Crackpottery

[Lightenup]

Mike,
Jesus humanity was brought to life by the Father and because Jesus, as the God/Man Messiah was brought to life, others can live eternally if they depend on Jesus.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 15 2012,23:08)

Mike, Jesus humanity was brought to life by the Father……………

Okay.

Now you just need to SUPPORT that interpretation from the scriptures.

The words your Lord spoke were, “I live because of the Father”. How do you come to your conclusion that “I live” really means “I live AS A HUMAN“?

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 16 2012,11:06)

Pierre, The fact that you keep writing 'his' for 'is' shows me that truth doesn't seem to be important to you.

YOU ARE FUNNY,

Mt 25:25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’
Mt 25:26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed?
Mt 25:27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
Mt 25:28 “ ‘Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents.
Mt 25:29 For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.
Mt 25:30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

understand this

[mikeboll64]

Kathi?

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 16 2012,19:08)

and because Jesus, as the God/Man

Funny that. In 66 books of the bible we never see the word “God/man”.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 13 2012,05:31)

terrarricca, You will have to give account to YHWH for all you careless and foolish false judgements against the Christian, btw.

For foolish false judgements yes. But not for the truth?

[Proclaimer]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 12 2012,15:32)

1) Muhammad,  2) Joseph Smith, and 3) Kathi the light

That is a hard choice.

1) Fly a plane into a building and get 72 virgins.
2) Populate my very own planet with me as the god of that planet.
3) Worship 2 gods as one God echad.

Can I take some time to think this over?

[Proclaimer]

I was wondering of people thought that creating a new Group of users called “Crackpots” was in order?

Usually I am reluctant to do anything like this because Jesus was considered a crackpot to some and thus I like to give everyone a go because often it is the most unlikely of people that have a truth to share or a faith worth learning about.

However, I think it also becomes apparent when someone really is a crackpot after a while and discussing with crackpots in many cases is in itself a crackpot idea because they are so deluded and self-absorbed that they cannot see past their own fantasies and self-importance. Dialog with them becomes a complete waste of time because they only see their own self-importance and preach from their own understanding.

If Jesus showed up here, I am sure that people would recognise his truths and no matter if he was radical, his truth would have us listening. But a crackpot is a crackpot. Let's face it. It becomes evident and unmistakable.

If there was a Group called 'Crackpots'. It could work like this. They are not able to discuss in the Believers Section and the Skeptics Area too, so that they don't damage their chances for salvation by giving a bad witness.

I could create a Crackpot Area where crackpots can discuss or argue among themselves. Otherwise it would be the same as a ban.

Think of it as weeding the garden. It might help keep things fresh and new here, rather than being bogged down refuting Crackpots all the time. I do realise there is an entertainment factor to rebuking these Crackpots, but I don't think it is healthy to be doing this all the time, even if it is necessary to do in order to not let false teaching run rife.

Comments?

[Wakeup]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 16 2012,16:08)

Mike, Jesus humanity was brought to life by the Father and because Jesus, as the God/Man Messiah was brought to life, others can live eternally if they depend on Jesus.

Lightenup.

Is Jesus a kind of hybrid?
The God/man.
This only makes his suffering not equal to mans suffering.
He will be a kind of half brother to us.

wakeup.

[Lightenup]

Hi Wakeup,
Are you familiar with the fact that the Son of God is the root and the shoot of Jesse?
He is the 'root' because the Father through the Son produced the generations according to His (the Son's) deity.
He is the 'shoot' because He became man as an offspring of Jesse and David's line according to the flesh.

He didn't stop being the 'root' to become the 'shoot.' He was and is fully the 'root' now and also fully the 'shoot' since He became man. As the 'shoot' He suffered and died according to the flesh.  The Bible will speak of Him sometimes as the 'root' and sometimes as the 'shoot' and how that works together is a mystery but He is full of mystery and we cannot fully explain Him. We take this truth by faith in the Word of God. Isaiah 11 and Rev 5:5 and Hebrews 15:12.

Rev 22:16
“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

The two natures are referred to elsewhere as Son of God/Son of Man and sometimes the context clarifies which nature by adding 'according to the flesh' and I believe that Thomas 'got it' when He declared Jesus to be the Lord (master according to the flesh) and the God (according to the deity) of Him.

Thank you for making a post that didn't follow the arrogant spirit of those before you. They do not know what they are saying when they try to imply what I believe.  Please ask me if you wonder about what it is that I believe.

God bless!

[Lightenup]

Oh and Wakeup, you asked if the Son was a half brother to us. Well, the Son was the only begotten Son and we are the adopted 'sons.' The Son was the only one to come 'out of' the Father as an offspring before creation. All other things did not come 'out of' the Father. All other things were called into being. The Son was within Him before coming 'out of' Him. Because the Son came 'out of' the Father as a literal and only offspring before creation, He is also the only begotten God.
John 1:18 NASB

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 11 2013,11:45)

He didn't stop being the 'root' to become the 'shoot.' As the 'shoot' He suffered and died according to the flesh.

