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Quote (thethinker @ June 18 2009,22:54) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 18 2009,22:01) Hi TT,
So Two gods are the source for you if you differentiate the Father from the Son?
Are you confused or polytheistic?
Nick,
YHWH said that He is the Rock and that He knows of no other Rock (Isaiah 44:8). Paul said that Christ is the Rock. Therefore….btw, YHWH also said that He is “Elohim” which you know is PLURAL.
thinker
Matthew 7:21 (King James Version)21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
(10) And when those who associate (others with Allah) shall see their associate-gods, they shall say: Our Lord, these are our associate-gods on whom we called besides Thee. But they will give them back the reply: Most surely you are liars.
( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #86)Al-Anbiya, Chapter #21
18 Nay! We cast the truth against the falsehood, so that it breaks its head, and lo! it vanishes; and woe to you for what you describe;
19 And whoever is in the heavens and the earth is His; and those who are with Him are not proud to serve Him, nor do they grow weary.
20 They glorify (Him) by night and day; they are never languid.
21 Or have they taken gods from the earth who raise (the dead).
22 If there had been in them any gods except Allah, they would both have certainly been in a state of disorder; therefore glory be to Allah, the Lord of the dominion, above what they attribute (to Him).
23 He cannot be questioned concerning what He does and they shall be questioned.
24 Or, have they taken gods besides Him? Say: Bring your proof; this is the reminder of those with me and the reminder of those before me. Nay! most of them do not know the truth, so they turn aside.
25 And We did not send before you any messenger but We revealed to him that there is no god but Me, therefore serve Me.
26 And they say: The Beneficent Allah has taken to Himself a ! son. Glory be to Him. Nay! they are honored servants
27 They do not precede Him in speech and (only) according to His commandment do they act.
28 He knows what is before them and what is behind them, and they do not intercede except for him whom He approves and for fear of Him they tremble.Quote (thethinker @ June 17 2009,21:38) Marty said: Quote God delivered Israel out of Egyptian bondage to Pharoah, and so that is what He means by being their redeemer. Marty,
The problem with your explanation is that it ignores the context in Isaiah 44:6. It's NOT speaking about a past redemption from the bondage of Egypt. It is speaking about a FUTURE redemption. The redemption spoken about is in connection with the pouring out of the Holy Spirit (vs. 3). It is speaking about things “yet to come” (vs. 7). And YHWH calls Himself Israel's “Rock” (vs. 8). YHWH said,Quote There is no other Rock; I know not one (vs. 8) Paul said that Christ is the “Rock” that followed them in the wilderness (1 Corinthians 10:4). Therefore, YHWH in Isaiah 44 is indeed Christ, “I know of no other Rock.” There is more that contradicts your commentary. But I will let you chew on this for a while.
Seeing that YHWH calls Himself the First and the Last and also the ONLY “ROCK”; and that Christ calls Himself the First and the Last and He is indeed the “Rock”, then the blood relative-redeemer in Isaiah 44:6 is Jesus.
thinker
(thinker)Quote
Paul said that Christ is the “Rock” that followed them in the wilderness (1 Corinthians 10:4). Therefore, YHWH in Isaiah 44 is indeed Christ, “I know of no other Rock.” There is more that contradicts your commentary. But I will let you chew on this for a while.No, Paul said no such thing. He NEVER SAID “CHRIST IS THE ROCK.” In fact, he said nothing at all about “Christ” in the reference cited. He told us something about “that rock.”
He said “that rock was anointed.” And it was.
When the High Priest was anointed, it was for his lifetime. And he was (Xriston tou Theou) “the Christ of God” till he died. His office ended at his death. Lev 21:10 “And he that is the high priest among his brethren, upon whose head the anointing oil was poured, and that is consecrated to put on the garments, shall not uncover his head, nor rend his clothes; 11 Neither shall he go in to any dead body, nor defile himself for his father, or for his mother; 12 Neither shall he go out of the sanctuary, nor profane the sanctuary of his God; for the crown of the 'Xriston tou Theou' [the anointing] oil [of his God] is upon him: I am the LORD.”
