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Quote (Jodi @ Oct. 21 2007,11:37) Molly Sue is doing great. At her two week check up she had already gained a pound! She is starting to eat more less often, which means more sleep for me at night! We have been calling her our Molly Tamale, and when she gets mad, we of course call her our Hot Tamale! 
You must missunderstand!!!!!! That little baby doesn't get mad!! She just wants to know WHY!
Hot Tamale
That's cute!! 
And so is she!!How's this for cute. Elijah – 8 months.
The main reason I get no sleep and spend much less time on Heaven.Net these days…
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 21 2007,14:17) How's this for cute. Elijah – 8 months. The main reason I get no sleep and spend much less time on Heaven.Net these days…
Hey may be Elijah and Molly sue will get together.As my mother use to say All babies are cute if only they could stay babies. Of course she was speaking about me
Hi Jodi
(Part 1)
++”People who believe in the God of the bible, which every Christian has their own unique view or understanding of who He is, are obvious believers in ID.
IDers believe in evolution by natural selection. Do you?
++”Personally, in my opinion people who think such complex systems such as DNA can just poof into existence by accident ARE the TRUE believers of FANTASY and MAGIC.
That’s exactly the point I was making! It is fantasy to have complex, functional molecules come into existence by magic, such as happens in creation myths. Slow change by mutation and selection is the way it happened.
++”What part of my statement was confusing Stuart? We are made up of the same chemical elements found in dirt. If an Intelligent Designer can take the elements found in dirt and reconfigure them to make a human, then He can certainly reconfigerate elements in Mary to make a sperm.
My point is, you have gone out of your way to give a plausible scientific account of the insemination of Mary, when you happily believe that a man was made from dirt, with no plausible mechanism at all.
You are making extraordinary and ludicrous claims and not giving the slightest explanation of how it was made to come about. I could make up equally ridiculous things and claim that I know them by personal revelation. We need an adjudicator for such claims. It is called the scientific method. Science rudely says put up or shut up.Stuart
Hi again Jodi
(Part 2)
++”You said I should not have bothered with the quote of Einstein because I don’t properly understand his use of the word religion. I’m curious Stu have you ever read this quote by Einstein? “My religion consists of a humble admiration of the unlimitable superior who reveals Himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God.”
The following gives you an idea of Einstein’s views on “god”:
http://www.einsteinandreligion.com/sciencereligious.htmlThis does not indicate belief in a personal god. Einstein hated the way atheists used him as a poster boy for non-belief, but that does not mean he was a religious person in the sense seen here. Spinoza’s god is closest to Einsteins. It is a kind of toothless deism, at best. Most well-known atheists share Einsteins “religious” views. In any case, one man’s views are irrelevant. Benny Hinn could renounce his christian beliefs tomorrow, but that would not make the bible’s claims any less or more likely.
++”In my opinion Stuart, macroevolutionists are the biggest abusers of science. This thread is not about evolution verses creation however, it’s about Creationists who are intrigued with the miracle birth of Jesus, so your comments are nil and void!
Your use of the word macroevolutionist gives away quite a bit about the limits of your understanding of biology. My comments may be nil and void if any kind of made-up magic is taken as truth. I care about the truth though, and I challenge you to put up one single fact that disproves any of the established theories of science. Virgin birth is a myth common to many religions. There are much more likely explanations for Mary’s pregnancy that do not require magic. To plead for magic is to throw science out the window, yet you seem to value the credibility that science has. I think those posting here need to decide whether science has anything useful to say on this subject, or else just stick to the fantasy discussions.
More than that, I would like you to tell me how the Theory of God Making Everything and Himself goes, complete with the kinds of mechanisms that science provides for its theories. There are threads in Creation & Science where that would be appropriate.
Stuart
I am praying and contemplating both Jodi's and Stu's posts here. I believe, as a member said recently, “.,…there is something to this that we are not yet getting……” and I believe this is true. I believe we have skated around the obvious and created (using our own intellect) a substitute for the truth.
God had a Son. An “only” Son. This Son was conceived. This is the truth that the gospel's teach us. All else is folly. More to come.
Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 20 2007,01:02) Please answer this question Mandy. Because you say Jesus was God in flesh also; When Jesus died did that God part in Jesus' flesh die?
Given what you are saying I believe it is a fair question.
Hi brother,This is certainly a fair question, and I will try to answer it as best that I can.
