let me get this straight,Jodi is saying that Satan/devil is an adjetive for another being?
couldnt i say the same thing about God?God is a title. It means the superme being.
yet my name means “The Lord is God” or “Jehovah is God”
Anyways besides the point.
John 8:43, Genesis 4:6> your conclusion is wrong. Cain desendants were WIPED OUT during the flood. and noah was from the line of Seth. so therefore the scripture speaks of another.
Jude 1:11- this has nothing to do with the father of lies. so POINTLESS
James 1:14 – pointless i already dropped cain.
Luke 4: 1- Jesus was fasting. so therefore he didnt feel hunger. he was spiritualy connected. he didnt even feel tempted.
My Cliam: Jesus said we shall not eat by bread alone but by the word of God, this is Jesus response to the DEVIL. Matthew 4:4-But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.Ezekial 2:8 But thou, son of man, hear what I say unto thee; Be not thou rebellious like that rebellious house: open thy mouth, and eat that I give thee.
9And when I looked, behold, an hand was sent unto me; and, lo, a roll of a book was therein;
10And he spread it before me; and it was written within and without: and there was written therein lamentations, and mourning, and woe.Mark 7:21, 1 John 3:12, also pointless, Jesus heart want defiled. Cain is already dropped.
John 8: 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.You think my argument was asserting that the people Jesus was talking to were direct descendants of the slanderer Jesus was referring to by way of the slanderer being their great, great, great…..etc…father?
I referred to Cain as our BROTHER, so I am not sure where you got lost.
Cain was the firstborn who entered into a world where deterioration and death to the flesh was a conscious awareness, where survival was a natural instinct. He became a liar and a murderer, the father of following after fleshly desires, “father” as in being the first or author of something.
Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
This was referenced in my post because it shows how the author is using CAIN as an example for following after greed, after fleshly desires. Why use Cain, when you could just have easily chosen someone else….?…..could it have been because he was the first person born on earth and was the first person born on earth that sinned?
Satan is the English word translated from the Hebrew word phonetically saw-tawn that means in Hebrew adversary. A steep mountain I don't want to climb I could call Satan. My opponent in checkers I could call Satan. As well, the English word devil, means slanderer in Greek, it is neither a proper name nor does it belong to one person. Anyone who falsely accuses or lies is a Devil!
You said, ” Luke 4: 1- Jesus was fasting. so therefore he didnt feel hunger. he was spiritualy connected. he didnt even feel tempted.”
This is what scripture tells us, and it is what I posted even highlighting in red,
1 And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, turned back from the Jordan, and was brought in the Spirit to the wilderness, 2 forty days being tempted by the Devil, and he did not eat anything in those days, and they having been ended, he afterward hungered, 3 and the Devil said to him, `If Son thou art of God, speak to this stone that it may become bread.'
He was TEMPTED and he did HUNGER!!
Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses,but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
Good grief, did you even bother reading the scripture you have chosen to give us your opinion on?
Jodi, i was answering your scripture genius.Im saying that Jesus was not talking about Cain as the father of lies.
Speaking of lying.
Are you losing it Jodi?
You Said:Quote Cain sinned out of HIS OWN RESOURCES!!……from HIS OWN DESIRES! The Father of lies is CAIN.
BUT NOW YOUR SAYING:Quote I referred to Cain as our BROTHER, so I am not sure where you got lost. Are you lying now Jodi? are you changing your arguement to fit your ideals. They were both orginally Highlighted.
ANYWAYS:
>Its clear that Cain is not the Father of lies nor of mankind.
>He was not the first to sin,
>Adam and Eve were the First,
>Cain was the first murdererQuote This was referenced in my post because it shows how the author is using CAIN as an example for following after greed, after fleshly desires. Why use Cain, when you could just have easily chosen someone else….?…..could it have been because he was the first person born on earth and was the first person born on earth that sinned? lol jodi, This doesnt make any sense becuase it doesnt tie back to John 8: 42. Why? because its clear that he doesnt speak of Cain.
here is someone else that God warns us about.
Malachi 1:3
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
Romans 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.abuot Luke 4:1
My assertion was correct, while he was fasting he was not tempted, and he was not hungry. that was my point.
He was only tempted afterwards and did get hungry.
