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Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 16 2008,12:32) Quote (Not3in1 @ Dec. 16 2008,11:16) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 16 2008,11:08) Why couldn't the Holy Spirit produce in Mary a human sperm to fertilize Mary's egg? This would not make him half divine half human, but simply human.
Why not just a regular sperm?My answer: because that wouldn't make Jesus God's Son. It would make Jesus some random, human son.
Mandy,There is prophecy in the OT that limits the birth of the Messiah to a particular line, maybe someone can give us those prophecies??
I haven't time to search at the moment.
You're right. Depending on which line you follow….Mary qualifies.Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 16 2008,12:26) What I am thinking of is there is no direct prophecy for a virgin birth
There is no direct prophecy for the second coming of Christ either…..No where does it explain that Jesus wouldn't accomplish everything the Messiah was predicted to accomplish – on the first trip. There's nothing said about a clean-up sweep the second time around. Do you know of any?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2008,15:05) Hi mk,
If the first Adam was not why must the second Adam be?
I'm going to sound like a broken record again, but feel it's important to share for Meerkat's consideration.Adam will need to be adopted (along with the rest of us) into his sonship with God.
Jesus belonged at birth.
Hmmmm
Quote (Not3in1 @ Dec. 15 2008,22:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2008,15:05) Hi mk,
If the first Adam was not why must the second Adam be?
I'm going to sound like a broken record again, but feel it's important to share for Meerkat's consideration.Adam will need to be adopted (along with the rest of us) into his sonship with God.
Jesus belonged at birth.
Hmmmm
You can say that Jesus belonged as the son of God from his birth, but it is ONLY because of the predestination of which God had for him from the beginning, which WAS TO CREATE A RIGHTEOUS HUMAN BEING, (an example for the rest of mankind to follow)! NOT because of him having some sort of different genetics as we do, and certainly not because he was part God part human.Jesus was predestined from the beginning, therefore it would be under God's Will for the conception to take place, so I see it as either He had complete control over the minds of Mary and Joseph to bring them together, or He used the power of the Holy Spirit to cause the conception.
The problem I see meerkat, is in many scriptures that discuss the Son of God, it is referring to Jesus as being such from his birth, not from his resurrection.
Jesus is the son of God from his birth because God has foreknowledge and knew His work in Jesus before it occurred.
Jesus is the Son of God because God knew from his birth that he would follow His will.
Too Many Scriptures show Jesus being referred to as the Son of God before his resurrection.
Mt 4:3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
Mt 4:6 If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “'He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'”
Mt 8:29 “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”
Mt 14:33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
Mt 16:16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Mt 26:63 But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.”
Mt 27:40 and saying, “You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!”
Mt 27:43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, 'I am the Son of God.'”
Mt 27:54 When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, “Surely he was the Son of God!”
Mr 1:1 The beginning of the gospel about Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
Mr 3:11 Whenever the evil spirits saw him, they fell down before him and cried out, “You are the Son of God.”
Mr 5:7 He shouted at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? Swear to God that you won't torture me!”
Mr 15:39 And when the centurion, who stood there in front of Jesus, heard his cry and saw how he died, he said, “Surely this man was the Son of God!”
Lu 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,
Lu 1:35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.
Lu 3:2 during the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John son of Zechariah in the desert.
Lu 3:38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
Lu 4:3 The devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread.”
Lu 4:9 The devil led him to Jerusalem and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down from here.
Lu 4:41 Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ
Lu 8:28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don't torture me!”
Lu 12:8 “I tell you, whoever acknowledges me before men, the Son of Man will also acknowledge him before the angels of God.
Lu 22:69 But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God.”
Lu 22:70 They all asked, “Are you then the Son of God?” He replied, “You are right in saying I am.”
Joh 1:34 I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.”
Joh 1:49 Then Nathanael declared, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel.”
Joh 1:51 He then added, “I tell you the truth, you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
Joh 5:25 I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.
Joh 6:27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”
Joh 10:36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?
Joh 11:27 “Yes, Lord,” she told him, “I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who was to come into the world.”
Joh 13:31 When he was gone, Jesus said, “Now is the Son of Man glorified and God is glorified in him.
Joh 19:7 The Jews insisted, “We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God.”
Joh 20:31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Yes, first the natural and then the spiritual. Jesus was born a natural human being able to die and became upon his resurrection an eternal man (spiritual man).
Everything is under God's will, as far as prophecy of a virgin birth, I personal can't stop reflecting on Genesis and the terminology of the woman's seed. Jesus crushed the head of the serpent, he destroyed the power of the devil, Jesus is the woman's seed, of which is of the seed of David.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 15 2008,23:30) Hi Jodi,
Did Jesus not have to overcome?
Yes of course Jesus had to overcome, but God knew ahead of time that he would.Hi Jodi,
Was Jesus sort of a perfect godman.
Can we follow such a perfect one with a head start?
It would be easier to follow an overcomer in God's anointingQuote (Jodi @ Dec. 16 2008,18:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 15 2008,23:30) Hi Jodi,
Did Jesus not have to overcome?
Yes of course Jesus had to overcome, but God knew ahead of time that he would.
Hi Jodi,
I agree.For what it's worth:
I believe other sons of God were predestined as well: Adam, Moses, Abe, Solomon….so on. However none of these predestined sons of God received a host of angels to sing at their birth. No royalty followed a star to lay gifts at their feet. These sons of God were not called, King of Kings and Lord of Lords at their birth!
Jesus was born royalty because he was God's boy. No other son of God can claim this right.
Even Moses is a servant over God's house – but Jesus is a SON over God's house.There is a difference for those who will see it.
I'm hitting the hay folks. Sweet dreams all,
MandyHi not3,
He had to learn
painfullyHeb12
2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.3For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
4Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
5And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2008,18:47) Hi Jodi,
Was Jesus sort of a perfect godman.
Can we follow such a perfect one with a head start?
It would be easier to follow an overcomer in God's anointing
This caught my eye –
You're not being completely honest here about the Jesus you serve, Nick.Your boy had a head start alright….he was in heaven before he was born! If that isn't a head start, what would you call that?
OK, now off to bed!
Quote (Not3in1 @ Dec. 15 2008,23:16) Was not Adam predestined from the beginning?
How do we know?
Yes I believe that you could say that Adam was also predestined, predestined to fail.Humans have to be shown certain truths, everything is do to circumstance and the accumulation of knowledge. Jesus accepted God's will because God was able to prove to Jesus man's failures, Adam didn't have that sort of proof.
Hi Sis Jodi,
Lot of information on 'son of God'. But God declares him as His beloved son only at Jordan on his Baptism and after receiving the anointing of the Holy Spirit. Can we not assume that Jesus became Messiah or Son of God literally at Jordan ? Yes I agree with you on Jesus being called as son of God at his birth by angels. But I believe God's relationship with Jesus as Father is not in flesh and blood but in Spirit and by filling him with His Spirit without measure(fully).Hope you will appreciate these lines
Thanks and love to you
AdamMandy
How about this?
Rom 1:4And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
It says his resurrection was when he was declared Son of God.
declared =
G3724
ὁρίζω
horizō
hor-id'-zo
From G3725; to mark out or bound (“horizon”), that is, (figuratively) to appoint, decree, specify: – declare, determine, limit, ordain.What is flesh is flesh – what is spirit is spirit
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