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Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 14 2010,06:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 13 2010,05:54) Hey there D-linquent, Let's forget the rocks and stars for a moment. Do YOU think this scripture refers to the angels and the 4 creatures who worship before Jehovah night and day?
mike
Hey Old Man,
I didnt see your post since it was intermixed with the Nonesense within this thread.Honest Truth i have no Idea,
Would that include them?
I mean what are the boundries of what is called Creation.
Hi D,I don't know either. Paul talks of the “whole creation” groaning, but most of the rest of what he says applies to mankind. And he was quoted as saying “We have preached the good news to “all creation”…….and I'm sure they didn't preach the good news to angels – who ARE a part of “creation”. So I THINK it's obvious that Paul sometimes used “creation” literally, and sometimes as a metaphor meaning “mankind”.
Romans, however might be “literal” and referring to the “mental pain” and “sorrow” and “anguish” that mankind, the angels, Jesus and God have suffered since Adam. We know God is NOT a part of creation, but even He said He came to regret ever making mankind.
So if it is literal and includes “every creature” – which is also what “pas kitisis” can mean along with “all of creation” – then I don't think it includes things that aren't “creatures”, such as rocks. And if it IS literal, then it COULD include the angels AND Jesus. Jesus himself obviously “groans in pain” about us based on his comment about how many times he wished he could take Israel under his wing like a hen with her chicks, but they wouldn't let him.
So where does that leave us? IMO, it's either literal and DOES include Jesus, or it is metaphorically referring to mankind only, which Paul definitely did elsewhere using the same words.
I think it is the latter.
peace and love,
mikeHi All,
What's this I read about the angels being destroyed? Where in scripture is that?
And who said all of mankind will be wiped out? Is that in scripture? Rev 22 talks of New Jerusalem and the vile people aren't allowed to enter. Where did these people come from if all but the elect are wiped out?
And finally, I agree with SF that the scriptures say the old heaven and earth will pass away and there will be new ones.
I don't know if God will “pick us up”, throw away the old earth and “set us back down” on the new one or what. But I think it's presumptuous of anyone to just “assume” that God is only going to “clean” the same earth, for scripture doesn't say that.
And SF answered Ed's scripture very well when he said even if God throws the old earth away and has a new one already waiting for us, it doesn't conflict with the scripture that says the earth shall abide forever.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 14 2010,11:40) Hi All, And SF answered Ed's scripture very well when he said even if God throws the old earth away and has a new one already waiting for us, it doesn't conflict with the scripture that says the earth shall abide forever.
peace and love,
mike
Hi Mike,Once I have sufficiently caused you to understand:
if you and SF choose not to believe, I don't care! (2 Tmothy 4:2-4)
I will then only intervene when it is said to others: insisting ideas are Biblical Truth.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgShow me how what we think isn't scriptural Ed. Show us where it says the earth will just be “cleaned” and not swapped out with a new one?
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 14 2010,15:10) Show me how what we think isn't scriptural Ed. Show us where it says the earth will just be “cleaned” and not swapped out with a new one? mike
Hi Mike,Start reading from my fourth Post on Page three of this thread,
to where we currently are. There are only a few posts.
If you have any questions feel free to ask; OK?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 14 2010,15:37) I read every single post before I posted tonight. And my question remains the same. mike
Hi Mike,Perhaps you didn't fully understand my Posts.
The Greek word translated as elements in 2Peter 3:10 is translated elsewhere as rudiments.
The rudiments are what gets burned up, not terra-fermi. This is easily proved by doing a word study.
The Greek word translated as New in both 2Peter 3:13 and Rev.21:1 is translated as newness in other verses.
Furthermore another Greek word taken from the same root word is translated “Renew”, which is what the verses mean!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 14 2010,05:23) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 14 2010,06:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 13 2010,05:54) Hey there D-linquent, Let's forget the rocks and stars for a moment. Do YOU think this scripture refers to the angels and the 4 creatures who worship before Jehovah night and day?
mike
Hey Old Man,
I didnt see your post since it was intermixed with the Nonesense within this thread.Honest Truth i have no Idea,
Would that include them?
I mean what are the boundries of what is called Creation.
Hi D,I don't know either. Paul talks of the “whole creation” groaning, but most of the rest of what he says applies to mankind. And he was quoted as saying “We have preached the good news to “all creation”…….and I'm sure they didn't preach the good news to angels – who ARE a part of “creation”. So I THINK it's obvious that Paul sometimes used “creation” literally, and sometimes as a metaphor meaning “mankind”.
Romans, however might be “literal” and referring to the “mental pain” and “sorrow” and “anguish” that mankind, the angels, Jesus and God have suffered since Adam. We know God is NOT a part of creation, but even He said He came to regret ever making mankind.