I thought u said he was being tempted WHILE fasting.
which didnt make sense to me.Anyways,
The Devil had knowledge of the Word, and hi
s temptation, used the WORD against Jesus,
This is a intellect being that had the ability to have knowlege about the word, and used it to tempt Jesus,
To say that this battle was in Jesus mind is wrong why because sin starts in the mind.James 1:13-Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.The choice was presented Jesus did have to think twice, because he had the holy sciptures in his heart, and answered back in that same manner.
This same intellect ASK JESUS to BOW DOWN TO HIM, and WORSHIP HIM,
Worshipping comes from one rendering to another, which means it had to be two people, not Jesus by himself.Anyways,
If you want to continue with your conjectures is fine,
but doesnt mean that they are biblical truth.
It is apparent that neither one of us is making sense to each other.You said, “My assertion was correct, while he was fasting he was not tempted, and he was not hungry. that was my point.
He was only tempted afterwards and did get hungry.
I thought u said he was being tempted WHILE fasting.
which didnt make sense to me.”It does not make sense to you that a person hungry becomes tempted? Say What?
1 Then Jesus, being filled with the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, 2 being tempted for forty days by the devil. And in those days He ate nothing, and afterward, when they had ended, He was hungry. 3 And the devil said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, command this stone to become bread.”
In Deuteronomy 28 we see a warning and a correct prediction of what man will do upon being inflicted by God with curses, diseases and enemies.
55 so that he will not give any of them the flesh of his children whom he will eat, because he has nothing left in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates.
God brings forth cursing, calamity and darkness of which draws the body into temptation. We are without a doubt weak creatures.
In the scripture above a person is brought into such temptation by his body that he eats his own children. Jesus WAS IN ALL POINTS TEMPTED AS WE ARE….he however in his temptation of his own flesh did not OBEY it, instead he served God. Jesus not eating for many days had a BODY that was TELLING him that he needed to SERVE IT in order TO LIVE, his OWN BODY WAS a GREAT SLANDERER and so is ours. Jesus however, told his BODY, that man does not live by bread alone. Some fallen angel didn't want bread, and some fallen angel didn't need to try and convince Jesus that he might want some bread, HIS OWN BODY DID.
Jesus, after receiving the Holy Spirit, was brought to the wilderness and given no food. He was being tested with the awesome gifts of power God had bestowed upon him, he could have instantaneously made himself bread. Scripture states that Jesus was tempted those fourty days, and when he ate nothing he became hungry. As previously stated James tells us that temptation comes from…. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
The slanderer that was tempting Jesus was his OWN BODY that was telling him he needed to eat in order to live.
I have internal conversations with my body all the time, especially when I am on a long run, and my body tells me to give it up, I have to use my mind to tell me we can keep going. When most people are hungry they can get very grumpy, it is a fact that hunger affects behavior. A lack of self control over our bodies and it’s desires can easily cause us to sin.Deut 28:56 The tender and delicate woman among you, who would not venture to set the sole of her foot on the ground because of her delicateness and sensitivity, will refuse to the husband of her bosom, and to her son and her daughter, 57 her placenta which comes out from between her feet and her children whom she bears; for she will eat them secretly for lack of everything in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates.
Serving is a form of worship SimplyForgiven. Sin is the result of man worshiping himself above God.
Romans 6:12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
Jesus was just given the Holy Spirit with all sorts of powers, he was the one that could use those powers for himself. He was the one who could bring himself glory. He was the one that could use his powers from God to rule over kingdoms.
There was not some fallen angel talking to Jesus that had power to give Jesus such things, it was Jesus HIMSELF WHO HAD THE POWER TO DO SO.
Jesus destroyed the devil through his DEATH scripture says, we are to be like Jesus, crucifying our flesh with it’s passions and desires.
Ask yourself SimplyForgiven how is it that Jesus was able to destroy some powerful being, some fallen angel, by dying? The truth is the DEVIL that Jesus DESTROYED, the slanderer Jesus destroyed was that which James tells us draws us into temptation, the body with it’s passions and desires, which is exactly what Paul teaches needs to be crucified.
Jodi,you tickle me.
have you ever fasted before? if you have, you should know that when you fast, the desire to eat goes away.
