Confusions

[Ed J]

Hi Gene,

With the Spirit of our mind we willingly follows after God's commandments;
therefore our “Spirit” as “A Free Will” obeys God, not man! (Philemon 1:14)

Philemon 1:14 But without thy mind would I do nothing; that
thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[GeneBalthrop]

Ed J ………… Only you are talking a FREE INTELLECT not me or anyone else here. You have not produced (ONE) scripture that Say we HAVE a “FREE” WILL (IN) Us . start there before you go distorting and ranting about what you think you know. It would be better to go to the Free Will thread, and post there IMO. This subject here has nothing to do with you so-called non scriptural (FREE WILLS)…IMO

peace and love…………..gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Ed J @ July 02 2010,15:19)

Hi Gene, With the Spirit of our mind we willingly follows after God's commandments; therefore our “Spirit” as “A Free Will” obeys God, not man! (Philemon 1:14) Philemon 1:14 But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly. God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed J……….Do you see the (WORD) “FREE” willingly there, is this what you do with you numbering system, just force the number to fit (YOUR) Own conceptions? You can add word and Make scripture say any thing you want to ED J. Again JUST ONE SCRIPTURE THAT SAY A MAN HAS A “FREE WILL” (IN) HIM. Not some scripture you can force by adding your thoughts into it. Just ONE SCRIPTURE , that is all you have to produce , and if you can't then why not just say it, Is you ego and Pride preventing this from happening?

peace and love……………………gene

[seekingtruth]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 30 2010,22:47)

Seeking truth……….Have you considered what i posted in reply to your brother,  Something i see we do agree on and that is the Spirit is connected with Powers. And these spirit powers do effect every thing that exists. Kerwin thoughts on the spirit being a guidance is also right i believe.  “For the Spirit (BOTH) accuses us and defends Us, I believe when a person receives the Spirit of Truth into him He is given a mental intellect to discern the truth from a Lie. and This is indeed a guidance system in Us.  I would like to see any commits on if Spirit  can correctly be compared to the metaphor i used of a Lake of Water and all life receives from that source into them and that this life never dies but returns back to its source when the physical dies.   thanks you all for you inputs i appreciate them brothers and sisters………………………..gene

Gene,
Sorry it took me so long to respond. After reading every scripture on soul and spirit, much thought and prayer, below is what I believe:

Spirit – the embodiment of intellect and power. Host to the emotions, influenced from higher sources good and evil, like pools we can tap into them or even come under their power.

Soul – seat of the consciousness, our will choses between good and evil

Body – Source of desires, memories, thoughts, and reasoning. Our interface to the world

My opinion – Wm

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (seekingtruth @ July 02 2010,15:36)

Spirit – the embodiment of intellect and power. Host to the emotions, influenced from higher sources good and evil, like pools we can tap into them or even come under their power.

seeking truth…………I think we are pretty much in agreement on Spirit……….I also believe it is the embodiment of Intellect and power, and this intellect does most certainly influence us and Cause us to follow its influences, I also believe Spirit can be seen like a Pool we can tap into and it can be poured out on us also , God said He would Pour forth of his Spirit (intellects) upon all creation, in Joule.

Have you ever thought that every thing to be known by us has always existed from the very beginning . No man is privy to any Spirit because the same spirit in one person can be also in another it can be added or subtracted to any of us , God can remove unclean Spirit (intellect) and replace it with Clean Spirit (intellect) and this would automatically change our behaviors , When God pours His Spirit (INTELLECT) into us we become more like Him because of that Spirit in us. So when it say we are being transformed by the renewing of our minds that is absolutely true.

Good Post brother IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

To All………..Does anyone else have anything to Add , would like to hear from all about what Spirit to them means.

peace and love to you all………………………gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 04 2010,13:47)

To All………..Does anyone else have anything to Add , would like to hear from all about what Spirit to them means. peace and love to you all………………………gene

gene

the spirit is free at will he is as the wind, but this is only an image of it ,in reality look at the works of the apostles how they where moved around and see,

the spirit can also be the essence of understanding Gods will and be driven by it to accomplish it,

if no one is used i mean men ,then God may use that power spirit to act and fulfill Gods will on is own,

God can also use both.

one question,if we go to explain the spirit like doctors in science,then how did they apostles explain it to the common people of their days??