So if it is literal and includes “every creature” – which is also what “pas kitisis” can mean along with “all of creation” – then I don't think it includes things that aren't “creatures”, such as rocks. And if it IS literal, then it COULD include the angels AND Jesus. Jesus himself obviously “groans in pain” about us based on his comment about how many times he wished he could take Israel under his wing like a hen with her chicks, but they wouldn't let him.
So where does that leave us? IMO, it's either literal and DOES include Jesus, or it is metaphorically referring to mankind only, which Paul definitely did elsewhere using the same words.
I think it is the latter.
peace and love,
mike
I “Think” Its literal based on this verse.
21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
And the reason why i say that, because it shows something other than the Sons of God. Mankind(sinners) can always assimilate or be adopted into becoming Sons of God.
And the previous verse explains how it “unwilling” to be subject to vanity and is also in “bondage of corruption”
So i think its in reference to something OTHER than mankind. IMOThe question is What is this Creature that is being referred too?
I think This does not include the Bene-Elohims, nor Jesus.
1. Neither have bondage of corrupition
2. they were not in vanity unwillingly.
3. they dont wait for the earnstly for the maifestation of the Sons of GodVerse 22
Now Verse 22, which states the WHOLE of creation.
I dont know what to make out of it at times.
The funny thing is that in the next verse, Paul says “not only they” so he is clarifying his statement and included “but ourselves also”
>So verse 22 did not include the “Sons of God”- this is a fact.
And than he continues saying that we also wait and groan for the redemption of our bodies.Conclusion:
1) In reference to the creature, i do not believe this includes Jesus and Bene-elohims (angels) because they are not in vanity nor in bondage of corruption.
2)Verse 22- IMO is talking about i think animals and creation such as the earth.
But what is a Fact is that the “sons of God” are not included in vs 22, because of the clarification of vs 23.
3) I think that Paul was trying to make a comparison how We groan and wait for a new body, that Creation also waits for its new “perfect form” as well.
Based on Revelations 21:1, where there will be a new heaven and new earth. IMO maybe its also refers to this.Ed wrote:[/quote]
Quote Hi SF, Eccl.1:4 says that the Earth abideth for ever.
Since when does a question turn into an accusation?
God is going to “Renew” the Earth; rather than destroy it?
Is it not faulty logic for you to infer God will obliterate and then recreate the Earth?
I did answer your question, And as i said before, there will ALWAYS be an earth,
for you to suggest this means that the earth wont be destoryed is faulty.
Wasnt there a FLOOD at one point?
Either idea, suggest that there will always be an earth, whether cleaned OR BRAND NEW.God created you, and he created your body, doesnt scripture say you will have eternal life?
Yet God says that you willl have a NEW bodies, according to Romans creation has the same expectation.Quote 1) I asked you to address Eccl.1:4 in light of your claims
NO You did not, before you accuse me of not quoting you correctly, remember what you actually said,
You said that “are you trying to disprove”
You are not asking me a question about my cliams,
Your asking a question that has a message between the lines that im trying to disprove a verse that i never mentioned.By you stating “are you trying to disprove eccl. 1:4”
Is implying that i made cliaims to disprove eccl. 1:4,
This is what your implying, and any reader who hasnt read the previous posting would be deceived and start thinking that I Sf, made cliams to disprove Eccl 1:4.
This is a false implication on your part.
You could have said ” Say Sf, say homeboy, what up home dog, check out Eccl 1:4, it says forever, man, bro check it out, doesnt that mean it was never be destroyed Ese…?”You see the difference.
Quote 2) What Scripture have I ignored?
What Revealtions 21:1 that there will be a NEW earth, but you ignored what it says next, that the First earth and First heavens have passed away. Your only paying attention to half the verse. The next part says that the FIRST EARTH has passed, so this MEANS that this NEW EARTH is something OTHER than the FIRST EARTH, this must mean the NEW EARTH is the SECOND EARTH.
2 Peter also you said that Elements means rudiements, and its in reference to mankinds teaching or whatever you said, that is also correct but you ignored this includes the earth and heaven as something seperate.
You also ignored romans and added “beacuse of sf” within a text, also giving between the lines messsage of insults.Quote 3) Is it not faulty logic for you to infer God will obliterate and then recreate the Earth?
I didnt say that, I said many times that the heaven and earth will pass away, in what manner, i have no idea.
I have already quoted my back up,
I think it will be done away the same way our bodies willl be made new.Quote 4) Why are you now bearing false witness? (Ex.20:16 / Deut.5:20)First you said: 'Im just posting scripture, if you dont want to believe it thats your problem'
Then I said: “If you don't want to understand what Scripture is saying, it's not my problem!”
