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Hi Berean, I think that is a question of semantics that doesn’t really change anything. Whether rock and mud already existed within the waters or those things were created FROM the waters (2 Pet 3:5: “the earth was made FROM water and THROUGH water”) makes no major difference, because the point remains that it wasn’t until the 3rd day that the earth (ie: DRY land) began to exist.
There was no dry land (ie: “earth”) until day 3, nor anything named “earth” until day 3 when it began to exist and God named it earth.
Carmel: PROCREATION IS NOT A ONE-MAN JOB!
Then you better tell that to Genesis 5, which is loaded with all kinds of instances of a man (SINGULAR) begetting children. And tell it to Eve too, who said, “with the help of Yahweh, I [SINGULAR] have created a man”.
Tell me about Gen 2:4 now…
4This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made them.
Do both words (“created” and “made”) refer to the same heaven and earth in this verse, Carmel?
We can see it like this, Mike, the new life (of the earth, the new man) begins to come out of the waters of baptism with the fruits of the Spirit….
Mike…….This song fits you brother, “don’t let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy” ,look , Gen 1v1 , plainly says, In the beginning God, created the heavens and the earth . And the earth “was” or came to be (the argument is not about what it came to be, but WHEN IT DID)
Was it before or after God’s six day creation period ? Right. Our focus should be on the word (was) just as Frank Netle driving point was. You keep deverting attention all over the place, which cause yourself and everyone to lose track , by bringing in to the debate all kind of varables that are not at the core of the debate.
This debate is ……Did this earth and the heavens exist “before” the first day of Gods present creation take place?
I say, the “key” word is the word (WAS) . In verse 2, I say that word strongly indicates it did prexist “before” , the Six day creation took place, the heavens, as well as the waters covering this earth also. Modern science backs that up also, in many ways.
You knock down the word “WAS”, Then you might have a fighting chance Mike, IMO
Peace and love to you and your Mike………..gene
Gene
THE WORD OF GOD TELLS US AND IT IS GOD HIMSELF WHO DECLARED IT ON MOUNTAIN SINAI
Remember the day of rest, to keep it holy.
20:9 Thou shalt work six days, and thou shalt do all thy work.
20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath day of the LORD your God: you shall do no work, neither you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor the stranger who is within your gates.
20:11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens, the earth, and the sea, and all that is in them,
and rested on the seventh day: therefore the LORD blessed the day rest and sanctified it.
For in six days the LORD made the heavens, the earth, and the sea, and all that is in them,
WHAT ARE YOU SAYING , GENE?
God in the Flesh
For starters, though Yahweh may have wound up “in a realm apart”—a remote, even transcendent God, whose presence is felt subtly—this is not the kind of god that comes across in the earliest scriptures, fragments of the Bible that may go back as far as the closing centuries of the second millennium BCE. In fact, even in the first millennium BCE, when most if not all of Genesis took shape, God was a hands-on deity. He personally “planted” the Garden of Eden, and he “made garments of skins” for Adam and Eve “and clothed them.” And he doesn’t seem to have done these things while hovering ethereally above the planet. After Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, according to Genesis, “they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden at the time of the evening breeze, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden.” Hiding may sound like a naïve strategy to deploy against the omniscient God we know today, but apparently he wasn’t omniscient back then.
For “the Lord God called to the man, and said to him, ‘Where are you?’”
In short, Yahweh is at this point remarkably like all those “primitive” gods of hunter-gatherer societies and chiefdoms: strikingly human—with supernatural power, to be sure, but not with infinite power. It may seem strange that the God who created the whole universe would be limited in his range. But it isn’t clear that the God who is “walking” through the Garden of Eden did create the universe. True, he created the earth and sky, and he created human beings (out of dust). But the part about creating stars and the moon and the sun and light itself—the story in the first chapter of Genesis—seems to have been added later. In the beginning, so far as we can tell, Yahweh was not yet a cosmic creator.
