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Quote (terraricca @ July 09 2012,21:18) Quote (Lightenup @ July 10 2012,18:53) I'm in God's truth, Pierre. There are plenty of scriptures that show Jesus is Lord as in YHVH. My desire is to line up with God's truth.
Kathifor me please tell us what you do believe in
like what and who is Christ
who his God his father who are the 144k
and please back it up with scriptures .
thank you
Pierre,
Do you mean to ask me who is the Father and who is the Son, or who is Christ; because the Son I believe, existed before creation but the Christ was who the Son became, when He came in the flesh?Jehovah (the Father) is the God of gods
AND
Jehovah (the Son) is the Lord of lords
Together with their Spirit, they form one supreme authority (i.e.one God) over all creation.Deut 10:17 “For the LORD(Jehovah) your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe.
We can know this because of what 1 Cor 8:6 reveals:
1 Cor 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
Jesus is the Lord of lords as seen in Rev.17:14
“These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”As for the 144K, I haven't studied this enough to be confident in my answer.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 10 2012,21:20) Quote (terraricca @ July 09 2012,21:18) Quote (Lightenup @ July 10 2012,18:53) I'm in God's truth, Pierre. There are plenty of scriptures that show Jesus is Lord as in YHVH. My desire is to line up with God's truth.
Kathifor me please tell us what you do believe in
like what and who is Christ
who his God his father who are the 144k
and please back it up with scriptures .
thank you
Pierre,
Do you mean to ask me who is the Father and who is the Son, or who is Christ; because the Son I believe, existed before creation but the Christ was who the Son became, when He came in the flesh?Jehovah (the Father) is the God of gods
AND
Jehovah (the Son) is the Lord of lords
Together with their Spirit, they form one supreme authority (i.e.one God) over all creation.Deut 10:17 “For the LORD(Jehovah) your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe.
We can know this because of what 1 Cor 8:6 reveals:
1 Cor 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
Jesus is the Lord of lords as seen in Rev.17:14
“These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”As for the 144K, I haven't studied this enough to be confident in my answer.
KathiQuote Jehovah (the Father) is the God of gods
AND
Jehovah (the Son) is the Lord of lords
Together with their Spirit, they form one supreme authority (i.e.one God) over all creation.this needs explanation it sounds like mud to me ;please detail it for me ;and some scriptures would be nice
Quote (Lightenup @ July 10 2012,13:28) Hi AndrewAD, I call myself a Christian. I don't care much for extra-Biblical labels. The labels may help somewhat to understand one's Christology but when the rubber meets the road, not all trinitarians believe the same, nor arians, nor unitarians, etc.
From what I can tell, you do not understand trinitarians belief in the same way that I understand it. For instance, trinitarians agree that the Father is greater in authority. The equality is in the nature and essence between the three and that the three are in unity. They are one unity made up of three eternal persons, each having the deity nature and together united as one supreme authority over all creation.
Perhaps you're right and I'm not understanding things clearly.I enjoy studying doctrine but this is the most complex and maybe I should not even be treading here.
Regardless of their relationship to each other I love them still the same and desire to love them more.And I love and respect all Gods people.
And you're right that there are differences in the same camps of thought.
I do believe that God wants me in church and I'm not willing to be a JW,Unitarian,or United Pentacostal which are the only other options where I live so I'm going to remain a trinitarian;though maybe not an”orthodox” one.Since we all believe in the Father,Son and Holy Ghost in some form or another anyway.
And I do just call myself a Christian too-not baptist,Lutheran etc though I do attend a baptist church now but am not an official member.Thanks for your post and thanks to the others who responded as well.God bless you all!!Hi AndrewAD,
I understand where you are coming from. I have read the writings of the early church fathers and there was a time that the Holy Spirit was not distinguished as a person. I have thought of their teachings as the early trinity…the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit…two persons and the Spirit that proceeds from them.I think of Him (the Spirit) as the inner-person of the Father united with the inner-person of the Son which extends from them without ever leaving them. The Holy Spirit is their omnipresence so to speak. This omnipresence is controlled by the mind of the Father and the mind of Son. That is why the spirit of Christ can intercede for us, within us, with grumblings too deep for words.
Like you, I believe that God wants me in church also and I attend a Baptist church and I appreciate and love the people there. I can worship the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit with them.
I'm glad you are here. Where do you live, the States, NZ, where?
God bless you too!Andrew
Quote so I'm going to remain a trinitarian; I never was a trinitarian and yet I was born in a catholic environment ,but i never pick up what I could not read and understand clearly into the scriptures,I would advice you to do the same ,it is your soul you dealing for ,this is all we all have ,and only the truth of God can save it ,so in Christ name INVESTIGATE THIS LIE,
Hi Andrew, welcome to H-net!
Did you get all 20 questions right?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgPierre,
Jehovah = the God of gods + the Lord of lords
Are you with me so far?Deut 10:17 “For Jehovah your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 10 2012,22:42) Pierre,
Jehovah = the God of gods + the Lord of lords
Are you with me so far?Deut 10:17 “For Jehovah your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe.
