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Quote (2besee @ July 08 2013,05:19) The name Elohim, which is not an exception to this rule, comes from the Hebrew root el, which means “might” or “power.”
2B,Do you agree with the source that YOU quoted? Do you now agree with me that the Hebrew word “el” simply means “might”, or “power”?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 10 2013,04:45) Quote (2besee @ July 08 2013,05:19) The name Elohim, which is not an exception to this rule, comes from the Hebrew root el, which means “might” or “power.”
2B,Do you agree with the source that YOU quoted? Do you now agree with me that the Hebrew word “el” simply means “might”, or “power”?
Mike,It does not say that. It states its “root” means …
2bee
Quote But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Matthew 7:14Few by who's count? Mans?
Jesus left it an open number ,
Quote Will knowledge alone save you? it all depend what you do with it , understand the knowledge would be a first ,apply it would be a second ,and loving what you know and practice would a third ,
this Sums it up nicely ,Quote Obedience, and faith. obedience is for the beginners ,so is faith ,see the previous note about knowledge ,THE DAY YOU WOULD HAVE REACH THE FAITH OF THE TRUE BELIEVERS YOU WOULD NO LONGER HAVE DOUBTS ,AND WILL WALK IN GOD'S WAY 24/7
Ps 9:15 The nations have fallen into the pit they have dug;
their feet are caught in the net they have hidden.
Ps 9:16 The LORD is known by his justice;
the wicked are ensnared by the work of their handsQuote (2besee @ July 09 2013,03:32) Mike, Your quote says that Satan said the man would “become like the god's “.
Genesis 3:5 – My Bible (the RSV) says that Satan said that the man would “become like God “.
There is a big difference in “become like THE GODS” and “become like GOD”.
In the phrase, “knowing good from evil” in Gen 3:5, the word “knowing” is in the Hebrew plural form, which suggests “gods”, and not one “God”.But if you insist on the “like God” translation, then when God says the same exact thing in Gen 3:22 (“the man has become like one of US”), who is the “US”?
See? Your understanding has Satan saying, “You will become like God (ONE BEING)”; and then God says, “They have become like US (MULTIPLE BEINGS)”. That doesn't fit the context, 2B.
The only reason the Trinitarian sponsored translations have “like God” in 3:5 is because it allows them to claim the “like US” in 3:22 is a triune godhead proof text…….. as if one of the three persons in the godhead was saying “like US” to the other two persons in the godhead. So they translate it as “like God” – knowing full well that the word “knowing” is in the PLURAL form, and not the SINGULAR form.
You need to watch out for this kind of biased translating.
At any rate, please answer the bolded part of my post.
Quote (kerwin @ July 09 2013,17:15) Mike, It does not say that. It states its “root” means …
Actually Kerwin,It says that ELOHIM comes from the Hebrew ROOT “el”, which means “mighty” or “power”. “El” is the root they're talking about.
Quote (2besee @ July 09 2013,03:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 09 2013,15:08) To All, God created the heavens, the earth, the sea, and EVERYTHING in them. That would include angels, right?
Mike and Kerwin,Created was the heavens, the earth, and all that is visible in the heavens and the earth, obviously.
Created by God's word and spirit.But, angels are invisible.
Acts 4:24
When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “you made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.”I don't see “only visible things” in that verse. In fact, I don't remember EVER seeing anything in scripture that implies God only created VISIBLE things. Where are you getting this, 2B?
Quote (2besee @ July 09 2013,03:32) Since when and where have angels been called “gods”?
Many times in scripture, 2B. Psalm 8:5 says God made man lower than the ELOHIM (gods). That verse was later quoted in Hebrews as “God made man a little lower than the ANGELS”, because the inspired writer of Hebrews understood that the word “elohim” that David used when he wrote the psalm referred to divine heavenly beings, ie: “angels”.Satan is a [fallen] angel of God, right? Read 2 Cor 4:4.
There are many more I am willing to show you, but let's see what you say about these two first.
