- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Pierre,
I say that YHWH is the name of a unity of more than one person. I do not say that YHWH is the name of a being of more than one person.YHWH is also the name of each person within the unity. Context helps to determine if the passage speaks of the unity or the Father or the Son.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 26 2012,18:23) Pierre,
I say that YHWH is the name of a unity of more than one person. I do not say that YHWH is the name of a being of more than one person.YHWH is also the name of each person within the unity. Context helps to determine if the passage speaks of the unity or the Father or the Son.
KathiI told you that, that is not true ,this is your delusion ,and you would like for me to embrace it ,BUT THIS IS A LIE AND SO CAN NOT DO IT ,
Sorry Pierre, but your 'telling me that it is not true' doesn't make it not true. You need a better defense than that.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 26 2012,19:46) Sorry Pierre, but your 'telling me that it is not true' doesn't make it not true. You need a better defense than that.
kathi
I am on the ground luffing my belly hurts,you blame me for what you do by habit to all of us
Quote Pierre,
I say that YHWH is the name of a unity of more than one person. I do not say that YHWH is the name of a being of more than one person.YHWH is also the name of each person within the unity. Context helps to determine if the passage speaks of the unity or the Father or the Son.
and so I have to believe what you say,because what you say is obviously true
Pierre,
If I quote Bible verses and you don't accept them, it is not me telling you that you must believe me-I didn't write the scriptures…you are so confused but I have come to expect it from you.
Here are some Bible verses you should memorize:
1 Cor 12:3
Because I inform you of this: there is no man who speaks by The Spirit of God and says, “Yeshua is damned”, neither can a man say, “Yeshua is THE LORD JEHOVAH”, except by The Spirit of Holiness.1 Cor 8:6
To us, ours is one God The Father, for all things are from him and we are in him, and The One LORD JEHOVAH Yeshua The Messiah, for all things are by him, and we are also in his hand.Luke 2:11
“For today, The Savior has been born to you, who is THE LORD JEHOVAH The Messiah, in the city of David.”You can find all these verses under the Aramaic Bible in Plain English version on the Bible.cc site. Go to this link for Luke 2:11 and scroll down to the Aramaic Bible in plain English.
So if you disagree with the verses, then your problem is with scriptures, not me…I just put them on here for you to see. Laugh all you want but if you knew the truth, I think that you would be ashamed at yourself. I'm trying to help you.
K
I have answer to those comment of yours and about those scriptures ,why are you going to the devil to ask him if it is good to serve God ?
Pierre,
So now you and the devil are having discussions about me and he is telling you that I am 'going to' him?? Wow, no wonder you are so confused. My advice is to stay away from the devil…he will not tell you the truth.Quote (Lightenup @ July 24 2012,19:13) I Cor. 8:6 (HRV) says, “But to us ourselves, [there] is ONE ELOAH, THE FATHER, from whom [are] all [things] and by whom we are, and ONE YHWH, YESHUA THE MESSIAH; by his hand [are] all [things] and by his hand we are also.”
Kathi,Do you believe that there is one God, the Father, and one YHWH, who for some reason is named Yeshua?
This version says Jesus is the ONLY YHWH, leaving the Father out of the YHWH equation.
What now?
Quote (Lightenup @ July 27 2012,00:12) Pierre,
So now you and the devil are having discussions about me and he is telling you that I am 'going to' him?? Wow, no wonder you are so confused. My advice is to stay away from the devil…he will not tell you the truth.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 25 2012,23:31) 1 Cor 8:6
To us, ours is one God The Father, for all things are from him and we are in him, and The One LORD JEHOVAH Yeshua The Messiah, for all things are by him, and we are also in his hand.
Kathi,Why does this translation you posted for Pierre not match the translation I quoted in my last post to you?
Where did the word “LORD” come from?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2012,12:20) This version says Jesus is the ONLY YHWH, leaving the Father out of the YHWH equation. What now?
HA Ha ha ha ha!!!Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 26 2012,21:19) Quote (Lightenup @ July 25 2012,23:31) 1 Cor 8:6
To us, ours is one God The Father, for all things are from him and we are in him, and The One LORD JEHOVAH Yeshua The Messiah, for all things are by him, and we are also in his hand.
Kathi,Why does this translation you posted for Pierre not match the translation I quoted in my last post to you?