But Jesus is also called the “Xriston tou Theou,” and he also held the office during his lifetime. His office ended at his death. Luke 9:20 “He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, Ton Xriston tou Theou [The Christ of God].”
King David spoke of King Saul to Abner, calling Saul “ton kurion sou ton basilea” [thy Lord the king]; and ton “Xriston Kuriou,” The anointed of the Lord, which offices Saul held till his death. The appointment is for life. At one's death, the office ceases and his replacement takes over both the offices and the titles….
1 Sam 26:15 And David said to Abner, Art not thou a valiant man? and who is like to thee in Israel? wherefore then hast thou not kept ton Kurion sou ton basilea [thy lord the king]? for there came one of the people in to destroy ton basilea Kurion sou [the king thy lord]. 16 This thing is not good that thou hast done. As the LORD liveth, ye are worthy to die, ye who guard ton bassilea kurion [your Lord the king], ton Criston kuriou [the anointed of the Lord]. And now see where the king's spear is, and the cruse of water that was at his head.
But Luke calls Jesus “ton Xriston Kuriou” [The Lord's anointed]. Jesus was the Lord's anointed during his lifetime. At his death, the office ceased.
Luke 2:26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen ton Xriston Kuriou [The Lord's Christ].Lev 4:5 And the priest that is
[o`= nominative masculine singular definite article]
[cristos = nominative masculine singular adjective] o Xristos [anointed] shall take of the bullock's blood, and bring it to the tabernacle of the congregation:Mathew calls Jesus “o Cristos” because everyone expected “God's anointed” Messiah to appear. Mat 2:4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where [o`= nominative masculine singular definite article][Cristos = nominative masculine singular] o Xristos [Christ] should be born.
Amos 4:13 For, behold, I am he that strengthens the thunder, and creates the wind, and proclaims to men his
[ton criston] Christ, forming the morning and darkness, and mounting on the high places of the earth, The LORD God almighty is his nameLuke 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he [ton Criston] was Christ.
All “Christ” means is “anointed. It was not a name until Jesus was given the name “anointed.” It was always a designation for God's anointed.
Quote (thethinker @ June 18 2009,20:18) Marty said: Quote Hi thethinker: Even if it is speaking of the future, the scriptures state:
2Cr 5:18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.Marty,
The fact that God was in Christ reconciling the world does not subtract from who Jesus is. The scriptures also state that Christ is the SOURCE of eternal salvation,Quote And having been perfected, He became the AUTHOR of eternal salvation to all who obey Him (Heb. 5:9) According to Strong's the word “author” means “source.” Christ is the SOURCE of salvation. The anti-trinitarians like to rob Jesus of His rightful position.
Marty said:
Quote My understanding is that by the statement “the spiritual Rock that followed them” is meant that Christ was the Word of God who would be manifest later and not that he was following them around at that time. But they drank of that spiritual rock. So how could you say that the Rock would be manifested “later.” For you to say that the Rock would be manifested “later” is a batant denial of what Paul said. He said that they drank of the spiritual Rock.
And even if the Rock was manifested later so what? Your case is still hopeless. For YHWH said He is the Rock and He knows of no other Rock,
Quote Indeed there is no other Rock; I know not one (Isaiah 44:8) YHWH knows of not other Rock. No not one. Yet Paul called Christ the Rock (past or future). Was Paul a polytheist?
thinker
Hi thethinker:The scripture that I quoted states that God was “in Christ”, and so that means that Jesus is not God. God was dwelling within him. Isn't that what the scripture states?
And I am going to repeat the following scripture, and let that be the end of this discussion with you. I can see that you will not be corrected even if the truth is presented to you in plain terms. I don't see how anyone can read the following scripture and not understand.
Quote 1Ti 2:3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;Love in Christ,
MartyHi TT,
Why not call this thread.'Jesus is proven to be his own father'
That is what trinity teaches.