And if you go back to the poems that most scholars consider the oldest pieces of the Bible, there’s no mention of God creating anything. He seems more interested in destroying; he is in large part a warrior god. What some believe to be the oldest piece of all, Exodus 15, is an ode to Yahweh for drowning Egypt’s army in the Red Sea. It begins, “I will sing to the Lord, for he has triumphed gloriously; horse and rider he has thrown into the sea… the Lord is a warrior.” If Yahweh starts life as a warrior god, not a CEO, much less chairman of the board, who is running the universe? The answer seems to be that various other gods were. Back then polytheism reigned. The point here isn’t just that some Israelites worshipped gods other than Yahweh; that much has long been clear to even the casual Bible reader. (Much of the Bible’s plotline can be summarized as:
Israelites fall for non-Yahweh gods, Yahweh punishes them, Israelites mend their ways, only to stray again from fidelity, get punished again, and so on.) The point, rather, is that even Israelites who didn’t worship gods other than Yahweh still believed in their existence. Early affirmations of devotion to Yahweh don’t single him out for being the only god, just for being the best god for the Israelites, the one you should worship. That ancient hymn to Yahweh, “man of war,” asks this question: “Who is like thee, O Lord, among the gods?” Indeed, the Bible sometimes mentions other gods matter-of-factly. In the book of Numbers, for example, when the Moabites are conquered, it says that their god Chemosh “has made his sons fugitives, and his daughters captives.” And when the Bible doesn’t note the existence of other gods, it may imply as much. The scriptures warn Israelites not to “serve other gods and bow down to them” lest “the anger of the Lord will be kindled against you.” Would the Bible’s authors (here and elsewhere) have warned against “serving” other gods if those gods didn’t even exist? And would Yahweh have declared himself “a jealous god” if there were no gods to be jealous of? Apparently God himself didn’t start life as a monotheist. Even God’s most famous demand for devotion—“You shall have no other gods before me,” as he puts it in Exodus—hardly excludes the existence of other gods.
In other words, before Israelite religion denied the existence of all gods other than Yahweh, it went through a phase of granting their existence but condemning their worship (by Israelites, at least; if the Moabites wanted to worship Chemosh, that was their business). In technical terms, Israelite religion reached monotheism only after a period of “monolatry”—exclusive devotion to one god without denying the existence of others.
This much is accepted by most biblical scholars, including some who are believing Jews or Christians. But things get more controversial when you suggest that there was a long time when even “monolatry” was too strong a word for mainstream Israelite doctrine—a time when not all non-Yahweh gods were considered evil or alien; a time when Yahweh was ensconced in an Israelite pantheon, working alongside other gods. Yet if you read the scriptures closely, you’ll see hints of such a time. The Bible famously says that God “created man in his own image,” but those aren’t Yahweh’s words. When Yahweh is actually quoted, in the previous verse, he says, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.” Then when Adam eats the forbidden fruit, Yahweh says, “Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil.” When people start building the Tower of Babel, which will reach to the heavens, and Yahweh opts for preemptive intervention, he says, “Come, let us go down, and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.”
Us? Who is us? If you ask this question of some Jewish or Christian clergy, you may get such answers as “angels” or “the heavenly host, God’s army.” In other words, Yahweh may be accompanied by other supernatural beings, but none of them qualify as gods. The Bible says otherwise. It talks more than once about a “divine council” in which God takes a seat; and the other seats don’t seem to be occupied by angels. Psalm 82 says: “God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment.” And God himself, addressing the other council members a few verses later, says, “You are gods.”
The many biblical references to the existence of multiple gods are in a sense amazing. For, though the Bible was composed over many centuries, the earliest parts of it passed through the hands of later editors who decided which books and verses to keep and which to discard—and who seem to have had a bias against polytheism. So those hints of Israelite polytheism that remain in the Bible are probably, as the scholar Mark S. Smith suggested in his book The Origins of Biblical Monotheism, “only the tip of the iceberg.”