So is not you now saying: [[['that i dont want to believe the Truth']]] bearing false witness?
ditto to you sir
I never said that, you claimed in your posts to Terrarica that i dont want to believe the truth. You said this did you not?Quote 5) Are you taking something I said in general as personal? Do you have a guilty conscience?
You said to Terrarica that im believing in false doctrines, thats the way i took it, in a personal matter, i believed it was in referenced to me, so if you did not than clarify yourself.
Was it general or were you talking about me?
I do not have guilty conscience.Quote 6) Here is what I said: “I did the word study for you, what's the matter don't you like this Earth?” Let's try to be a little more accurate when quoting others in the future; OK, SF?
Your implying that i do not like the earth. whether it was a question or not, your implying something.Its like asking: “Ed J you dont like women? “
Than other will think your homosexual based on that question. I would be implying that your a homosexual within my question.
Get the picture?Your implying either in purpose or not, but its not good, I cant tell. why dont you tell me.
Im refuting your implications within your actual question Ed J.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 14 2010,16:30) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 14 2010,04:27) Quote Hi SF, Eccl.1:4 says that the Earth abideth for ever.
Since when does a question turn into an accusation?
God is going to “Renew” the Earth; rather than destroy it?
Is it not faulty logic for you to infer God will obliterate and then recreate the Earth?
I did answer your question, And as i said before, there will ALWAYS be an earth,
for you to suggest this means that the earth wont be destoryed is faulty.
1) Wasnt there a FLOOD at one point?
Either idea, suggest that there will always be an earth, whether cleaned OR BRAND NEW.2) God created you, and he created your body, doesnt scripture say you will have eternal life?
Yet God says that you willl have a NEW bodies, according to Romans creation has the same expectation.
Hi SF,1) The flood did not destroy the Earth, just the life in it.
2) I like your logic here! But point number 1 is a more accurate comparison.
I believe it is an invalid comparison to compare the resurrection of our bodies to the planet as a whole.Let's look a bit closer at your point number 1…
Gen:9:11: And I will establish my covenant with you;
neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood;
neither shall there any more be a flood to
destroy the earth.Would you make God out to be a liar? He promised not to destroy the Earth.
You are using deceitful human logic to say: “He never said he wouldn't destroy it with fire”.
Man lies. God always tall the truth (Heb.6:18), but sometimes man doesn't understand truth. (Isaiah 55:8-9)First God destroyed all flesh in a flood, now he is going to destroy all 'flesh minded' by fire! (at separate times)
Romans 8:6-9 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God,
neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 14 2010,16:30) Quote 1) I asked you to address Eccl.1:4 in light of your claims
NO You did not, before you accuse me of not quoting you correctly, remember what you actually said,
You said that “are you trying to disprove”
You are not asking me a question about my cliams,
Your asking a question that has a message between the lines that im trying to disprove a verse that i never mentioned.By you stating “are you trying to disprove eccl. 1:4”
Is implying that i made cliaims to disprove eccl. 1:4,
This is what your implying, and any reader who hasnt read the previous posting would be deceived and start thinking that I Sf, made cliams to disprove Eccl 1:4.
This is a false implication on your part.
You could have said ” Say Sf, say homeboy, what up home dog, check out Eccl 1:4, it says forever, man, bro check it out, doesnt that mean it was never be destroyed Ese…?”You see the difference.
Hi SF,Is not asking you “are you trying to disprove” also asking you to address Eccl.1:4 in light of your claims?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 14 2010,16:30) Quote 2) What Scripture have I ignored?
What Revealtions 21:1 that there will be a NEW earth, but you ignored what it says next, that the First earth and First heavens have passed away. Your only paying attention to half the verse. The next part says that the FIRST EARTH has passed, so this MEANS that this NEW EARTH is something OTHER than the FIRST EARTH, this must mean the NEW EARTH is the SECOND EARTH.
2 Peter also you said that Elements means rudiements, and its in reference to mankinds teaching or whatever you said, that is also correct but you ignored this includes the earth and heaven as something seperate.
You also ignored romans and added “beacuse of sf” within a text, also giving between the lines messsage of insults.
Hi SF,I have not ignored it, but have explained it.
The rudiments get destroyed, renewing the heaven and the Earth.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 14 2010,16:30) Quote 3) Is it not faulty logic for you to infer God will obliterate and then recreate the Earth?
I didnt say that, I said many times that the heaven and earth will pass away, in what manner, i have no idea.
I have already quoted my back up,
I think it will be done away the same way our bodies willl be made new.
Hi SF,Nice backpeddle, I will accept that as progress!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 14 2010,16:30) Quote 4) Why are you now bearing false witness? (Ex.20:16 / Deut.5:20)First you said: 'Im just posting scripture, if you dont want to believe it thats your problem'
Then I said: “If you don't want to understand what Scripture is saying, it's not my problem!”