Wake up.Paladin said:
Quote No, Paul said no such thing. He NEVER SAID “CHRIST IS THE ROCK.” In fact, he said nothing at all about “Christ” in the reference cited. He told us something about “that rock.” He said “that rock was anointed.
An anointed lump of minerals? Okay…..
Some of you guys will say the most ridiculous things. That one made my day. 
Paladin's statement proves that anti-trinitarianism has in fact been dealt its final blow.thinker
Marty said:
Quote Hi thethinker: The scripture that I quoted states that God was “in Christ”, and so that means that Jesus is not God. God was dwelling within him. Isn't that what the scripture states?
And I am going to repeat the following scripture, and let that be the end of this discussion with you. I can see that you will not be corrected even if the truth is presented to you in plain terms. I don't see how anyone can read the following scripture and not understand.
1Ti 2:3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;Marty,
You overlooked 1:17,Quote Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen The verses that precede clearly show that “the King eternal, immortal, invisible God” is Jesus! The Father is no where in scripture called “the King.” Jesus Christ is the King. You prove only that you know how to pit saripture against itself. Okay, here it is again,
The Father was NOT Israel's kinsman or blood relative. Jesus is the only person that meets the description in Isaiah 44:6:
*YHWH calls Himself the King of Israel. Jesus is the King of Israel (John 12).
*YHWH calls Himself Israel's blood relative-redeemer. Jesus is Israel's blood relative and redeemer (Rom.1:1-3; 1 Peter 1:18)
*YHWH calls Himself the First and the Last. Jesus called Himself the First and the Last (Rev. 1:8, 17; 22:13 w/20).
*YHWH calls Himself the Almighty. Jesus called Himself the Almighty (Rev. 1:8)
*YHWH called Himself Israel's ONLY ROCK. Paul said that Christ was the ROCK that followed them in the wilderness (1 Corinthians 10:4)
All you have “proved” is that you are bent on pitting scripture against itself.
thinker
Thinker,
The Father takes care of Israel and redeems them. The nation of Israel is as a “firstborn” to Him, therefore the kinsman relationship of a father caring for a child. Also, the Son and angels came “in the name of Yahweh.”
It is not hard,
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ June 19 2009,09:58) Thinker,
The Father takes care of Israel and redeems them. The nation of Israel is as a “firstborn” to Him, therefore the kinsman relationship of a father caring for a child. Also, the Son and angels came “in the name of Yahweh.”
It is not hard,
Kathi
Hi KathiI think you are missing the point! There was never an Angel or any being ever to claim “that they were” those things.
Jesus clearly claims to be those things.
John in his gospel, Chapter 12:38-42 speaks of Jesus Glory as being YHWH when he quotes Isaiah seeing the LORDs, YHWHs Glory in Isaiah chapter 6:1-10.
To him who has ears to hear, let him hear!
Just for Jesus to claim that he is “The Good Shepard” (not that he is just “a” shephard), and yet claim that no man is good but God, should tell the Non-trinitarians something!
Blessings WJ
WJ,
Did you see Paladin's post inwhich he said that the rock that went with the people in the wilderness was not Jesus but an “anointed” rock? Can anti-trinitarian nonsense get more absurd? On another thread Paladin said that Jesus the Son of Man was a “worm.” Now he is saying that a lump of minerals was the “anointed” one in the wilderness.Jesus = a worm
lump of minerals = anointed [one]
Geeeeezz!
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ June 20 2009,07:55) WJ,
Did you see Paladin's post inwhich he said that the rock that went with the people in the wilderness was not Jesus but an “anointed” rock? Can anti-trinitarian nonsense get more absurd? On another thread Paladin said that Jesus the Son of Man was a “worm.” Now he is saying that a lump of minerals was the “anointed” one in the wilderness.Jesus = a worm
lump of minerals = anointed [one]
Geeeeezz!
thinker
You really should research a subject prior to making such assertions.The oil that was used in the old testament to anoint the priests of the most high God was simply that, oil. Why is it so surprising to you to learn that a rock was anointed? If oil can be anointed, so can a rock. And if the oil is used in the anointing, so can a rock be anointed if it serves God's plan for his people.
