Created or Uncreated

[Proclaimer]

History shows that Greek thinking has had a strong influence on Christianity. Greek thinking demanded that all things fit into 2 categories, i.e., created or uncreated. So according to this type of thinking, Christ was either created or uncreated. This helped immensly in shaping the false doctrine of the Trinity.

Scripture teaches that between the uncreated God and creation, there was an intermediary step. This mediator is Christ who is the Word become flesh. He is the ONLY begotten of God and the only one who has seen God and can declare him.

There is a big jump between God and created beings. In fact we cannot even see God, so forget about trying to comprehend God or even seeing him with your eyes.

1 Timothy 6:15-16
15 which God will bring about in his own time, God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

John 6:46
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

But for us there is the image of God. i.e., Christ, who reveals the invisible God to us. That is why Jesus said “if you have seen me you have seen the Father”. Jesus wasn’t a created angel and nor was he a non-created God. Scripture is clear. He is and was the Word of God. The firstborn son. The only begotten.

Now if we are to correctly understand the truth about rank and where Christ is in relation to God and us. Look at this next scripture:

1 Corinthians 11:3
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

So us created beings have a head who is Christ. BUT Christ also has a head who is GOD.

Can you grasp what this means? It changes the very foundation of most denominations and this is why such teaching is largely ignored today. Men want to cling to that which they create with their own hands. Yes Christ is our origin, for he is our head and we came into being by God through Christ.

God > Christ/Word > Man > Woman.

God > Christ/Word > creation

It isn’t the following as many people advocate:

God> Angel > Man

God-Father > God-Jesus> Man/creation.

Greek thinking sets the stage for the exisitence of those last 2 incorrect points. That is why I am convinced that Greek thinking has contaminated or even formed much of Christianity. Sadly many of these infected people fight to stay infected and try to infect others. But Paul knew about the Greeks and their philosophy, yet he preached “Christ crucified” to them, which was an offence to their proud intellectualism.

So Paul didn’t take the stance of trying to compete with their intellectual understanding of things because he knew the foolishness of God was greater than the wisdom of men. Yet some teachers try to intellectualise false doctrine. But false doctrine is false doctrine, no matter how big the words you use or how impressive it may sound.

Jesus is not created nor is he the uncreated God. Instead, he is the only begotten of God, the Word OF God.

A wise man sticks to revelation from God rather than imagine all kinds of vain imaginations with his own mind from his own spirit and try to create God in an image within his own limited understanding.

[gentleness]

I have found that people are very confused as to the idea of the unity that some call ‘the Godhead.’ They think that to be ‘begotten’ which can simply mean to be ‘brought forth as an offspring’ would mean that the offspring did not exist before being ‘begotten/brought forth.’ That simply is not necessarily so. Even human earthly beings existed for about nine months before being ‘begotten/brought forth.’ Then consider that those same earthly beings had half of their DNA in existence in the ovum within their mother when she was born. So, all that to say, the only begotten Son was never said to have been conceived before the ages, it just says that He was begotten. Being begotten/brought forth doesn’t mean that He did not exist eternally within before being brought forth.

Also, people are confused about how Jesus can be a part of a unity or Godhead when He has a ‘head.’ The common Christian church understands that there are differences of authority within the unity or Godhead. Earthly examples of unities have differing levels of authority, for instance, the husband is the head of the wife yet they are one…a unity.

So, in conclusion, the fact that Jesus is the only begotten Son does not mean that He did not exist eternally within the Father in some manner, before He was begotten.

And, the fact that Jesus has God as His authority doesn’t mean that Jehovah is just God but also Lord and the Unity or Godhead who is both God and Lord has a difference in position. One is the Father and the other is the Son, the Father would naturally be the ‘head’ of the Son.

[Admin]

Many try to say that more than one is God.

History shows that a Binity preceded the Trinity if you look at history.

However according to Paul he says,
“for us there is one God the Father and one lord the lord Jesus Christ”.

You are saying that there is one God the Father and Son.

Your view is at odds with Paul.

And your view is at odds with Jesus as he said:
“May they know you, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.

This of course is not an exhaustive list to prove that the Father is the only true God. No you only have to read every verse where the word God is mentioned. Try replacing it for Binity or Trinity and watch the scriptures break.

[gentleness]

Paul does say that there is:
One God, the Father
AND
One Lord, Jesus Christ

Revelations clearly tell us that Jesus Christ is the Lord of lords.

The OT tells us that Jehovah is:
The God of gods
AND
The Lord of lords

t8,
You would have us think that Jehovah changed from being the God of gods AND the Lord of lords to being just the God of gods. You seem to think that the Lord of lords is no longer Jehovah.

When did Jehovah stop being the Lord of lords?

Also, your trinity test is flawed because it doesn’t allow for replacing ‘God’ with just the Father or just Jesus as is sometimes the case. The unity is not always being referred to.

[Admin]

Just a play on words. Scripture is clear. There is one God the Father and Jesus built his church on the truth that he is the son of God and the messiah. The enemy is attacking these truths with all that he can throw at them. I would be careful about whose side you were on here because ultimately, the enemy cannot prevail.

“Upon this rock I will build my Church.”

What truth?

That Jesus is the son of God and the messiah. It is the enemy that attacks this rock. If you try to destroy this rock, instead you will find yourself being crushed by this rock.

[Anastas]

The old testament does proclaim Jehovah as God of gods and Lord of lords this is true. To us we have a king and savour who is lord over us and proclaimed to be our Lord. But to the Christ, his Father was above everything including himself. So his Father is his God and Lord for He is above all else and even the lord of lords (where christ would be categorized). It is a very weak argument to say Christ Jesus is God because we call him our lord and so he must automatically inherit the spot of lord of lords that’s described in the old testament in regards to Jehovah.

[Author]

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