Where did the word “LORD” come from?
Mike,
One is from the HRV (Hebrew Roots Version) and the other is from the Aramaic Bible in Plain English (on the Bible.cc site).I'm guessing here but from what I read, the Aramaic word for lord is Mar and for YHWH, it's MarYa. So, one translation translates MarYa as Lord Jehovah and the other just as YHWH. Either way it points to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Moses.
In Cor. 8:6 we have one Lord who is Jehovah/YHWH Yeshua the Messiah. The Father is not Lord Jehovah/YHWH Yeshua, the Messiah. That would not be His name although He is YHWH also.
Ah, but if the word used was “MarYa”, and should be translated as “YHWH”, then the word “LORD” in the ABPE (Aramaic Bible in Plain English) is an ADDITION, and should not be there.
Which leaves us with my original point:
The HRV says Jesus is the ONLY YHWH, leaving the Father out of the YHWH equation.
What now?
Mike,
Again, the HRV says there is only one YHWH Yeshua the Messiah. In other parts of the HRV, the Father is called YHWH. So you have to read it as there is one YWYH Yeshua, the Messiah, because there is only one YHWH Yeshua, the Messiah. There is one YHWH, the Father with the one YHWH Yeshua. The one YHWH, the Father in this verse in 1 Cor 8:6 is referred to as one God, the Father but elsewhere is called YHWH.We are discussing the Aramaic version of one of Paul's letters. I have read that the epistles weren't even a part of the original Aramaic NT. Nor does it make sense that Paul would write his letters to non-Aramaic speaking Gentiles in the Aramaic language.
This seems clearly to be a case of Aramaic scribes TRANSLATING Paul's letters from the Greek language in which he wrote them to the Aramaic language.
And if that is the case, it seems these scribes have incorrectly translated the word “kurios” to “YHWH”.
Mike,
It is most likely, according to what Josephus said, that Paul spoke in Aramaic and wrote in Aramaic, then had what he had written, translated into the Greek for those who spoke in Greek. He may even had an interpreter when he spoke to the Greek speaking men and women. Paul might not have even spoken Greek, or maybe only a little.I'm going to read some of the articles about all this from here:
http://aramaicnt.com/articles.htmWhy don't you look at them also.
Also, Mike, not only are we discussing Paul's letters but the gospels. In Luke 2, Jesus is called YHWH. See here:
Luke 2:8 8But there were some shepherds in the region lodging there and they kept the nightly watch over their flocks; 9And behold, the Angel of God came to them and the glory of THE LORD JEHOVAH shone upon them and they were greatly afraid; 10And the Angel said to them, “Do not be afraid, for behold, I proclaim to you great joy which will be to the entire universe,” 11“For today, The Savior has been born to you, who is THE LORD JEHOVAH The Messiah, in the city of David.” 12“And this is a sign for you: You will find The Baby wrapped in swaddling bands and lying in a manger.” 13And suddenly, the great armies of Heaven appeared with the Angel, while shouting praises to God, and they were saying:
14“Glory to God in Heaven, and upon earth peace, Good News to the children of men.”
15It was that as the Angels went from them into Heaven, the shepherds spoke one with another and they were saying, “Let us go as far as Bethlehem, and we shall see this event that has occurred as THE LORD JEHOVAH has revealed to us.”
Here we have the glory of the LORD JEHOVAH shining upon the shepherds as He revealed to them, through the angel, that the LORD JEHOVAH The Messiah was born and in the city of David.
One is called, here, the LORD JEHOVAH and another is called THE LORD JEHOVAH THE MESSIAH.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 29 2012,22:22) Mike,
It is most likely, according to what Josephus said, that Paul spoke in Aramaic and wrote in Aramaic,
Let's not take a letter from Josephus, where he said he preferred to speak Hebrew, and apply it to the entire NT, okay?Josephus said nothing about Paul speaking or writing his letters in Aramaic, although your sentence above seems to imply that he did.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 29 2012,22:22) Paul might not have even spoken Greek, or maybe only a little. Acts 22 -23
37 As the soldiers were about to take Paul into the barracks, he asked the commander, “May I say something to you?”
“Do you speak Greek?” he replied. 38 “Aren’t you the Egyptian who started a revolt and led four thousand terrorists out into the desert some time ago?”39 Paul answered, “I am a Jew, from Tarsus in Cilicia, a citizen of no ordinary city. Please let me speak to the people.”