There is no way the rock of I Cor 10:4 could be “Jesus in the old testament” because he was not begotten until the event of Mat 1:20, therefore did not exist prior to his begettal in Mary's womb.
ANY OTHER DOCTRINE IS JUST THAT – DOCTRINE! Doctrines of men based on creeds rooted in error.
Quote (thethinker @ June 19 2009,15:55) WJ,
Did you see Paladin's post inwhich he said that the rock that went with the people in the wilderness was not Jesus but an “anointed” rock? Can anti-trinitarian nonsense get more absurd? On another thread Paladin said that Jesus the Son of Man was a “worm.” Now he is saying that a lump of minerals was the “anointed” one in the wilderness.Jesus = a worm
lump of minerals = anointed [one]
Geeeeezz!
thinker
Hi JackYes I did. Maybe when Moses anointed the Rock (did he?) the rock came to life and followed them.
Also, for a non-trintarian if Jesus was just a “mere man” then to be true to the scriptures he would have to be a worm to them.
Blessings WJ
WorshippingJesus said:
Quote Hi Jack Yes I did. Maybe when Moses anointed the Rock (did he?) the rock came to life and followed them.
Also, for a non-trintarian if Jesus was just a “mere man” then to be true to the scriptures he would have to be a worm to them.
WJ,
Paladin overlooked that it says that the people drank of that spiritual Rock. This was the “Rock” that went with them in the wilderness. But Paladin wants us to believe that a lump of minerals actually followed them and and that it was the Christ (anointed).
Christ Himself was the “Rock” that went with them. And YHWH said that He was the Rock and that He knows of no other “Rock” (Isaiah 44:8). Ergo….
Paladin overlooks so many things. He surely makes it easy for us.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ June 20 2009,09:49) WorshippingJesus said: Quote Hi Jack Yes I did. Maybe when Moses anointed the Rock (did he?) the rock came to life and followed them.
Also, for a non-trintarian if Jesus was just a “mere man” then to be true to the scriptures he would have to be a worm to them.
WJ,
Paladin overlooked that it says that the people drank of that spiritual Rock. This was the “Rock” that went with them in the wilderness. But Paladin wants us to believe that a lump of minerals actually followed them and and that it was the Christ (anointed).
Christ Himself was the “Rock” that went with them. And YHWH said that He was the Rock and that He knows of no other “Rock” (Isaiah 44:8). Ergo….
Paladin overlooks so many things. He surely makes it easy for us.
thinker
WorshippingJesus said:Quote Hi Jack Yes I did. Maybe when Moses anointed the Rock (did he?) the rock came to life and followed them.
Yeah… kinda like Pharoah's attitude when his magicians cast their rods down and Aaron's rod swallowed their rods. Was the rod alive? Do you suppose it really swallowed their rods? They thought so. Pharoah thought so. Moses thought so, because he recorded the event. God thought so. No big deal, just a natural normal rod, right?
(thinker)
Quote
Paladin overlooked that it says that the people drank of that spiritual Rock. This was the “Rock” that went with them in the wilderness. But Paladin wants us to believe that a lump of minerals actually followed them and and that it was the Christ (anointed).Christ Himself was the “Rock” that went with them. And YHWH said that He was the Rock and that He knows of no other “Rock” (Isaiah 44:8). Ergo….
Paladin overlooks so many things. He surely makes it easy for us.
So you think a pillar of smoke naturally followed them, and a pillar of fire naturally followed them, but a rock of flint can't even when it is anointed?
WILDERNESS OF SIN
Exodus 17:1 And all the congregation of the children of Israel journeyed from the wilderness of Sin, after their journeys, according to the commandment of the LORD, and pitched in Rephidim: and there was no water for the people to drink.
2 Wherefore the people did chide with Moses, and said, Give us water that we may drink. And Moses said unto them, Why chide ye with me? wherefore do ye tempt the LORD?
