Confusions

[GeneBalthrop]

To All……………..I believe that we should all go back to first base Here and go from there and try to come to a simple conclusion of basic things, our problems seem to come from spinning of into all kinds of conclusions we make by our preconceive ideas and maybe not looking at some simple word in the right way. This causes speculations on our part (that includes me also). So why not just take one Big word used in scripture and all of us come to a consensus on it.

For example the Word SPIRIT what is Spirit?, Some think it's a (BEING) of some kind, others like me think it is a (INTELLECT) producing our thoughts. Some think it is both But i truly believe if we could get this thing clear in our minds it would clear up so many scriptures it would be amazing. I have found that looking at Spirit as (INTELLECT) fits most all scriptures relating to Spirit. I look at Spirit, (Metaphoric speaking), as this big pool of water and we are vessels that contain some of that water in us some more then others this enables us to realize things and gives us understandings.

But one thing is that this “waters” is never new and it is all the same water, it's just the amount (in) a vessel that the difference,it can never be done away with , it can only be poured back into the place where it came from. This same water can be added to any vessel in varying amounts or subtracted until the vessel is completely empty and the vessel remains alone and corrupts. But God can created another Vessel and add this water (spirit) back into it again and then would be alive again as it was before the water or spirit was taken away from it. GOD himself is that WATER and Pours Himself into the vessels or they could not have any life whatsoever. God is the tree that produces Live in all thing that has life.

I am interested on other opinions regarding what (SPIRIT) is in it simplest meaning. I conclude SPIRIT is INTELLECT Just that simple.I know this subject has a Thread some where , but i want us to remove all the confusion surrounding the Word Spirit, what is the most simplest understanding of it we can have.

peace and love to you all………………….gene

[chosenone]

Hi Gene.
A very good question, I have not given this a lot of thought, but now that you have brought up this subject, I have pondered through my thoughts and will give my opinion.
Throughout scripture we see the term “Father, Son, and Holy Spirit”. Now is the “Holy Spirit” the same as “Spirit”? I have not made up my mind on this.
I feel that the Spirit of God is His “power” that He uses to work in us. Scipture says “all is of God”, He controls everything, Eph.1:11 says… according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,
So although I have not really given this much thought, and I'm not sure if I've seen any scripture describing this, this is what I believe at this time. I'll keep this subject in mind if I come across anything related to this subject.

God Bless, Jerry.

PS. Gene , have you ever looked at the “Concordant Publishing Concern” website? You'll find it in: “concordant.org”. I would very much appreciate your opinion on it's content, you seem to agree with much of what I do, and if you would have a look, I'd be thankfull for your opinion.

[GeneBalthrop]

Chosenone…….The way i have understood the word (HOLY) is like special, A special Spirit or intellect like the Spirit of Truth, called the earnest of GOD, This intellect is very important to a Christian because it does two things , as it says, “the Spirit (this intellect) both accuses and it defends us” it is a Godly guidance system. It raises our intellect to discern the truth from a lie, But non the less it is still Spirit or intellect that has been added to us or those who have it, and as far as power goes, it has power to cause an effect, so from that stand point it is power, That is why it says “after that you have recieved power from on high.

It definitely can through thought produce fruits or actions in our lives, all spirits do produce fruit in a persons life in fact Spirit or intellect is the motivating force in all creation. So in a sense Spirit is the power that moves all creation it is what life is. YHWH is in control of all Spirit no matter what kind it is, and as a result His is the only Almighty God or Power. I believe Spirit is much simpler a word then most think it is. Its just we have been lead to believe it is a Metaphysical thing containing both thought and a body, so we look at it like it is a Soul, when in fact it is what is (IN) a Soul. a Soul being a body + Spirit in it. I would love us all to really get this What is Spirit straight in all our minds, i truly believe it will open up much understand of scripture is we can. IMO

Jerry, i have read some of the concordant says and i do like it accuracy , but some of the wording is hard for my comprehension level at times. But what i have seen you post is accurate and lines with what i get out of the KJ to. I might investigate into it further.

Thanks for your commits, peace and love to you and yours……………………gene

[seekingtruth]

Gene,
First let me apologize for the long post but it is all one topic.

I read every verse having to do with spirit (569 of them), 90 some percent of them you could substitue some variation of intellect and it fits fine. So for the most part I agree that intellect is a big part of the term spirit, but there are verses that seem to indicate something more.

