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T8……Is that right, then why did God say “HE” WOULD TAKE OUT OF US THE HEARTS OF STONE AND “GIVE” a soft heart ans write his statues and law on our inward part. After all don’t you believe it all up to us to chose by our own so-called freewills. Seems you have a dilemma to deal with.
Did you ever check out your fellow countrymans views about freewills. Go to this site and see what you think
God’s Golden Knight.
peace and love to you and yours……….gene
Free will among the options Gene. We cannot choose any option, but from the available options.
I cannot go to the moon right now. It is not a current option for me.
God directs our footsteps, but we choose where we put our feet.
T8…..O REALLY, ….Paul sure did not think that, read Rom 7:14-24 solwely this time and think clearly about what he is saying, he sure did not think his will was FREE at all, but bound by lusts and desires working in him bringing him into a state of captivity, he was harhly free nor was his will it self free either.
peace and love to you and yours………………gene
Yes his flesh was keeping him captivated to its desires, but God was also leading him and God gives strength. So here are the options. Follow the spirit or serve the flesh. If we are compelled to both, but can only do one at a time, then obviously it is us who choose when we serve God or when we succumb to the flesh.
God always gives a way out Gene and never allows us to be tested beyond what we can endure.
But know this, when we sin (and we will), we have a covenant with God and we can confess our sins to him and he is just and able to forgive us our sins.
- Flesh or Spirit
- Kingdom of God or the world
- God or Satan
- Light or Darkness
- Love or Hate
- Give and receive or bribe and steal
Ultimately we are judged on which side of these we land on.
God has not abandoned us to the negative of these things. He has made it so we can choose this day whom and what we will serve.
Have you read anything in the Bible. It is full of such examples. Why let some silly pet doctrine negate half the verses in the Bible?
Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog’s neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine’s blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
Isaiah 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.
wakeup.
Yes WU. So when people reject God, they receive their reward. But they could have chosen God. But they chose him not.
Wakeup…..NONE DID ANSWER, SO MUCH FOR FREEWILLS RIGHT THEY dont work because NONE ANSWERED GOD’S CALL.
Therefore it say ,GOD TOOK IT UPON HIS “OWN” ARM TO BRING SALVATION. I DO NOT SEE ANY SO-CALLED FREEWILL CHOICE CHOSING TO ANSWER GOD,DO YOU?
peace and love to you and yours……………..gene
Gene, if one-third of the angels, a whole household, a nation, a race, reject God, then that is not proof that there is no free will, it is simply that these have chosen for different reasons to not choose God. Perhaps God’s way is hard and they prefer an easy life. Who knows. But know that no matter how wicked men become, there will always be people that choose him. Abel, Elijah, Noah, Moses, John the Baptist, Paul, etc.
If all men reject God and God provides a way to come back to him, then there is a choice right there. If men do not know God, so he sends them prophets, then there is a choice right there. They don’t have to listen to the prophets do they. They choose whether to or not. If I lived in the Amazon 2500 years ago, I may not have a prophet or an evangelist, but every man has a conscience.
Conscience is Con+Science. Science means knowledge. We all have knowledge of good and evil. You cannot run from your own conscience. It is a witness that all men have. You can rebel against it and sear it, but you choose to do that.
Stop pretending that God doesn’t give you choices that you can choose among.
If I said to you that you can no longer post in this topic, you would choose whether to post or listen to me. So let’s try it out.
“You can no longer post in this topic.” I say this as a fellow member, not as a moderator.
Lets see if you have a choice to do what I say or ignore me.
I await to see what you freely choose.
Gene what is your underlying reason for this argument?
Is there a sin that you cannot control and thus you have decided that you have no choice in the matter but to sin?
T8…… FIRST OF ALL, WHY LIE ABOUT WHAT I HAVE SAID, SHOW ME ONE PLACE WHERE I HAVE SAID “WE HAVE NO CHOICES” I NEVER SAID THAT, LYING SEEMS TO BE A PROBLEM FOR YOU T8, PERHAPS YOU HAVENT LEARNED TO NOT BEAR FALSE WITTINESS YET. Here is another one for you digest if you can,
1jhon1:8….> IF WE SAY WE HAVE NO SIN, WE “DECIEVE” OURSELVES, AND THE TRUTH IS “NOT” IN US.