ITs funny how you keep on attacking me when i already pointed out to you that God desires for you to eat the SCROLLS. for you will not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from God.when your connect to God, food doesnt matter anymore.
Ill give you another example,
when the diciples went with Jesus to the mount transfiguarion, where Jesus showed his true glory, the dicilpes didnt want to go back to see their family or anything else.When your submitted to God, connected to God, nothing else matters.
lol He didnt tell his body that.
Show me a verse that Jesus spoke to his body.
so i therefore can say that you are SPECULATING. adding to scripture.
ACTUALLY HE CALLED HIS BODY THE TEMPLE!
Jesus said he will destroy this temple and in three days build it again.Your body lack of nutirion is obvious affects you, but it is not a spirit that offers you something. ITs not a spirit taht gives your scrpiture, its not a spirit that you rebuke, or order.
You cant tell your body, STOP BEING HUNGRY.
you cant tell your body GET HEALTHY.
therefore your conclusion makes no sense.SIN IS DOING ANYTHING THAT GOD HATES!!!!
anything seperate of Gods will.
Jesus also said that this was the time of darkness when Judas was indwelt by the devil and went to betray Jesus.
Its obvious it wasnt just Jesus body.
anyways!!Here is the problem you have.
you keep on making speculating thoughts, and points.
Lets go with scripture.Your talking abotu the gospels right.
show me how Jesus is rebuking his body?
arugeing with his body?Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 29 2010,01:21) SimplyForgiven, John 8:43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
So who is this speaking of?
I don't think it's a reach to say Cain. He was in fact the first person who we see murder in the bible, and with that murder he did not stand in the truth but he lied to God about it.
1 John 3:12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous.
John 8 speaks of this murderer and liar doing so from his own resources, and we see in 1 John 3 that Cain murdered because he himself was evil.
Jodi,Your awefully trying hard to make Cain the fathers of lies when it clearly says the devil,
making any other assertion is called speculating.
Jodi to Add,
Did you know that Jesus was tempted
the same way EVE was tempted.hmm but eve was perfect, hasnt sined yet…
intresting,
and Jesus was perfect and never sinned.sin doesnt abide in them, therefore the carnal mind does not have a preeminence
over the perfect body,
therefore this is clearly not the body,but a intellect
Jodi………..Amen Sis, Jesus' victory was over himself. and the pulls of (HIS) Flesh. He was putting himself to death when he was being tempted , by that which was within Him. The Spirit of God in him was greater then what was in the world (his flesh body). You nailed it Girl.
peace and love to you and yours Jodi…………………………gene
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ July 01 2010,05:35) Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 29 2010,01:21) SimplyForgiven, John 8:43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
So who is this speaking of?
I don't think it's a reach to say Cain. He was in fact the first person who we see murder in the bible, and with that murder he did not stand in the truth but he lied to God about it.
1 John 3:12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous.
John 8 speaks of this murderer and liar doing so from his own resources, and we see in 1 John 3 that Cain murdered because he himself was evil.
Jodi,Your awefully trying hard to make Cain the fathers of lies when it clearly says the devil,
making any other assertion is called speculating.
John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.devil means slanderer, or liar, it is not a NAME of a person!
Cain was a liar and a murderer. He was the first murderer we see in the bible. Cain murdered because he was evil, the slanderer in John 8 was a liar from his own resources.
I will ask you again, if not Cain then WHO?
Just as Peter was a Satan, Cain was a Devil!!
Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 30 2010,15:15) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ July 01 2010,05:35) Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 29 2010,01:21) SimplyForgiven, John 8:43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
So who is this speaking of?
I don't think it's a reach to say Cain. He was in fact the first person who we see murder in the bible, and with that murder he did not stand in the truth but he lied to God about it.
1 John 3:12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous.
John 8 speaks of this murderer and liar doing so from his own resources, and we see in 1 John 3 that Cain murdered because he himself was evil.
Jodi,Your awefully trying hard to make Cain the fathers of lies when it clearly says the devil,
making any other assertion is called speculating.
John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.devil means slanderer, or liar, it is not a NAME of a person!
Cain was a liar and a murderer. He was the first murderer we see in the bible. Cain murdered because he was evil, the slanderer in John 8 was a liar from his own resources.
