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17 It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.”
If you deny the above text you will also deny the original story of creation in the Bible. So what do you say?Good. So now look at Genesis. What was accomplished by the end of the first day?
Well the heavens and earth existed and the Spirit of God hovered over a watery planet and then light appeared.
Science tells us that the universe was in darkness and then at some point the lights turned on. That is the stars started to shine for the first time. This is why it is important that Hubble like telescopes need to be able to detect other waves rather than visible light because visible light does not let us see before the first stars shone.
And the fourth day is about these lights and our sun appearing in the vault or atmosphere. Not about their creation. Read it yourself.
And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
So clearly, by the end of the first day we have the cosmos with stars and the earth. And the fourth day we have an atmosphere that allows visibility into this cosmos.
By the way I do agree with your point about the earth already and water already existed before God started this creation, in fact there could have been many beginnings this earth may have went through,
Yes, there have been many ages, worlds, eons. The bible even says this.
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
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[11] For in six daysthe LORD made:
heaven and earth,
the sea
, and all that in them is,
and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Berean, A thousand years equals a day with God and a day equals a thousand years. God said to Adam and Eve, “in the ” DAY, YOU EAT OF THE TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE AND EVIL YOU SHALL DIE, “right”/? , but they did not die in the exact 24 hour time period after they ate it, right? But they did die within God the Father’s , time period of one thousand years “equals” a single day with him, in fact all who have sinned die within that time period.
In fact this whole creation is limited to a 7ooo year time period, We are now at the end of the Sixth thousand or Sixth day period of God’s, 1000 year time period, and the day or time of rest for his whole creation, to enter a rest for 1000 years , when the whole world will inter into God the Father’s rest.
peace and love to you and yours Berean……….gene
Gene
The Word of God tells us that:
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (Exodus 20)The days of creation are 24 hours, like our current days.
When at the 6000 years, we are there, the earth sighs after HIS SABBATH. It will rest during the millennium. (time of the judgment of the lost in heaven: Rev.20:4) Then eternal life on the renewed earth where justice will dwell. .
The days of creation are 24 hours, like our current days.
Except the bible doesn’t say 24 hours. Thus you need to be more like the Bereans who studied the scriptures to see if it were so.
Proclaimer
God our Father has created days within our reach. To disbelieve that is to disbelieve that God truly loves us. It’s a thing.
The story of creation is the prototype of our week to us poor humans. I believe that the weight of evidence leans on that side, it is the most reasonable.And we still have Exodus 20
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For in SIX DAYS the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.(EXODUS 20:11)Berean. You need to be more like the Bereans. Study scripture to see if it is so. The Bereans didn’t take Paul’s word for it, but first checked the scriptures to see if it was so and Paul commended this. So taking the SDA at their word is not being a Berean. You need to put scripture above them.
Further, no one is saying it is not six or seven days. Rather that a day to God is different to a day for us. We measure days by the interactions of the earth with the sun. God is not subject to this in anyway and all the more if you believe the sun was made on the fourth day. Further, quoting the six day scripture is irrelevant because we all believe this.
The difference is what a day to God is. Clearly we are taught that is not the same for God as it is for us and God is not a man. Scripture teaches us this. So Berean, be like a Berean. God is not like a man and is not subject to the sun. Nowhere are we taught that a day for God is 24 hours. On the contrary, it is like a thousand years. LIKE is the keyword.
And God is a mighty fortress. That doesn’t mean that he is a building.
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
I am 100% against doing that. This is a good discussion right now. We have quite a few people discussing a number of different ways that Scientism contradicts the Bible. Nor are any of our arguments limited to only Genesis.
I’ll let this topic run free then. I’ll try and come up with a decent name for it.
Wild conspiracy theories, myth, or truth?
Do you like the new title?
I think it is a good descriptor for debating anything wild and wacky to see if there is any truth to them. Sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction as they say.
Adam: This is purely due to primitive understanding of the universe by the writers of the books of the Bible like any other Near Eastern religious creation stories.
Proclaimer: Well yes, primitive in the sense that it is from eons ago.
First of all, neither of you could possibly verify that this so-called “primitive understanding” is inaccurate, right?
Secondly, Moses didn’t just pull this stuff out of thin air… he wrote down what Yahweh told him about the creation of the heaven and the earth. In fact, in Exodus 31 that I recently posted, Moses directly quotes Yahweh saying He created the heavens and the earth in six days, right? And this was right before Yahweh sent Moses back down the mountain with the tablets He inscribed with His own finger, right?
So while it’s common for 21st century “enlightened people” to pretend that we are so much smarter today than Adam, Enoch, and Moses were, it’s a whole other kind of hubris that would lead a person to call the description of the creation event BY the One who did the creating a “primitive understanding”.
Check yourselves before you wreck yourselves.
Berean……you continue to not address my points, why is that? , I said Adam and Eve did not die in the 24 hour period after the ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Need proof? Read this ,
God said, Gen 2:17……“But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat: for in the “DAY” that you eat thereof you shall surely “DIE”.