3 And the people thirsted there for water; and the people murmured against Moses, and said, Wherefore is this that thou hast brought us up out of Egypt, to kill us and our children and our cattle with thirst?4 And Moses cried unto the LORD, saying, What shall I do unto this people? they be almost ready to stone me. 5 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go on before the people, and take with thee of the elders of Israel; and thy rod, wherewith thou smotest the river, take in thine hand, and go. 6 Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel. 7 And he called the name of the place Massah, and Meribah, because of the chiding of the children of Israel, and because they tempted the LORD, saying, Is the LORD among us, or not?” [Exo 17:1-7]
DESERT OF ZIN
“And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 8 Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink. 9 And Moses took the rod from before the LORD, as he commanded him. 10 And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock? 11 And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also. 12 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them. 13 This is the water of Meribah; because the children of Israel strove with the LORD, and he was sanctified in them.[Num 20:7-13]Why do you suppose in the wilderness of sin, Moses was told to strike the rock, and when he did, Israel was given water; and in the desert of Zin YEARS LATER, Moses was told to speak to the rock, but instead he struck it the second time, and because of that, he was not allowed to enter the land of promise?
It was the same rock, miles apart, and years later. Moses had to learn that once the rock is stricken, it does not have to be stricken again, but simply spoken to. And he also had to learn to not let his anger come between his own feelings, and his instructions direct from the mouth of God.
Why do you suppose Paul did NOT say “Christ was the rock” in I Cor 10:4?
1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.”
Israel was not baptized unto Christ, but unto Moses, in the cloud and in the sea; And ate the same spiritual meat, the manna which fell from heaven; and drank of the same spiritual rock, which was anointed.
THAT is what made that rock anointed, it was a “SPIRITUAL ROCK.”
Listen and LEARN.
WJ……….If your referring to the Scripture that says that (CHRIST) was the Rock that followed them in the wilderness, It does not refer JESUS, Lets read it Rightly, FOR THE (ANOINTING) or CHRISTOS, WAS THE ROCK THAT FOLLOWED THEM IN THE WILDERNESS, and some time this atoning is on angles and on men also, Its still an ANOINTING of GOD, NOT A individual PERSON. Trying to force the text as all trinitarians and preexistences do to prove their points just does not work. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Quote (thethinker @ June 16 2009,20:13) Quote (942767 @ June 16 2009,13:10) Quote (thethinker @ June 16 2009,12:40) Jesus said of Himself: “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Rev 1:8
Attn bodhitharta: What was that you said about a “death blow” to trinitarianism?
thinker
Hi thethinker:This is what Jesus meant by saying he was the Alpha and Omega:
Quote Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,
What's your point? Jesus' claim to be the First and the Last is a clear reference to Isaiah 44:6 where YHWH claimed to be the First and the Last. YHWH also said that He was Israel's “goel” which means “blood relative.” The Father was NOT Israel's blood relative. That leaves who?thinker
See, you say blood relative, correct?1 Corinthians 15:49-51 (King James Version)
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
In other words humans cannot be God and God does not have blood nor flesh
Hi PD
First let me say that your condescending, patronizing, and teacher to student attitude does not impress me at all.
In fact if you want to continue dialogue and want someone to hear your teachings then one of the first lessons that someone learns is that mutual respect should be practiced.
I have not once inferred that you were stupid or that you need to “listen and learn” with a pious smarter than thou attitude. If you want dialogue with me then I expect the same respect that I give you.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 19 2009,17:14) Hi Jack Yes I did. Maybe when Moses anointed the Rock (did he?) the rock came to life and followed them.
Quote (Paladin @ June 19 2009,19:13)
Yeah… kinda like Pharoah's attitude when his magicians cast their rods down and Aaron's rod swallowed their rods. Was the rod alive? Do you suppose it really swallowed their rods? They thought so. Pharoah thought so. Moses thought so, because he recorded the event. God thought so. No big deal, just a natural normal rod, right?
Good, so you do believe that God can reveal himself through an inanimate object.I was wondering why you were having so much trouble with believing Christ was the Rock.