I will ask you again, if not Cain then WHO?
Just as Peter was a Satan, Cain was a Devil!!
The same person that was carrying on a conversation with Eve through her intellect!The same person that spoke of the “Tree of knowledge” who was not the “Tree” himself!
WJ
WJ………..Cain is where the first word for Sin is in the Scriptures, and He was a murderer and a Liar as Jodi said. God did not say Adam or EVE Sinned , they eyes were blind and were innocent of there acts and God did no accuse them of sinning did he?. But sin did enter into the world through them both because Cain was there first child. He was the first to derive His DNA fully from a man and a women. IMO
peace and love………………gene
Quote (Jodi Lee @ July 01 2010,01:15) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ July 01 2010,05:35) Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 29 2010,01:21) SimplyForgiven, John 8:43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
So who is this speaking of?
I don't think it's a reach to say Cain. He was in fact the first person who we see murder in the bible, and with that murder he did not stand in the truth but he lied to God about it.
1 John 3:12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous.
John 8 speaks of this murderer and liar doing so from his own resources, and we see in 1 John 3 that Cain murdered because he himself was evil.
Jodi,Your awefully trying hard to make Cain the fathers of lies when it clearly says the devil,
making any other assertion is called speculating.
John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.devil means slanderer, or liar, it is not a NAME of a person!
Cain was a liar and a murderer. He was the first murderer we see in the bible. Cain murdered because he was evil, the slanderer in John 8 was a liar from his own resources.
I will ask you again, if not Cain then WHO?
Just as Peter was a Satan, Cain was a Devil!!
That doesnt make any sense jodi,Its stating it to be a name,
ITS used as a name.than it is a name.
just like the serpent SAID.
In many cases.anyways
Peter was never presented as SATAN or THE DEVIL. what he did was influenced by Satan.
the same that happen with Jesus while he was being tempted.
this saying what we believe isnt going anywhere.
lets start with a scripture, and only talk about scripture and nothing else.
Only state what scripture states.
Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2010,07:05) Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 29 2010,22:08) Ed J, you said, “The contention is: that the 10 commandments were done away with; which of course the weren't!” I really fail to see what you are saying is true from the above scriptures.
Hi Jodi,The contention is: Are the 10 Commandments done away with
You say: '…how it makes useless the need for the ten commandments.'
And in the next breath: '…for they are incapable of keeping the commandments.'This as I stated before the 10 Commandments are (the essence of) the contention.
Luke 16:29-31 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they
be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. (Acts 13:38-39)John 5:44-47 How can ye believe, which receive honor one of another,
and seek not the honor that cometh from God only? Do not think that I
will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses,
in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? (2Cor.10:12 / Acts 26:22-23)The body of Moses in the above scripture does represent the ten commandments.
The above scripture gives examples of MEN who have sinned against God,
and how God is giving out a warning for a coming judgment day.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,I am having a hard time following you.
The contention is: The identity of the various adversaries and slanderers found throughout the bible.
You have not once said who the devil is in Jude 1.
This thread is not a debate about the ten commandments. It is about the Hebrew word translated into English as Satan, and also the Greek word meaning slanderer, false accuser, liar, translated into Devil.
The angel and a slanderer disputed over the ten commandments, is that what you are saying?
YOu have failed IMO to show how the Body of Moses represents the ten commandments. Because Jesus speaks about men having Moses and the Prophets and how those men won't listen to them, that neither will they listen to him, even if he rises from the dead, HOW does that show In Jude 1 that the body of Moses is speaking of the ten commandments?
The scriptures you are speaking of do not relate to the Ten Commandments being considered the Body of Moses at all.
Scripture speaks of those in the wilderness being BAPTIZED into Moses. We see in the NT people baptized into Christ and they are considered the BODY of Christ. Doesn't it make it obvious then what is meant in Jude when it says Body of Moses?
The BODY represents PEOPLE not commandments.. Scripture gives other names to the ten commandments, the body of Moses is NOT one of them!!
The Men that went against God's People in building the temple, being a SATAN unto them, lying and falsely accusing them being a DEVIL, God, like those MEN of Sodom and Gomorrah, have been reserved for a day of judgment.