Pierre

[GeneBalthrop]

Terraricca…………..The apostles understood the Spirit as a Force that was (IN) people causing them to walk in the way of GOD, or the way of the world, depends on what force is rullling in there minds, and it can come and go. It is compared to the wind because it is a (invisible Force) as wind is , but even that force is a caused force. Hight and low barometric pressures cause the wind to move around . even so the spirit is moves around by YHVH and distributed to whomsoever He choses to give it to. There is nothing Free about the Wind nor the Spirit of GOD. It is all cause and effect. IMO

peace and love…………………………gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 05 2010,00:29)

Terraricca…………..The apostles understood the Spirit as a Force that was (IN) people causing them to walk in the way of GOD, or the way of the world, depends on what force is rullling in there minds, and it can come and go.  It is compared to the wind because it is a (invisible Force) as wind is , but even that force is a caused force. Hight and low barometric pressures cause the wind to move around . even so the spirit is moves around by YHVH and distributed to whomsoever He choses to give it to. There is nothing Free about the Wind nor the Spirit of GOD. It is all cause and effect. IMO peace and love…………………………gene

hi gene

yes you can say what you want but the truth stands;
just look in Corinth;book i and 2,it will show you that this not matches your views.

and the books of Thesal;do the same thing.

self control and all guided by free will his and was the way to obey God,any other was thrown to the outside.

Pierre

[karmarie]

Gene and all,

Spirit…..The will, intellect and emotions

“Intellect or Perception of the mind,” is too narrow for “ the eyes of your heart,”
“Heart” includes emotions as well as the rational mind.  

Eastern Orthodox (who hold the original teachings) they call it nous, though they are trinitarians, thier belief in it is slightly different.

Eastern Orthodox

The human nous in Eastern Orthodox Christianity is the “eye of the heart or soul” or the “mind of the heart” The soul of man, is created by God in His image, man's soul is intelligent and noetic. St Thalassios wrote that God created beings “with a capacity to receive the Spirit and to attain knowledge of Himself; He has brought into existence the senses and sensory perception to serve such beings”. Eastern Orthodox Christians hold that God did this by creating mankind with intelligence and noetic faculties. Angels have intelligence and nous, whereas men have reason both logos and dianoia, nous and sensory perception. This follows the idea that man is a microcosm and an expression of the whole creation or macrocosmos. The human nous was darkened after the Fall of Man (which was the result of the rebellion of reason against the nous), but after the purification (healing or correction) of the nous (achieved through ascetic practices like hesychasm), the human nous (the “eye of the heart”) will see God's uncreated Light (and feel God's uncreated love and beauty, at which point the nous will start the unceasing prayer of the heart) and become illuminated, allowing the person to become an orthodox theologian

In this belief, the soul is created in the image of God. Since God is Trinitarian, Mankind is Nous, reason both logos and dianoia and Spirit. The same is held true of the soul (or heart): it has nous, word and spirit. To understand this better first an understanding of St Gregory Palamas's teaching that man is a representation of the trinitarian mystery should be addressed. This holds that God is not meant in the sense that the Trinity should be understood anthropomorphically, but man is to be understood in a triune way. Or, that the Trinitarian God is not to be interpreted from the point of view of individual man, but man is interpreted on the basis of the Trinitarian God. And this interpretation is revelatory not merely psychological and human. This means that it is only when a person is within the revelation, as all the saints lived, that he can grasp this understanding completely (see theoria). The second presupposition is that mankind has and is composed of nous, word and spirit like the trinitarian mode of being. Man's nous, word and spirit are not hypostases or individual existences or realities, but activities or energies of the soul. Were as in the case with God or the Persons of the Holy Trinity each are indeed hypostases. So these three components of each individual man are `inseparable from one another' but they do not have a personal character” when in speaking of the being or ontology that is mankind. The nous as the eye of the soul, which some Fathers also call the heart, is the center of man and is where true (spiritual) knowledge is validated. This is seen as true knowledge which is “implanted in the nous as always co-existing with it”.

[Ed J]

Quote (karmarie @ July 05 2010,08:22)

Gene and all, Spirit…..The will, intellect and emotions

Hi Karmarie,

Well now we got a third.

A. A Free Will
B. Intellect
C. Emotions

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

Quote (karmarie @ July 05 2010,08:22)