Ken, I've been trying to show you that you cannot seperate the God “part” from the Mary “part” anymore than you can do that with your own children! It cannot be done. Let's say your boy's name is Mike. Mike dies – which part of him died? The part that is Ken, or the part that is your wife? Do you see what you are asking of Jesus (which part of him died?), you cannot do it anymore than you can of your own flesh-and-blood son. *This is the part that is missing in understanding.*
Jesus is God's literal, biological Son. When he died, there wasn't “God” and “Mary” living side-by-side in him, so that one could die while the other remained living. No! Jesus was a combination of the two. He was neither God, nor Mary, but Jesus, himself. When he died, Jesus, the Son of God died. This is what the scriptures teach us. There is no mystery around this.
God cannot die. God is not a man. God will not share his glory with another. This is why the incarnation of God is false. Ken, I believe you are wondering if Jesus died and he is the Son of God, did God die too? The answer is that Jesus is not God in the flesh. Jesus is God's son in the flesh. As his son, he can die. If he was God, then of course you have a problem as the Trinitarians have discovered. Scripture plainly teaches that God cannot die.
If you really want to look into this matter of Jesus being God's Son and God cannot die…..remember that Jesus did not stay in the grave, but was raised to life. Jesus is also a *firstfruit* not just in death, as some teach, but also in birth. For he is the *firstfruit* over creation as well as death. But this is something else to look into.
***When we change the meaning of what a “Son” truly is…..this is when we miss the truth of the gospels. The truth, I believe, of the entire NT regarding the Son of God.***
Mandy,
Do you think it was necessary for God to make Jesus part Himself in order for him to be perfect?Mandy, where in the bible does it say that Jesus was only part human?
Wouldn't part human not really be human at all, but something entirely different? Or would you classify Jesus as a Wuzzle from the land of Wuz!
Sorry all,
I just came back to the computer. I started to modify my past post hours ago….I got called away from the computer and just now posted the modified version.
We are also getting ready to harvest our pumpkins and so I must get going. I will be back later to check in. Thanks brother's and sister's.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 22 2007,05:54) Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 20 2007,01:02) Please answer this question Mandy. Because you say Jesus was God in flesh also; When Jesus died did that God part in Jesus' flesh die?
Given what you are saying I believe it is a fair question.
Hi brother,This is certainly a fair question, and I will try to answer it as best that I can.
Ken, I've been trying to show you that you cannot seperate the God “part” from the Mary “part” anymore than you can do that with your own children! It cannot be done. Let's say your boy's name is Mike. Mike dies – which part of him died? The part that is Ken, or the part that is your wife? Do you see what you are asking of Jesus (which part of him died?), you cannot do it anymore than you can of your own flesh-and-blood son. *This is the part that is missing in understanding.*
Jesus is God's literal, biological Son. When he died, there wasn't “God” and “Mary” living side-by-side in him, so that one could die while the other remained living. No! Jesus was a combination of the two. He was neither God, nor Mary, but Jesus, himself. When he died, Jesus, the Son of God died. This is what the scriptures teach us. There is no mystery around this.
God cannot die. God is not a man. God will not share his glory with another. This is why the incarnation of God is false. Ken, I believe you are wondering if Jesus died and he is the Son of God, did God die too? The answer is that Jesus is not God in the flesh. Jesus is God's son in the flesh. As his son, he can die. If he was God, then of course you have a problem as the Trinitarians have discovered. Scripture plainly teaches that God cannot die.
If you really want to look into this matter of Jesus being God's Son and God cannot die…..remember that Jesus did not stay in the grave, but was raised to life. Jesus is also a *firstfruit* not just in death, as some teach, but also in birth. For he is the *firstfruit* over creation as well as death. But this is something else to look into.
***When we change the meaning of what a “Son” truly is…..this is when we miss the truth of the gospels. The truth, I believe, of the entire NT regarding the Son of God.***
Sis,I'm trying to explain that if Jesus were God's biological Son then He certainly had inherited Something from His Father. His eyes…nose…something.
If Jesus was a supernatural…And Being A Biological Son Of God….Then He Had to Have been A “Supernatural” Person.
Being a supernatural person and tempted then it would not be the same as ADAM being tempted OR us.
He used Mary the same way He used MUD. How did God create the first human? By the time God finished forming Adam from dust I can just about assure you Adam wasn't just dust BEFORE he breathed life into him. Was Adam part God?
Adam was born without sin Jesus was born without sin the same as Adam only God used Mary instead of starting with dust.
How can these things be? How can we be born again? Does being born again make any sense to the heathen?
Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of
his father David:Spiritually Jesus was God's SON but physically He was the son of David through Mary. And Jesus was his own man. He was a person, a human as we are. He had His own personality which define us all.
After His resurrection the Father called Him GOD after the God kind. But not while He was a human on earth He was the son of man and because He did not sin He was God's Son as was Adam.
FOR:
1Co 15:21 ……….by man came death, [and] by man came also the resurrection of the dead.Now having said all that!
I was the one who said that we are missing something. And we are! We don't understand these things by the flesh OR spirit. It is by faith that we accept the son of man became the Son of God.Not the Son of God became the son of man. If Jesus were any more than the first Adam then His sacrifice is NOT valid being a “supernatural” being.
If Adam would not have sinned then we would all be God's children NOW. We would not die NOR have to be resurrected.
Jesus was resurrected because He took the sins of the World and when He did….The Father could not look upon him. But being found Not guilty of sin Himself He was resurrected.Personally it matters not to me if Jesus preexisted or not. What matters is that He died for and took away the sins of the world. The witness of the Spirit gives witness to our spirit that this is True. Try explaining that to a heathen.
It IS interesting for sure. I believe Jesus was the Son of God just as we would be Sons/Daughters of God if we had not sinned.
Hi Jodi,
Quote Do you think it was necessary for God to make Jesus part Himself in order for him to be perfect?
No.Quote Mandy, where in the bible does it say that Jesus was only part human?
In the Gospels we are told that God's holy spirit helped to conceive Jesus. Joseph was not the physical father of Jesus – God Almighty was/is! You tell me sis, what do you get when you are LITERALLY fathered by God's holy spirit? A 100% human? That doesn't sound right, does it?If Jesus is 100% human……why didn't God just allow Joseph the honors? If it wasn't for a purpose that God father his own child, why not let Joseph father the boy?
Quote Wouldn't part human not really be human at all, but something entirely different? Or would you classify Jesus as a Wuzzle from the land of Wuz!
You're not the first to poke fun at me and my theory, and I'm sure you won't be the last. But I will say again, there is a reason God chose to father his own child. There is a reason why he calls Jesus his *only* Son. There is a reason why Jesus will never be adopted and everyone else will (including Adam). These reasons cannot be overlooked or tossed into the land of Wuz because they sound so basic.This is my understanding so far and I will admit that I am waiting on the LORD for more insight. After years of waiting on the LORD already for an answer, I believe I have been given the revelation that Jesus is truly God's own Son. And it is through his very own Son that he is loving and reconciling the world to himself.
Hi bro,
Quote I'm trying to explain that if Jesus were God's biological Son then He certainly had inherited Something from His Father. His eyes…nose…something. If Jesus was a supernatural…And Being A Biological Son Of God….Then He Had to Have been A “Supernatural” Person.
Being a supernatural person and tempted then it would not be the same as ADAM being tempted OR us.
God+God=God
God+Man=Divine ManJesus humbled himself and did not use his privileges as the Son of God. Therefore just as we are tempted, he was tempted. Just as we will die, he died. Just as we will be resurrected, he is already resurrected! Just as Jesus will inherit from his Father, we will also inherit.
Quote only God used Mary instead of starting with dust.
If you believe this, then please answer this – why didn't God allow Joseph to be the physical Father of Jesus?Quote Spiritually Jesus was God's SON but physically He was the son of David through Mary.
Interstingly enough, Jesus was the son of David through Joseph's line, not Mary's.Quote It IS interesting for sure. I believe Jesus was the Son of God just as we would be Sons/Daughters of God if we had not sinned.
Ken, you have had several different sentences that have made me ponder over the last month. This is one of them. It is true that if sin never entered into the world, we would all be God's children. So what is the difference now that we are awaiting our adoptions through Christ? I believe it has to do with a deeper intimacy with our Father. A deeper belonging. Better promises and covenants…..if there wasn't something wrong with the first, then second wouldn't have come. But this is something to ponder.Jodi,
I watched the Wuzzles video – too cute.
Actually you are correct, Jesus is a mixture of God and Man. What came of that union is a Divine Man – the first one of it's kind. A firstfruit, if you will. We will follow.
The disciples called Jesus a man, this is true. But they also recognized that he was not like any man they knew! He was a different kind of man. He walked on water and calmed the elements. He had food to eat that they knew nothing about. He could watch and hear the Father at work. He was God's personal representative. He was divine; he was man. He was God's Son.
I suppose that Jesus would fit in quite well in Wuzzle Land.