2 Peter 2:9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment,
The MEN that tried going against God's People while building the temple, you don't think that was something of remembrance to the people? You don't think that those men would be something to mention when speaking of those whom God will reserve for the day of judgment? Those men slandered God's people while they were building the temple of all things, and they did so for the sake of their own flesh.
Tell me Ed J, who is the slanderer in Jude 1?
9 yet Michael, the chief messenger, when, with the devil contending, he was disputing about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring up an evil-speaking judgment, but said, `The Lord rebuke thee!' 10 and these, as many things indeed as they have not known, they speak evil of; and as many things as naturally (as the irrational beasts) they understand, in these they are corrupted; 11 wo to them! because in the way of Cain they did go on, and to the deceit of Balaam for reward they did rush, and in the gainsaying of Korah they did perish.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ July 01 2010,16:41) Quote (Jodi Lee @ July 01 2010,01:15) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ July 01 2010,05:35) Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 29 2010,01:21) SimplyForgiven, John 8:43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
So who is this speaking of?
I don't think it's a reach to say Cain. He was in fact the first person who we see murder in the bible, and with that murder he did not stand in the truth but he lied to God about it.
1 John 3:12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous.
John 8 speaks of this murderer and liar doing so from his own resources, and we see in 1 John 3 that Cain murdered because he himself was evil.
Jodi,Your awefully trying hard to make Cain the fathers of lies when it clearly says the devil,
making any other assertion is called speculating.
John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.devil means slanderer, or liar, it is not a NAME of a person!
Cain was a liar and a murderer. He was the first murderer we see in the bible. Cain murdered because he was evil, the slanderer in John 8 was a liar from his own resources.
I will ask you again, if not Cain then WHO?
Just as Peter was a Satan, Cain was a Devil!!
That doesnt make any sense jodi,Its stating it to be a name,
ITS used as a name.than it is a name.
just like the serpent SAID.
In many cases.anyways
Peter was never presented as SATAN or THE DEVIL. what he did was influenced by Satan.
the same that happen with Jesus while he was being tempted.
this saying what we believe isnt going anywhere.
lets start with a scripture, and only talk about scripture and nothing else.
Only state what scripture states.
You are obviously just too indoctrinated to see…..devil is NOT a NAME it's a WORD that MEANS SLANDERER.So you believe that every time you see in scripture the word Satan it represents just ONE person, the SAME person every time?….and when you see the word Devil it represents the same one person, therefore the same person goes by two names?
If I wrote a book about the Jews and Hitler and instead of using Hitler's name I substituted it with adversary, you wouldn't be able to understand that the word adversary was representative of the MAN Hitler? The devil in Revelation 2 is a clear representation of the emperor that was persecuting the early Christians. This emperor was following after the desires of his own heart, for evil comes from within, as Jesus and James teaches us.
So who is this devil to you Simplyforgiven?
Your comment about Peter and Satan shines the light in just how indoctrinated with false mainstream Christian beliefs, you are.
Matthew 16:23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.“
YLT-
23 and he having turned, said to Peter, `Get thee behind me, adversary! thou art a stumbling-block to me, for thou dost not mind the things of God, but the things of men.'Jesus was accusing Peter of being an adversary because he was having in mind the things of MEN.
To say that Jesus is saying that Peter was being influenced by some other being is just pure denial of the clear text.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ July 02 2010,02:10) Ed J, The BODY represents PEOPLE not commandments.
Hi Jodi,Just because you state that, doesn't mean it becomes “Truth”.
For it to be “Truth” it must line up with what Scripture teaches!Here is what the Bible says happened to Moses body…
Deut.34:5-6 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab,
according to the word of the LORD. And “HE” buried him in a valley in the land of
Moab, over against Beth-peor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.And here is what it says in the book of Jude concerning Moses body…
Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the
body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, [The LORD] rebuke thee.So here is where the Story begins; you ask who 'the Devil' is in Jude 1?
The Devil is identified in Rev.12:9 as the one who deceives the whole world.
The 10 Commandments were given to Moses by God to help remove the deception
started back in the Garden of Eden by the serpent (Rev.12:9 calls him 'that old serpent').
You should see: the 10 Commandments are what's in dispute; which removes the Devil's deception.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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