QUESTION, DID THY DIE, in the 24hour day after they ate of it. Please answer this question, I will help you , “NO”, they did not die in the 24 hour period after they ate of it.
QUESTION TWO, DID THEY DIE WITH IN, God’s one day period of a thousand year , “YES”, THEY DID, AND SO HAS EVERY HUMAN SENSE THAT TIME. DIDED WITHIN THAT TIME PERIOD. NO HUMAN BEING HAS EVER LIVED OVER THAT ONE THOUSAND YEAR TIME PERIOD. So “we all” die in the day we eat of it, in God the Father’s time of what a day is. What a day period for us is, not the same as a day period for God, as Peter clearly said.
peace and love to you and yours Berean…………gene
Adam: Please take for example of Gen 1:1 which you people claim to be a proof for supporting the Scientific view of creation for billions of years. The same Biblical writers interpret the Genesis creation stories in which God of the Bible created heaven and earth within six literal days as our Mike repeatedly debate here as per Exodus 31:
17 It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.”
If you deny the above text you will also deny the original story of creation in the Bible. So what do you say?
So far the only thing Proclaimer and Gene can think to say about it is that the words, “in six days Yahweh made the heaven and the earth” doesn’t actually mean what it clearly says – but instead means that the heaven and the earth were already in existence BEFORE the six days.
In other words, they have nothing with which to refute the direct quote from the One they call their God and Creator. But let’s see how it plays out.
Carmel: Genesis 1:2-3 and so on it was not created in a literal six days…
You’re adding to the scriptures things about a Lucifer rebellion and whatnot. I’m not interested in these things unless you can show me in scripture that there was a Lucifer rebellion before God created the heaven and the earth.
As for your comment about the six days, please show me from scripture that the days were not literal days.
Exodus 20:9-11… Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work… For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day…
Can you list for me the four things that God made within the same six day period? (I’ve underlined them to make it easier for you.)
Berean: Hi to all,
Why not believe that in Genesis 1 and 2, God created everything by his power in 6 days of 24 hours and that he rested on the Seventh day.
I believe it… because I believe the Bible over Scientism on everything.
Mike…… it’s playing out fine, maybe you can answer the question Above, I gave Berean, he needs all the help he can get. So take a little time and answer it please.
Does a day equal a “thousand years with God “?
peace and love to you and yours Mike………gene
Proclaimer: Same with you Berean. Can you admit this possibility, or will your ego sway you toward the SDA meaning you are forced to deny it.
Proclaimer, do you really think this kind of juvenile crap is necessary? Why can’t Berean simply be accepting what the scriptures say? Why does his disagreement with you (the one who’s actually denying the scriptures) have to be linked to ego or SDA?
These are the BS tactics of a petty, simple-minded, little man whose arguments are being destroyed.
“When the debate has been lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.” – Socrates
The good thing is, the truth doesn’t need anyone to defend it. All Berean needs to do is keep posting SCRIPTURE that clearly and undeniably lists both the heaven and the earth as part of what was made within the same six days.
Fortunately, that’s exactly what he’s been doing…
Berean: For in six days
the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.( Exodus 20:11)
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Proclaimer: Okay, so why is there morning and evening meaning a 24 hour day with day and night for the first 3 days if there is no sun? You said God. But God is light and there is no darkness in him. So did he disappear for 12 hours on the first few days?
This is one problem you have to contend with among many.
I did NOT say “God”. I related what the scriptures teach, which is that God created LIGHT, DAY, and NIGHT on the FIRST day.
God did not create the sun until the fourth day.
The creation of light – and the separation of light (called “day”) from darkness (called “night”) – on the FIRST day set up the 24 hour day/night cycle without the need of the sun. The sun was created 3 days later to GOVERN the days – not as the SOURCE of the days.
Do you understand that now? The sun is not needed for there to be “days” and “nights”. All that was needed was light and the separation of light from darkness. God did this on the FIRST day.
So this is not a problem that I must contend with, because I’m only relating what the scriptures actually say. It is a problem that YOU must contend with, because you can’t seem to get it into your head that there can be days and nights WITHOUT the sun… despite the Bible saying exactly that.
Mike: Exodus 20:9-11… Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God… For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day
Proclaimer: A number of ways to look at this.
No, there is only one way to look at it. The four things listed above were MADE within the same six day period. That is the ONLY way to understand those words. You want desperately for it to say that God made the heaven and the earth, AND THEN made the sea and all that in them is in the FOLLOWING six days… but that is clearly NOT what it says.
Proclaimer: And given the creation of the sun in your view taking place on the fourth day, then clearly these first days and probably all the days are not as you think.
What do you mean “in your view”? 🤔 Doesn’t the Bible say that God made the sun on the fourth day? It has nothing to do with “my view”. It is simply what the Bible teaches.
Proclaimer, are you or are you not able to see in the above that the heaven and the earth are included in the things that were created in a six day period? Maybe this will help…
Exodus 31:17… It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
This is a direct quote of Yahweh. Are you or are you not able to see that Yahweh Himself explicitly listed both the heaven and the earth as things He made within a six day period?
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