What did the iceberg, the full-blown polytheism of early Israel, look like? And how exactly did it melt away, leaving the monotheism that would have such impact on the world? This is a good time to turn to archaeology. Over the past century, artifacts unearthed in the Holy Land have clarified the biblical story. In fact, “clarified” is a euphemism. The story as told in the Bible has in some cases been obliterated by the facts in the ground……(taken from the book “The Evolution of God”)
Hi Gadam
God in the Flesh
For starters, though Yahweh may have wound up “in a realm apart”—a remote, even transcendent God, whose presence is felt subtly—this is not the kind of god that comes across in the earliest scriptures, fragments of the Bible that may go back as far as the closing centuries of the second millennium BCE. In fact, even in the first millennium BCE, when most if not all of Genesis took shape, God was a hands-on deity. He personally “planted” the Garden of Eden, and he “made garments of skins” for Adam and Eve “and clothed them.” And he doesn’t seem to have done these things while hovering ethereally above the planet. After Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, according to Genesis, “they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden at the time of the evening breeze, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden.” Hiding may sound like a naïve strategy to deploy against the omniscient God we know today, but apparently he wasn’t omniscient back then.
Me
And for you Gadam, is God omniscient?
Hi Berean, thanks for your response to my post. In fact I have come out of all my beliefs and now on rational position of understanding these ancient religious texts.
Berean…….It also say’s this, “whosoever is under the WORKS OF LAW, is under a curse”? Question is do you believe it? , i believe the Sabbath was made for me and “NOT ME FOR THE SABBATH”, i am also like Jesus, “lord of the sabbath”, i see the benifits of a sabbath rest, but it’s up to me on how i keep it. I am not under the works of law, because,”the LAW WAS MADE FOR THE UNGODLY AND THE SINNER. I AM SAVED BY GRACE OF GOD, NOT BY “THE WORKS OF “LAW”.
It was the Sabbath keepers that killed our lord Jesus Christ, as i remember. Jesus called them a bounch of hypocrits, using the Sabbath as a cloke of “rightiousness”, is a sin Berean.
Berean your not understanding yet the difference between a commandment, and the works of law. FRIST YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT , SHOW US A SINGLE SABBATH DAY THAT, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Josheph, ever kept. ?
True “Rightiousness”, is not of the works of Law, but of a new creation within us, by the Spirit of God the Father, giving us new hearts and transforming our minds. Which has nothing to do with being under any works of law? Obedance to any law, can not change your heart and mind, in fact it can make you a murder of true servants of God and Jesus, as proven in the past.
So becarefull how you use the Sabbath day, NOT AS A CLOKE OF SELFRIGHTIOUSNESS.
Berean, I AM NOT SAYING THE SABBATH IS BAD, THE SABBATH IS GOOD, IF “PROPERLY KEPT”. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours…………gene
Adam…….So what is your complete conclusions of the matter brother?
Peace and love to you and yours Adam………..gene
Gene
The point is not the Sabbath itself, but the passage where God says he created everything in 6 days:
👇
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day: therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and sanctified him.
Regarding the Sabbath, I invite you to read the subject I posted: “Christ and the Pharisees” This should certainly interest you.
God protects you
Adam…….So what is your complete conclusions of the matter brother?
Hi brother Gene, thanks for your reply to my post. In fact there is no conclusion for the time being as my search for the truth is still in progress. But I am finding many answers to my life long queries on these ancient Biblical texts.
Thank you and peace to you brother…..Adam
How mythological was Yahweh?
Not “mythological” in the sense of not being true, but rather in the sense that Greek gods were mythological: Were there stories about Yahweh’s dramatic dealings with other extraordinary beings? Did he fight some gods or demigods and pal around with others? Was he part of a supernatural soap opera? Many scholars have said no. Indeed, in Kaufmann’s view, the “non-mythological” nature of Yahweh “is the essence of Israelite religion” and sets Israelite religion “apart from all forms of paganism,” certainly including native Canaanite religion.
There is doubly bad news for those who, like Kaufmann, would hail Yahweh as a clean break from pagan myth. First, there are signs that the break wasn’t so clean—that, like so much else in the history of religion, it was more evolutionary than revolutionary. Second, when you try to trace this evolution, you see that Yahweh’s family tree may contain something even more scandalous than an early fusion with the Canaanite deity El. It may be that Yahweh, even while inheriting El’s genes, somehow acquired genes from the most reviled of all Canaanite deities: Baal.
Baal was of course immersed deeply in myth. He did battle with Yamm, the god of the sea, and Mot, the god of death. One Ugaritic text even says that he “smote Lotan,” a seven-headed “dragon.” Talk about mythological!