So is not you now saying: [[['that i dont want to believe the Truth']]] bearing false witness?
ditto to you sir
I never said that, you claimed in your posts to Terrarica that i dont want to believe the truth. You said this did you not?
Hi SF,Is that what satan has whispered in your ear?
Here is what I said to Terraricca…Quote Hi Terraricca, All any of can do is to expose the truth (as in planting the seed),
it's God's job to make them believe!
NOT OURS!Your brother in
Christ, Jesus!
Ed JI did say this to Mike…
Quote Once I have sufficiently caused you to understand:
if you and SF choose not to believe, I don't care! (2 Tmothy 4:2-4)
I will then only intervene when it is said to others: insisting ideas are Biblical Truth.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 14 2010,16:30) Quote 5) Are you taking something I said in general as personal? Do you have a guilty conscience?
You said to Terrarica that im believing in false doctrines, thats the way i took it, in a personal matter, i believed it was in referenced to me, so if you did not than clarify yourself.
Was it general or were you talking about me?
I do not have guilty conscience.
Hi SF,Here is what I said…
Quote Hi Terraricca, There's a lot of false doctrines out there!
Terraricca, I knew I could count on you!I also said this…
Quote Hi Terraricca, All any of can do is to expose the truth (as in planting the seed),
it's God's job to make them believe!
NOT OURS!If you're believing false doctrines it's God's Job to convict you.
I merely asked you if you had a guilty conscience /God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 14 2010,16:30) Quote 6) Here is what I said: “I did the word study for you, what's the matter don't you like this Earth?” Let's try to be a little more accurate when quoting others in the future; OK, SF?
Your implying that i do not like the earth. whether it was a question or not, your implying something.
Hi SF,I merely thought that since you wanted to believe the Earth would be destroyed that you didn't like it?
Let's put this issue to rest; OK? Do you like this Earth?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 14 2010,16:30) Its like asking: “Ed J you dont like women? “
Than other will think your homosexual based on that question. I would be implying that your a homosexual within my question.
Get the picture?Your implying either in purpose or not, but its not good, I cant tell. why dont you tell me.
Im refuting your implications within your actual question Ed J.
Hi SF,Hey fella, leths keep my thsexuality out of thith OK?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgSf, you said
Quote I didnt say that, I said many times that the heaven and earth will pass away, in what manner, i have no idea. 2nd Peter 3:3 (YLT)
There shall come in the latter end of the days scoffers, according to their own desires going on, and saying, `Where is the promise of his presence? for since the fathers did fall asleep, all things so remain from the beginning of the creation;' for this is unobserved by them willingly, that the heavens were of old, and the earth out of water and through water standing together by the word of God, through which the then world, by water having been deluged, was destroyed;
And the present heavens and the earth, by the same word are treasured, for fire being kept to a day of judgment and destruction of the impious men.
And this one thing let not be unobserved by you, beloved, that one day with the Lord [is] as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day; the Lord is not slow in regard to the promise, as certain count slowness, but is long-suffering to us, not counselling any to be lost but all to pass on to reformation,
And it will come — the day of the Lord — as a thief in the night, in which the heavens with a rushing noise will pass away, and the elements with burning heat be dissolved, and earth and the works in it shall be burnt up.
All these, then, being dissolved, what kind of persons doth it behove you to be in holy behaviours and pious acts? waiting for and hasting to the presence of the day of God, by which the heavens, being on fire, shall be dissolved, and the elements with burning heat shall melt; and for new heavens and a new earth according to His promise we do wait, in which righteousness doth dwell;
Ed,
Quote Eccl:1:4: One generation passeth away, and another
generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.YLT,
“A generation is going, and a generation is coming, and the earth to the age is standing.”
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 14 2010,18:08) Ed, Quote Eccl:1:4: One generation passeth away, and another
generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.YLT,
“A generation is going, and a generation is coming, and the earth to the age is standing.”
Hi Shimmer,If you would stick to the AKJV Bible, you would be a lot less confused!
AKJV Bible = 74
“The AKJV Bible is the most accurate English-speaking Bible we possess
and can be proven to be as anointed as the original texts themselves”.
This idea is PROVEN as God encoded his existence into the AKJV Bible!…………… ……God's signature
YHVH=63 (God's Name: יהוה transliterated into English)
יהוה=26 (God's Name: YHVH is pronounced YÄ-hä-vā)
Jesus=74 (God's Son's Name in English is: “Joshua”)
God The Father=117 (Representing GOD: יהוה האלהים)
HolySpirit=151 (“FATHER: The word”: in all believers!)Psalm 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them (In The AKJV Bible) from this generation for ever.
Isaiah 28:11: For with stammering lips and another tongue(that is English) will he speak to this people.“YHVH is GOD”=117
PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter],
the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)
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