Quote (thethinker @ June 19 2009,15:55) Paladin overlooked that it says that the people drank of that spiritual Rock. This was the “Rock” that went with them in the wilderness. But Paladin wants us to believe that a lump of minerals actually followed them and and that it was the Christ (anointed). Christ Himself was the “Rock” that went with them. And YHWH said that He was the Rock and that He knows of no other “Rock” (Isaiah 44:8). Ergo….
Paladin overlooks so many things. He surely makes it easy for us.
Quote (Paladin @ June 19 2009,19:13)
So you think a pillar of smoke naturally followed them, and a pillar of fire naturally followed them, but a rock of flint can't even when it is anointed?
No it is you that is denying that Christ is the anointed Rock! Who was it that was in the pillar of fire and smoke?Quote (Paladin @ June 19 2009,19:13)
Why do you suppose in the wilderness of sin, Moses was told to strike the rock, and when he did, Israel was given water; and in the desert of Zin YEARS LATER, Moses was told to speak to the rock, but instead he struck it the second time, and because of that, he was not allowed to enter the land of promise?
Why can’t you see that the striking of the Rock was Prophetic of Christ being struck on the tree with the curse of sin and because of that he as the baptizer of the Holy Spirit poured out the living waters of his Spirit upon all flesh and as a result of this to strike the Rock twice was crucifying Jesus afresh.Quote (Paladin @ June 19 2009,19:13)
It was the same rock, miles apart, and years later. Moses had to learn that once the rock is stricken, it does not have to be stricken again, but simply spoken to. And he also had to learn to not let his anger come between his own feelings, and his instructions direct from the mouth of God.
Now we simply speak the words of the Lord which are Spirit and life that flows from the Rock. Same Rock, New Covenant!Quote (Paladin @ June 19 2009,19:13)
Why do you suppose Paul did NOT say “Christ was the rock” in I Cor 10:4?
Why do you suppose Paul used the word “Christ” (Christos) that is found 569 times in the NT scriptures, and in every case it is referring to Jesus or a false christ??Quote (Paladin @ June 19 2009,19:13)
1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.”Israel was not baptized unto Christ, but unto Moses, in the cloud and in the sea; And ate the same spiritual meat, the manna which fell from heaven; and drank of the same spiritual rock, which was anointed.
But the key to the verses is they were not baptized “into” Moses. They were baptized in the “cloud and the sea” representing YHWH. They were baptized unto Moses, representing the Law. Again, first that which is natural and then that which is spiritual. Jesus now fulfilling the Old brings in the New Covenant which represents the law of Spirit and life in Christ and he has become our cloud and sea by which we are baptized into.Quote (Paladin @ June 19 2009,19:13)
THAT is what made that rock anointed, it was a “SPIRITUAL ROCK.”Listen and LEARN.
And that “SPIRITUAL ROCK.” was Christ. The Bible says so.Blessings WJ
Quote (Gene @ June 19 2009,19:50) WJ……….If your referring to the Scripture that says that (CHRIST) was the Rock that followed them in the wilderness, It does not refer JESUS, Lets read it Rightly, FOR THE (ANOINTING) or CHRISTOS, WAS THE ROCK THAT FOLLOWED THEM IN THE WILDERNESS, and some time this atoning is on angles and on men also, Its still an ANOINTING of GOD, NOT A individual PERSON. Trying to force the text as all trinitarians and preexistences do to prove their points just does not work. IMO peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Hi GeneType “Christ” in the search for the AV, then tell me if there is one scripture out of the 569 times it is found in the AV if it is refering to anyone but Jesus and false christ!
Blessings WJ
Paladin said:
Quote Why do you suppose Paul did NOT say “Christ was the rock” in I Cor 10:4? Paladin,
Why do you suppose Paul said “spiritual” rock?Quote And they all drank of that spiritual rock…and that [spiritual] rock was the Christ It is evident that you would elevate a lump of minerals at the expense of the One who died for you.
thinker
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