Genesis 1:2
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
Sounds like something seperate

Judges 14:6
The Spirit of the LORD came upon him in power so that he tore the lion apart with his bare hands as he might have torn a young goat. But he told neither his father nor his mother what he had done.
It seems the spirit provided more than intellect

Judges 16:25
While they were in high spirits, they shouted, “Bring out Samson to entertain us.” So they called Samson out of the prison, and he performed for them. When they stood him among the pillars,
High spirits doesn't seem to correspond to intellect as much as an attitude

1 Samuel 16:23
Whenever the spirit from God came upon Saul, David would take his harp and play. Then relief would come to Saul; he would feel better, and the evil spirit would leave him.
Also seems to include attitude

1 Samuel 25:36
When Abigail went to Nabal, he was in the house holding a banquet like that of a king. He was in high spirits and very drunk. So she told him nothing until daybreak.

1 Samuel 28:13
The king said to her, “Don't be afraid. What do you see?” The woman said, “I see a spirit coming up out of the ground.”
Does not seem to be intellect at all

Job 4:15
A spirit glided past my face, and the hair on my body stood on end.
More then just intellect

Matthew 12:43
“When an evil spirit comes out of a man, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it.
Anytime it speaks of evil spirit there seems to be more involved then just intellect

Matthew 12:45
Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that man is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked generation.”
Defenitly indicates more than intellect

Luke 8:55
Her spirit returned, and at once she stood up. Then Jesus told them to give her something to eat.

John 7:39
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified

John 16:15
All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.

Acts 7:59
While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

1 Corinthians 14:14
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
Seems to indicate the mind is not involved with spiritual activities

1 Corinthians 14:16
If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying?

1 Corinthians 15:44
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
Likened to our natural body

1 Corinthians 16:18
For they refreshed my spirit and yours also. Such men deserve recognition.

James 2:26
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead

1 Peter 3:19
through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
Could be intellects but seems to indicate they exist seperately

Revelation 21:10
And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

So while I agree that intellect covers a good part of the word spirit I believe there is more to it, but what that is, I do not know.

My opinion – Wm

[terraricca]

Quote (seekingtruth @ June 30 2010,09:29)

Gene, First let me apoligize for the long post but it is all one topic. I read every verse having to do with spirit (569 of them), 90 some percent of them you could substitue some variation of intellect and it fits fine. So for the most part I agree that intellect is a big part of the term spirit, but there are verses that seem to indicate something more. Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. Sounds like something seperate Judges 14:6 The Spirit of the LORD came upon him in power so that he tore the lion apart with his bare hands as he might have torn a young goat. But he told neither his father nor his mother what he had done. It seems the spirit provided more than intellect Judges 16:25 While they were in high spirits, they shouted, “Bring out Samson to entertain us.” So they called Samson out of the prison, and he performed for them. When they stood him among the pillars, High spirits doesn't seem to correspond to intellect as much as an attitude 1 Samuel 16:23 Whenever the spirit from God came upon Saul, David would take his harp and play. Then relief would come to Saul; he would feel better, and the evil spirit would leave him. Also seems to include attitude 1 Samuel 25:36 When Abigail went to Nabal, he was in the house holding a banquet like that of a king. He was in high spirits and very drunk. So she told him nothing until daybreak. 1 Samuel 28:13 The king said to her, “Don't be afraid. What do you see?” The woman said, “I see a spirit coming up out of the ground.” Does not seem to be intellect at all Job 4:15 A spirit glided past my face, and the hair on my body stood on end. More then just intellect Matthew 12:43 “When an evil spirit comes out of a man, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Anytime it speaks of evil spirit there seems to be more involved then just intellect Matthew 12:45 Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that man is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked generation.” Defenitly indicates more than intellect Luke 8:55 Her spirit returned, and at once she stood up. Then Jesus told them to give her something to eat. John 7:39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified John 16:15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you. Acts 7:59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. Seems to indicate the mind is not involved with spiritual activities 1 Corinthians 14:16 If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? 1 Corinthians 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. Likened to our natural body 1 Corinthians 16:18 For they refreshed my spirit and yours also. Such men deserve recognition. James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead 1 Peter 3:19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison Could be intellects but seems to indicate they exist seperately Revelation 21:10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. So while I agree that intellect covers a good part of the word spirit I believe there is more to it, but what that is, I do not know. My opinion – Wm

sT

you should try to use those words;power,will,understanding.

all three of those words are related to God

just see were they fit best

Pierre

[Ed J]

Hi Gene,

So spirit is intellect and satan doesn't exist;
is there anything else you want us to know?