Quote if you insist on the “like God” translation, then when God says the same exact thing in Gen 3:22 (“the man has become like one of US”), who is the “US” Mike,
Possibly :'Majestic plural' (example, Queen Victoria in the 1900's, 'We are not amused,' referring to herself).
With the Spirit (also called in scripture: the eternal spirit; the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of the Son, and the Spirit of Christ)
With the Angels.
Mike,
Quote Acts 4:24 When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “you made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.” I don't see “only visible things” in that verse. In fact, I don't remember EVER seeing anything in scripture that implies God only created VISIBLE things. Where are you getting this, 2B?
God is the source of all things, the visible and the invisible. I was looking for a difference in the way that the visible was created and the way that the invisible came to be, that's all. (deep thinking)
I will say no more here now on that.
Quote Psalm 8:5 says God made man lower than the ELOHIM (gods). That verse was later quoted in Hebrews as “God made man a little lower than the ANGELS”, because the inspired writer of Hebrews understood that the word “elohim” that David used when he wrote the psalm referred to divine heavenly beings, ie: “angels”. Mike,
Is that all that you have? One verse (psalms 8:5)?
How come everywhere else in the Bible, the word for angels is 'angels', and NOT 'elohim'.389 times to be exact.
Quote (2besee @ July 09 2013,01:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 09 2013,15:08) To All, God created the heavens, the earth, the sea, and EVERYTHING in them. That would include angels, right?
Mike and Kerwin,Created was the heavens, the earth, and all that is visible in the heavens and the earth, obviously.
Created by God's word and spirit.But, angels are invisible.
The only place that I have seen where it states that the invisible things were “created” is in Collosions – which is possible fraudulent and written to support later beliefs (according to wikipedia).
Where this is leading to, I do not know.
Only my thoughts for today.
Hi 2b,Prov.8:22 Jehovah possessed me(Wisdom) in the beginning of his way, Before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, Before the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth, When there were no fountains abounding with water.
25Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills was I brought forth;
26While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, Nor the beginning of the dust of the world.
27When he established the heavens, I was there: When he Set a Circle Upon the face of the deep,
:14 Counsel is mine, and sound knowledge: I am understanding; I have might.
Is.11:2 And the Spirit of Jehovah shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah.
Job38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said,
2″Who is this that darkens counsel By words without knowledge?
3″Now gird up your loins like a man, And I will ask you, and you instruct Me!
4″Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell [Me], if you have understanding,
5Who set its measurements? Since you know. Or who stretched the line on it?
6″On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone,
7 When the Morning Stars sang together And all the *Sons of God* shouted for joy?
Rev.22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and *Morning Star.*
Peace brother…..
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 10 2013,05:46) Quote (kerwin @ July 09 2013,17:15) Mike, It does not say that. It states its “root” means …
Actually Kerwin,It says that ELOHIM comes from the Hebrew ROOT “el”, which means “mighty” or “power”. “El” is the root they're talking about.
Mike,El is a shortened form of 'ayil which means ram, strong man, and other things. Both 'ayil and 'uwl come from an unused root meaning twist and by implications strong.
Note: Trace word el's origions
Quote (kerwin @ July 10 2013,17:46) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 10 2013,05:46) Quote (kerwin @ July 09 2013,17:15) Mike, It does not say that. It states its “root” means …
Actually Kerwin,It says that ELOHIM comes from the Hebrew ROOT “el”, which means “mighty” or “power”. “El” is the root they're talking about.
Mike,El is a shortened form of 'ayil which means ram, strong man, and other things. Both 'ayil and 'uwl come from an unused root meaning twist and by implications strong.
Note: Trace word el's origions
Kerwin,I was merely repeating the words that were said in 2B's source, right? And 2B's source DID say what I said, right?
Even according to YOUR source, the word “el” STILL ends up meaning “strong”, or “mighty”, right?
And that agrees with James Strong, the TWOT, the G/K concordance, NETNotes, the Catholic Encyclopedia, and dozens of other experts, right?
So are we in agreement that the word “el” means “mighty”, “strong”, “power”?