Kathithis was understood no problemo ,yes go on
Ok Pierre,
The NT identifies who the God is and who the Lord is here:
1 Cor 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.The one God is the Father and the one Lord is Jesus Christ.
Are you still with me?
Quote (Lightenup @ July 10 2012,23:41) Ok Pierre, The NT identifies who the God is and who the Lord is here:
1 Cor 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.The one God is the Father and the one Lord is Jesus Christ.
Are you still with me?
KathiI am still with you
Good Pierre,
Now just plug all of that info into one equation like this:
Jehovah = our one God (the God of gods)-the Father + our one Lord (the Lord of lords)-Jesus Christ
Do you get this so far?
Quote (Lightenup @ July 11 2012,00:14) Good Pierre, Now just plug all of that info into one equation like this:
Jehovah = our one God (the God of gods)-the Father + our one Lord (the Lord of lords)-Jesus Christ
Do you get this so far?
Kathiis your equation a true one ,in school they told me to ad only the same things
like apples with apples and oranges with oranges so when you come to your answer you would know how many oranges and how many apples you have or are left ,
but deffinetly not mix both;
so God his only God almighty ;Christ his only the son and there for will never be God almighty and can never be God almighty because God almighty his is father ,
so the end results of your equation stands like this ; ONE GOD ALMIGHTY THE FATHER AND ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST HOW HIS ALSO THE SON;
see we can not mix those two beings in one common being because they are not .
do you follow this
Pierre,
A unity does not consist of all in the same position necessarily.
A family does not consist of only fathers.
1 married couple = 1 man + 1 woman
Do you see how that equation is true?They are both humans but definitely in different positions.
Likewise:
1 Jehovah unity = 1 Father Jehovah + 1 Son JehovahQuote (Lightenup @ July 09 2012,22:42) Deut 10:17 “For Jehovah your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe.
Kathi,Is God the Father a Lord? YES or NO?
Is He a Lord of other lords? YES or NO?
Quote (Lightenup @ July 11 2012,18:15) Pierre,
A unity does not consist of all in the same position necessarily.
A family does not consist of only fathers.
1 married couple = 1 man + 1 woman
Do you see how that equation is true?They are both humans but definitely in different positions.
Likewise:
1 Jehovah unity = 1 Father Jehovah + 1 Son Jehovah
KathiI wander if you work for a boss and you tell him that even do you work for the same company you are in the unity with him in this compagny and so like to share the same salary
Quote (Lightenup @ July 11 2012,18:15) Pierre,
A unity does not consist of all in the same position necessarily.
A family does not consist of only fathers.
1 married couple = 1 man + 1 woman
Do you see how that equation is true?They are both humans but definitely in different positions.
Likewise:
1 Jehovah unity = 1 Father Jehovah + 1 Son Jehovah
KathiQuote A unity does not consist of all in the same position necessarily. what is the point of this discussion then???
The point Pierre, is to show that Jehovah is not only the Father but also the Son! We are to worship Jehovah (both the Father AND the Son).
Quote (Lightenup @ July 12 2012,09:13) The point Pierre, is to show that Jehovah is not only the Father but also the Son! We are to worship Jehovah (both the Father AND the Son).
KathiI knew you mixing the apples and the orange together and call them fruit and the same thing ,
but being of the same essence does not make them the same in any way,the father will be the father forever and the son will be the son forever,NO ONE CAN CHANGE THAT ,THIS IS ESTABLISH BY THE FATHER
Pierre, I'm not changing that. Obviously, Your conflict is with your lack of understanding, not with me. The Father and Son remain the Father and Son. What many people here don't understand is what they are together.
1 Cor 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
May the grace of our Lord be with you (which Lord am I talking about?),
Kathi1Thess 5:28 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
Psalm 129:8
Nor do those who pass by say, “The blessing of the LORD be upon you; We bless you in the name of the LORD.”
Quote (Lightenup @ July 12 2012,13:56) Pierre, I'm not changing that. Obviously, Your conflict is with your lack of understanding, not with me. The Father and Son remain the Father and Son. What many people here don't understand is what they are together. 1 Cor 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
May the grace of our Lord be with you (which Lord am I talking about?),
Kathi1Thess 5:28 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
Psalm 129:8
Nor do those who pass by say, “The blessing of the LORD be upon you; We bless you in the name of the LORD.”
kathiQuote Pierre, I'm not changing that. Obviously, Your conflict is with your lack of understanding, not with me. The Father and Son remain the Father and Son. What many people here don't understand is what they are together. Jn 16:31 “You believe at last!”Jesus answered.
“Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.
Jn 17:2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.
Jn 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Jn 17:4 I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do.
Jn 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.Jn 17:6 “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.
Jn 17:7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you.
Jn 17:8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.
Jn 17:9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.
Jn 17:10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them.
Jn 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy FatherFather, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one.
what was it you say about me ;
Quote Pierre, I'm not changing that. Obviously, Your conflict is with your lack of understanding, not with me IS IT
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