Gene and all, Spirit…..The will, intellect and emotions “Intellect or Perception of the mind,” is too narrow for “ the eyes of your heart,” “Heart” includes emotions as well as the rational mind.   Eastern Orthodox (who hold the original teachings) they call it nous, though they are trinitarians, thier belief in it is slightly different. Eastern Orthodox The human nous in Eastern Orthodox Christianity is the “eye of the heart or soul” or the “mind of the heart” The soul of man, is created by God in His image, man's soul is intelligent and noetic. St Thalassios wrote that God created beings “with a capacity to receive the Spirit and to attain knowledge of Himself; He has brought into existence the senses and sensory perception to serve such beings”. Eastern Orthodox Christians hold that God did this by creating mankind with intelligence and noetic faculties. Angels have intelligence and nous, whereas men have reason both logos and dianoia, nous and sensory perception. This follows the idea that man is a microcosm and an expression of the whole creation or macrocosmos. The human nous was darkened after the Fall of Man (which was the result of the rebellion of reason against the nous), but after the purification (healing or correction) of the nous (achieved through ascetic practices like hesychasm), the human nous (the “eye of the heart”) will see God's uncreated Light (and feel God's uncreated love and beauty, at which point the nous will start the unceasing prayer of the heart) and become illuminated, allowing the person to become an orthodox theologian In this belief, the soul is created in the image of God. Since God is Trinitarian, Mankind is Nous, reason both logos and dianoia and Spirit. The same is held true of the soul (or heart): it has nous, word and spirit. To understand this better first an understanding of St Gregory Palamas's teaching that man is a representation of the trinitarian mystery should be addressed. This holds that God is not meant in the sense that the Trinity should be understood anthropomorphically, but man is to be understood in a triune way. Or, that the Trinitarian God is not to be interpreted from the point of view of individual man, but man is interpreted on the basis of the Trinitarian God. And this interpretation is revelatory not merely psychological and human. This means that it is only when a person is within the revelation, as all the saints lived, that he can grasp this understanding completely (see theoria). The second presupposition is that mankind has and is composed of nous, word and spirit like the trinitarian mode of being. Man's nous, word and spirit are not hypostases or individual existences or realities, but activities or energies of the soul. Were as in the case with God or the Persons of the Holy Trinity each are indeed hypostases. So these three components of each individual man are `inseparable from one another' but they do not have a personal character” when in speaking of the being or ontology that is mankind. The nous as the eye of the soul, which some Fathers also call the heart, is the center of man and is where true (spiritual) knowledge is validated. This is seen as true knowledge which is “implanted in the nous as always co-existing with it”.

K

nous;stands for the word “US” in English all what your comment does is saying ;love your fellow men as yourself,

so there is you +and your companion and then there is everybody else=nous/us

Pierre

remember that strait words meaning goes to the heart,

but it takes a well educated man to take one word and make a 200page book with it.and become useless in meaning.

[karmarie]

Hi Ed and T,

Heres more on  “the eyes of the heart”

“Seen from Hebrew tradition, from Christ Himself, and from the Apostles that in the region of the physical heart there functions something that the Fathers called the nous. In other words, the Fathers took the traditional term nous, which means both intellect (dianoia) and speech or reason (logos), and gave it a different meaning. They used nous to refer to this noetic energy that functions in the heart of every spiritually healthy person……”

“The Spirit of God bears witness to our spirit, St. Paul speaks about two spirits: the Spirit of God and the human spirit. By some strange turn of events, what St. Paul meant by the human spirit later reappeared during the time of St. Makarios the Egyptian with the name nous, and only the words logos and dianoia continued to refer to mans rational ability. This is how the nous came to be identified with spirit, that is, with the heart, since according to St. Paul, the heart is the place of mans spirit…..”

“Noetic prayer is a persons inward prayer, and others around him do not hear anything…….We teach and speak by using the reason, which is the usual way that people communicate with each other. Those who have noetic prayer in their hearts do, however, communicate with one another. In other words, they have the ability to sit together, and communicate with each other noetically, without speaking. That is, they are able to communicate spiritually. Of course, this also occurs even when such people are far apart. They also have the gifts of clairvoyance and foreknowledge. Through clairvoyance, they can sense both other peoples sins and thoughts (logismoi), while foreknowledge enables them to see and talk about subjects, deeds, and events in the future. Such charismatic people really do exist. If you go to them for confession, they know everything that you have done in your life before you open your mouth to tell them.”

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/phronem….us.aspx

[terraricca]

Quote (karmarie @ July 05 2010,19:04)

Hi Ed and T, Heres more on  “the eyes of the heart” “Seen from Hebrew tradition, from Christ Himself, and from the Apostles that in the region of the physical heart there functions something that the Fathers called the nous. In other words, the Fathers took the traditional term nous, which means both intellect (dianoia) and speech or reason (logos), and gave it a different meaning. They used nous to refer to this noetic energy that functions in the heart of every spiritually healthy person……” “The Spirit of God bears witness to our spirit, St. Paul speaks about two spirits: the Spirit of God and the human spirit. By some strange turn of events, what St. Paul meant by the human spirit later reappeared during the time of St. Makarios the Egyptian with the name nous, and only the words logos and dianoia continued to refer to mans rational ability. This is how the nous came to be identified with spirit, that is, with the heart, since according to St. Paul, the heart is the place of mans spirit…..” “Noetic prayer is a persons inward prayer, and others around him do not hear anything…….We teach and speak by using the reason, which is the usual way that people communicate with each other. Those who have noetic prayer in their hearts do, however, communicate with one another. In other words, they have the ability to sit together, and communicate with each other noetically, without speaking. That is, they are able to communicate spiritually. Of course, this also occurs even when such people are far apart. They also have the gifts of clairvoyance and foreknowledge. Through clairvoyance, they can sense both other peoples sins and thoughts (logismoi), while foreknowledge enables them to see and talk about subjects, deeds, and events in the future. Such charismatic people really do exist. If you go to them for confession, they know everything that you have done in your life before you open your mouth to tell them.” http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/phronem….us.aspx