Then again, the Bible pays this tribute to Yahweh: “You broke the heads of the dragons in the waters. You crushed the heads of Levia-than.” And the ancient Hebrew word underlying Leviathan— Livyaton—is, so far as we can tell, just Hebrew for “Lotan”; apparently Yahweh not only slew multiheaded dragons, but slew the very multiheaded dragon that Baal slew. That same chapter of Psalms credits Yahweh with subduing the sea. Or, perhaps, Sea: some translators capitalize the word, because underlying it is yam, the ancient Hebrew word for the sea god that Baal smote. The Bible also promises, in the book of Isaiah, that Yahweh will “swallow up death forever”—and underlying “death” is the Hebrew word for Mot, the god of death with whom Baal struggled dramatically.
So why do English translations of the Bible say “sea” instead of “Yamm” and “death” instead of “Mot”? Ancient Hebrew didn’t have capital letters. When you see the Hebrew word mawet in isolation, you can’t say whether it is the proper noun meaning Mot or the generic noun meaning death. So the Bible’s translators can take their pick, and as a rule they’ve picked generic nouns. But you have to wonder about this choice. In deciding whether Yahweh was “swallowing up” Mot or merely death, for example: surely it is no coincidence that in Canaanite mythology Mot was famous for “swallowing” people at the end of their lives and delivering them to “Sheol,” the afterlife underworld—or that Mot had once swallowed Yahweh’s rival, Baal.
Or consider the Bible’s puzzling reference to Yahweh’s “wrath against the rivers” and his “rage against the sea.” Why would Yahweh be upset with rivers and sea? How could he blame water for flowing? Wouldn’t these passages make more sense if the Hebrew words for “rivers” and “sea” ( nahar and yam) were translated as Nahar and Yamm, the supernatural beings with whom Baal had fought in such mythological fashion? (Perhaps feeling a pang of conscience, the translators of the New Revised Standard Version obscurely acknowledge this possibility, with fine-print footnotes that say “or against River” and “or against Sea.”) The case for a mythological translation only grows when you see how Yahweh himself appears in these passages. He conquers the forces of nature in a chariot (“You trampled the sea with your horses”). He brandishes a bow and intimidates the moon and the sun with “the light of your arrows” and the “gleam of your flashing spear.”
These last two images are generally taken to refer to lightning, and here lies yet another blurring of the line between the myths of those pagan Canaanites and the religion of ancient Israel: Yahweh, in addition to fighting the very forces of nature that Baal fights against and being himself depicted in anthropomorphic terms, as mythological gods often are, is depicted as the particular type of mythological god that Baal was: a storm god. In Psalm 29, Yahweh is the source of thunder and lightning: “The voice of the Lord is over the waters; the God of glory thunders.… The voice of the Lord flashes forth flames of fire.”
In 1936, H. L. Ginsberg, a lecturer at the Jewish Theological Seminary, suggested that this poem had originally been a hymn to Baal. Ginsberg’s initially eccentric theory has moved toward the mainstream as evidence for it has grown. One scholar, for instance, changed all the “Yahweh”s in the poem to “Baal”s and found that the amount of alliteration grew radically.
The eminent biblical scholar Frank Moore Cross has argued that one of the keystone events of the entire Bible—the crossing of the Red Sea—has roots in Baal mythology. He notes that this episode features, in a sense, the sea submitting to God’s will, a faint echo of Baal’s dominating Sea (Yamm) in battle.
And certainly there is a mythic air about the account of the event in Exodus 15. Here the scene is nothing like the (probably later) account in Exodus 14 that is the one depicted in Cecil B. DeMille’s The Ten Commandments; the waters don’t just part majestically at Moses’s request and then reunite to drown the Egyptians.
Rather, God is conspicuously, anthropomorphically, involved, and his mastery over the sea commensurately vivid: “At the blast of your nostrils the waters piled up, the floods stood up in a heap.” But, whatever the parallels between the Red Sea episode and the myths of Baal, there is one big difference. Whereas the Baal myths take place in a supernatural realm, the biblical story is fundamentally about human history. Yes, the story is crucially shaped by intervention from on high, but the real action is on the ground. As Cross puts it, Yahweh’s battles, unlike the typical Baal battle, are “particularized in place and time.” A “mythic pattern” has been replaced by an “epic pattern.” Hence the title of his influential 1973 book, ‘Canaanite Myth and Hebrew Epic’.