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[NickHassan]

Hi ED,
Confusion still rules here.
Amazing how men would dare to add ther doctrines to God's

[karmarie]

Hi Gene and all,

Spirit = intellect, maybe it involves it but intellect alone,,, no.  Thoughts, actions, emotion, love, compassion is a big part, wisdom, things from the heart. God desires those who worship him in Spirit and in truth. This involves mainly feeling from the heart, from within.

————————–

Something I learnt from the sheppard of hermas….

Spirit is something higher than ourselves, it can be good or bad. But everyone has either one, or the other, or maybe both, battling within the person.

The bad spirit causes one to be lost, confused, angry, selfish, never satisfied, ungratefull, sad, it causes bad thoughts, bad behaviour, etc.

The good spirit is the opposite of this.

So everyone has the possibility of being filled with either the good or the bad. Theres a big difference. Knowing the difference is important, if you have the good spirit, and something creeps in 'unawares'  such as frustration at something thats happened in ones life, it can grow to involve other things and can get to the point where the good spirit cant dwell with the bad (theres a battle going on) so it (the good Spirit) eventually departs.

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick……….I got news for you it alway did exist here, and you might be the biggest contributor of the confusion as anyone.

So if you know what spirit is Please tell us “O” wise one.

[GeneBalthrop]

Karmarie………….So what would be you (simplest) explanation of what spirit is. This is what I am trying to get at, not all kinds of vague definitions , I still believe what you have brought up (intellects) fit the picture. Remember all action is the product of thoughts and thoughts are the product of ones intellects. Right? So if we had to come up with a simple one sentence to describe what (ALL) Spirit in general is what would we say. I am not saying that my definition is the only right one, that is the point of this Thread to try to get a con-sense from all and maybe clear up some things, and help us all. IMO

peace and love to you and yours………………………gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2010,09:44)

Hi Gene, So spirit is intellect and satan doesn't exist; is there anything else you want us to know? God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

ED J……….I started this thread to see what everyone thinks Spirit (IS), not to start some arguments with YOU. I expressed my opinion based on my knowledge of scripture. If you have nothing to offer like your friend Nick, maybe it would be best to just butt out right?

peace and love…………………gene

[karmarie]

Hi. A friend once said she believes it involves 2 things, the mind and the heart. They are connected. So Spirit would involve these. Thoughts and feelings. But as we are in a body it also includes actions? Just a thought, but have to go.

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 30 2010,13:33)

Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2010,09:44) Hi Gene, So spirit is intellect and satan doesn't exist; is there anything else you want us to know? God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org ED J……….I started this thread to see what everyone thinks Spirit (IS), not to start some arguments with YOU. I expressed my opinion based on my knowledge of scripture. If you have nothing to offer like your friend Nick, maybe it would be best to just butt out right? peace and love…………………gene

Hi Gene,

On another thread me and Kerwin were discussing what Jesus meant saying to deny themselves.

I believe it is the 'ego' that needs to go and Kerwin says the spirit.
The 'intellect' as you put it bears a closer resemblance to the 'ego',
the very thing that needs to be crucified; rather than the Spirit. (Rom.8:16)

Based on your derogatory slanderously sounding comments, perhaps you have yet to crucify yours?

Spirit is God given, something that makes us all as individuals unique and pleasurable to God. (Rev.4:11)
So God would not want us to loose something as precious as our own Spirit. (John 17:3)
So our Spirit could be described as our resolve or our will as in our “Free Will”.
So I will freely conclude that the best description of Spirit is…

                        “A Free Will” = “Spirit”                

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (seekingtruth @ June 30 2010,09:29)