40 Having received the commander’s permission, Paul stood on the steps and motioned to the crowd. When they were all silent, he said to them in Aramaic (or Hebrew):
1 “Brothers and fathers, listen now to my defense.”
2 When they heard him speak to them in Aramaic (or Hebrew), they became very quiet.
Paul was a Roman citizen who preached the gospel to Gentiles, Kathi. Surely he spoke and wrote in the language used by those who heard him and read his letters.
In fact, 67% of the OT quotes the disciples used in their letters were from the LXX – the GREEK version of the OT. That implies that they also knew the Greek language, and read scripture from the LXX more often than from the Hebrew texts.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 29 2012,22:30) Also, Mike, not only are we discussing Paul's letters but the gospels.
We were discussing 1 Cor 8:6, Kathi. That's why I said what I said. And just like 1 Cor 8:6 ruins your “two YHWH” doctrine by calling Jesus ALONE our “one YHWHs”, this Luke passage seems to teach that both the Father AND the Messiah are “the LORD YHWH” – ruining your “one is 'God' and the other is 'Lord' ” claim.Kathi, you have stumbled across something that is telling you what your ears are itching to hear, and I don't suppose this Aramaic NT discussion will go away anytime soon.
So, while I'm deciding whether or not to spend the time delving into it's history deeply, I will just keep using your new favorite translation against your own doctrines.
I personally think the Aramaic NT is a TRANSLATION from the Greek, like the info I posted on the other thread attested to. (Don't forget that in that info I posted, they said, “One thing is CERTAIN – the earliest Aramaic NT's didn't contain any of the epistles”.) So at the most, you could try to use the four gospels to help you prove that Jesus is YHWH – but that is it.
Think about this: Why, in all these years of TRINITARIANS, have we NEVER heard (mainstream) about Jesus also being named YHWH? Wouldn't you think that this would have come out long ago? Wouldn't you think that Eusebius, Josephus, or someone would have mentioned that the “original” NT was in Aramaic, and called Jesus “YHWH”, but the Greek “translations” changed it to “kurios”?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 30 2012,19:27) Quote (Lightenup @ July 29 2012,22:22) Mike,
It is most likely, according to what Josephus said, that Paul spoke in Aramaic and wrote in Aramaic,
Let's not take a letter from Josephus, where he said he preferred to speak Hebrew, and apply it to the entire NT, okay?Josephus said nothing about Paul speaking or writing his letters in Aramaic, although your sentence above seems to imply that he did.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 29 2012,22:22) Paul might not have even spoken Greek, or maybe only a little. Acts 22 -23
37 As the soldiers were about to take Paul into the barracks, he asked the commander, “May I say something to you?”
“Do you speak Greek?” he replied. 38 “Aren’t you the Egyptian who started a revolt and led four thousand terrorists out into the desert some time ago?”39 Paul answered, “I am a Jew, from Tarsus in Cilicia, a citizen of no ordinary city. Please let me speak to the people.”
40 Having received the commander’s permission, Paul stood on the steps and motioned to the crowd. When they were all silent, he said to them in Aramaic (or Hebrew):
1 “Brothers and fathers, listen now to my defense.”
2 When they heard him speak to them in Aramaic (or Hebrew), they became very quiet.
Paul was a Roman citizen who preached the gospel to Gentiles, Kathi. Surely he spoke and wrote in the language used by those who heard him and read his letters.
In fact, 67% of the OT quotes the disciples used in their letters were from the LXX – the GREEK version of the OT. That implies that they also knew the Greek language, and read scripture from the LXX more often than from the Hebrew texts.
Mike,
Paul did not write Romans in Greek, Tertius did. He apparently was Paul's scribe. Now Paul either wrote his epistle in his mother tongue Aramaic, and then gave it to a scribe to translate into Greek, or he dictated it while the scribe wrote. But Paul did not write Romans in the Greek. So, Paul might have used scribes to translate his Aramaic writings into the Greek.See this verse:
Romans 16:22 I, Tertius, invoke your peace, who have written the epistle by Our Lord.
It is one thing to be able to speak a second language enough to communicate it and another thing to be able to write in a second language.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