Even when Yahweh acts in plainly mythological fashion—slaying a multiheaded dragon, say—the biblical reference is fleeting; there is no lengthy plotline.
“Mythic imagery is abundant in the Bible,” observes Mark S. Smith, yet “myth as narrative” is nearly absent. Smith’s explanation for the dearth of narrative myth involves, among other things, deletion. Toward the middle of the first millennium BCE, he says, mythological motifs fell out of fashion; Hebrew scriptures composed then depict God in less anthropomorphic form than before, and sometimes as formless. Smith argues that during this period, when myth was frowned on, earlier texts were being edited and re-edited; maybe priests found their view of Yahweh at odds with earlier accounts of his exploits and “chose not to preserve them, thereby functionally censoring them.”
But why go to the trouble? Even if myth had grown unfashionable, why bother to erase memory of its previous vogue? Probably because there were great theological stakes. After all, mythological gods deal with other formidable gods and sometimes find their will thwarted; but if you’re the one, all-powerful God, your will can’t be thwarted! Mythology, in other words, meant polytheism. So a project to strip early mythic narrative from scripture might have been part of a larger project: reworking the scriptures to imply that from the dawn of Israelite religion Yahweh was all-powerful and worthy of exclusive devotion. (The scholar Marjo Christina Annette Korpel compared Ugaritic and biblical descriptions of the divine and found “spectacularly” similar language “where strength, honour, dignity and compassion are concerned,” whereas “everything implying weakness, humiliation or desire is shunned in the Old Testament.”)
This motivation would explain the kinds of mythological moments that did survive the editing. More than once, a plotline lasts just long enough to suggest that, if a basis for polytheism ever existed, it is now gone. In Psalm 82—the aforementioned divine council scene, in which God takes his seat among other gods—the scene ends with him predicting their death; or, in one common interpretation, sentencing them to death for their misdeeds.
Similarly, Yahweh’s encounter with the gods Sea and River lasts just long enough for him to casually subdue these pesky remnants of a bygone polytheism.
Leaving that part of Baal’s legacy attached to Yahweh was theologically safe. But what about Baal’s setbacks, such as being “swallowed” by Mot, the god Death? Such humiliation wouldn’t befit a god worthy of exclusive devotion, and indeed the scriptures, as edited, don’t show Yahweh inheriting this part of Baal’s identity. Instead, we see that promise in the book of Isaiah that eventually Yahweh will “swallow up” Mot “forever,” a pointed assertion of Yahweh’s superiority not just to Mot but to Baal.
In a sense, then, the mid-first-millennium editors who in Smith’s account helped to demythologize the Bible weren’t bent on extirpating myth per se. Indeed, it was only later translators who changed Sea to sea and River to river and Death to death. The enemy, rather, was myth in which gods other than the star of the show were formidable. And since narrative holds interest only when its outcome is in doubt—that is, when there is more than one formidable character—the death of these motifs meant the death of true mythic narrative.
This joint demise of polytheism and mythic narrative can be glimpsed, refracted, through shards of myth that remain in the Bible. A verse in the book of Habakkuk, as commonly translated, reads, “God came from… Mount Paran” and “before him went pestilence, and plague followed close behind.” But the Hebrew words underlying “pestilence” and “plague” are the words for the gods of pestilence and plague, Deber and Resheph. In the Canaanite pantheon, Deber and Resheph had been fiercely destructive, but, as Smith has noted, that part of their identity doesn’t make it into the Bible. Rather, they appear as unassuming members of Yahweh’s retinue. And later translators, by turning the names of these gods into generic nouns, converted Pestilence and Plague from minor deities to mere aspects of Yahweh’s power, and abstract aspects at that. Yahweh here seems to be repeating the strategy we saw Marduk exercise in the previous chapter, moving toward monotheism through subtle conquest, assimilating other gods into his being.