Gene, First let me apologize for the long post but it is all one topic. I read every verse having to do with spirit (569 of them), 90 some percent of them you could substitue some variation of intellect and it fits fine. So for the most part I agree that intellect is a big part of the term spirit, but there are verses that seem to indicate something more. Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. Sounds like something seperate Judges 14:6 The Spirit of the LORD came upon him in power so that he tore the lion apart with his bare hands as he might have torn a young goat. But he told neither his father nor his mother what he had done. It seems the spirit provided more than intellect Judges 16:25 While they were in high spirits, they shouted, “Bring out Samson to entertain us.” So they called Samson out of the prison, and he performed for them. When they stood him among the pillars, High spirits doesn't seem to correspond to intellect as much as an attitude 1 Samuel 16:23 Whenever the spirit from God came upon Saul, David would take his harp and play. Then relief would come to Saul; he would feel better, and the evil spirit would leave him. Also seems to include attitude 1 Samuel 25:36 When Abigail went to Nabal, he was in the house holding a banquet like that of a king. He was in high spirits and very drunk. So she told him nothing until daybreak. 1 Samuel 28:13 The king said to her, “Don't be afraid. What do you see?” The woman said, “I see a spirit coming up out of the ground.” Does not seem to be intellect at all Job 4:15 A spirit glided past my face, and the hair on my body stood on end. More then just intellect Matthew 12:43 “When an evil spirit comes out of a man, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Anytime it speaks of evil spirit there seems to be more involved then just intellect Matthew 12:45 Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that man is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked generation.” Defenitly indicates more than intellect Luke 8:55 Her spirit returned, and at once she stood up. Then Jesus told them to give her something to eat. John 7:39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified John 16:15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you. Acts 7:59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. Seems to indicate the mind is not involved with spiritual activities 1 Corinthians 14:16 If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? 1 Corinthians 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. Likened to our natural body 1 Corinthians 16:18 For they refreshed my spirit and yours also. Such men deserve recognition. James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead 1 Peter 3:19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison Could be intellects but seems to indicate they exist seperately Revelation 21:10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. So while I agree that intellect covers a good part of the word spirit I believe there is more to it, but what that is, I do not know. My opinion – Wm

seekingtruth………..Good post brother, that is exactly what i want to get at here, Perhaps we need to discuss each of the scriptures you brought out brother.

First the genesis Scripture where it say that the Spirit was hovering over the waters> That to me was the Elohim or powers we called GOD. This Power is controlled by the LORD or YHWH and these Spirits are the eyes Or Intellects connected with Powers and compose what we call GOD. I believe there are Seven Spirit (intellects) of GOD and these seven Spirits make up ONE GOD or Power and they go two and fro through out the whole earth.

Judges 14:6 does Show Spirit came upon Him with Power but The Spirit (INTELLECT) of GOD is connected with Power because remember all intellect can only do something if it is connected with Power. Jesus now has the Seven Spirits of GOD with Powers a;so and He shall rule with it. The word Intellect as Spirit does not separate it from powers. Now consider what Jesus said about the unclean Spirit (leaving) a man it is then powerless in the man because it left Him right, but It can return back with More and its power will control the mans life and the last state is worse it says then the first state of the man. Why is that because He recieved into Him more unclean spirit, and ther was power with it , because it controlled the man s Mind. Even so in Judges 14:6 The spirit of the Lord does have power. But that does not mean it is not Intellect IMO.

remember we are looking for the most simplest word to describe Spirit.

When the Evil Spirit came upon Saul it did certainly effect his thinking or his thoughts , but that only backs up the idea that Spirit in its simplest form would mean (INTELLECT) that is in a person.

1 Samuel 16:23……Nabal, was drunk and his mind and therefore his Intellect was being effected . But this still only prove my point that Spirit is tied to our thought or Intellects.

John 16:15…….> All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from mine and (now notice) make it (KNOWN) to you. This is in our intellects of our mind that is where something is made Know to Us. IMO

Acts 7:59 If God recieved our Spirit back to him that is our Mind and Intellect. Everything else is corrupted in the grave.

!cor 14:14 Here Paul was talking about speaking in and unknown tongue saying that it did not pass and Intellect to anyone except the one talking , But if not interpreted it was no good to anyone except the person speaking in it. It need to be interpreted in order to edify the rest , Why because because a unknown does not communicate Intellect to people unless some interprets, But the whole thin is about Knowledge or Intellect anyway being passed on right.

1 cor 15:44 it (our bodies) is sown a natural body, it (our bodies) is raised a Spiritual Body , If there is a natural body there is also a spiritual (BODY) Yes Spirit does have power but it still is operating (IN) a Body of some kind. This new body is not a Spirit body it is a Body sustained by Spirit, not by flesh and blood as a natural body is. IMO

James 2:26 …> indeed the body without the Intellect in it is indeed dead

Revelations 21:10……> that was in Johns mind He was being Shown to Him through his mind or intellect about the future.