K

you do not show much scriptures there,

i never could understand charismatism i only can love one God,

and so do not worship men.
tradition any of them are from men

Pierre

[Arnold]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 30 2010,03:06)

To All……………..I believe that we should all go back to first base Here and go from there and try to come to a simple conclusion of basic things, our problems seem to come from spinning of into all kinds of conclusions we make by our preconceive ideas and maybe not looking at some simple word in the right way.  This causes speculations on our part (that includes me also). So why not just take one Big word used in scripture and all of us come to a consensus on it. For example the Word SPIRIT what is Spirit?, Some think it's a (BEING) of some kind, others like me think it is a (INTELLECT) producing our thoughts. Some think it is both But i truly believe if we could get this thing clear in our minds it would clear up so many scriptures it would be amazing.  I have found that looking at Spirit as (INTELLECT) fits most all scriptures relating to Spirit. I look at Spirit, (Metaphoric speaking), as this big pool of water  and we are vessels that contain some of that water in us some more then others this enables us to realize things and gives us understandings. But one thing is that this “waters” is never new and it is all the same water, it's just the amount (in) a vessel that the difference,it can never be done away with , it can only  be poured back into the place where it came from.  This same water can be added to any vessel in varying amounts or subtracted until the vessel is completely empty and the vessel remains alone and corrupts.  But God can created another Vessel and add this water (spirit) back into it again  and then would be alive again as it was before the water or spirit was taken away from it. GOD himself is that WATER and Pours Himself into the vessels or they could not have any life whatsoever. God is the tree that produces Live in all thing that has life. I am interested on other opinions regarding what (SPIRIT) is in it simplest meaning. I conclude SPIRIT is INTELLECT Just that simple.I know this subject has a Thread some where , but i want us to remove all the confusion surrounding the Word Spirit, what is the most simplest understanding of it we can have. peace and love to you all………………….gene

“SPIRIT” in its simplest form means, “invisible”.
As Jesus tried to explain to Nicodemus in John 3:6; Jesus compared a “spirit” being to the “wind” and “air”, because all three are invisible, v. 8.

[GeneBalthrop]

Georg…………I agree with you, that all types of Spirits (intellects) are invisibly forces. They power our minds that in turn animates our bodies to do what they do. Spirit is the cause that effects the Physical realm of things that exist with life in them.

peace and love to you and Irene……………………gene

[karmarie]

I cant believe you all sometimes. The Orthodox have it completly right. Yet you ignore what they say because you disagree with other things they say or do. So you have to come up with your own unique versions, of everything.

Spirit is within. its the “eyes of the heart” cant you feel anything? Ok so it must be all just “intellect” mind,

Ok. Whatever?

There is the Spirit of Man and the Spirit of God, which can come upon a person and combines with our own Spirit within, Jesus had the Holy Spirit come upon him at the river Jordan. He then spoke as God. Before then he was a carpenter, but he left everything to do Gods will.

But its not just 'intellect, mind' thats too 'shallow'……IMO!

[GeneBalthrop]

Karmarie………..The spirit does do many things that is true, but we are just trying to find a simple (overall) meaning that can be used in a (general) sense . You say its not just intellect that is to shallow and you could be right. Explain you view of It to us then in more detail, try to speak from yourself not necessarily what some Orthodox religions says.

peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene

[karmarie]

Ok Gene, spirit somehow put into human words ….its that place within which feels emotion it is of the heart it can feel love it can feel pain it goes with thoughts it thinks it reasons, words, so…

How is that supposed to be put into a simple explanation , or into simple words? I dont know. I dont think you can.

I had a friend, she had spirit she could see things we couldnt, she spoke with God, communicated back and forth,  She could tell you things about yourself nobody knew, she could see things about you in the future through prayer which came true. She had such a close relationship with God that it spread out to all who she came across. She told me this,  just as the orthodox believe.

If that makes sense?

[GeneBalthrop]

Kermarie………..Your first part i do agree with the spirit does produce feeling and emotions in us through given us the intellect or knowledge that drives those emotions and feelings. But you need to be very careful about those who claim clairvoyance they can mislead you and we are told to avoid those that have familiar spirits. Be careful Kermarie. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene

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