This passage from Habakkuk illustrates Smith’s account of how Canaanite polytheism got streamlined into Israelite monotheism. Gods that had ranked below El in the pantheon, such as Deber and Resheph, shrank in stature and eventually disappeared altogether. With the midlevel management now gone, all that was left of the downsized pantheon was a deity at the very top—now known as Yahweh—and supernatural beings at the very bottom: the divine messengers, or angels……(taken from the book “The Evolution of God”)
You: Plus, Gen 2:4 that we are discussing lists both “created” and “made” in the same dang sentence concerning the heaven and earth, Carmel!
Me: First and foremost, we were never discussing Gen. 2:4 as such, it was you who introduced it to justify your perception that the conjunction “AND” asserts that Gen. 1:1 and Gen.2:4 are not only parallel but also that they are identical in their terminology,
which is not the case!
Mike, There are hundreds of verses similar to Gen. 2:4 which lists the words created and made, or formed and made and so on. But I assure you that there are more than one message behind them. Just read these verses please:
Jeremiah1:5Before I FORMED thee in the bowels of thy mother, I knew thee: and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee, and MADE thee a prophet unto the nations.
Philippians 2:7 But emptied himself, taking the FORM of a servant, being MADE in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man.
In the above two verses, the words FORMED and MADE don’t MEAN THE SAME EXACT THING. NO?
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Mike,
You: I posted a screenshot of an actual mainstream thesaurus page that lists all of them as synonyms just last week.
Me: Mike LOOK AT THE LISTS I POSTED, OF SYNONYMS OF THE SAME WORDS , WHICH YOU SIMPLY IGNORED:
Genesis 2:7And the Lord God FORMED man of the slime of the earth:
Mike, WHAT DID GOD DO IN THE ABOVE?
Synonyms for form
cast,
configuration,
conformation,
fashion,
figure,
geometry,
shapeMike from the list of synonyms the words CREATE, MAKE, and ESTABLISH are absent!
2Chr. 1:11 And God said to Solomon: …….., over which I have MADE thee king,
What did God do in the above?
Synonyms for make
Synonyms: Verb
fabricate,
fashion,
form,
frame,
manufacture,
produceMike from the list of synonyms the words CREATE and ESTABLISH ARE ABSENT
Genesis 6:18 And I will ESATBLISH my covenant with thee,……..
What will God do in the above?
Synonyms for establish
demonstrate,
prove,
show,
substantiateMike, from the list of synonyms the words CREATE, MAKE, and FORM are absent
Synonym for LONG
elongate
(or elongated),
extended,
king-size
(or king-sized),
lengthya long arm is not the same as an extended arm.
synonyms don’t actually furnish us with
words which mean THE SAME EXACT THING, but to inform and guide us on what words we can use best and most suitable in relation to context.
I’m afraid I have to post again what I posted and YOU SIMPLY IGNORED.
I’ll make it clear to you:
WHEN THE SPERM MEET THE OVUM
A human being is MADE in the FORM of a fetus!
NOT CREATED AS SUCH FROM THE PHYSICAL SIDE POINT OF VIEW, SCIENTIFICALLY!
HUMANS DON’T CREATE AS SUCH!
FROM GOD’S POINT OF VIEW THOUGH, IN THE SAME INSTANT
this human being is CREATED spiritually in the soul, MADE physically in the flesh, FORMED in the fetus, and ESTABLISHED in the womb?
READING THE ABOVE Mr. Mike,
SPECIFICALLY SPEAKING,
THEY ARE PERFORMING THE SAME EXACT THING?
DEFINITELY NOT!
When God in Genesis FORMED MAN OF THE DUST,
IT IS THE SAME EXACT THING AS WHEN GOD CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH EX NIHILO? Genesis 1:1
When God said to Solomon “I have made thee king,”
IT IS THE SAME EXACT THING AS WHEN GOD CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH EX NIHILO? Genesis 1:1
When God “established His covenant with Abraham”
IT IS THE SAME EXACT THING AS WHEN GOD CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH EX NIHILO? Genesis 1:1
IF IN THE ABOVE THEY ARE DEFINITELY A REFERENCE TO SOMETHING ENTIRELY DIFFERENT IN RELATION TO GOD’S OWN TASKS,
WHY ARE THEY NOT ALSO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT IN RELATION TO GOD’S OWN OTHER TASKS?