Think about this Seeking truth and tell me what you think brother,

I am looking for the most simplest explanation for the Word Spirit we can possibly come to understand.

preace and love to you and yours………………gene

[kerwin]

To all,

I have my opinion on what the spirit is but my idea on the matter is not fully formed and so in a sense flawed.  I believe that since one lives according to the ways of the spirit is guide of their being or the equivilent of a steering system in an automobile.

The spirit of God is somewhat different and according to at least some Jewish tenets is a created being created on the first day of creation.  In the old testiment it is often refered to as feminime but the new testiment treats it different.  That may be due to the nuances of different languages.

The spirit of God is among other things the power of God in action.

Here is a source that discusses Jewish beliefs including those expressed in the New Testiment and the Jewish Apocrypha.  I am not stating any of these are true as you should test the spirit of anything you hear.  I believe they are worth considering and testing while being guided by the spirit of God.

Your fellow student,

Kerwin

[GeneBalthrop]

Kerwin………Thanks this is what i am hoping this thread will help us accomplish to gain a better understanding of what spirit is in a general and over all way. Because i believe not understand it has lead to much confusions and misunderstanding of bible students. Is spirit a (BEING) like Some think the WORD Satan means or is it an Intellect of some kind, that is transmitted through language , words, pictures etc. or is it both?.

Most here know i believe it is intellect the driving force in all creation place there by God and is in all things that has life. I use the word Intellect because it best describes Intelligence that i believe exists in all thing having life in them. If we were to determine that Spirit does not have to have a body to exist and be transited and is indeed Knowledge or intellects, then we can conclude many things like is there a (SATAN) Being or is it just and adversarial Spirit or intellect working in the mind of a person, which is what i believe, that is transmitted by thoughts from one person to another, or is there a separate entity out there going around jumping in and out of people taking them over, leaving them powerless to do anything about it. I really believe a lot of confusions regarding many scriptures could be cleared up by better understanding what spirit really is. IMO

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 01 2010,00:25)

Kerwin………Thanks this is what i am hoping this thread will help us accomplish to gain a better understanding of what spirit is in a general and over all way.  Because i believe not understand it has lead to much confusions and misunderstanding of bible students. Is spirit a (BEING) like Some think the WORD Satan means or is it an Intellect of some kind, that is transmitted through language , words, pictures etc. or is it both?. Most here know i believe it is intellect the driving force in all creation place there by God and is in all things that has life. I use the word Intellect because it best describes Intelligence that i believe exists in all thing having life in them.  If we were to determine that Spirit does not have to have a body to exist and be transited and is indeed Knowledge or intellects, then we can conclude many things like is there a (SATAN) Being or is it just and adversarial Spirit or intellect working in the mind of a person, which is what i believe, that is transmitted by thoughts from one person to another, or is there a separate entity out there going around jumping in and out of people taking them over, leaving them powerless to do anything about it. I really believe a lot of confusions regarding many scriptures could be cleared up by better understanding what spirit really is. IMO

gene

how can you understand,you only see your own way,and that s the way you feel it should go,

how many times we have discussed freewill,intellect,and the 7spirits what you interpreted as being Gods in seven pieces,

you are melted in those views and try by all means to convince all other to those ideas of yours,that is your main purpose in all you post,

i call that self centered.oriented……,and is not looking for truth of the knowledge of God.

Pierre

[GeneBalthrop]

Terriaricca…..> You are doing exactly what you are accusing me of, wouldn't it be better if you just stayed out of this and let us all discuss our understanding of what Spirit is. You own trash mouth should be you main concern , and i am not forcing anyone to see it may way why do you think i ask for this discussion, Try to get rid of you accusing spirit (intellect) would be a good start for you. Either add to the discussion or get out of it. IMO

Peace and love………………………gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Seeking truth……….Have you considered what i posted in reply to your brother, Something i see we do agree on and that is the Spirit is connected with Powers. And these spirit powers do effect every thing that exists. Kerwin thoughts on the spirit being a guidance is also right i believe. “For the Spirit (BOTH) accuses us and defends Us, I believe when a person receives the Spirit of Truth into him He is given a mental intellect to discern the truth from a Lie. and This is indeed a guidance system in Us. I would like to see any commits on if Spirit can correctly be compared to the metaphor i used of a Lake of Water and all life receives from that source into them and that this life never dies but returns back to its source when the physical dies.

thanks you all for you inputs i appreciate them brothers and sisters………………………..gene

[terraricca]

all

this is a remake with the same intent,and will end as all the others topics with ;spirit' the question is deceit,

look at the other topic answers.

Pierre

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