If he never stopped being the Root, how is it that only the Shoot part of him suffered and died?

I believe that Jesus died as the savior God sent. I don't believe that “only the shoot part of him” died. That would make him only HALF of a savior.

[Lightenup]

Mike,
Only the 'shoot' part was die-able.

Quote

That would make him only HALF of a savior.

Is the Father only half of a savior since He didn't die, Mike? No, so the Son isn't either because the 'root' part of Him wasn't die-able, only the shoot could suffer and die, and did.

[Proclaimer]

What you are saying LU is that he didn't die.

You can't half die or one-tenth die. That is not death.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 12 2013,07:54)

The Son was the only one to come 'out of' the Father as an offspring before creation.

Yet you say he was an offspring forever past if I remember rightly.

He eternally comes out of the Father is your stance I think.

I just believe he came from the Father. No strings attached. It is what it is.

[Lightenup]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 11 2013,14:46)

What you are saying LU is that he didn't die. You can't half die or one-tenth die. That is not death.

Nope that is not what I am saying.
The shoot died, the root didn't.

Have you seen a plant with a dead stem but the plant remained alive? Oh well, ask a gardener.

[Lightenup]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 11 2013,14:49)

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 12 2013,07:54) The Son was the only one to come 'out of' the Father as an offspring before creation. Yet you say he was an offspring forever past if I remember rightly. He eternally comes out of the Father is your stance I think. I just believe he came from the Father. No strings attached. It is what it is.

t8,

Quote

He eternally comes out of the Father is your stance I think.

Never said that.

I said that I think He was INSIDE the Father eternally past as an offspring yet to be begotten, then before creation, He was begotten OUT OF the Father. No strings attached. Always existent, always a Son, not always begotten.

Another thing you got wrong about what I have said. They are stacking up. Please don't try to express what I believe. You are failing in this regard. Sorry!

I never said that He was an eternal Holy Spirit that came forth as a Son either, which you said elsewhere. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else.

Lying about each other is against what God would have us to do.

The Son was begotten by God the Father before creation as the Son of God/the 'root'. The Son was begotten by Mary, conceived by the Holy Spirit, as the Son of Man/the 'shoot' much later.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 12 2013,14:03)

I said that I think He was INSIDE the Father eternally past as an offspring yet to be begotten, then before creation, He was begotten OUT OF the Father. No strings attached. Always existent, always a Son, not always begotten.

So he was a son, and then he was begotten as that son. You may be edging closer to reality LU. Well done.

So you admit then that he had a beginning at least when he was begotten. I am sure you argued that he was eternally begotten though. Is that right Mike?

So as it stands now, you are saying that Jesus is the only son in existence that was a son and yet not begotten. And being begotten had nothing to do with him being a son, because he was a son before he was begotten.

I would have thought that the word son had inbuilt within it, the idea of being someone's offspring.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 12 2013,14:03)

I said that I think He was INSIDE the Father eternally past as an offspring yet to be begotten, then before creation, He was begotten OUT OF the Father. No strings attached. Always existent, always a Son, not always begotten.

Here is how Hippolytus (ca. 230 A.D) puts it.

The first and Only, both Creator and Lord of all, had nothing coeval with Himself… He was One, Alone in Himself…. this Solitary and Supreme Deity, by an act of reflection, brought forth the Word first, not the Word in the sense of being expressed by voice, but as a Reason of the cosmos, conceived and residing in the Divine mind. Him alone He produced from existing things, for the Father Himself constituted existence, and the being born from Him was the cause of all things that are produced. The Word was in the Father Himself, bearing the will of his Progenitor, and not being unacquainted with the mind of the Father. For simultaneously with his procession from His Progenitor, inasmuch as he is this Progenitor’s firstborn, he has, as a voice in himself, the concepts conceived in the Father. And so it was, that when the Father ordered the world to come into existence, the Word one by one completed each object of creation, thus pleasing God…. God, who is the source of all authority, wished that the Word might render assistance in accomplishing a production of this kind…. The Word alone of this God is from God himself, wherefore also the Logos is God [that is, “deity,” in the sense of nature of substance], being the substance of God….

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 12 2013,13:50)

Have you seen a plant with a dead stem but the plant remained alive? Oh well, ask a gardener.

Jesus is the vine and we are the branches.

So if Jesus is the root and shoot and a stem dies, and the plant still lives. Then the plant didn't die.

But central to true faith in Christ is that he died for us and was raised up afterward. Not that only a part of him died.

Be careful not to introduce a new false doctrine. You will also be responsible for those that might trip over this new stumbling block of yours too.

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