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Mike,
You: Do you think Gen 2:4 is talking about two different heavens and earths – one that God “created” and the other one that He “made”?
Just how far are you willing to take your nonsense?
Me: MIKE, I AM ONLY A SUBJECT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
The above scripture is clearly talking about THE GENERATIONS OF THE HEAVEN (SINGULAR) AND THE EARTH! THE ACTUAL ENTIRE HEAVENLY HOSTS, BEFORE AND AFTER THE REBELLION!
THE FIRST SHORT NOVEL!
Thus, it is not just related ONLY to our actual galaxy, from Genesis 1:3…… but also related to the entire universe precisely, FROM GENESIS 1:1 WHEN GOD CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH! The fact that it uses the terms CREATED and MADE. Believe it or not, ATTENTION PLEASE:
in order to distinguish the creation directly by God the Father, Genesis 1:1 from the WORK
MADE
by “THE WORD” Jesus, as a spirit John5:19,20, when God through Him and by Him MADE this world from Genesis 1:3. Well asserted in
Hebrew 1:2 In these days hath spoken to us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he
MADE the world.
ORIGINALLY ALREADY CREATED WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT
IT’S YOUR PIGEON!
AND UNFORTUNATELY MESSED UP AND FLOODED BY LUCIFER.
Psalm 18:6-19, Job 38:8-11
WHEN THE SEA WAS BORN!
The fact that GOD IS NOT MENTIONED, NEVER MIND DOING SOMETHING DIRECTLY; IN COMPARISON TO THE REST FROM GENESIS 1:3 ONWARD, and ONLY Jesus as a spirit, the genuine substance of the Father Hebrews 1:3, moved over the waters in Genesis 1:2, GOD ALL-KNOWING, A CLEAR PRELUDE TO this deed on earth by Jesus as a human when He walked on waters.
WHY DID JESUS WALK ON WATERS IN GENESIS 1:2?
NO NOVELS AT THIS STAGE!
THAT IN THE NEXT POST
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Mike,
LET’S CONTINUE:
You: And your argument that one heaven/earth was “created” while the other was “made” has been shot down by Gen 2:4 (among other scriptures). So now what will you do?
Okay, time to take a different tack…
Me: THIS IS THE DIFFERENT TRACK, BUT NOT THE ONE YOU ARE ONLY HOPING
I’M AFRAID!
A MUST SHORT NOVEL
Now the first part of v. 4 …… WHEN THEY, THE GENERATIONS, WERE CREATED, is a clear reference to Genesis 1:1 when God in the very beginning pronounced His first ever WORD and emanated His endless spirits, THE BING BANG,
BY WHICH SPIRITS, initiated the CREATION OF THE HEAVENLY HOSTS,
LUCIFER THE BEGINNING, THE LIGHT BRINGER, fully luminous, AS GOD, IS LIGHT. GOD ALL-KNOWING, from then on these spirits UNAWARE OF, were subject to “THE WORD” of God JESUS AS A SPIRIT HIDDEN IN THEM, AS ETERNAL LIFE, John 8:24-29, and whatever God the Father pronounced, they instantly
FORMED,
not created as such,
in themselves as SPIRITS, THOUGH, NOT AS HEAVENLY HOSTS, ANGELS; ANGELS ARE BEINGS
CREATED, FORMED, MADE, AND ESTABLISHED
BY COMPRESSED SPIRITS, BY AND ACCORDING TO GOD’S POWER ALL IN/BY”THE WORD”,
Thus whatever GOD THE FATHER SAYS, they manifest instantly ACCORDINGLY through Jesus ” THE WORD”. ALL BY HIM and ALL IN HIM.
John5:19,20, John 8:24-29,
The second part of v. 4…….. MADE the heaven and the earth: is a clear reference to the WORK of God from Genesis 1:3 through BY “THE WORD” Jesus, AS A SPIRIT
SLAIN (METHAPHORICALLY) LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD Rev.13:8 entirely physical, but in the same instant ALSO SPIRITUAL also pinpointed by Jesus in John 8:24-29
hidden in the actual general work MADE of our physical world well asserted in
Romans 1:20For the invisible things of him, (JESUS)
from the CREATION of the world, (GENESIS 1:1) are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are MADE (GENESIS 1:3….); his eternal power also, and divinity:
Attention brother Mike in Christ
so that they are inexcusable.