Quote (2besee @ July 10 2013,03:07) Quote if you insist on the “like God” translation, then when God says the same exact thing in Gen 3:22 (“the man has become like one of US”), who is the “US” Mike,
Possibly :'Majestic plural' (example, Queen Victoria in the 1900's, 'We are not amused,' referring to herself).
With the Spirit (also called in scripture: the eternal spirit; the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of the Son, and the Spirit of Christ)
With the Angels.
2B,Your third guess is the only one that makes sense to me. And since you agree that it IS one of the possibilities, let's assume God WAS talking to the angels when He said, “the man has become like US”. Now doesn't that lend credence to the near certainty that those very same angels were the ones Satan called gods when he said, “you will become like the gods”?
Quote (2besee @ July 10 2013,04:24) Mike,
Is that all that you have? One verse (psalms 8:5)?
How come everywhere else in the Bible, the word for angels is 'angels', and NOT 'elohim'.389 times to be exact.
No it's not “all I have”, 2B.I also listed 2 Cor 4:4 for you.
I also said these words: “There are many more I am willing to show you, but let's see what you say about these two first.”
I don't want to overwhelm you, 2B. Just focus on the first two (Psalm 8:5 and 2 Cor 4:4) for now.
Can you refute that angels were the ones David called gods in Psalm 8:5?
Can you refute that Satan is called god in 2 Cor 4:4, or that he is himself an angel of God?
If you can't refute these things, then maybe it's time you start to acknowledge and accept them.
2B, it has never been my intention to trick you or pull the wool over your eyes. I am merely sharing with you things that I learned from the holy, inspired scriptures themselves. You're going to either have to accept those things, or keep living in a world of denial.
Quote (abe @ July 10 2013,11:41) Job38:7 When the Morning Stars sang together And all the *Sons of God* shouted for joy? Rev.22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and *Morning Star.*
So the Morning Stars sang together when God created the earth? And Jesus calls himself the bright Morning Star?Is there any scriptural reason to think he wasn't one of the Morning Stars who sang when God created the earth?
Is there any scriptural reason to dismiss the thought that “BRIGHT Morning Star” seems to place Jesus higher than the other Morning Stars, as if maybe he was the firstborn of them all?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 11 2013,06:45) Quote (kerwin @ July 10 2013,17:46) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 10 2013,05:46) Quote (kerwin @ July 09 2013,17:15) Mike, It does not say that. It states its “root” means …
Actually Kerwin,It says that ELOHIM comes from the Hebrew ROOT “el”, which means “mighty” or “power”. “El” is the root they're talking about.
Mike,El is a shortened form of 'ayil which means ram, strong man, and other things. Both 'ayil and 'uwl come from an unused root meaning twist and by implications strong.
Note: Trace word el's origions
Kerwin,I was merely repeating the words that were said in 2B's source, right? And 2B's source DID say what I said, right?
Even according to YOUR source, the word “el” STILL ends up meaning “strong”, or “mighty”, right?
And that agrees with James Strong, the TWOT, the G/K concordance, NETNotes, the Catholic Encyclopedia, and dozens of other experts, right?
So are we in agreement that the word “el” means “mighty”, “strong”, “power”?
Mike,It is Strong's I used in tracing the word origins back to a word meaning twist who's implications is strength. That word's implication is used to describe a ram as well as the most high. It is used in both cases because it is a symbolism of both.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 10 2013,17:17) Quote (abe @ July 10 2013,11:41) Job38:7 When the Morning Stars sang together And all the *Sons of God* shouted for joy? Rev.22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and *Morning Star.*
So the Morning Stars sang together when God created the earth? And Jesus calls himself the bright Morning Star?Is there any scriptural reason to think he wasn't one of the Morning Stars who sang when God created the earth?
Is there any scriptural reason to dismiss the thought that “BRIGHT Morning Star” seems to place Jesus higher than the other Morning Stars, as if maybe he was the firstborn of them all?
Hi Mike,Jn.1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
Col.1:13 who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love; 14in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins:
15who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 for In him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created Through him, and unto(into) him;17 and he is before all things, and In him all things consist.
Do you believe the Son is in All?
Peace brother….
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