SO HOW DOES THAT APPLY TO YOU T8, OR DO YOU HAVE A UNDERLYING REASON FOR SAYING WHAT “YOU” SAY, PERHAPS “THE PRIDE OF LIFE”, SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU WANT YOUR OWN WAY, WHICH WE KNOW IS FROM THE WORLD.
peace and love to you and yours. ……………..gene
Are we required to be either Jesus or a prophet of God in order to use the scriptures for “teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness”? (2 Tim 3:16)
Believe me, it is the IDEAS that I rebuke scripturally – not their character. But in the process of rebuking one of their ideas that they really, really WANT to be the scriptural truth, their real character is soon displayed for all to see.
Amen to that.
Gene, you deny that we can choose freely among the allowable choices. So that means that Adam and Eve could not freely eat from any tree in the garden.
Case closed Gene because you clearly deny scripture that teaches and demonstrates that men can choose freely and choose God or choose the flesh and the world.
Yes Gene, we all have sin and especially me. But my heart is to serve God and to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. I fail many times. But I have a covenant with God that when I do sin, I can confess my sins and he will forgive me because he said he will.
I brought this up Gene because you are so bent on the idea that God did not allow men to choose freely that it makes me wonder what your underlying reason is for denying what we clearly see in scripture. I was thinking maybe there is a sin that worries you and the way you cope with it is to believe that you have no choice in the matter because there is no free will.
Deal with sin in a truthful way. Admit it, confess it, and ask for forgiveness. No need pretend that you are not responsible for your choices Gene.
T8…… AGAIN YOU FAIL TO ANSWER THE LIE I ACCUSED YOU OF, JUST IGNORE AND GO ON, BUT AGAINTHAT SEEMS TOBE YOU T8, SO,Yes perhaps your conceptions are right for you at least?. After all you have rejected many, many,many scriptures i have directly quoted on this subject over and over and over. You on the other hand have not produced a single scripture that say’s “A MAN’S WILL IS “FREE”. Don’t you think that is strange not one in all the bible says that? Again for the hundreth time , i am not saying, nor have said, we don’t have a WILL, AND WE DON’T MAKE CHOICES. That is you false ‘ASSUMPTIONS”, along with many others you have reguarding scriptures. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ……………gene
Gene, did God allow man to FREELY choose to eat from any tree in the garden except one?
Yes or no.
If you say yes, then you agree that God give us the ability to choose freely among options tha the makes available to us.
If you answer no, then you oppose that verse in Genesis.
Which is wrong? That verse in Genesis or you?
T8…..I don’t need a NOVEST like you seem to be, to tell me what to do when or if i sin, your assumptions of me having a sin i have not dealt with is false, as many of your asssumptions i believe are. I knew about what to do about my sins, probably before you were even born, i don’t know how old you are, but i know I’m old and have dealt with my sins in the past and in the present many times, i dislike people who try to exhault themselves by giving uninvited advice on anothers sins, espically when they haven’t been ask to, and have as much or more sins in their OWN life, then the person their addressing has.
Face it T8, you couldn’t prove yourself right, you start your personal attacks, slanders, and accusations, thinking that somehow positions you as right, and the other person wrong. Then you say things the other person did not even say, all the time jocking for a position. I have noticed this with severial people here, you can’t show by scriptures you are right by answering the scriptures posted to you, so you just start attacking the person themselves labeling them unforgiven sinners. Then when confronted with this, try to use what the apostles said to their followers to justify your own accusitory spirit.
IS THAT NOT WHAT THE PHARISSIES DID TO JESUS AND THE APOSTLES? HAVE YOU NOW BECAME A SERVANT OF SATAN BY BEING AN ACCUSOR OF THE BRETHERN?, SHAME ON YOU T8
LET’S JUST TRY TO STAY ON SUBJECT MATTER, AVOIDING ANY PERSONAL ATTACKS, IF WE CAN DO THAT WE WILL ALL GROW IN LOVE TOWARD ONE ANOTHER. AFTER ALL WE ARE SUPOSED TO BE “EDIFYING” ONE ANOTHER HERE RIGHT?, IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
Understand that I am not accusing you of anything. I am trying to understand why you hold this view contrary to what scripture teaches and demonstrates. I had a guess and used words like perhaps and maybe. Where did I ever say otherwise. I mean really how would I know if this was the case or not? But now you have me wondering all the more. Obviously your touchy reaction means I have hit a nerve.
Gene, let your yes be yes and no be no.
Did God let man eat FREELY from any tree in the Garden of Eden with the exception of one tree?
Yes
No
?
T8…My touchy responce has nothing with you hitting a nerve, it has to do with your arogant remarks. The answer to you questin is, Yes he did, now what that got to do with the will working in the man? Liberty to excercise a will does not make the will itself free of what is ifluencing it and Causing it.
peace and love to you and yours. …………….gene
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