NOW GO BACK TO GENESIS 1:3 AND COUNT FROM THERE HOW MANY TIMES THE WORD
“MADE”
IS MENTIONED? NINE IF I COUNTED RIGHT!
IN COMPARISON TO THE WORD
“CREATE”
three in all! ONE IN GENESIS 1:1
FROM Genesis 1:3 BOTH WORDS ARE ONLY MENTIONED, ONCE GOD INITIATED HIS WORK TO
“ESTABLISH”
FOR THE FIRST-EVER TIME, IN FLESH AND BLOOD
THE MAN!
Notice He first said let us MAKE man…. Then it says And God CREATED man.
Thus God used the word MAKE since this particular MAN PHYSICALLY IN FLESH AND BLOOD is the fruit of the entire CREATION
ALL “MADE”
not created as such EX-NIHILO, BUT PHYSICALLY through the process of nature,
FORMED from the slime of the earth BY GOD! Then It says
GOD CREATED MAN…..,
For the simple reason that the man was created SPIRITUALLY for the first-ever time directly by
GOD the Father’s BREATH. ALWAYS through “THE WORD” JESUS AS A SPIRIT
THE BEGINNING AND THE END OF ALL GOD’S WORK, a CLEAR reference to
the man’s SOUL! Gen.2:7
ALSO For the simple reason, that MAN in God’s own terms/GIANTS pre-existed on the first perfect EARTH! of Genesis 1:1 Asserted hereunder:
2 Enoch 1 And, while I slept, a great distress entered my heart, and I was weeping with my eyes in a dream. And I could not figure out what this distress might be, |nor| what might be happening to me. •Then two huge men appeared to me, the like of which I had never seen on earth. Their faces were like the shining sun their eyes were like burning lamps from their mouths fire was coming forth; their clothing was various singing their wings were more glistening than gold; their hands were whiter than snow. And they stood at the head of my bed and called me by my name. Then I awake from my sleep, and saw those men, standing in front of me, in actuality.
NOW the word “CREATED” after Genesis 1: 3 is also mentioned in verse
21:And God created the great whales, and every living and moving creature, which the waters brought forth, according to their kinds, and every winged fowl according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
WHY? YOU MIGHT ASK, WERE CREATED NOT MADE, ONLY THE CREATURES FROM THE
SEA?
THAT’S ANOTHER NOVEL!
WHICH YOU HATE AND YOU DON’T WANT NEITHER TO READ NOR TO HEAR SO YOU COULD KEEP ON TELLING
NONSENSE!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel
You are on dangerous ground… Not everything you say is ROCK BASED. RETURN TO THE SIMPLICITY AND PURITY OF GOD’S WORD.
God bless
Mike……here is anotger honest answer for you,
JOHN 1V1……“in the beginning (was) the word (intellegent utterance), and the word, (intellegent uterance ) was with God, and the word (intellegent utterance) was God.
Point one ……..God and his word are one and the same person, just as you and your words are.
Point two…….. God and his word (was) one and the same, not two different persons. A word describes the person and comes from that same person , unless that person is quoting another person, in that case it is not the the person himself speaking that the word belong to.
Point three…….Jesus plainly said “the words i am telling you are (NOT) my words, but the words of him that sent me”. Question is do you as well as others here believe Jesus, or what he says. Obvisely not or none of you would be trying to make Jesus out to be himself the word of God himself?
Point four……The original scripture never changed the lettering from upper case to lower case lettering, that is just an attempt to make it appear the (word) was a seperate person. No separation is given in our scripture of a person and his word ever being or (was) seperate from the actual person, that is an impossibility. If someone exist seperate from his own words i would like to know who it is.
Point four…….John was simple saying , in the beginning was (existing), the word of God, and the word was (existing) with him and (was) (existing) as God, God and his word are one and the same person. There is no such thing as God’s word being separate from himself any where in scripture. AS I HAVE SAID, GOD AND HIS WORD ARE ONE AND THE SAME THING. NO one can be you, or your word, but you yourself. This applies to man and God BOTH, IMO.
Peace and love to you and yours Mike……….gene
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