He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time.
The above is a quote from t8 in one of the scriptural debates with Isaiah. T8 also says that Jesus is a divine human. I'm wondering if he can elaborate here as this relates to conception? T8? Thanks.
Ok…so,
This is another one of those things…that seem to be misunderstood. Probably yet another deception of the catholic church. That spirit of anti-christ.
Trying to make JESUS out to be not of the FLESH. But a…I don't know what.
JESUS had to be of the seed of David. He was also the son of GOD. So is it possible that both of these things could have happened at the same time? Yes…with GOD all things are possible.
He was both the Son of man, and the Son of GOD. I'm not sure about the details of it all. I have reason to believe that someone might have tried to deceive us of the whole truth here. Its possible that someone trashed some of the bible at some point. Just to make the bible as a whole fit there doctrine. Who would do that? Uhm…Satan and his henchmen, or tools probably would be my guess. I'm not saying that 100% sure this is what happened …because I have no proof…but I know that it could have happened, Judging from the corrupt ways of man….look at the corrupt things that goes on now days…in the government…Man if you knew about some of the things the government was doing and had done…you'd probably completely flip out.I know that the truth is GOING to come out. GOD will make a way for it too. Satan is going to be defeated and will not be able to deceive anyone or anything ever again.
I'd say the catholic church probably had something to do with the Virgin Birth stories…simply because it best suits their belief of Mary being the Mother of GOD….which is like one of the biggest catholic beliefs around. Anyone that don't know anything about religion or anything knows that the catholics think Mary is the mother of GOD and they pray to Mary.
Lets see what alls been corrupted by the catholic church:
1.) Baptism
2.) Jesus' very existence (Birth)
3.) The Godhead
4.) Gods dayAnd thats just to name a few. I don't even know everything. But these are some of the main things that keep being brought up.
So, yes I think the bible was translated in a roman catholic frame set of mind with their belief in mind and that they very well conveniently lost some of the pages or scripture. I also believe that the catholic church is a tool of Satan. And, I put all my FAITH in JESUS. And, I have faith that I'll be shown the true way.
My GOD knows where I am…he knows where I'm at and will not let me be deceived.
++”I have reason to believe that someone might have tried to deceive us of the whole truth here. Its possible that someone trashed some of the bible at some point. Just to make the bible as a whole fit there doctrine. Who would do that?
Here are four names that spring to mind: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
++”I'd say the catholic church probably had something to do with the Virgin Birth stories…simply because it best suits their belief of Mary being the Mother of GOD….which is like one of the biggest catholic beliefs around. Anyone that don't know anything about religion or anything knows that the catholics think Mary is the mother of GOD and they pray to Mary.
AT LAST! Someone has the guts to make sense in this thread!
I might even manage a heathenly “Hallelujah”!Stuart
Here's the thing brother's, if the bible is trashed, what are you both doing here where the bible is believed and discussed? No, I believe that you both are here because you believe there is *some* truth surrounding the words printed between Genesis and Revelation. Otherwise, you both are fools for wasting your time here, right? Why not take up golf instead?
I don't believe the bible is wrong…I just believe that some particular church …probably had a large part in the translation of it. In the process its very possible they threw out some stuff maybe a few pages…maybe a whole book or two, or maybe only a few verses. Also, it is very likely they added a few pages, a book or two, or maybe only a few verses. It's pretty apparent that something got tampered with somewhere along the lines.
Cause no one can agree upon anything. Now who would do such a thing? you say?
Well…I can tell you that GOD did not do it:
1 Cor 14:33
For God is not [the author] of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.Satan is the deceiver here its likely he gave power to the Catholic church to do all these things:
Revelation 13 (King James Version)
1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
But I'm really just guessing as well. Much like a lot of other people are. But I do know that My FAITH is put in the LORD JESUS CHRIST that came in the FLESH. And what ever happens , the gates shall not prevail against that ROCK.
I'm quite sure a good deal of the bible is the truth. But the truth has been tampered with I believe. If GOD did not know that this was going to happen why did he have this written in his book?:
Revelation 22 (King James Version)
18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
This is yet another prophecy that has come true, from the bible.
Quote (Samuel @ Oct. 23 2007,04:55) This is yet another prophecy that has come true, from the bible.
You do have a point here. God probably knew that human pride would factor in somewhere (as it always does). I also believe that the bible we currently hold has some flaws. But I'm not entirely sure how I feel about that.1 John 5:7 KJV is a good example of such “flaws” in translation.
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